Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: JmJ2cents on February 20, 2019, 08:52:02 PM

Title: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: JmJ2cents on February 20, 2019, 08:52:02 PM
 :applause:

Talk about courage!
The Kolbe Center (sponsored by the Resistance faithful and “Mr. G” of Cathinfo in particular) is taking the battle for the faith right into the heart of occupied St. Mary’s, KS to give two days of conferences about the errors of Fr. Robinson’s modernist book.
Now that’s the kind of Resistance we have been waiting for!
I copied/pasted this from CI (and I will be there as well):
Kolbe Center for Creation will have seminar in Saint Mary’s, Kansas:
March 22: 6:30 PM to 8:00 PM
March 23: 10 AM to 5 PM
at the Armory building in St. Marys, KS
Admission free, but donations suggested (to help cover costs)
A detailed scheduled will be available soon.

Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: klasG4e on February 20, 2019, 09:45:10 PM
(https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=c2c966c338&attid=0.1&permmsgid=msg-a:r838388769414939600&th=1690e21c7b9b2fe6&view=fimg&sz=s0-l75-ft&attbid=ANGjdJ_o4C-iAA4L_XE32BTDlu8c8gαyVk9oDhL2sxnGRlBrHyoWnsmeeweHAAn5jX3lx1WgmblfO5ocEB7jcMjGxhtsyGz7yptpn_srk7pInLlVm3_H10NcNKeCF4E&disp=emb&realattid=ii_jse2t5uo0)


VS.

(https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/be041786-0638-4702-8262-80efb99dfec3/67518c9f-ac7b-4cad-90c4-0b60a41ed6b6.jpg/:/rs=h:500,cg:true,m)


Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: Banezian on February 20, 2019, 11:31:58 PM
The Kolbe Center is ridiculous 
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: apollo on February 21, 2019, 12:28:46 AM
Two links that make the Kolbe Center look not-so-good ...

https://www.geocentrismdebunked.org/st-maximilian-kolbe-geocentrist/ (https://www.geocentrismdebunked.org/st-maximilian-kolbe-geocentrist/)
 (https://therealistguide.com/blog/f/st-maximilian-kolbe%E2%80%99s-disagreement-with-the-kolbe-center)
https://therealistguide.com/blog/f/st-maximilian-kolbe%E2%80%99s-disagreement-with-the-kolbe-center (https://therealistguide.com/blog/f/st-maximilian-kolbe%E2%80%99s-disagreement-with-the-kolbe-center)
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: Incredulous on February 21, 2019, 12:42:24 AM
Two links that make the Kolbe Center look not-so-good ...

https://www.geocentrismdebunked.org/st-maximilian-kolbe-geocentrist/ (https://www.geocentrismdebunked.org/st-maximilian-kolbe-geocentrist/)
 (https://therealistguide.com/blog/f/st-maximilian-kolbe%E2%80%99s-disagreement-with-the-kolbe-center)
https://therealistguide.com/blog/f/st-maximilian-kolbe%E2%80%99s-disagreement-with-the-kolbe-center (https://therealistguide.com/blog/f/st-maximilian-kolbe%E2%80%99s-disagreement-with-the-kolbe-center)
Both site authored by Fr. Robinson? :jester:
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: Incredulous on February 21, 2019, 12:43:22 AM
The Kolbe Center is ridiculous

And you're a ridiculous narcissistic punk :jumping2:
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: Banezian on February 21, 2019, 01:06:32 AM
Two links that make the Kolbe Center look not-so-good ...

https://www.geocentrismdebunked.org/st-maximilian-kolbe-geocentrist/ (https://www.geocentrismdebunked.org/st-maximilian-kolbe-geocentrist/)
 (https://therealistguide.com/blog/f/st-maximilian-kolbe%E2%80%99s-disagreement-with-the-kolbe-center)
https://therealistguide.com/blog/f/st-maximilian-kolbe%E2%80%99s-disagreement-with-the-kolbe-center (https://therealistguide.com/blog/f/st-maximilian-kolbe%E2%80%99s-disagreement-with-the-kolbe-center)
Correct
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: apollo on February 21, 2019, 01:13:01 AM
Both site authored by Fr. Robinson? :jester:
The page at Geocentrism Debunked is written by David Palm and
he quotes Fr Robinson.  So what?  Prove him wrong !
Read my lips.  Prove him wrong !
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 21, 2019, 02:40:11 PM
Introduction
St. Maximilian Kolbe’s Disagreement with the Kolbe Center

The Kolbe Center designates itself as “a Catholic apostolate dedicated to proclaiming the truth about the origins of man & the universe”. That ‘truth’ amounts to a purportedly Catholic version of what is really just modern Protestant creationism, the idea—more properly referred to as ‘biblicism’—that God intended for the Bible to teach science through a strictly literal interpretation of the Biblical text. This idea leads the Kolbe Center to conclude that the Bible teaches geocentrism, a 6000 year age of the universe, and a Deluge that covered the entire Earth, instead of a limited part of it. Since they insist that this is what the Bible teaches, and the Bible is inerrant (as we all agree), they also conclude that this is what the Church teaches.

Ahem, ahem. The facts are that Geocentrism was the belief of all the Fathers in the Church until heliocentrism, a long held Pythagorean heresy, was introduced back into Europe by way of Cosimo de medici in 1460. Creation ex nihilo, in six days or immediately, was also traditionally held by all in the Church prior to the first theory of Evolution, the 'Nebular hypothesis' in 1796, another heresy, that THEIR solar-system evolved by way of atoms. Thus we can see these 'beliefs' are MODERN not traditional.

In 1615 Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, who, with a half dozen other Cardinals who presided over the trial of the heretic Bruno, wrote:

'Nor may it be answered that this is not a matter of faith, for if it is not a matter of faith from the point of view of the subject matter (ex parte objecti), it is a matter of faith on the part of the ones who have spoken (ex parte dicentis). It would be just as heretical to deny that Abraham had two sons and Jacob twelve, as it would be to deny the virgin birth of Christ, for both are declared by the Holy Ghost through the prophets and apostles.’


In 1616 Pope Paul V, by way of papal decree, confirmed biblical geocentrism as irreformable truth by Pope Urban VIII in 1633 because iot was the interpretation of ALL THE FATHERS, and in Pope Pius VII time in 1820 once more confirmed as papal and non-reformable, a decree never challenged by any pope since. If Fr Robinson can show us such a rejection or clarification, then he wins his case. If he cannot then in God's eyes, in His Church, Geocentrism is more than an opinion, it is a dogma.

In 1741, popes and churchmen we being criticised and laughed at for upholding the 1616 decree because they claimed heliocentrism was proven by science. Because of this philosophical criticism Pope Benedict XIV took one prohibition of heliocentric books off the Index. This was interpreted by many as an admittance that the 1616 decree was an error.
By 1820, this criticism and laughter at the Church's ban on the initial 5 pro-heliocentric books reached an all time high. Atheists, agnostics and Modernists were at the forefront of this demand that the Church admit it made an error in 1616 and should take the word of modern astronomers and philosophers and admit their mistake.

But the Catholic Church cannot reject papal decrees. So what did the Holy Office do. A guy called Fr Olivieri, a 19th century Fr Robinson, reinterpreted the irreversible decree to make it look like it called a violent heliocentrism the heresy defined in 1616, but that the heliocentrism of 1820 was not a violent one. Thus the Catholic Church had its infallible 1616 decree safe and sound in its archives while at the same time got Pope Pius VII to take the last 5 books off the index and allow heliocentrism, but always prefixed with the words 'according to modern astronomers.' This of course was a con-trick of Olivieri's because the same fixed sun heliocentrism is contained in the two heliocentric theories of 1820. This was the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY churchmen CHEATED a heresy off the books and allowed it and its OFFSPRING to INFILTRATE THE WOMB OF THE CHURCH. And what were the poisoned fruits of the heliocentric heresy?

The first was that to avoid another such 'embarrassing SCANDAL' again, no pope dared dogmatised any doctrine on Creation. Thus there was MODERNIST freedom to invent anything, call it science, and apply it to Genesis, and MODERNISM IS YOUR UNCLE. This the Freemasons did at will.

This is where they go astray.
Since Pope Leo XIII’s encyclical Providentissimus Deus (1893), Catholic exegetes have abandoned the idea that the Bible is meant to teach science, adding this principle to the age old Catholic principle that the Bible must be reconciled with science, at least with settled science. Pope Leo explicitly states that:


And here above you see the result of the 1820 'hijacking' of the Bible and science. Such was the Modernist reinterpreting of Scripture, Leo XIII had to try to stop it with an encyclical. But this Letter on Scripture HAD TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE 1820 U-TURN and the reasons given by Fr Olivieri to his Pope to allow 'modern astronomy.' So it became a heliocentric encyclical when it reiterated the EXCUSES used to bypass the 1616 decree in its infamous paragraph 15.


‘15: But [the interpreter] must not on that account consider that it is forbidden, when just cause exists, to push enquiry and exposition beyond what the Fathers have done; provided he carefully observes the rule so wisely laid down by St Augustine – not to depart from the literal and obvious sense, except only where reason makes it untenable or necessity requires, a rule to which it is more necessary to adhere strictly in these times, when the thirst for novelty and unrestrained freedom of thought make the danger of error most real and proximate.’ Neither should those passages be neglected which the Fathers have understood in an allegorical or figurative sense.’--- Providentissimus Deus.


Anyone who claims it dictates traditional Catholic exegesis and understanding is WRONG, for it a product of the Galilean reformation when it included the very words of Galileo when he said all the Fathers were wrong in their interpretation. Indeed it is an anti-all the Fathers encyclical because it had been used endlessly as a licence to promote a heretical heliocentric interpretation held by all the Fathers. Indeed it NEVER STATES TRENT'S TEACHING ABOUT ALL THE FATHERS, for me it kind of tricks its way around it by stating 'to push enquiry and exposition beyond what the Fathers have done.' Now anyone reading this would think it changes Trent's teaching WHEN ALL THE FATHERS AGREE especially the one it has in mind, the Out geocentric, in heliocentric one. 
We can of course add to the above any other change in interpretation based on long ages and the evolution of Flora and Fauna. More proof of its hidden bad fruits is that Fr Robinson uses it to promote his herretical nonsense. 

Notwithstanding the authority of this encyclical and succeeding pre-Vatican II encyclicals on Scripture; notwithstanding the fact that biblicism has never been a position of the Catholic Church, but rather has its origins in Protestantism; notwithstanding the clear evidence that pre-Vatican II Catholic exegetes, including those fully orthodox, did not countenance the creationist position in their Scripture manuals and scholarly Biblical journals—despite all this, the Kolbe Center claims that creationist biblicism is the ‘traditional Catholic doctrine of creation’.

So now it time to shoot the messenger, just like St Anthonasius was. Indeed if anyone want a true Traditional Catholic encyclical on the Bible, Pope Benedict XV's Spiritus Paractlitus is one. As we would expect, the Pope had to address 99% of the correctness of Pope Leo's last Letter, but he did not give licence for Fr Robinson to peervert Genesis with his heresies;

19. Yet no one can pretend that certain recent writers really adhere to these limitations. For while conceding that inspiration extends to every phrase - and, indeed, to every single word of Scripture - yet, by endeavoring to distinguish between what they style the primary or religious and the secondary or profane element in the Bible, they claim that the effect of inspiration - namely, absolute truth and immunity from error - are to be restricted to that primary or religious element. Their notion is that only what concerns religion is intended and taught by God in Scripture, and that all the rest - things concerning "profane knowledge," the garments in which Divine truth is presented - God merely permits, and even leaves to the individual author's greater or less knowledge. Small wonder, then, that in their view a considerable number of things occur in the Bible touching physical science, history and the like, which cannot be reconciled with modern progress in science!
20. Some even maintain that these views do not conflict with what our predecessor laid down since - so they claim - he said that the sacred writers spoke in accordance with the external - and thus deceptive - appearance of things in nature. But the Pontiff's own words show that this is a rash and false deduction. For sound philosophy teaches that the senses can never be deceived as regards their own proper and immediate object. Therefore, from the merely external appearance of things - of which, of course, we have always to take account as Leo XIII, following in the footsteps of St. Augustine and St. Thomas, most wisely remarks - we can never conclude that there is any error in Sacred Scripture.

So there you have it, How the DEVIKL did it and is still at it whi Fr Robinsdon and his lot on this thread.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: apollo on February 21, 2019, 03:15:36 PM
Ahem, ahem. The facts are that Geocentrism was the belief of all the Fathers in the Church until heliocentrism, a long held Pythagorean heresy, was introduced back into Europe by way of Cosimo de medici in 1460. Creation ex nihilo, in six days or immediately, was also traditionally held by all in the Church prior to the first theory of Evolution, the 'Nebular hypothesis' in 1796, another heresy, that THEIR solar-system evolved by way of atoms. Thus we can see these 'beliefs' are MODERN not traditional.

In 1615 Cardinal Robert Bellarmine, who, with a half dozen other Cardinals who presided over the trial of the heretic Bruno, wrote:
.
You failed to mention the disclaimer that St Robert Bellarmine said, as follow:
.
"8. Third. I say that if there were a true demonstration that the sun was in the center of the universe and the earth in the third sphere, and that the sun did not travel around the earth, but the earth circled around the sun, then it would be necessary to proceed with great caution in explaining the passages of Scripture which seemed contrary, and we would rather have to say that we did not understand them, than to say that something was false which has been demonstrated."
.
And you also failed to mention the disclaimer of St Augustine, as follows:
.
"If what they [astronomers] say is proved by unquestionable arguments, this holy Father does not say that the astronomers are to be ordered to dissolve their proofs and declare their own conclusions to be false. Rather, he says it must be demonstrated that what is meant in the Bible ... is not contrary to their proofs."
.
They never make this kind of disclaimer on infallible teachings of the Church, such as the divinity of Christ,
so your claim that Geocentrism is an infallible teaching of the Church is a damn LIE. 
.
BTW, I am taking a college course in astronomy and I'm going to invite the whole class and the professor
over to my house for dinner next Sunday.  How would you like to come over and help me convert them to
Catholicism, by giving your proof of Geocentrism?
.


Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: Banezian on February 21, 2019, 04:00:36 PM
.
You failed to mention the disclaimer that St Robert Bellarmine said, as follow:
.
"8. Third. I say that if there were a true demonstration that the sun was in the center of the universe and the earth in the third sphere, and that the sun did not travel around the earth, but the earth circled around the sun, then it would be necessary to proceed with great caution in explaining the passages of Scripture which seemed contrary, and we would rather have to say that we did not understand them, than to say that something was false which has been demonstrated."
.
And you also failed to mention the disclaimer of St Augustine, as follows:
.
"If what they [astronomers] say is proved by unquestionable arguments, this holy Father does not say that the astronomers are to be ordered to dissolve their proofs and declare their own conclusions to be false. Rather, he says it must be demonstrated that what is meant in the Bible ... is not contrary to their proofs."
.
They never make this kind of disclaimer on infallible teachings of the Church, such as the divinity of Christ,
so your claim that Geocentrism is an infallible teaching of the Church is a damn LIE.  
.
BTW, I am taking a college course in astronomy and I'm going to invite the whole class and the professor
over to my house for dinner next Sunday.  How would you like to come over and help me convert them to
Catholicism, by giving your proof of Geocentrism?
.
Yes. The Fathers were not dogmatic on these things
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 21, 2019, 04:51:55 PM
.
You failed to mention the disclaimer that St Robert Bellarmine said, as follow:
.
"8. Third. I say that if there were a true demonstration that the sun was in the center of the universe and the earth in the third sphere, and that the sun did not travel around the earth, but the earth circled around the sun, then it would be necessary to proceed with great caution in explaining the passages of Scripture which seemed contrary, and we would rather have to say that we did not understand them, than to say that something was false which has been demonstrated."
.
And you also failed to mention the disclaimer of St Augustine, as follows:
.
"If what they [astronomers] say is proved by unquestionable arguments, this holy Father does not say that the astronomers are to be ordered to dissolve their proofs and declare their own conclusions to be false. Rather, he says it must be demonstrated that what is meant in the Bible ... is not contrary to their proofs."
.
They never make this kind of disclaimer on infallible teachings of the Church, such as the divinity of Christ,
so your claim that Geocentrism is an infallible teaching of the Church is a damn LIE.  
.
BTW, I am taking a college course in astronomy and I'm going to invite the whole class and the professor
over to my house for dinner next Sunday.  How would you like to come over and help me convert them to
Catholicism, by giving your proof of Geocentrism?
.

Oh my Apollo, how does one reply to someone who I suspect is not for turning. First you are correct, I did not give all of Bellarmine's letter to Foscarini, only the bit relevant to show the geocentrism of Scripture was a matter of FAITH.

What you 'failed to mention' was the last bit of your quote that agrees with the facts then and now:

Third. I say that if there were a true demonstration that the sun was in the centre of the universe and the Earth in the third sphere, and that the sun did not travel around the Earth but the Earth circled the sun, then it would be necessary to proceed with great caution in explaining the passages of Scripture which seemed contrary, and we would rather have to say that we did not understand them than to say that something was false which has been demonstrated. But as for myself, I do not believe that there is any such demonstration; none has been shown to me. It is not the same thing to show that the appearances are saved by assuming that the sun is at the centre and the Earth is in the heavens, as it is to demonstrate that the sun really is in the centre and the Earth in the heavens. I believe that the first demonstration might exist, but I have grave doubts about the second, and in a case of doubt, one may not depart from the Scriptures as explained by the holy Fathers. I add that the words “the sun also riseth and the sun goeth down, and hasteneth to the place where he ariseth, etc.” were those of Solomon, who not only spoke by divine inspiration but was a man wise above all others and most learned in human sciences and in the knowledge of all created things, and his wisdom was from God. Thus it is not too likely that he would affirm something which was contrary to a truth either already demonstrated, or likely to be demonstrated.

Ever heard of Albert Einstein Apollo? Do you not know he too admitted heliocentrism was not proven, just like Bellarmine said. The same goes for St Augustine. You quote him as though proof for heliocentrism was shown.

Now if I am a Liar regarding infallibility, then so too was Pope Urban VII, and the Holy Office of 1820. I do not decide what is infallible or not as you seen to, I go by what the Church teaches.

Finally, I would love to join your class but I am too far away. And it is God who converts people. He uses others yes, but they must be open to the truth first. Now if I was there, and maybe you will pass this on, I would tell them that proof for God is in His creation (a Catholic dogma). Then tell them about the creation that God made. Everything is PERFECT, everything they need for life ,like air, food of every kind and flavour, clothing of so many kinds, stone and cement materials man needs for housing, and so many kinds of timber, metal, glass etc., etc., comes from the Earth He created.  Do they really think nature on its own came from nothing to provide every single one of man's needs? What about a field of clay? Does anyone really believe such material that can provide endless supplies of food happened by chance?
As for astronomy, do they know that the Bible tells us that there are as many stars as grains of sand on Earth? Ask them to count the number of grains in one handful. It will take them years to count one handful. That is God showing us His Omnipotence. Ask them if they ever heard of God's astronomer Giovanni Cassini who showed us Kepler and Newton's ellipse was wrong, that the real orbits are electromagnetic Cassinian ovals, the same ovals found in blood cells, snails, leaves and God knows how many other things in God's creation. Any of them believe in an electromagnetic universe (God created 'light.' Finally, according to Science, a la Einstein, geocentrism is as possible as heliocentrism. But according to stellar aberration only a geocentric universe is possible in Einstein's STR. How many of your pupils could understand why this is so?

Instead I would say you will probably tell them evolution is only possible if God does the miracles needed to make the impossible things necessary for evolution to work. Finally, no man can prove geocentrism or geocentrism. All man has to go on in science is evidence, and the only evidence is in favour of geocentrism. We see it working every day with our own eyes. But there is another way to truth, divine truth called faith. Catholics are supposed to believe in what we can see. we are also supposed to believe what the Bible says, and what all the Fathers say the Bible says. They all say the Earth is at the center and that the sun, moon, planets asnd stars go around it in a manner that gives us day and night for sleep, seasons for growth and rest for plants. Tell them to watch God at work in the trees around them. Pieces of wood suddenly give out leaves and flowers, just like magic. How did evolution arrange such miracles every year?
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: apollo on February 21, 2019, 08:00:30 PM
1. I did not give all of Bellarmine's letter to Foscarini, only the bit relevant to show the geocentrism of Scripture was a matter of FAITH.

2. Ever heard of Albert Einstein Apollo? Do you not know he too admitted heliocentrism was not proven, just like Bellarmine said. The same goes for St Augustine. You quote him as though proof for heliocentrism was shown.

3. Now if I am a Liar regarding infallibility, then so too was Pope Urban [Pius actually] VII, and the Holy Office of 1820. I do not decide what is infallible or not as you seem to, I go by what the Church teaches.

4. Finally, I would love to join your class but I am too far away ... blah, blah, blah.
As for astronomy, do they know that the Bible tells us that there are as many stars ... blah, blah, blah.
Any of them believe in an electromagnetic universe ... blah, blah, blah.


5. Instead I would say you will probably tell them evolution is only possible if God ... blah, blah, blah.

6. Finally, no man can prove geocentrism or geocentrism [heliocentrism?]. All man has to go on in science is evidence, and the only evidence is in favour of geocentrism. We see it working every day with our own eyes. [telescopes are useless?] But there is another way to truth, divine truth called faith. Catholics are supposed to believe in what we can see. we are also supposed to believe what the Bible says, [the earth shall not be moved? What a scientific statement.] and what all the Fathers say the Bible says [now the Fathers are infallible?]. They all say the Earth is at the center [the word "center" is not in the Bible, anywhere.] and that the sun, moon, planets and stars go around it in a manner that gives us day and night ... blah, blah, blah.
.
1. If Geocentrism is a matter of Faith, then the Catholic Church has contradicted itself.  Pope Paul VII (1616 decree) disagrees with Pope Pius VII (1822 decree).  Either the Holy Spirit has contradicted Himself [not possible] or it's NOT a matter of Faith [very possible] or Pope Paul VII is a heretic and all following popes are heretics for failure to call him a heretic [not very likely].
.
2. I never said anything about Heliocentrism.  I said Geocentrism is NOT a matter of Faith.  Pope Pius VII decree of 1822 says the same.  If the Church Fathers believed that bloodletting cures headaches is that a matter of Faith?  Scripture's proof of Geocentrism is nonexistent. Scripture is written in the language of the day.  That's what Pope Leo XIII said in "Providentissimus Deus".  Do you realize that if you are standing on Mars, the Sun will appear to COME UP in the morning and GO DOWN in the evening.  So then Mars must be the center of the universe [not a good measure for which planet is the center of the universe, because they all rotate, except for Mercury].
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3. The current teaching of the Church is that it cannot reject Heliocentrism and cannot refused to give permission to publish material favorable to Heliocentrism, the decree of 1822 by Pope Pius VII.  You do NOT go by this, therefore you have LIED again.
.
4. They believe in telescopes, a serious problem for Geocentrism.  The ASTRONOMY class has nothing to do with Darwin and his "evolution".  It's more about what can be observed with telescopes.  Ever heard of Stellar Paralax.  It cannot be observed without
telescopes.  It can be observed with good telescopes, which actually disproves Geocentrism.  Sorry.
.
5. It's not about Evolution nor Modernism.  It's about looking through telescopes.  No faith required.
.
6. The evidence is NOT in favor of Geocentrism.  The evidence shows that the Earth is orbiting the Sun.  The evidence is called, Stellar Paralax.  There is another problem for Geocentrism.  The galaxy of Andromeda would have to be traveling in orbit around the Earth at a speed of 6,000,000 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT.  Neptune would have to be going faster than the speed of light. 
.
I look forward to your next "blah, blah, blah", repetition of all the lies you keep publishing.
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Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: Banezian on February 21, 2019, 08:17:06 PM
.
1. If Geocentrism is a matter of Faith, then the Catholic Church has contradicted itself.  Pope Paul VII (1616 decree) disagrees with Pope Pius VII (1822 decree).  Either the Holy Spirit has contradicted Himself [not possible] or it's NOT a matter of Faith [very possible] or Pope Paul VII is a heretic and all following popes are heretics for failure to call him a heretic [not very likely].
.
2. I never said anything about Heliocentrism.  I said Geocentrism is NOT a matter of Faith.  Pope Pius VII decree of 1822 says the same.  If the Church Fathers believed that bloodletting cures headaches is that a matter of Faith?  Scripture's proof of Geocentrism is nonexistent. Scripture is written in the language of the day.  That's what Pope Leo XIII said in "Providentissimus Deus".  Do you realize that if you are standing on Mars, the Sun will appear to COME UP in the morning and GO DOWN in the evening.  So then Mars must be the center of the universe [not a good measure for which planet is the center of the universe, because they all rotate, except for Mercury].
.
3. The current teaching of the Church is that it cannot reject Heliocentrism and cannot refused to give permission to publish material favorable to Heliocentrism, the decree of 1822 by Pope Pius VII.  You do NOT go by this, therefore you have LIED again.
.
4. They believe in telescopes, a serious problem for Geocentrism.  The ASTRONOMY class has nothing to do with Darwin and his "evolution".  It's more about what can be observed with telescopes.  Ever heard of Stellar Paralax.  It cannot be observed without
telescopes.  It can be observed with good telescopes, which actually disproves Geocentrism.  Sorry.
.
5. It's not about Evolution nor Modernism.  It's about looking through telescopes.  No faith required.
.
6. The evidence is NOT in favor of Geocentrism.  The evidence shows that the Earth is orbiting the Sun.  The evidence is called, Stellar Paralax.  There is another problem for Geocentrism.  The galaxy of Andromeda would have to be traveling in orbit around the Earth at a speed of 6,000,000 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT.  Neptune would have to be going faster than the speed of light.  
.
I look forward to your next "blah, blah, blah", repetition of all the lies you keep publishing.
.
All correct. Finally, someone who has the patience to correct these fundie nuts
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2019, 06:58:27 AM
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1. If Geocentrism is a matter of Faith, then the Catholic Church has contradicted itself.  Pope Paul VII (1616 decree) disagrees with Pope Pius VII (1822 decree).  Either the Holy Spirit has contradicted Himself [not possible] or it's NOT a matter of Faith [very possible] or Pope Paul VII is a heretic and all following popes are heretics for failure to call him a heretic [not very likely].
 
I look forward to your next "blah, blah, blah", repetition of all the lies you keep publishing.

1. The Catholic Church does not contradict itself. But one has to know the difference between the 'Catholic Church' and the utterences and behaviour of men. When a Pope defines a matter of faith or morals, he speaks for the Catholic Church. That was the 1616 decree of Pope Paul V. Vatican Council I set out the conditions for infallibility for this 1616 decree:

‘The Roman Pontiffs, moreover, according to the condition of the times and affairs advised, sometimes by calling ecuмenical councils… sometimes by particular synods, sometimes by employing other helps which divine providence supplied, have defined that those matters must be held which with God’s help they have recognised as in agreement with Sacred Scripture and apostolic tradition. For, the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successors of Peter that by His revelation they might disclose new doctrine, but that by His help they might guard sacredly the revelation transmitted through the apostles and the deposit of faith, and might forcefully set it out…’ --- Vatican I (1869-1870) (Denz. 1836.)

When a pope puts a book on the index, or takes one off it, that is not a teaching of the Catholic Church. That is what Pope Pius VII and Gregory XVI did in 1820 and 1835. Pope Paul VI took every book off the Index in 1965, but every heresy in them remained heresies. Pope Paul VI was never accused of allowing the heresies in these books as you infer happened in 1820 and after that. Those who allow or promulgate heresies are heretics, but there are different KINDS of heresies and heritics. There are formal heretics, those who know what they are promulgating is opposed to a Church dogmas and there are material heretics, those who do not know what they allow or believe is directly contrary to a dogma. And in this case the popes were told the non-violent heliocentrism was NOT HERETICAL and that is the heliocentrism these popes allowed. Material heresy does not result in punishment. However, if one is shown the truth and one choses to deny the 1616 dercree, then their material heresy becomes formal.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2019, 07:24:38 AM
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2. I never said anything about Heliocentrism.  I said Geocentrism is NOT a matter of Faith.  Pope Pius VII decree of 1822 says the same.  If the Church Fathers believed that bloodletting cures headaches is that a matter of Faith?  Scripture's proof of Geocentrism is nonexistent. Scripture is written in the language of the day.  That's what Pope Leo XIII said in "Providentissimus Deus".  Do you realize that if you are standing on Mars, the Sun will appear to COME UP in the morning and GO DOWN in the evening.  So then Mars must be the center of the universe [not a good measure for which planet is the center of the universe, because they all rotate, except for Mercury].

I look forward to your next "blah, blah, blah", repetition of all the lies you keep publishing.

It is most difficult to debate with people who do not seem to be able to understand the history of that infamous U-turn, people who add insults to their posts, and in normal circuмstances should not deserve replies to such posts. But many others are reading these posts and for them it is always worth answering confusing posts as above.

The 1616 decree is a matter of Faith. This was held by all, especially Pope Urban VII who had it recorded in the 1633 trial of Galileo. No pope in history has ever said, inferred or suggested it was not a matter of faith. Such was their concern in 1820 that it was a matter of faith they actuially had to invent a heliocentrism they said was NOT the heliocentrism of 1616. Why do this if it was not of faith? Just read the decrees of 1820

1820 Decree states: ‘The Assessor of the Holy Office has referred the request of Giuseppe Settele, Professor of Astronomy at La Sapienza University, regarding permission to publish his work Elements of Astronomy in which he espouses the common opinion of the astronomers of our time regarding the Earth’s daily and yearly motions, to His Holiness through Divine Providence, Pope Pius VII. Previously, His Holiness had referred this request to the Supreme Sacred Congregation and concurrently to the consideration of the Most Eminent and Reverend General Cardinal Inquisitor. His Holiness has decreed that no obstacles exist for those who sustain Copernicus’ affirmation regarding the Earth’s movement in the manner in which it is affirmed today, even by Catholic authors. He has, moreover, suggested the insertion of several notations into this work, aimed at demonstrating that the above mentioned affirmation, as it is has come to be understood, does not present any difficulties; difficulties that existed in times past, prior to the subsequent astronomical observations that have now occurred. [Pope Pius VII] has also recommended that the implementation [of these decisions] be given to the Cardinal Secretary of the Supreme Sacred Congregation and Master of the Sacred Apostolic Palace. He is now appointed the task of bringing to an end any concerns and criticisms regarding the printing of this book, and, at the same time, ensuring that in the future, regarding the publication of such works, permission is sought from the Cardinal Vicar whose signature will not be given without the authorization of the Superior of his Order.’

‘The most excellent [Holy Office] have decreed that there must be no denial, by the present or by future Masters of the Sacred Apostolic Palace, of permission to print and to publish works which treat of the mobility of the Earth and of the immobility of the sun, according to the common opinion of modern astronomers, as long as there are no other contrary indications, on the basis of the decrees of the Sacred Congregation of the Index of 1757 and of this Supreme [Holy Office] of 1820; and that those who would show themselves to be reluctant or would disobey, should be forced under punishments at the choice of [this] Sacred Congregation, with derogation of [their] claimed privileges, where necessary.’

Now why do you think the CONDITIONAL HELIOCENTRISM is in both decrees? Because it allows a non-heretical heliocentrism, or so they thought.


Human beings created by God were placed on Earth. For mankind then, it is what we see that God intended. we see and experience a geocentric universe. What one would experience on Mars is not the same and relevant only to Martians Pope Francis wants to baptise.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2019, 07:47:44 AM
3. The current teaching of the Church is that it cannot reject Heliocentrism and cannot refused to give permission to publish material favorable to Heliocentrism, the decree of 1822 by Pope Pius VII.  You do NOT go by this, therefore you have LIED again. 
 
I look forward to your next "blah, blah, blah", repetition of all the lies you keep publishing.

I have just recorded the decrees of 1820 and 1822, you say I lied about. Since when did allowing book teaching a 'modern version of heliocentrism' become a Church teaching? Here again are the parts of these decrees that are materially heretical:

1. BOOKS in which he espouses the common opinion of the astronomers of our time regarding the Earth’s daily and yearly motions,

2. His Holiness has decreed that no obstacles exist for those who sustain Copernicus’ affirmation regarding the Earth’s movement in the manner in which it is affirmed today, even by Catholic authors (BOOKS)

3.to publish works (BOOKS) which treat of the mobility of the Earth and of the immobility of the sun, according to the common opinion of modern astronomers,

It is not a Church teaching, it was an invention by popes to appease the word of philosophers and astronomers and authors. If you do not know the difference between Church teaching, erroneous utterences and decrees about books, and utterences made at Vatican II like Gaudium et Spes, then don't go preaching to others until you do. 
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2019, 08:09:32 AM
4. They believe in telescopes, a serious problem for Geocentrism.  The ASTRONOMY class has nothing to do with Darwin and his "evolution".  It's more about what can be observed with telescopes.  Ever heard of Stellar Paralax.  It cannot be observed without
telescopes.  It can be observed with good telescopes, which actually disproves Geocentrism.  Sorry.
 
I look forward to your next "blah, blah, blah", repetition of all the lies you keep publishing.
Ah, at last we are down to astronomy. It is obvious to me Apollo you know as much about this subject as you do about Church teaching that is binding and Vatican I that says:
For, the Holy Spirit was not promised to the successors of Peter that by His revelation they might disclose new doctrine,

But they did this when inventing a non-heretical heliocentrism while at the same time hiding the heretical heliocentrism.

The Heliocentrism allowed into the Church's womb in 1835 was placing human reasoning over divine revelation. If it worked with cosmology, then why not with an atheistic version of origins. And history records this is EXACTLY what happened. Long ages, evolution and Pius XII's Big Bang creation in 1952, and now Fr Robinson's latest book of heresies. Books have been written on this evolution of 'science' into Scripture and doctrine, including the following:

‘Within two centuries…the world was led into a new realm of thought in which an evolution theory of the visible universe was sure to be rapidly developed. For there came, one after the other, five of the greatest men our race has produced, Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Descartes, and Newton, and when their work was done the old theological conception of the universe was gone.… the Almighty enthroned upon “the circle of the heavens,” and with his own hands, or with angels as his agents, keeping sun, moon, and planets in motion for the benefit of the Earth, opening and closing the “windows of heaven,”… all this had disappeared. These five men had given a new divine revelation to the world; and through the last, Newton, had come a vast new conception, destined to be fatal to the old theory of creation, for he had shown throughout the universe, in place of almighty caprice, all-pervading law… The bitter opposition of theology to the first four of these men is well known; but the fact is not so widely known that Newton, in spite of his deeply religious spirit, was also strongly opposed. It was vigorously urged against him that by his statement of the law of gravitation he “took from God that direct action on his works so constantly ascribed to him in Scripture and transferred it to material mechanism,” and that he “substituted gravitation for Providence.” But more than this, these men gave a new basis for the theory of evolution as distinguished from the theory of creation…. By the middle of the nineteenth century the whole theological theory of creation – though still preached everywhere as a matter of form – was clearly seen by all thinking men to be hopelessly lost.’--- Andrew White, A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, New York, Appleton, 1870 and updated 1896,p. 15

Now when one reads NONSENSE like 'Ever heard of stellar parallax' proving heliocentrism. My God Apollo, is that the best you can rely on to retain your heresy? If stellar parallax proves heliocentrtism then modern cosmology after Einstein is full of idiots you ought to speak to.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2019, 08:24:11 AM
6. The evidence is NOT in favor of Geocentrism.  The evidence shows that the Earth is orbiting the Sun.  The evidence is called, Stellar Paralax.  There is another problem for Geocentrism.  The galaxy of Andromeda would have to be traveling in orbit around the Earth at a speed of 6,000,000 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT.  Neptune would have to be going faster than the speed of light.  
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I look forward to your next "blah, blah, blah", repetition of all the lies you keep publishing.

It may be a problem for you Apollo, but not for God. My Catholic faith teaches me God can will anything, even turning all the stars around the earth every 24 hours. Now call this "blah, blah, blah" a lie as much as you like, but it is my Catholic Faith.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: klasG4e on February 22, 2019, 10:03:56 AM
 Material heresy does not result in punishment.
Unless, of course, their ignorance was of a culpable nature in which case God may choose to punish them in this world and or the next.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: apollo on February 22, 2019, 11:12:08 AM
1. The Catholic Church does not contradict itself. But one has to know the difference between the 'Catholic Church' and the utterences and behaviour of men. When a Pope defines a matter of faith or morals, he speaks for the Catholic Church. That was the 1616 decree of Pope Paul V. Vatican Council I set out the conditions for infallibility for this 1616 decree:
.
1. NOT TRUE. Pope Pius V's decree was an OPINION.  He never signed the docuмent and he never sent out letters to all the bishops of the world,
which is required when an infallible dogma is declared.  
.
If he had made an infallible decree, then the religion vs science debate would have been won by science in 1822, and even more so today.
Look up "Stellar Parallax".  
.
Geocentrism is NOT a matter of Faith. 
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: Incredulous on February 22, 2019, 11:28:49 AM
On a side note, it seems the Resistance has given Fr. Robinson a "pass" for far too long

The math, computer science major, turned priest is on an egotist's mission to evangelize the world. He travels unabated, spreading his pseudo science.

It would be appropriate to start protesting his appearances publicly, outside the Neo-SSPX mass centers.

This will give Fr. Wegner, the priest turned "PR guru" something to think about.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: klasG4e on February 22, 2019, 11:34:48 AM

4. They believe in telescopes, a serious problem for Geocentrism.  The ASTRONOMY class has nothing to do with Darwin and his "evolution".  It's more about what can be observed with telescopes.  Ever heard of Stellar Paralax.  It cannot be observed without
telescopes.  It can be observed with good telescopes, which actually disproves Geocentrism.  Sorry.
.
5. It's not about Evolution nor Modernism.  It's about looking through telescopes.  No faith required.
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6. The evidence is NOT in favor of Geocentrism.  The evidence shows that the Earth is orbiting the Sun.  The evidence is called, Stellar Paralax.  There is another problem for Geocentrism.  The galaxy of Andromeda would have to be traveling in orbit around the Earth at a speed of 6,000,000 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT.  Neptune would have to be going faster than the speed of light.  

Wow, with all due respect your post is like comedy 101.  Looks like you would get an A+ in an astrophysics class taught by Fr. Paul Robinson down in the seminary in Australia if he actually taught such a class.  Here, however, it's quite a different matter.

Telescopes a serious problem for Geocentrism!  Now, that's a truly incredible statement to make.  I'm sorry to inform you that contrary to what Fr. Robinson still publicly holds -- even till this day as far as I know -- (see pp. 279-282 of Fr. Robinson's book The Realist Guide to Religion and Science) stellar parallax absolutely does not carry the day for heliocentrism, much less disprove geocentrism.   As a matter of fact science can not prove or disprove geocentrism at least with any absolute certainty.  What it can do is provide evidence pointing in the direction of one or the other.  Contrary to popular opinion (shaped largely by modern atheist Big Bang scientists), the objective evidence points heavily in favor of geocentrism.

As for stellar parallax -- well it's quite simple: there is a complete and unequivocal  geometric equivalence of stellar parallax.  This is a well established fact which the scientific community grudgingly, but openly admits.  Perhaps, you can help the good Padre Robinson to come up to speed on this.

As for your objection to geocentrism on the ground of things traveling around the Earth at speeds faster than the speed of light, this simply shows your apparent ignorance of the nature of aether.  You should also realize that only the 1905 Special Theory of Relativity (not Einstein's subsequent 1916 General Theory) disallows an object to exceed the speed of light.  Since the Special Theory does not incorporate gravity, it is only applicable in very few cases, since most if not all of the universe ins under the control of gravity.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: apollo on February 22, 2019, 12:05:12 PM
I see the gang of vultures has been let out of their cage to attack me, with advanced
scientific knowledge about how an ancient theory of Geocentrism can be explained with
modern scientific knowledge. 

Modern science is great when it can explain your old ancient Geocentrism, but not when
it proves it wrong.

Relativity, electromagnetism, aether and whatever can explain Geocentrism ?

Ahh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.  I'm sorry, I'm laughing so much I cannot finish this reply.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: apollo on February 22, 2019, 12:17:04 PM
It is most difficult to debate with people who do not seem to be able to understand the history of that infamous U-turn, people who add insults to their posts, and in normal circuмstances should not deserve replies to such posts. But many others are reading these posts and for them it is always worth answering confusing posts as above.

The 1616 decree is a matter of Faith. This was held by all, especially Pope Urban VII who had it recorded in the 1633 trial of Galileo. No pope in history has ever said, inferred or suggested it was not a matter of faith. Such was their concern in 1820 that it was a matter of faith they actuially had to invent a heliocentrism they said was NOT the heliocentrism of 1616. Why do this if it was not of faith? Just read the decrees of 1820
.
Cassini, you forgot to dump the whole Catholic Encyclopedia into your last reply.  Can you please do that for me
in your next reply.  
.
Geocentrism is not a matter of FAITH.  It's NOT.  It's really really NOT.  
.
It's a theory.  THEORY, THEORY, THEORY.  
.
The Bible offers absolutely no proof of it.  The Sun come up and goes down. WOW.
.
I'm really tired of trying to convince you.  You go ahead and believe in Geocentrism.
And on your judgement day, you can tell God that you believed in Geocentrism.  
.
The Catholic Church made a U-TURN in 1820  ??
I guess Jesus Christ is a liar when he said, "I will be with you all days ...".
.
You, yourself, decide what is heresy and what is not ? When are you going to hold
a Council of the Church and declare with all the Cardinals that Pope Pius VII was a
heretic.  
.
Extreme sedevacantist.  That's what you are.

Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: klasG4e on February 22, 2019, 12:28:44 PM
Modern science is great when it can explain your old ancient Geocentrism, but not when
it proves it wrong.

Science has disproved geocentrism!  Oh really!  Please be so kind as to present your supposed evidence which disproves geocentrism.  Just think, if you can do it here without being easily refuted you should soon be world famous since up till now no one as in NO ONE has ever been known to do it either on CathInfo or elsewhere.

OK, go for it.  We (in your words, the "vultures") can hardly wait.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: Mr G on February 22, 2019, 12:35:00 PM
Hello all,

This topic (about the Kolbe Center Seminar) is a duplicate and in the wrong category, please go here: https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/any-interest-out-there-for-a-confrence-by-kolbe-center-for-creation/

I believe the debate is also more appropriate in another category.

NOTE: the seminar is not about the errors of Fr. Robinson, or about Kolbe Center vs. the SSPX. However, if Fr. Robinson or anyone else holds onto any errors that will be brought up during the seminar, then yes those errors will be discussed.

Title: “Creation, Evolution and the Crisis of Faith”

Theme: The Traditional Catholic Doctrine of Creation and the Judgment of Philosophy and Natural Science on the Theory of Evolution

A Seminar Sponsored by the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation

Presenter:  Hugh Owen, Director of the Kolbe Center, Dr. Thomas Seiler, Ph.D. in physics and Pamela Aker, Biologist



Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: apollo on February 22, 2019, 01:15:39 PM
Science has disproved geocentrism!  Oh really!  Please be so kind as to present your supposed evidence which disproves geocentrism.  Just think, if you can do it here without being easily refuted you should soon be world famous since up till now no one as in NO ONE has ever been known to do it either on CathInfo or elsewhere.

OK, go for it.  We (in your words, the "vultures") can hardly wait.
.
Hey, it's not MY proof that Geocentrism is wrong.  
It's the proof of every astronomer who studied "Stellar Parallax" and looked
through a modern powerful telescope to verify with his own eyes.
.
I know ... you don't accept "Stellar Parallax".  OK, then don't.  
You might not want to accept "Gravity" either.
.
P.S. I've already been through this kind of attack from you 2 times before.
You didn't prove anything before.  I doubt you will ever prove anything.
You just keep repeating that "nobody has ever ...".  That does not prove
anything, because you don't know all the proofs in the world and besides,
you would not be able to understand anything except, "The Sun comes up"
and "The Sun goes down".
.
Yeah, this Geocentrism topic belongs in a different thread.  It's the same
old thing like it always is.  No progress every gets made.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2019, 02:07:45 PM
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1. NOT TRUE. Pope Pius V's decree was an OPINION.  He never signed the docuмent and he never sent out letters to all the bishops of the world,
which is required when an infallible dogma is declared.  
.
If he had made an infallible decree, then the religion vs science debate would have been won by science in 1822, and even more so today.
Look up "Stellar Parallax".  
.
Geocentrism is NOT a matter of Faith.

To be honest Apollo, I cannot blame you for thinking that. You are a victim of that betrayal of 1820-1835 as were millions of Catholics since then and simply cannot believe Catholicism was cheated out of that biblical geocentric dogma. But nowadays,when one lives at a time when ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ cardinals and bishops run the Church today, protected by a pope who also tries to get around Catholic dogmas, we can all see God allows such things to happen. 

Now all the questions you ask and all the statements you make have been made by hundreds of others for the last 200 years. It is obvious that you are not open to truth but as I said before I am answering so others who may think in like manner will see the truth.

There are Church docuмents now available that show us the truth. You say Pope Pius V but you meant Paul V, decreed an OPINION whatever you meant by that. It was of course an opinion, the pope's opinion that agreed with his Holy Office that heliocentrism was formal heresy because it contradicted the revelation of Scripture so he decreed it formal heresy by way of the Holy Office. This is what popes do and did since getting the keys from Jesus.

As for him not signing it, well we know no pope signed or had to sign these Holy Office decrees. The Holy Office was set up to decided on matters of serious heresy and the pope was made prefect of it. In other words no decision came from this Office unless the pope said so. Thus no docuмent was signed by a pope or needed to be signed by a pope.

Who told you no 'letters' were sent to Bishops of the Catholic world telling them of the 1616 decree? What the heck do you think the Index was for? On March 5th 1616, the decree that banned books advocating a herliocentric universe was put on the Index that every churchman was aware of. 


on 2nd July 1633, after Galileo's trial, when Pope Urban VIII confirmed the 1616 dercree was absolute, non reformable, and Galileo was found guilty of suspicion of heresy, again under orders of the Pope, the condemnation was made universal, not just confined to Galileo alone as some apologists would argue. Copies of the sentence and his abjuration were sent to all vicar nuncios and inquisitors who made them known to professors of philosophy and theology throughout the Catholic world.

Now if you think the Church did all this with a false decree, now thatb you are told the truth, you are no Catholic.
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2019, 02:18:49 PM
I see the gang of vultures has been let out of their cage to attack me, with advanced
scientific knowledge about how an ancient theory of Geocentrism can be explained with
modern scientific knowledge.  

Modern science is great when it can explain your old ancient Geocentrism, but not when
it proves it wrong.

Relativity, electromagnetism, aether and whatever can explain Geocentrism ?

Ahh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.  I'm sorry, I'm laughing so much I cannot finish this reply.

Ok Apollo, I have only one more thing to say to you. I often wondered who God meant this for. You qualify without doubt.


Douay-Rheims Bible (https://biblehub.com/drb/matthew/7.htm)
Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you. (MATTHEW 7:6)
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2019, 02:25:27 PM
.
Cassini, you forgot to dump the whole Catholic Encyclopedia into your last reply.  Can you please do that for me
in your next reply.  
.
Geocentrism is not a matter of FAITH.  It's NOT.  It's really really NOT.  
.
It's a theory.  THEORY, THEORY, THEORY.  
.
The Bible offers absolutely no proof of it.  The Sun come up and goes down. WOW.
.
I'm really tired of trying to convince you.  You go ahead and believe in Geocentrism.
And on your judgement day, you can tell God that you believed in Geocentrism.  
.
The Catholic Church made a U-TURN in 1820  ??
I guess Jesus Christ is a liar when he said, "I will be with you all days ...".
.
You, yourself, decide what is heresy and what is not ? When are you going to hold
a Council of the Church and declare with all the Cardinals that Pope Pius VII was a
heretic.  
.
Extreme sedevacantist.  That's what you are.

Once again, my answer to this post is:

'Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.' (MATTHEW 7:6)
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: cassini on February 22, 2019, 02:38:42 PM
Hello all,

This topic (about the Kolbe Center Seminar) is a duplicate and in the wrong category, please go here: https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/any-interest-out-there-for-a-confrence-by-kolbe-center-for-creation/

I believe the debate is also more appropriate in another category.

NOTE: the seminar is not about the errors of Fr. Robinson, or about Kolbe Center vs. the SSPX. However, if Fr. Robinson or anyone else holds onto any errors that will be brought up during the seminar, then yes those errors will be discussed.

Title: “Creation, Evolution and the Crisis of Faith”

Theme: The Traditional Catholic Doctrine of Creation and the Judgment of Philosophy and Natural Science on the Theory of Evolution

A Seminar Sponsored by the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation

Presenter:  Hugh Owen, Director of the Kolbe Center, Dr. Thomas Seiler, Ph.D. in physics and Pamela Aker, Biologist

I suggest anyone attending this seminar read A A Martinez's BURNED ALIVE before attending it. It shows and references all the heresies to do with false philosophy since the Church began. Of importance is the current theory of evolution from atoms to cosmic bodies. That is a heresy, but like heliocentrism, has been shelved by churchmen as a result of the 1835 capitulation to the false philosophy of heliocentrism. You cannot separate the two, heliocentrism gave birth to evolution in the Church..
Title: Re: Kolbe Center Conference in St. Mary's about the errors of Fr. Robinsons book
Post by: klasG4e on February 22, 2019, 02:38:53 PM

NOTE: the seminar is not about the errors of Fr. Robinson, or about Kolbe Center vs. the SSPX. However, if Fr. Robinson or anyone else holds onto any errors that will be brought up during the seminar, then yes those errors will be discussed.

Title: “Creation, Evolution and the Crisis of Faith”

Theme: The Traditional Catholic Doctrine of Creation and the Judgment of Philosophy and Natural Science on the Theory of Evolution

A Seminar Sponsored by the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation

Presenter:  Hugh Owen, Director of the Kolbe Center, Dr. Thomas Seiler, Ph.D. in physics and Pamela Aker, Biologist

Unfortunately, Fr. Robinson has repeatedly doubled down in his errors concerning creation and evolution (which serve -- whether knowingly or unknowingly -- to undermine the Faith) ever since the publication of his book The Realist Guide to Religion and Science.  His widely expressed public views concerning creation and evolution are in radical opposition to those held by the Kolbe Center and indeed the differences between these two set of views are expressly highlighted on the Kolbe Center's very own website.

I realize that the Kolbe Center is not bringing its seminar to St. Marys for the purpose of provoking a fight, but it is bringing a sword with it -- the sword of truth, the sword of division.  May that it use it well to expose and cut down error -- grievous error!