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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: happenby on September 16, 2017, 09:36:29 AM

Title: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: happenby on September 16, 2017, 09:36:29 AM
Heliocentric model is a lie.  :boxer:
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Matthew on September 16, 2017, 11:03:55 AM
That's an interesting point.

You'd also want to factor in when you fly in an airplane, you cruise at X,000 feet, and how much bigger is the sun? And extrapolate from there.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 16, 2017, 01:15:17 PM
Heliocentric model is a lie.  :boxer:
So why don't you give us an estimate of the correct distance and size of the Sun... you won't, because a first grader with elementary knowledge of physics would shred you. You wouldn't be able to explain the energy emitted by the sun 24/7/365 for at least 6,000 years.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: noOneImportant on September 16, 2017, 01:16:32 PM
Nonsense. Explaining how that image is wrong requires at least 5th grade geometry.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Meg on September 16, 2017, 01:24:02 PM
You wouldn't be able to explain the energy emitted by the sun 24/7/365 for at least 6,000 years.

Why would it take at least 6000 years to explain the energy emitted by the sun? Or is your grammer here imprecise, and you meant to say something else?
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Meg on September 16, 2017, 01:30:39 PM
That's an interesting point.

You'd also want to factor in when you fly in an airplane, you cruise at X,000 feet, and how much bigger is the sun? And extrapolate from there.

You bring up a good question. The sun should appear to be larger the closer we get to it, if it were not 93,000,000 miles away. At least I think that's what you're are asking about.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 16, 2017, 01:36:47 PM
Why would it take at least 6000 years to explain the energy emitted by the sun? Or is your grammer here imprecise, and you meant to say something else?
Have you ever put a log on the fire?
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: happenby on September 16, 2017, 02:24:34 PM
The problem proving the size of the sun being different when closer in an air plane is that for the observer viewing from the plane, the sun would be maybe 5 or 10 miles closer than it would be to the observer on the ground. If the sun measures around 3000 miles up, there won't be a measurable difference from 3000 or 2990 miles.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 16, 2017, 02:25:44 PM
So why don't you give us an estimate of the correct distance and size of the Sun... you won't, because a first grader with elementary knowledge of physics would shred you. You wouldn't be able to explain the energy emitted by the sun 24/7/365 for at least 6,000 years.
It is so simple that the sun is close; I know if you will be able to understand. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ppPXChyTo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ppPXChyTo)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 16, 2017, 02:26:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4p9vWx0jvU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4p9vWx0jvU)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: happenby on September 16, 2017, 02:38:13 PM
The reason the sun appears 'in' the clouds is because of perspective (viewing from below). Clouds precede it's position and are also beyond it's position, yet the sun remains well above the clouds. The hot spot on the clouds and the fact clouds can be seen beyond the sun is proof it isn't 93,000,000 miles away but relatively close.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: happenby on September 16, 2017, 03:05:55 PM
So why don't you give us an estimate of the correct distance and size of the Sun... you won't, because a first grader with elementary knowledge of physics would shred you. You wouldn't be able to explain the energy emitted by the sun 24/7/365 for at least 6,000 years.
People understood the sun well before our time. Scripture explains how Joshua stopped the close-to-earth sun and moon over two specific places on earth: Joshua 10:12 "Then Josue spoke to the Lord, in the day that he delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said before them: Move not, O sun, toward Gabaon, nor thou, O moon, toward the valley of Ajalon. " Just because some say it took 6000 years to understand the sun is 93,00,00 miles away, doesn't mean it's true. Deriding people for your misconceptions is to your shame.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Tradplorable on September 16, 2017, 03:38:25 PM
So why don't you give us an estimate of the correct distance and size of the Sun... you won't, because a first grader with elementary knowledge of physics would shred you. You wouldn't be able to explain the energy emitted by the sun 24/7/365 for at least 6,000 years.
Golly, you crack me up.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Tradplorable on September 16, 2017, 03:43:07 PM
That's an interesting point.

You'd also want to factor in when you fly in an airplane, you cruise at X,000 feet, and how much bigger is the sun? And extrapolate from there.
I can extrapolate.
I fly frequently in the years since I became a flat earther. I always ride in a windowseat now for this reason.
On midday flights, you can take great photos of the sun at zenith (midpoint, or "high noon") when you fly under it. The sun appears bigger at zenith from your aircraft vantage point than it does at zenith from on the ground.
Think about that for a minute.
If average cruising altitude is 36,000 feet (6.8 miles) why does the sun look bigger, if you are only a little over six miles closer?
Because it's not that far away!
If the sun was 93 MILLION miles away, being 6.8 miles closer is NOT going to change its appearance.
But, it does, so that means it is much, much closer than 93M miles.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: happenby on September 16, 2017, 04:19:06 PM
I can extrapolate.
I fly frequently in the years since I became a flat earther. I always ride in a windowseat now for this reason.
On midday flights, you can take great photos of the sun at zenith (midpoint, or "high noon") when you fly under it. The sun appears bigger at zenith from your aircraft vantage point than it does at zenith from on the ground.
Think about that for a minute.
If average cruising altitude is 36,000 feet (6.8 miles) why does the sun look bigger, if you are only a little over six miles closer?
Because it's not that far away!
If the sun was 93 MILLION miles away, being 6.8 miles closer is NOT going to change its appearance.
But, it does, so that means it is much, much closer than 93M miles.
Thank you Tradplorable. Fascinating.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 16, 2017, 04:41:45 PM
So why don't you give us an estimate of the correct distance and size of the Sun... you won't, because a first grader with elementary knowledge of physics would shred you. You wouldn't be able to explain the energy emitted by the sun 24/7/365 for at least 6,000 years.
:sleep:
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: OHCA on September 16, 2017, 06:00:58 PM
I can extrapolate.
I fly frequently in the years since I became a flat earther. I always ride in a windowseat now for this reason.
On midday flights, you can take great photos of the sun at zenith (midpoint, or "high noon") when you fly under it. The sun appears bigger at zenith from your aircraft vantage point than it does at zenith from on the ground.
Think about that for a minute.
If average cruising altitude is 36,000 feet (6.8 miles) why does the sun look bigger, if you are only a little over six miles closer?
Because it's not that far away!
If the sun was 93 MILLION miles away, being 6.8 miles closer is NOT going to change its appearance.
But, it does, so that means it is much, much closer than 93M miles.
Interesting.  How close do you think the sun is, or may be?
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 16, 2017, 08:05:19 PM
(https://www.theatlantic.com/)
The Atlantic
(https://www.theatlantic.com/)





Visualizing How Much Energy the Sun Shines Onto Earth: A Thought Experiment
Imagine Niagara Falls. Now multiply it, again and again and again.

Like The Atlantic? Subscribe to The Atlantic Daily (http://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/daily/), our free weekday email newsletter.
 

Imagine Niagara Falls. Now multiply it, again and again and again. 
(https://cdn-theatlantic-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w680/cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/Sun-615.jpg)
NASA
Every day the sun beats down on the Earth, its energy literally making life possible. How much energy? A flow of 120,000 terawatts, which is, as science writer Oliver Morton puts it (http://heliophage.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/the-worldfalls/), "10,000 times the amount that flows through our industrial civilisation - all the world's reactors, turbines, cars, furnaces, boilers, generators and so on put together." Still can't quite picture what that amounts to? Morton has written a stunning little thought experiment to help. Here's how it goes (http://heliophage.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/the-worldfalls/):

Quote
Picture Horseshoe Falls, the most familiar, forceful and dramatic cataract in Niagara Falls, in full spate.
Now increase the height of the falls by a factor of 20; a kilometre of falling water, a cascade higher even than Angel Falls in Venezuela.
Now increase the flow by a factor of 10. Instead of 30 tonnes of water falling over each metre of the lip of the falls every second, allow 300 tonnes of water per metre.
Finally, widen the falls. Stretch them until they span a continent, with billions of tonnes of water falling over them every second. And don't stop there. Go on widening them until they stretch all around the equator: a kilometre-high wall of water thundering down incessantly, cutting the world in half, deafening leviathan in the abyss.
That is what 120,000 terawatts looks like. That is what drives the world in which you live.
[size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
So awesome. It's little wonder that Wikipedia's list of solar deities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_deities) runs so long.
[/font][/size]


So if the sun is only a few thousand miles away, how could something so apparently small produce so much energy? 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 16, 2017, 08:13:12 PM
So if the sun is only a few thousand miles away, how could something so apparently small produce so much energy?
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They forgot to mention that all this energy (120,000 terawatts) is what light power falls on the earth alone. 
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The sun radiates energy in all directions, so the vast majority of it goes out into space (flat-earthers deny space exists) and does not fall on the earth at all.
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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 16, 2017, 08:17:17 PM
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They forgot to mention that all this energy (120,000 terawatts) is what light power falls on the earth alone.
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The sun radiates energy in all directions, so the vast majority of it goes out into space (flat-earthers deny space exists) and does not fall on the earth at all.
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You're absolutely correct... I'm just trying to shine some perspective on the subject. 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 16, 2017, 08:29:12 PM
You're absolutely correct... I'm just trying to shine some perspective on the subject.
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Thank you. 
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Flat-earthers are attempting to re-define words, like "perspective," so as to make assertions about reality that otherwise wouldn't be there, because it's the reality in their mind they're talking about, not objective reality. To them, "perspective" refers to subjective reality, otherwise known as fantasy.
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But in the modern school of Kant, Dewey, Locke, Nietzsche and others, reality is in the mind -- so you don't have to recognize the facts that can be observed.
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Flat-earthers proclaim to be followers of ancient cosmology while they adhere dogmatically to Modernists, even without knowing it. But that's one of the earmarks of Modernism, that you can be infected without being aware of your own corruption.
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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Mithrandylan on September 16, 2017, 08:58:49 PM
(http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/ch/1989/ch890730.gif)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 16, 2017, 09:16:20 PM
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If Dr. Zack can do it, anyone can.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33KCyhxSdMM
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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 16, 2017, 09:31:40 PM
Beginning with Aristarchus of Samos(310-230 B.C., approximately) came up with a clever method of finding the moon’s distance, by careful observation of a lunar eclipse, which happens when the earth shields the moon from the sun’s light.

To better visualize a lunar eclipse, just imagine holding up a quarter (diameter one inch approximately) at the distance where it just blocks out the sun’s rays from one eye. Of course you shouldn’t try this---you’ll damage your eye! You can try it with the full moon, which happens to be the same apparent size in the sky as the sun. It turns out that the right distance is about nine feet away, or 108 inches. If the quarter is further away than that, it is not big enough to block out all the sunlight. If it is closer than 108 inches, it will totally block the sunlight from some small circular area, which gradually increases in size moving towards the quarter. Thus the part of space where the sunlight is totally blocked is conical, like a long slowly tapering ice cream cone, with the point 108 inches behind the quarter. Of course, this is surrounded by a fuzzier area, called the “penumbra”, where the sunlight is partially blocked. The fully shaded area is called the “umbra”. (This is Latin for shadow. Umbrella means little shadow in Italian.) If you tape a quarter to the end of a thin stick, and hold it in the sun appropriately, you can see these different shadow areas.

Question: If you used a dime instead of a quarter, how far from your eye would you have to hold it to just block the full moonlight from that eye? How do the different distances relate to the relative sizes of the dime and the quarter? Draw a diagram showing the two conical shadows.

Now imagine you’re out in space, some distance from the earth, looking at the earth’s shadow. (Of course, you could only really see it if you shot out a cloud of tiny particles and watched which of them glistened in the sunlight, and which were in the dark.) Clearly, the earth’s shadow must be conical, just like that from the quarter. And it must also be similar to the quarter’s in the technical sense---it must be 108 earth diameters long! That is because the point of the cone is the furthest point at which the earth can block all the sunlight, and the ratio of that distance to the diameter is determined by the angular size of the sun being blocked. This means the cone is 108 earth diameters long, the far point 864,000 miles from earth.

(https://i.imgur.com/loyMus2.jpg)

1. Now, if you use the same logic for measuring the distance of the Moon's shadow (during Solar eclipses), then we reckon like this:

3475 km  (diameter of the Moon) * 108 =375 300 km (maximum distance for seeing Moon's shadow)

405 696 (apogee-distance) - 21 296 = 384 400
363 104 (perigee-distance) - 21 296 = 384 400

384 400 = alleged average distance to the Moon

384 400 > 375 300

The question: If the average distance to the Moon is a larger number than the maximum distance for seeing Moon's shadow, how can we see the Moon's shadow, at all?


2. Perigee/Apogee vs Perihelion/Aphelion :

A) 405 696 (apogee-distance) - 363 104 (perigee-distance) = 42 592 km

152 097 700 (aphelion-distance) - 147 098 070 (perihelion-distance) = 4 999 630 km

4 999 630 - 42 592 = 117,38

(https://i.imgur.com/ldWymNK.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/WXW7mox.jpg)

B) 
 
     33' 30'' (angular diameter of the Moon at Perigee) - 29' 26'' (angular diameter of the Moon at Apogee) = 4,04

     32' 42'' (angular diameter of the Sun at Perihelion) - 31' 36'' (angular diameter of the Sun at Aphelion) = 1,06

The question: Even though the difference between distances Aphelion-Perihelion is117,38 times greater than the difference between distances Apogee-Perigee, the difference between angular diameters of the Sun is 4 times smaller than the difference between angular diameters of the Moon! HOW COME?
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 16, 2017, 09:36:24 PM
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This video is made by a very patient and careful teacher, using very simple methods. 
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Well done!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVgx0Eio2Mg
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24,114  views
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http://hilaroad.com/
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ScienceOnline (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSzRGOMI44ZvSMOot7Zmpzg)
Published on Mar 12, 2014

SUBSCRIBE 99K
The ancient Greeks discovered  the relationship between the earth, moon and sun.  A great example of the power of the human imagination.  This video demonstrates a method used by the ancient Greeks to determine  the distance to the sun, a good activity for any astronomy class.



Category
Education (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3yA8nDwraeOfnYfBWun83g)
License
Standard YouTube License

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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 16, 2017, 09:37:32 PM
Could somebody show these poor flat- earthers the exit from Seahaven now...


(http://newplays.org/show/2012-2013/the-truman-show/poster.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 16, 2017, 09:39:11 PM
You're absolutely correct... I'm just trying to shine some perspective on the subject.
You can't shine any light on the subject when you are trying to force the sun into being further away from the Flat Earth than it actually is.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 16, 2017, 09:41:21 PM
:sleep:
Who would have guessed the globe earthers' are sleeping once again. :P Keep up everybody; we are :incense: prevailing.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 16, 2017, 09:44:26 PM
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https://youtu.be/lVgx0Eio2Mg
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Quote
This video demonstrates a method used by the ancient Greeks to determine  the distance to the sun, a good activity for any astronomy class.
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Of course, this presumes "any astronomy class" has students who are actually willing to observe reality as it exists, take measurements, and then learn from what they've found.
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Flat-earthers would flunk such a class because they would have a priori opposition to every step along the way.
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They might even be expelled from the class because they would prevent the other students from learning the truths provided by observation and reasoning.
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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 16, 2017, 09:46:53 PM
You can't shine any light on the subject when you are trying to force the sun into being further away from the Flat Earth than it actually is.
Why don't you put a higher wattage light bulb in your dim-wit mind so that you may see the subject better. You're blinded by the darkness of your own perception of reality, as Neil pointed out earlier. 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 16, 2017, 09:52:38 PM
Why don't you put a higher wattage light bulb in your dim-wit mind so that you may see the subject better. You're blinded by the darkness of your own perception of reality, as Neil pointed out earlier.

The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government “space agencies” show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.

The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.

The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 16, 2017, 10:00:50 PM
And this has something to do with the distance between the earth and the sun? 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 16, 2017, 11:08:49 PM
And this has something to do with the distance between the earth and the sun?
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Here (https://www.universetoday.com/117843/how-did-we-find-the-distance-to-the-sun/) you go:
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As of 2012, 1 AU = 149,597,870,700 meters exactly, regardless of whether we find the Earth’s semi-major axis is slightly different in the future.
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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: OHCA on September 17, 2017, 01:32:34 AM
Interesting.  How close do you think the sun is, or may be?
Oops.  I see that my question has been overlooked.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: happenby on September 17, 2017, 10:30:03 AM
Oops.  I see that my question has been overlooked.
It really wasn't overlooked because there is varying thought in the sun's distance and exactness is not possible for most flat earthers who try to avoid insisting on what they don't know. While I personally do not know the distance to the sun, it is a common thought for fe people, based on geometry, that the sun is approximately 3000 miles away as shown in the meme at the beginning of this thread. That the sun is small and relatively close to earth is a certainty, and the point here, because what modern science says is impossible, that earth is a sphere orbiting a 93,000,000 mile away sun.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: OHCA on September 17, 2017, 11:16:24 AM
It really wasn't overlooked because there is varying thought in the sun's distance and exactness is not possible for most flat earthers who try to avoid insisting on what they don't know. While I personally do not know the distance to the sun, it is a common thought for fe people, based on geometry, that the sun is approximately 3000 miles away as shown in the meme at the beginning of this thread. That the sun is small and relatively close to earth is a certainty, and the point here, because what modern science says is impossible, that earth is a sphere orbiting a 93,000,000 mile away sun.
It would seem that if distance alone explained the aeronautical observations, the sun couldn't be more than 100 - 500 miles away, at most.  0.2%, though granted several times more than if the sun is 93M miles, is still too insignificant to explain the observations.  There must be other explanations.  I find it hard to believe that the sun is 93M miles away.  But that still doesn't convince me that the earth is flat.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Tradplorable on September 17, 2017, 11:20:06 AM
It would seem that if distance alone explained the aeronautical observations, the sun couldn't be more than 100 - 500 miles away, at most.  0.2%, though granted several times more than if the sun is 93M miles, is still too insignificant to explain the observations.  There must be other explanations.  I find it hard to believe that the sun is 93M miles away.  But that still doesn't convince me that the earth is flat.
I've seen various figures given in flat earth literature, e.g. 1,000 mi, 3,000 miles, even 300 miles.
One thing I know for certain is the diameter of the moon: 70-100 miles.
This is a FACT and can be observed scientifically from the solar eclipses.
Shadows only lengthen, they do NOT increase is size (width).
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Tradplorable on September 17, 2017, 11:21:28 AM
Beginning with Aristarchus of Samos(310-230 B.C., approximately) came up with a clever method of finding the moon’s distance, by careful observation of a lunar eclipse, which happens when the earth shields the moon from the sun’s light.

To better visualize a lunar eclipse, just imagine holding up a quarter (diameter one inch approximately) at the distance where it just blocks out the sun’s rays from one eye. Of course you shouldn’t try this---you’ll damage your eye! You can try it with the full moon, which happens to be the same apparent size in the sky as the sun. It turns out that the right distance is about nine feet away, or 108 inches. If the quarter is further away than that, it is not big enough to block out all the sunlight. If it is closer than 108 inches, it will totally block the sunlight from some small circular area, which gradually increases in size moving towards the quarter. Thus the part of space where the sunlight is totally blocked is conical, like a long slowly tapering ice cream cone, with the point 108 inches behind the quarter. Of course, this is surrounded by a fuzzier area, called the “penumbra”, where the sunlight is partially blocked. The fully shaded area is called the “umbra”. (This is Latin for shadow. Umbrella means little shadow in Italian.) If you tape a quarter to the end of a thin stick, and hold it in the sun appropriately, you can see these different shadow areas.

Question: If you used a dime instead of a quarter, how far from your eye would you have to hold it to just block the full moonlight from that eye? How do the different distances relate to the relative sizes of the dime and the quarter? Draw a diagram showing the two conical shadows.

Now imagine you’re out in space, some distance from the earth, looking at the earth’s shadow. (Of course, you could only really see it if you shot out a cloud of tiny particles and watched which of them glistened in the sunlight, and which were in the dark.) Clearly, the earth’s shadow must be conical, just like that from the quarter. And it must also be similar to the quarter’s in the technical sense---it must be 108 earth diameters long! That is because the point of the cone is the furthest point at which the earth can block all the sunlight, and the ratio of that distance to the diameter is determined by the angular size of the sun being blocked. This means the cone is 108 earth diameters long, the far point 864,000 miles from earth.

(https://i.imgur.com/loyMus2.jpg)

1. Now, if you use the same logic for measuring the distance of the Moon's shadow (during Solar eclipses), then we reckon like this:

3475 km  (diameter of the Moon) * 108 =375 300 km (maximum distance for seeing Moon's shadow)

405 696 (apogee-distance) - 21 296 = 384 400
363 104 (perigee-distance) - 21 296 = 384 400

384 400 = alleged average distance to the Moon

384 400 > 375 300

The question: If the average distance to the Moon is a larger number than the maximum distance for seeing Moon's shadow, how can we see the Moon's shadow, at all?


2. Perigee/Apogee vs Perihelion/Aphelion :

A) 405 696 (apogee-distance) - 363 104 (perigee-distance) = 42 592 km

152 097 700 (aphelion-distance) - 147 098 070 (perihelion-distance) = 4 999 630 km

4 999 630 - 42 592 = 117,38

(https://i.imgur.com/ldWymNK.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/WXW7mox.jpg)

B)
 
    33' 30'' (angular diameter of the Moon at Perigee) - 29' 26'' (angular diameter of the Moon at Apogee) = 4,04

    32' 42'' (angular diameter of the Sun at Perihelion) - 31' 36'' (angular diameter of the Sun at Aphelion) = 1,06

The question: Even though the difference between distances Aphelion-Perihelion is117,38 times greater than the difference between distances Apogee-Perigee, the difference between angular diameters of the Sun is 4 times smaller than the difference between angular diameters of the Moon! HOW COME?
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Your entire post is heliocentric hogwash.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 17, 2017, 11:48:54 AM
.
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Your entire post is heliocentric hogwash.
Hahahahahahahahahaha....
You took the bait! Notice I didn't provide a source? Thought it would be fun to just go over to one of your beloved sites, flatearth society, and do some cut and pasting... heehee 

P.S. I noticed over there in the comment sections, there's some rather bright posters who give you flat-headers a run for your money. Wish I had more time, it's rather entertaining. 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 17, 2017, 12:38:43 PM
Hahahahahahahahahaha....
You took the bait! Notice I didn't provide a source? Thought it would be fun to just go over to one of your beloved sites, flatearth society, and do some cut and pasting... heehee

P.S. I noticed over there in the comment sections, there's some rather bright posters who give you flat-headers a run for your money. Wish I had more time, it's rather entertaining.

Do you believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s)?

The majority of people on Cathinfo.com who refuse to believe that the earth is flat also do not believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s).
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: OHCA on September 17, 2017, 05:14:19 PM
Do you believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s)?

The majority of people on Cathinfo.com who refuse to believe that the earth is flat also do not believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s).
What do you base this supposed finding on?  Present the data.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Tradplorable on September 17, 2017, 05:17:15 PM
Hahahahahahahahahaha....
You took the bait! Notice I didn't provide a source? Thought it would be fun to just go over to one of your beloved sites, flatearth society, and do some cut and pasting... heehee

P.S. I noticed over there in the comment sections, there's some rather bright posters who give you flat-headers a run for your money. Wish I had more time, it's rather entertaining.
The flat earth society website (the original one, anyway) has many, many resources of HC and globe earth materials.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Tradplorable on September 17, 2017, 05:24:49 PM
Hahahahahahahahahaha....
You took the bait! Notice I didn't provide a source? Thought it would be fun to just go over to one of your beloved sites, flatearth society, and do some cut and pasting... heehee

P.S. I noticed over there in the comment sections, there's some rather bright posters who give you flat-headers a run for your money. Wish I had more time, it's rather entertaining.
P.S. It's a debate thread. There's much debate even on the flat earth society website, about the shape of earth. Your post was from a globalist defending the globe.
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=62793.0
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 17, 2017, 05:26:23 PM
What do you base this supposed finding on?  Present the data.
https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/are-there-any-people-on-cathinfo-com-who-do-not-believe-that-the-earth-is-flat/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/are-there-any-people-on-cathinfo-com-who-do-not-believe-that-the-earth-is-flat/)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Tradplorable on September 17, 2017, 05:30:41 PM
Hahahahahahahahahaha....
You took the bait! Notice I didn't provide a source? Thought it would be fun to just go over to one of your beloved sites, flatearth society, and do some cut and pasting... heehee

P.S. I noticed over there in the comment sections, there's some rather bright posters who give you flat-headers a run for your money. Wish I had more time, it's rather entertaining.
Here's your heliocentric source material:
http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/gkastr1.pdf
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 17, 2017, 05:37:17 PM
.
Is the sun 93 million miles away? Nope. It's 149,597,870.7 kilometers away. 

Here (https://www.universetoday.com/117843/how-did-we-find-the-distance-to-the-sun/) you go:
.
As of 2012, 1 AU = 149,597,870,700 meters exactly, regardless of whether we find the Earth’s semi-major axis is slightly different in the future.
.
So the question has been settled.
.
I know, 2012 is kind of recent, and it's hard for flat-earthers to keep up with the news. Sorry.
.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: OHCA on September 17, 2017, 06:50:29 PM
https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/are-there-any-people-on-cathinfo-com-who-do-not-believe-that-the-earth-is-flat/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/are-there-any-people-on-cathinfo-com-who-do-not-believe-that-the-earth-is-flat/)
All I see there is the same bare naked speculative assertion.  What is the root of this notion that you claim to hold?
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 17, 2017, 07:02:15 PM
.
Is the sun 93 million miles away? Nope. It's 149,597,870.7 kilometers away.

Here (https://www.universetoday.com/117843/how-did-we-find-the-distance-to-the-sun/) you go:
.
As of 2012, 1 AU = 149,597,870,700 meters exactly, regardless of whether we find the Earth’s semi-major axis is slightly different in the future.
.
So the question has been settled.
.
I know, 2012 is kind of recent, and it's hard for flat-earthers to keep up with the news. Sorry.
.
.
Translated, this means 92,955,807 miles away, which is less than 93 million miles away.
.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: kiwiboy on September 17, 2017, 07:26:16 PM
Hahahahahahahahahaha....
You took the bait! Notice I didn't provide a source? Thought it would be fun to just go over to one of your beloved sites, flatearth society, and do some cut and pasting... heehee

P.S. I noticed over there in the comment sections, there's some rather bright posters who give you flat-headers a run for your money. Wish I had more time, it's rather entertaining.

I think it shows how little you have studied the flat earth, that you have no idea clearly that the flat earth society are Masonic controlled opposition. They are there to make the flat earth look stupid.

We have nothing to do with those fools.

Do you not realise that in the more widely accepted model the sun goes over and around the flat earth rather than under, and that a shadow in that case, of the earth would make no sense?

But perhaps, like Neil Obstat you prefer to ignore posts that challenge you, especially if it comes from a man, and opt to pick on the women instead....
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 17, 2017, 09:20:11 PM
But perhaps, like Neil Obstat you prefer to ignore posts that challenge you, especially if it comes from a man, and opt to pick on the women instead....
Man? Were? Effeminate male... yea, there are few of those who believe with their flat-heads that the earth is flat.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 18, 2017, 12:31:44 AM
Man? Were? Effeminate male... yea, there are few of those who believe with their flat-heads that the earth is flat.

Do you believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s)?

The majority of people on Cathinfo.com who refuse to believe that the earth is flat also do not believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s).
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 18, 2017, 01:38:45 PM
Do you believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s)?

The majority of people on Cathinfo.com who refuse to believe that the earth is flat also do not believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s).
.
Why don't you just keep posting the same (misspelled) question and (misspelled) platitudes again and again?
.
Oh, right. You ARE posting the same thing over and over.
.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Meg on September 18, 2017, 02:06:12 PM
.
Why don't you just keep posting the same (misspelled) question and (misspelled) platitudes again and again?
.
Oh, right. You ARE posting the same thing over and over.
.

Neil, as you are a traditional Catholic, why would you not want to answer the question about whether or not you believe in all of the infallibly defined dogmas of the Catholic Church? I, for one, believe in all of them. Why wouldn't you?

Aren't traditional Catholics supposed to believe in and accept all of the infallibly defined dogmas of the Church (without innovation)? That's what I assume, anyway. 

What's odd is that the globe-earthers don't want to address this. 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 18, 2017, 02:20:35 PM
All I see there is the same bare naked speculative assertion.  What is the root of this notion that you claim to hold?
.
You might as well ask questions of a lamp post or a brick wall or a scarecrow.
.
(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F736x%2Fa3%2Fbc%2F26%2Fa3bc267391a49533b972945fea44b0b3--funniest-cartoons-too-funny.jpg&sp=d2eace06fb9dd11fca1a84954a05eb0b)                                                   
.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 18, 2017, 02:32:59 PM
Neil, as you are a traditional Catholic, why would you not want to answer the question about whether or not you believe in all of the infallibly defined dogmas of the Catholic Church? I, for one, believe in all of them. Why wouldn't you?

Aren't traditional Catholics supposed to believe in and accept all of the infallibly defined dogmas of the Church (without innovation)? That's what I assume, anyway.

What's odd is that the globe-earthers don't want to address this.
.
Questions persistently posted with deliberate misspellings prove from the start that the questioner is not interested in productive intelligent discussion but only puts out the same pablum because predetermined responses and narrow-minded rejoinders are already planned. Besides, someone like you who has been around here for 4 years ought to have seen previous responses to this sort of query when asked by someone who is capable of actually carrying on a conversation, instead of by someone who predictably regurgitates the same canned posts over and over.
.
How do you see flat-earthism as relevant to defined dogma of the Church, and vice versa?
.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 18, 2017, 02:43:31 PM
.
Questions persistently posted with deliberate misspellings prove from the start that the questioner is not interested in productive intelligent discussion but only puts out the same pablum because predetermined responses and narrow-minded rejoinders are already planned. Besides, someone like you who has been around here for 4 years ought to have seen previous responses to this sort of query when asked by someone who is capable of actually carrying on a conversation, instead of by someone who predictably regurgitates the same canned posts over and over.
.
How do you see flat-earthism as relevant to defined dogma of the Church, and vice versa?
.

Do you believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s)?

The majority of people on Cathinfo.com who refuse to believe that the earth is flat also do not believe all Infallibly Defined Dogmas’ of the Catholic Church without innovation(s).
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 18, 2017, 02:45:13 PM
I find it telling that flat-earthers have made no response to your challenge.
.
You invited them to do a thought experiment, but they cannot, because they can't think.
.

(https://www.theatlantic.com/)
The Atlantic
(https://www.theatlantic.com/)





Visualizing How Much Energy the Sun Shines Onto Earth: A Thought Experiment
Imagine Niagara Falls. Now multiply it, again and again and again.

Like The Atlantic? Subscribe to The Atlantic Daily (http://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/daily/), our free weekday email newsletter.

Imagine Niagara Falls. Now multiply it, again and again and again. 
(https://cdn-theatlantic-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w680/cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/science/Sun-615.jpg)
NASA
Every day the sun beats down on the Earth, its energy literally making life possible. How much energy? A flow of 120,000 terawatts, which is, as science writer Oliver Morton puts it (http://heliophage.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/the-worldfalls/), "10,000 times the amount that flows through our industrial civilisation - all the world's reactors, turbines, cars, furnaces, boilers, generators and so on put together." Still can't quite picture what that amounts to? Morton has written a stunning little thought experiment to help. Here's how it goes (http://heliophage.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/the-worldfalls/):

So awesome. It's little wonder that Wikipedia's list of solar deities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_solar_deities) runs so long.



So if the sun is only a few thousand miles away, how could something so apparently small produce so much energy? 
.
The challenge is simple and the silence in response is self-explanatory. 
.
Flat-earthers have no response, except to jump topic to an unrelated non-sequitur.
.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: kiwiboy on September 18, 2017, 02:51:53 PM
Man? Were? Effeminate male... yea, there are few of those who believe with their flat-heads that the earth is flat.


Sorry, I mistook you for someone who might be able to engage in a mature, adult conversation. My bad.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 18, 2017, 03:42:11 PM

Sorry, I mistook you for someone who might be able to engage in a mature, adult conversation. My bad.
Before you continue whining like a spoiled brat, you need to be reminded that its YOU that has to answer questions, not demand answers.  The burden of proof weighs completely on your shoulders, not mine. You are the one challenging that which is accepted to be true by the unanimous consensus. 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 18, 2017, 04:09:02 PM
Before you continue whining like a spoiled brat, you need to be reminded that its YOU that has to answer questions, not demand answers.  The burden of proof weighs completely on your shoulders, not mine. You are the one challenging that which is accepted to be true by the unanimous consensus.
God has revealed to us that the earth is flat; you need to convert.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: kiwiboy on September 18, 2017, 04:09:59 PM
Before you continue whining like a spoiled brat, you need to be reminded that its YOU that has to answer questions, not demand answers.  The burden of proof weighs completely on your shoulders, not mine. You are the one challenging that which is accepted to be true by the unanimous consensus.


You might save yourself a lot of unnecessary anxiety if you stop presuming that the case for the flat earth is not scientific, and that those who espouse it are stupid. The latter is a basic rule for civil discussion.

Once you can do this, then I will say that in fact on the point you made, you are wrong. Very simple reasons:

1. Because truth is above consensus ( I am sure you admit this in theory)

2. Because the argument that the earth is round is based on a faulty premise. That there is curvature. We use scientific evidence to show this is not the case. Thus everything which is based on this presumption falls down like a house built on sand.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 18, 2017, 04:49:45 PM
1. Because truth is above consensus ( I am sure you admit this in theory)
Playing mind games? What's your point here?

Quote
2. Because the argument that the earth is round is based on a faulty premise. 
Okay, could you please present to us a precise analysis of ALL fallacies contained within the said premise...

*Refrain from abusing the Sacredness of passages of Holy Writ with careless and personal interpretations.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 18, 2017, 05:17:00 PM
God has revealed to us that the earth is flat; you need to convert.
.
Convert to what, Mohammadism? Flat-earthism is taught in the Koran, not in the Bible.
.
Where did you get that, from the Koran? You sound just like a Moslem.
.
(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Z3sRlOOOQFQ%2FWU-_YWwLjEI%2FAAAAAAABVEQ%2F9bjnPdulen0OnLq--h6FMXywmZV5gCo3QCLcBGAs%2Fs1600%2FFlat%252BEarth%252Bin%252BKoran%252Band%252BBible.jpg&sp=fcefbb5b33eccf000b6b1768bb412f6f)
.
(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-bDLKqCCZtt8%2FVRuifm4cquI%2FAAAAAAAAAU0%2FELqsCK-rS_4%2Fs1600%2F10408962_1025348134159848_1413748501032773906_n.jpg&sp=95981524316cf8a1e2de70d174a01e0f)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 18, 2017, 05:18:21 PM
.
Flat-earth is not scientific.
.
Flat-earthers are stupid.
.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 18, 2017, 06:15:25 PM
.
Flat-earth is not scientific.
.
Flat-earthers are stupid.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DbaPAuVMy0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DbaPAuVMy0)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 18, 2017, 06:55:02 PM
Before you continue whining like a spoiled brat, you need to be reminded that its YOU that has to answer questions, not demand answers.  The burden of proof weighs completely on your shoulders, not mine. You are the one challenging that which is accepted to be true by the unanimous consensus.
(emph. and layout via poster)

"41. The authority of the learned in matters relating to their specialties demands our prudent assent.

The authority of the savant in his peculiar domain, should be respected by the unlearned, since he who by the culture of his mind is fitted to apprehend a truth may impose it on him who could not of himself attain to its knowledge. But as the learned themselves are competent to examine the particular truths in question, they should judge the authority of other scientists by their own reason. Hence we may formulate the following three rules :
1. The authority of scientists should be accepted so long as there is no reasonable ground to believe it false or to suspect it; it should be rejected, if it is known to be false ;
2. Every scientist is a competent judge only in the science of which he is master;
3. One scientist may accept the affirmations of another, when he cannot himself ascertain their truth or demonstrate their falsity;* yet he may reject them if the opposite arguments are of equal weight."
* For a clear exposition of the harmony between the positive results of science and the truths of faith, consult Apologia de la Foi Chretienne."

f/ "ELEMENTARY COURSE OF CHRISTIAN PHILOSOPHY BASED ON THE PRINCIPLES OF The Best Scholastic Authors"  by L. de Poissy,  pp. 136-137  (P. O'Shea 1893)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Tradplorable on September 18, 2017, 07:08:44 PM

"41. The authority of the learned in matters relating to their specialties demands our prudent assent.


Luckily, one does not need to be "learned" to ascertain the shape of the earth. 
.
.
All one needs to do is go to the top of a building only a few stories tall, or a hill of some height, or ride in an airplane 6 miles up to see that there is no curvature whatsoever.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 18, 2017, 07:11:45 PM
"41. The authority of the learned in matters relating to their specialties demands our prudent assent."
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 18, 2017, 07:15:50 PM
"41. The authority of the learned in matters relating to their specialties demands our prudent assent."
I have authority based on the simple fact I have seen the Flat Earth Horizon many times. :)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 18, 2017, 07:26:09 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13P9Q8IvL7I
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 18, 2017, 07:38:05 PM
"41. The authority of the learned in matters relating to their specialties demands our prudent assent."
Thanks for your input DZ...
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c2/b7/43/c2b7439c9a58bcd9960913eb58ee0d12--gk-chesterton-gk-chesterton-quotes.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 18, 2017, 09:35:19 PM
.
Convert to what, Mohammadism? Flat-earthism is taught in the Koran, not in the Bible.
.
Where did you get that, from the Koran? You sound just like a Moslem.
.
(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-Z3sRlOOOQFQ%2FWU-_YWwLjEI%2FAAAAAAABVEQ%2F9bjnPdulen0OnLq--h6FMXywmZV5gCo3QCLcBGAs%2Fs1600%2FFlat%252BEarth%252Bin%252BKoran%252Band%252BBible.jpg&sp=fcefbb5b33eccf000b6b1768bb412f6f)
.
(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-bDLKqCCZtt8%2FVRuifm4cquI%2FAAAAAAAAAU0%2FELqsCK-rS_4%2Fs1600%2F10408962_1025348134159848_1413748501032773906_n.jpg&sp=95981524316cf8a1e2de70d174a01e0f)
.
It's so easy to see when a post is effective because then two or more flat-earthers reply in a few minutes when previously they had ignored the thread for two or three days.
.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: kiwiboy on September 19, 2017, 04:25:34 AM
.
Flat-earth is not scientific.
.
Flat-earthers are stupid.
.


In a strange kind of way Neil, I have to thank you for sending so many people our way. Your uncharitable behavior is showing the true fruits of globalism, and getting many people to question the consensus.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: kiwiboy on September 19, 2017, 05:16:12 AM
Playing mind games? What's your point here?
Okay, could you please present to us a precise analysis of ALL fallacies contained within the said premise...

*Refrain from abusing the Sacredness of passages of Holy Writ with careless and personal interpretations.


Not playing any mind games. It is simple logic.

Flat earth argument is based on science principally.

There is no need to present the fallacies that follow as a result of saying the earth has curvature. It should be obvious. But I will do so anyway.

The entire idea that there is a universe of stars billions of miles across is one error that follows. The notion that the earth goes around the sun is another. Gravity, with all its inconsistencies is another.

Also we have all pseudo science relating to space travel. Satellites which float above us without baloon support is one more. This list goes on and on. I don't have time to write all of them. Sorry. Just start investigating the flat earth for yourself and and it will start falling into place.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 19, 2017, 01:29:56 PM

In a strange kind of way Neil, I have to thank you for sending so many people our way. Your uncharitable behavior is showing the true fruits of globalism, and getting many people to question the consensus.
.
You're welcome. It's so nice to be appreciated. With enemies like you, who needs friends?
.
Your example of charity and graciously good manners is a model for all flat-earthers to emulate.
.
And your ability to grasp simple concepts is nothing short of amazing.
.
Concepts like how a "flat-earth" moon above Australia, illuminated by a sun over Africa can be seen in Australia as a full moon:
.
(https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmetrouk2.files.wordpress.com%2F2017%2F02%2Fflat-earth-1.jpg%3Fquality%3D80%26amp%3Bstrip%3Dall&sp=28e5994722f7b2ee018ed57ba9b96a81)
.
The world owes you a debt of gratitude for being able to answer this simple question in your own simple way.
.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Meg on September 19, 2017, 02:10:22 PM
I think that most traditional Catholics believe that the Miracle of the Sun did occur at Fatima, which Our Lady pointed to as proof of her appearance from Heaven. Here's one account of the event, from an eye-witness who observed the Miracle of the Sun:

"Everybody stood still and quiet.....At a certain point, the sun stopped its play of light and then started dancing until it seemed to loosen itself from the skies and fall upon the people. It was a moment of terrible suspense."

                                                               (The True Story of Fatima by John De Marchi I.M.C.)

What I find interesting is that if the sun were truly 93,000,000 miles from earth, how could the sun then be loosened from the Heaven, and appear larger as if falling down toward the People?

The sun would need to be loosened and made to travel a great distance to appear closer to earth as it did at Fatima, if it were really that far away. It makes more sense that the sun is much closer than what the modern scientists tell us it is.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 19, 2017, 02:26:46 PM
What I find interesting is that if the sun were truly 93,000,000 miles from earth, how could the sun then be loosened from the Heaven, and appear larger as if falling down toward the People?

The sun would need to be loosened and made to travel a great distance to appear closer to earth as it did at Fatima, if it were really that far away. It makes more sense that the sun is much closer than what the modern scientists tell us it is.
Ahhh.... never thought of an Omnipotent  God being limited before... hmmm...

That explains why the entire universe must be  limited to a finite premise...
(http://www.newgeography.com/files/imagecache/Chart_Story_Inset/iStock_000006190604XSmall.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Meg on September 19, 2017, 02:32:27 PM
Ahhh.... never thought of an Omnipotent  God being limited before... hmmm...

That explains why the entire universe must be  limited to a finite premise...
(http://www.newgeography.com/files/imagecache/Chart_Story_Inset/iStock_000006190604XSmall.jpg)

I'm not saying that God cannot do that. But, can you estimate how many millions of miles the sun would have to travel out of its supposed orbit in order to appear closer to the earth? 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 19, 2017, 02:33:24 PM

Not playing any mind games. It is simple logic.

Flat earth argument is based on science principally.

There is no need to present the fallacies that follow as a result of saying the earth has curvature. It should be obvious. But I will do so anyway.

The entire idea that there is a universe of stars billions of miles across is one error that follows. The notion that the earth goes around the sun is another. Gravity, with all its inconsistencies is another.

Also we have all pseudo science relating to space travel. Satellites which float above us without baloon support is one more. This list goes on and on. I don't have time to write all of them. Sorry. Just start investigating the flat earth for yourself and and it will start falling into place.
Sorry kiwi, you didn't provide a shred of evidence. 

Let's get back to basics...


(emph. and layout via poster)

"41. The authority of the learned in matters relating to their specialties demands our prudent assent.

The authority of the savant in his peculiar domain, should be respected by the unlearned, since he who by the culture of his mind is fitted to apprehend a truth may impose it on him who could not of himself attain to its knowledge. But as the learned themselves are competent to examine the particular truths in question, they should judge the authority of other scientists by their own reason. Hence we may formulate the following three rules :
1. The authority of scientists should be accepted so long as there is no reasonable ground to believe it false or to suspect it; it should be rejected, if it is known to be false ;
2. Every scientist is a competent judge only in the science of which he is master;
3. One scientist may accept the affirmations of another, when he cannot himself ascertain their truth or demonstrate their falsity;* yet he may reject them if the opposite arguments are of equal weight."
* For a clear exposition of the harmony between the positive results of science and the truths of faith, consult Apologia de la Foi Chretienne."

f/ "ELEMENTARY COURSE OF CHRISTIAN PHILOSOPHY BASED ON THE PRINCIPLES OF The Best Scholastic Authors"  by L. de Poissy,  pp. 136-137  (P. O'Shea 1893)
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 19, 2017, 02:37:43 PM
I'm not saying that God cannot do that. But, can you estimate how many millions of miles the sun would have to travel out of its supposed orbit in order to appear closer to the earth?
mir·a·cle
ˈmirək(ə)l/
noun

Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Meg on September 19, 2017, 02:39:45 PM
mir·a·cle
ˈmirək(ə)l/
noun

  • a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.

Okay....but how many millions of miles would you estimate that God would have to move the sun in order for it to appear so close to the earth?
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 19, 2017, 02:43:11 PM
Okay....but how many millions of miles would you estimate that God would have to move the sun in order for it to appear so close to the earth?
Well, I wasn't there... so I can't say just how close it may have come to the earth. But, 93,000,000 miles if He had to...
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Meg on September 19, 2017, 02:51:04 PM
Well, I wasn't there... so I can't say just how close it may have come to the earth. But, 93,000,000 miles if He had to...

Alright. I estimate (rather unscientifically) that if the sun were really 93,000,000 miles away, God would have to move it at least half that distance, and rather quickly. Seems like an extreme measure to move the sun millions of miles toward to the earth, and then back again, in a quick manner. But God could do it, of course. It just seems unlikely.

IMO, it makes more sense that the sun is closer to the earth than 93,000,000 miles away. A lot closer. Just like the Ancient Hebrews believed, long ago, based on Scripture. 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 19, 2017, 03:00:00 PM
I find it telling that flat-earthers have made no response to your challenge.
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You invited them to do a thought experiment, but they cannot, because they can't think.
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The challenge is simple and the silence in response is self-explanatory.
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Flat-earthers have no response, except to jump topic to an unrelated non-sequitur.
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They have also stepped around my presentation of HF radio waves transmitted between two-way radios beyond the horizon like it was doggy doo-doo on the sidewalk. 




Now how about explaining away this...

What is GPS?(http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/img/hero-what-is-gps.jpg)
The Global Positioning System (GPS) is a satellite-based navigation system made up of at least 24 satellites. GPS works in any weather conditions, anywhere in the world, 24 hours a day, with no subscription fees or setup charges. The U.S. Department of Defense (USDOD) originally put the satellites into orbit for military use, but they were made available for civilian use in the 1980s.
How GPS works
GPS satellites circle the Earth twice a day in a precise orbit. Each satellite transmits a unique signal and orbital parameters that allow GPS devices to decode and compute the precise location of the satellite. GPS receivers use this information and trilateration to calculate a user's exact location. Essentially, the GPS receiver measures the distance to each satellite by the amount of time it takes to receive a transmitted signal. With distance measurements from a few more satellites, the receiver can determine a user's position and display it electronically to measure your running route (https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/Forerunner/wearabletech/wearables/c10001-c10002-bBRAND481-p1.html?sorter=featuredProducts-desc), map a golf course (https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into-sports/golfing/cIntoSports-cGolfing-p1.html), find a way home (https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/cOnTheRoad-p1.html) or adventure anywhere (https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into-sports/handheld/cIntoSports-c10341-p1.html).
(http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/img/product-comp.jpg)
To calculate your 2-D position (latitude and longitude) and track movement, a GPS receiver must be locked on to the signal of at least 3 satellites. With 4 or more satellites in view, the receiver can determine your 3-D position (latitude, longitude and altitude). Generally, a GPS receiver will track 8 or more satellites, but that depends on the time of day and where you are on the earth. Some devices can do all of that from your wrist (https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/f%C4%93nix/wearabletech/wearables/c10001-c10002-bBRAND473-p1.html?sorter=featuredProducts-desc).
Once your position has been determined, the GPS unit can calculate other information, such as:

[size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
How accurate is GPS?
Today's GPS receivers are extremely accurate, thanks to their parallel multi-channel design. Our receivers are quick to lock onto satellites when first turned on. They maintain a tracking lock in dense tree-cover or in urban settings with tall buildings. Certain atmospheric factors and other error sources can affect the accuracy of GPS receivers. Garmin GPS receivers are typically accurate to within 10 meters. Accuracy is even better on the water (https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/STRIKER/on-the-water/fishfinders/cOnTheWater-cFishfinders-bBRAND10680-p1.html?sorter=featuredProducts-desc).
Some Garmin GPS receiver accuracy is improved with WAAS (http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html) (Wide Area Augmentation System). This capability can improve accuracy to better than 3 meters, by providing corrections to the atmosphere. No additional equipment or fees are required to take advantage of WAAS satellites. Users can also get better accuracy with Differential GPS (DGPS), which corrects GPS distances to within an average of 1 to 3 meters. The U.S. Coast Guard operates the most common DGPS correction service, consisting of a network of towers that receive GPS signals and transmit a corrected signal by beacon transmitters. In order to get the corrected signal, users must have a differential beacon receiver and beacon antenna in addition to their GPS.
Other GPS Systems
There are other similar systems to GPS in the world, which are all classified as the Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS). GLONASS is a satellite constellation system built by Russia. The European Space Agency is creating Galileo, while China is creating BeiDou. Most Garmin receivers track both GLONASS and GPS, and some even track BeiDou. You can expect a more reliable solution when you track more satellites. You could be tracking nearly 20 with newer Garmin products.
The GPS Satellite System
The 31 satellites that currently make up the GPS space segment are orbiting the earth about 12,000 miles above us. These satellites are constantly moving, making two complete orbits in less than 24 hours. They travel at speeds of roughly 7,000 miles an hour. Small rocket boosters keep each satellite flying on the correct path.
Here are some other interesting facts about the GPS satellites:[/font][/size]
[size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
What's the signal?
GPS satellites transmit at least 2 low-power radio signals. The signals travel by line of sight, meaning they will pass through clouds, glass and plastic but will not go through most solid objects, such as buildings and mountains. However, modern receivers are more sensitive and can usually track through houses.
A GPS signal contains 3 different types of information:[/font][/size]
[size={defaultattr}][font={defaultattr}]
GPS Signal Errors Sources
Factors that can affect GPS signal and accuracy include the following:[/font][/size]


Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 19, 2017, 03:05:08 PM

IMO, it makes more sense that the sun is closer to the earth than 93,000,000 miles away. A lot closer. Just like the Ancient Hebrews believed, long ago, based on Scripture.
It just may be closer... but I'm going to need solid evidence to convince me otherwise. I try not to be guided by emotion but rather those things which don't contradict reason... common-sense.
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Meg on September 19, 2017, 03:30:46 PM
It just may be closer... but I'm going to need solid evidence to convince me otherwise. I try not to be guided by emotion but rather those things which don't contradict reason... common-sense.

You are of course quite right to say that you try not be guided by emotion but rather by those things which do not contradict reason....common sense. I agree. 

Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: St Ignatius on September 19, 2017, 03:36:05 PM
You are of course quite right to say that you try not be guided by emotion but rather by those things which do not contradict reason....common sense. I agree.
Well thank you Meg... now my other duties call...
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 19, 2017, 03:58:15 PM
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Does someone using GPS and relying on its accuracy to keep them from getting lost (personal safety, matter of life and death) have to BELIEVE in GPS satellites before the system can work?
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Or can you disbelieve in satellites and still use GPS to save your life?
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Similarly, did someone have to believe in miracles in order to watch the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima?
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Were there any non-believers at Fatima who could not see the miracle, or were there non-believers who could see it happening?
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Were there any Nietzschean skeptics who stood there saying, "Sun? What sun? I don't see any sun!" 
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When Our Lord performed miracles, were the miracles only knowable and apparent to believers, and invisible to non-believers?
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When He raised Lazarus from the dead, were non-believers in the crowd unable to see Lazarus walking out of the tomb?
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When He multiplied the loaves and fishes, did non-believers in the crowd have nothing to eat and could they not see the scraps being collected?
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When the man born blind was cured and could see, were the ancients of the people who questioned him unable to observe him with normal sight -- did he still appear to them as a blind man, or did he appear to them as a man now able to see?
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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 19, 2017, 04:11:20 PM
I think that most traditional Catholics believe that the Miracle of the Sun did occur at Fatima, which Our Lady pointed to as proof of her appearance from Heaven. Here's one account of the event, from an eye-witness who observed the Miracle of the Sun:

"Everybody stood still and quiet.....At a certain point, the sun stopped its play of light and then started dancing until it seemed to loosen itself from the skies and fall upon the people. It was a moment of terrible suspense."

                                                               (The True Story of Fatima by John De Marchi I.M.C.)

What I find interesting is that if the sun were truly 93,000,000 miles from earth, how could the sun then be loosened from the Heaven, and appear larger as if falling down toward the People?

The sun would need to be loosened and made to travel a great distance to appear closer to earth as it did at Fatima, if it were really that far away. It makes more sense that the sun is much closer than what the modern scientists tell us it is.
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I know a man who is a Communist atheist. When I told him about the Miracle of the Sun, his response was, "The sun did not come careening toward the earth. That's nonsense."
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I met a man who told me when we were having a conversation about perception, "What chandelier? I don't see any chandelier." We were standing in a classical ballroom in the evening, with an enormous chandelier in the center of the huge domed ceiling. It was the only light source in the whole room.
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God never commanded us to make sense out of His miracles. He never said that you have to rationalize them or else you have no faith. God has not given us orders to question His power, and has never made it a prerequisite of our reception of grace.
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On the contrary, He has asked us where we were when He laid the foundations of the world, and He has said He would utter things never heard since those foundations were laid.
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Do you suppose there might be any other things never heard since the foundations of the world? 
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Or has God suddenly run out of surprises?
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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 19, 2017, 04:19:21 PM




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Translated, this means 92,955,807 miles away, which is less than 93 million miles away.
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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 19, 2017, 04:24:30 PM
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Is the sun 93 million miles away? Nope. It's less than that: 92 million, 9 hundred fifty-five thousand, 8 hundred and seven miles away.
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Translated, this means 92,955,807 miles away, which is less than 93 million miles away.
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Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Meg on September 19, 2017, 04:47:51 PM

God never commanded us to make sense out of His miracles. He never said that you have to rationalize them or else you have no faith. God has not given us orders to question His power, and has never made it a prerequisite of our reception of grace.
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On the contrary, He has asked us where we were when He laid the foundations of the world, and He has said He would utter things never heard since those foundations were laid.
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Really? If we are not supposed to make sense out of miracles, then how does the Catholic Church determine if an event is miraculous (supernatural) or not, so that the faithful know that they may consider it a miracle? 
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 19, 2017, 05:38:23 PM
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Is the sun 93 million miles away? Nope. It's less than that: 92 million, 9 hundred fifty-five thousand, 8 hundred and seven miles away.
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The sun is much closer than 92 million, 9 hundred fifty-five thousand, 8 hundred and seven miles away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNpw70tEzwI&t=490s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNpw70tEzwI&t=490s)

Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: kiwiboy on September 20, 2017, 08:25:20 AM
Sorry kiwi, you didn't provide a shred of evidence.

Let's get back to basics...


Lol!

Its you who is providing no evidence of having researched the issue. There is lots, but you have been too lazy to use google. I appreciate it can be very burdensome on the fingers, but do try...

Here, to help you

http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/f9-flat-earth-proofs
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 20, 2017, 09:50:13 AM

Lol!

Its you who is providing no evidence of having researched the issue. There is lots, but you have been too lazy to use google. I appreciate it can be very burdensome on the fingers, but do try...

Here, to help you

http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/f9-flat-earth-proofs
"If you're racing an ass in the Derby, you may as well run it yourself."

Anon
Title: Re: Is the Sun 93,000,000 mi away? Nope.
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 21, 2017, 02:40:12 PM
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                                                  Is the Sun 93,000,000 miles away? Nope.
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                            The sun is 92,955,807 miles away, which is less than 93 million miles away.
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The distance from the earth to the sun has been a matter of controversy for thousands of years, but only in our present age have there been skeptics (like Nietzscheans) who prescind from all man's inventory of improved methods over the centuries and proclaim it is untrue, without any evidence for same, and without any specific replacement for the data and the knowledge man has acquired during these many centuries, and without any suggestions for how to obtain or verify such replacements. They say, "We are still studying the issue" but they've already come up with their conclusion, therefore, if they were honest, they would say, "We have already decided what the outcome of our study will be and we have already decided what is important, and the specific distance from the earth to the sun is unimportant compared to our refusal to accept the product of recent centuries of others' study, for our own pertinacious will to reject same out of hand is much more important to us." These "flat-earthers" do not agree on how far they think the sun really is from earth, nor do they agree on what constitutes "earth" in the first place. It is incorrect to say they can't agree on a method for measuring the distance to the sun because they are manifestly unconcerned with developing their own method and no such concern appears to be soon in coming. They simply don't care about that. They cannot describe the depth of the earth's substance at any point of the earth's surface, nor can they provide a specific quantity for the distance from the sun to the moon at any time of day, for any day whatsoever. How these curiously unscientific loose cannons can believe they are worth anyone's attention is an open question.
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