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Author Topic: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers  (Read 4450 times)

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Offline victim of the sspx

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Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2018, 08:14:02 PM »
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  • Science has discovered that the horizon is horizontal.
    What's that supposed to mean?
    The sum of scientific knowledge is the result of tests.
    That is why it is imperical. It is a hierarchy of relevant truth and facts that is exercises imperial dominion over various facets of life. Anyone who doubts science and clings to an interpretation of scriptures from any religion is... well i dont know the word for such a person. Yeah Id be called an apostate or heretic and burned if this was 600 years ago, but you can thank people with an open mind for your computer and cell phones and electricity and medicine etc. Or are they products of the devil as well?
    Who knows. I gave up on people like this a long time ago when I had my bad experiences.
    I dont have blind obedience. Ask me back then I would have entertained various stupid fringe beliefs.
    Ask me now and I dont bother. And it is not because of the devil. It is because there is something wrong with you and your beliefs if you cant question your own self assumed perfection and superiority. I give up

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #16 on: January 21, 2018, 08:35:07 PM »
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  • What's that supposed to mean?
    The sum of scientific knowledge is the result of tests.
    That is why it is imperical. It is a hierarchy of relevant truth and facts that is exercises imperial dominion over various facets of life. Anyone who doubts science and clings to an interpretation of scriptures from any religion is... well i dont know the word for such a person. Yeah Id be called an apostate or heretic and burned if this was 600 years ago, but you can thank people with an open mind for your computer and cell phones and electricity and medicine etc. Or are they products of the devil as well?
    Who knows. I gave up on people like this a long time ago when I had my bad experiences.
    I dont have blind obedience. Ask me back then I would have entertained various stupid fringe beliefs.
    Ask me now and I dont bother. And it is not because of the devil. It is because there is something wrong with you and your beliefs if you cant question your own self assumed perfection and superiority. I give up
    I have questioned my beliefs, and I have found out that the horizon is horizontal. Do you have any evidence the horizon is not by its very definition, horizontal?


    Offline victim of the sspx

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #17 on: January 21, 2018, 08:40:29 PM »
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  • I have questioned my beliefs, and I have found out that the horizon is horizontal. Do you have any evidence the horizon is not by its very definition, horizontal?
    No Im just gonna abstain from this topic I think.
    If you ask me, I leave the question to scientists in the relevant field.
    *Opens door and lets himself out*

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #18 on: January 22, 2018, 07:46:03 AM »
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  • What's that supposed to mean?
    The sum of scientific knowledge is the result of tests.
    That is why it is imperical. It is a hierarchy of relevant truth and facts that is exercises imperial dominion over various facets of life. Anyone who doubts science and clings to an interpretation of scriptures from any religion is... well i dont know the word for such a person. Yeah Id be called an apostate or heretic and burned if this was 600 years ago, but you can thank people with an open mind for your computer and cell phones and electricity and medicine etc. Or are they products of the devil as well?
    Who knows. I gave up on people like this a long time ago when I had my bad experiences.
    I dont have blind obedience. Ask me back then I would have entertained various stupid fringe beliefs.
    Ask me now and I dont bother. And it is not because of the devil. It is because there is something wrong with you and your beliefs if you cant question your own self assumed perfection and superiority. I give up
    You would not have had any trouble from the Church 600 years ago for believing that the earth is a globe.  That was the normal belief of educated people then. I hope you understand that these flat-earthers do not represent Catholic thought on this subject.  The Catholic Church has always supported learning and science.  We would not have science as we know it without the Church, since many important men in the history of science were devout Catholics. 

    In the last few centuries, anti-Catholic forces have tried to create a conflict between faith and science.  And unfortunately there are people who are so foolish as to believe the lie that science disproves God.  They have accepted a distorted view of science, since, of course, it does no such thing.  Ideally, science is a search for truth about the physical world.  The truths it discovers are at the service of faith and compatible with it.

    The flat-earthers here rightly reject the idea that science can disprove God, but do not realize that these claims are made for a travesty of science.  They have bought into the lie that science opposes faith and so, commendably enough, choose faith.  But it would be more commendable if they recognized the lie.

    To make matters worse, they think that interpreting Scripture as they do is some sort of defence of the faith against science, but they violate the principles taught throughout the history of the Church on how to interpret Scripture. This is obviously very wrong.

    We can't blame Catholicism for the nonsense you see on this subforum.  These people are not following Catholic teaching.  But, do not be too harsh on them.  They do mean well.

    (P.S.  I recommend not even attempting to have a rational discussion with Truth is Eternal.)

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #19 on: January 22, 2018, 11:32:28 AM »
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  • Science has discovered that the horizon is horizontal.

    There is not even a slight curve when we view the horizon.

    The fact that we can actually see, for instance, islands which are at a great distance out at sea shows that the earth is not a globe. Those islands should be below the level of observation, if the earth were a globe, but they are not.

    As I have mentioned before, when my sons and I visited the Island of Berneray in the year 2002, in the Western Isles of Scotland, we could see the Island of St. Kilda which is a distance of about 48 miles from Berneray. If the earth were a globe, we would not have been able to see St. Kilda at all. And yet we could see it clearly.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #20 on: January 22, 2018, 12:04:27 PM »
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  • There is not even a slight curve when we view the horizon.

    The fact that we can actually see, for instance, islands which are at a great distance out at sea shows that the earth is not a globe. Those islands should be below the level of observation, if the earth were a globe, but they are not.

    As I have mentioned before, when my sons and I visited the Island of Berneray in the year 2002, in the Western Isles of Scotland, we could see the Island of St. Kilda which is a distance of about 48 miles from Berneray. If the earth were a globe, we would not have been able to see St. Kilda at all. And yet we could see it clearly.

    I find some of the lighthouse observations very interesting as well.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #21 on: January 22, 2018, 12:08:34 PM »
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  • I find some of the lighthouse observations very interesting as well.

    Can you describe some of those observations? I would be interested in knowing about them. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #22 on: January 22, 2018, 12:26:30 PM »
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  • Can you describe some of those observations? I would be interested in knowing about them.

    I'm talking about this kind of thing --
    https://aplanetruth.info/2015/03/29/22-is-the-earth-a-sphere-lighthouses-and-distant-lands/

    This makes sense to me, so I keep an open mind about flat earth.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #23 on: January 22, 2018, 12:29:18 PM »
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  • Debunkers claim that, for lighthouses, it's due to atmospheric refraction or something.

    But how about this?

    Quote
    Another great example is the Notre Dame Antwerp spire standing 403 feet high from the foot of the tower with Strasburg measuring 468 feet above sea level. With the aid of a telescope, ships can be distinguished on the horizon and captains declare they can see the cathedral spire from an amazing 150 miles away. If the Earth were a globe, however, at that distance the spire should be an entire mile, 5,280 feet below the horizon!

    Either someoine is lying (author of this piece or the captains who reported this) ... or else the earth cannot be a globe.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #24 on: January 22, 2018, 12:47:28 PM »
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  • I'm talking about this kind of thing --
    https://aplanetruth.info/2015/03/29/22-is-the-earth-a-sphere-lighthouses-and-distant-lands/

    This makes sense to me, so I keep an open mind about flat earth.

    I agree; it does make sense.

    I have not seen those particular examples before, but they are quite compelling, and they do provide very good evidence that the earth is not a globe. 

    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #25 on: January 22, 2018, 01:04:58 PM »
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  • Another great example is the Notre Dame Antwerp spire standing 403 feet high from the foot of the tower with Strasburg measuring 468 feet above sea level.  With the aid of a telescope, ships can be distinguished on the horizon and captains declare they can see the cathedral spire from an amazing 150 miles away.  If the Earth were a globe, however, at that distance the spire should be an entire mile, 5,280 feet below the horizon.  Engineers for railways and canals agree that earth cannot be a globe:

    Engineer, W. Winckler was published in the Earth Review regarding the Earth’s supposed curvature, stating, “As an engineer of many years standing, I saw that this absurd allowance is only permitted in school books. No engineer would dream of allowing anything of the kind. I have projected many miles of railways and many more of canals and the allowance has not even been thought of, much less allowed for. This allowance for curvature means this - that it is 8” for the first mile of a canal, and increasing at the ratio by the square of the distance in miles; thus a small navigable canal for boats, say 30 miles long, will have, by the above rule an allowance for curvature of 600 feet. Think of that and then please credit engineers as not being quite such fools. Nothing of the sort is allowed. We no more think of allowing 600 feet for a line of 30 miles of railway or canal, than of wasting our time trying to square the circle”


    J.C. Bourne in his book, “The History of the Great Western Railway” stated that the entire original English railroad, more than 118 miles long, that the whole line with the exception of the inclined planes, may be regarded practically as level.  The British Parliament Session in 1862 that approved its construction  recorded in Order No. 44 for the proposed railway, “That the section be drawn to the same HORIZONTAL scale as the plan, and to a vertical scale of not less than one inch to every one hundred feet, and shall show the surface of the ground marked on the plan, the intended level of the proposed work, the height of every embankment, and the depth of every cutting, and a DATUM HORIZONTAL LINE which shall be the same throughout the whole length of the work.


    Early in 1898 I met Mr. Hughes, chief officer of the steamer ‘City of Lincoln.’  This gentleman told me he had projected thousands of miles of level railway in South America, and never heard of any allowance for curvature being made.  On one occasion he surveyed over one thousand miles of railway which was a perfect straight line all the way.  It is well known that in the Argentine Republic and other parts of South America, there are railways thousands of miles long without curve or gradient.  In projecting railways, the world is acknowledged to be a plane, and if it were a globe the rules of projection have yet to be discovered.  Level railways prove a level world, to the utter confusion of the globular school of impractical men with high salaries and little brains.”  -Thomas Winship, “Zetetic Cosmogeny” (109)


    Another Surveyor and Engineer of thirty years wrote to the Birmingham Weekly Mercury, Feb. 15th, 1890 stating, “I am thoroughly acquainted with the theory and practice of civil engineering. However bigoted some of our professors may be in the theory of surveying according to the prescribed rules, yet it is well known amongst us that such theoretical measurements are INCAPABLE OF ANY PRACTICAL ILLUSTRATION.  All our locomotives are designed to run on what may be regarded as TRUE LEVELS or FLATS.  There are, of course, partial inclines or gradients here and there, but they are always accurately defined and must be carefully traversed.  But anything approaching to eight inches in the mile, increasing as the square of the distance, COULD NOT BE WORKED BY ANY ENGINE THAT WAS EVER YET CONSTRUCTED.  Taking one station with another all over England and Scotland, it may be stated that all the platforms are ON THE SAME RELATIVE LEVEL.  The distance between Eastern and Western coasts of England may be set down as 300 miles.  If the prescribed curvature was indeed as represented, the central stations at Rugby or Warwick ought to be close upon three miles higher than a chord drawn from the two extremities.  If such was the case there is not a driver or stoker within the Kingdom that would be found to take charge of the train.  We can only laugh at those of your readers who seriously give us credit for such venturesome exploits, as running trains round spherical curves. Horizontal curves on levels are dangerous enough, vertical curves would be a thousand times worse, and with our rolling stock constructed as at present physically impossible.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #26 on: January 22, 2018, 02:34:53 PM »
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  • Debunkers claim that, for lighthouses, it's due to atmospheric refraction or something.

    But how about this?

    Either someoine is lying (author of this piece or the captains who reported this) ... or else the earth cannot be a globe.
    There are several historical reports of boats sighting each other at a range of 150-200 miles.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #27 on: January 29, 2018, 12:23:55 AM »
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  • The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government "space agencies" show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.


    The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.



    The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any depiction of a Theodolite shooting a level line of sight from a promontory of even a few hundred feet toward the horizon which shows the horizon "rising to the level of the viewer" as flat-earthers keep chanting without any evidence.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be an intelligible explanation for why the full moon faces with its sun-illuminated face toward the earth from high in the sky, from the flat-earth hypothesis which places the sun above a "flat" disc earth at nearly 90 degrees to the line of the moon's light as viewed from anywhere on planet earth.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any "flat" earth plausible geometry describing how a quarter moon makes the angle it does to the sun (while insisting it and the moon are some 3 thousand miles above the earth) twice each month for all to see. 
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any reasonable excuse for the fact that a ship or plane traveling due east (or due west) along the equator does not have to turn right (starboard) or left (port) in order to remain on the equator and due east (or west as the case may be).
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any "flat" earth demonstration of WHY two parallel courses once embarked will in due time collide with each other on the real earth, since they don't do that on the "flat" earth model.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any reasonable "flat" earth explanation for how any weighted object in a vacuum will consistently be pulled in a perpendicular direction from the horizon line regardless of where on the real earth the experiment is conducted.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be an explanation for the numerous flights of aircraft that pass over or close to Antarctica and traverse a distance too short to be plotted on a "flat" earth model, when many pilots, co-pilots and navigators who routinely fly such courses have and will continue to attest.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any honest video showing the horizon unable to conceal distant objects beyond the curvature of the earth, even while the refraction of light through the water vapor above a body of water makes it appear otherwise, since the progressive foreshortening of such objects belies the distortion caused by the refraction.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be a seagoing navigator using a sextant and sea charts who can accurately plot his course over a great distance overseas, when he presumes the earth is "flat."
    .
    I can go on.............
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #28 on: January 29, 2018, 06:21:21 AM »
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  • .
    There never has been and there never will be any depiction of a Theodolite shooting a level line of sight from a promontory of even a few hundred feet toward the horizon which shows the horizon "rising to the level of the viewer" as flat-earthers keep chanting without any evidence.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be an intelligible explanation for why the full moon faces with its sun-illuminated face toward the earth from high in the sky, from the flat-earth hypothesis which places the sun above a "flat" disc earth at nearly 90 degrees to the line of the moon's light as viewed from anywhere on planet earth.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any "flat" earth plausible geometry describing how a quarter moon makes the angle it does to the sun (while insisting it and the moon are some 3 thousand miles above the earth) twice each month for all to see.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any reasonable excuse for the fact that a ship or plane traveling due east (or due west) along the equator does not have to turn right (starboard) or left (port) in order to remain on the equator and due east (or west as the case may be).
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any "flat" earth demonstration of WHY two parallel courses once embarked will in due time collide with each other on the real earth, since they don't do that on the "flat" earth model.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any reasonable "flat" earth explanation for how any weighted object in a vacuum will consistently be pulled in a perpendicular direction from the horizon line regardless of where on the real earth the experiment is conducted.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be an explanation for the numerous flights of aircraft that pass over or close to Antarctica and traverse a distance too short to be plotted on a "flat" earth model, when many pilots, co-pilots and navigators who routinely fly such courses have and will continue to attest.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be any honest video showing the horizon unable to conceal distant objects beyond the curvature of the earth, even while the refraction of light through the water vapor above a body of water makes it appear otherwise, since the progressive foreshortening of such objects belies the distortion caused by the refraction.
    .
    There never has been and there never will be a seagoing navigator using a sextant and sea charts who can accurately plot his course over a great distance overseas, when he presumes the earth is "flat."
    .
    I can go on.............
    .
    While this is all true enough and worth posting once, responding to TiE's spam-like repeated message with your own legitimizes what he is doing.  Please take the high road, Neil.  

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Interest to both Flat Earthers and Globe Earthers
    « Reply #29 on: January 29, 2018, 08:04:11 AM »
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  • There never has been and there never will be any reasonable excuse for the fact that a ship or plane traveling due east (or due west) along the equator does not have to turn right (starboard) or left (port) in order to remain on the equator and due east (or west as the case may be).


    Hmmm.  At the same time, planes do not have to keep dipping their nose down to stay at the same altitude as they go around the globe.