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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: Neil Obstat on February 18, 2018, 12:06:01 AM

Title: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 18, 2018, 12:06:01 AM
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source (https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/flat-earth-proof-just-a-mirage/)
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My Own Experiment
Since temperature inversions are common over water, it is relatively easy to devise experiments in which distant objects beyond the curvature of the earth are visible. Perhaps the most famous are the photographs of the Chicago skyline taken across Lake Michigan, about 60 miles away. The photographer, Joshua Nowicki, does not promote the flat earth, but flat-earthers have used his photographs many times, such as here (http://investigate-nasa.com/2015/11/12/earth-curve-calculator/), as supposed proof that the earth is flat. Flat-earthers do not seem to be aware of just how rare these photographs are. If the earth were flat, then the Chicago skyline would be visible across Lake Michigan nearly every clear day, but it is not. If the earth is spherical, then the hulls of ships ought to disappear as the ships move away from the observer. Since the ship must move many miles away for this to become noticeable, it is difficult to see this with the naked eye.
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As with the Chicago skyline, there are many images on the internet, usually videos, of ships some distance away in which their hulls are visible. Many of these are taken during warm weather, such as late spring and summer, when the water is likely to be much cooler than the air, producing a temperature inversion. However, what would happen if one were to repeat this experiment over water that is warmer than the air temperature? Since there is no temperature inversion, the hulls of ships ought to disappear. This condition is likely to prevail on cool days in late autumn and early winter, when water temperatures are higher than air temperatures. These conditions also can produce inferior mirages, though not nearly as pronounced as over land on sunny summer days.
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On November 12, 2016, I had the opportunity to conduct this experiment. I was near the water’s edge, just beyond the surf, at Virginia Beach from middle to late afternoon. When I began, the air temperature was 50 degrees F, and the temperature dropped a degree or two by the time that I was done, near sunset. The water temperature was 62–64 degrees F, so the air immediately above the water was at least ten degrees warmer than the air temperature a short distance above the water. I photographed two cargo ships as they made their way out to sea from the port at Hampton Roads. I mounted a digital SLR camera on a 3.5-inch Questar telescope, having a 1,200-mm focal length. The ISO setting on the camera was 100 for all photographs.
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The first photograph (Figure 4) is of a cargo ship bearing the name of the company on its hull. The company is the NYK line, a major Japanese shipping company. Notice that the bottoms of the letters are not visible. The letters on the hulls of cargo ships do not extend to the water line, even when fully loaded, so clearly the bottom of the hull is not visible. This is consistent with what we would expect on a spherical earth, but not on a flat earth. Notice the white bridge castle to the left. The shipping containers are multicolored, and they are stacked at least seven high above the hull directly in front of the bridge castle. Below the visible tiers of the multi-colored containers there is a level of what appears to be gray containers. It is not clear why the containers in this layer are the same color. Finally, notice that the image is a bit blurry. This is because of turbulence in the air between the ship and shore. With increasing distance, the turbulence will get worse, and the images will get blurrier.
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(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-04.jpg)
Figure 4
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In the next photograph and succeeding photographs, the ship is farther away, as indicated by the decreasing apparent size of the ship. In Figure 5, an inferior mirage is starting to show up. At the edge of the water, you can see a gray line, which is an inferior mirage of the row of gray containers right above the hull. On the right side of the ship, you can see the inferior mirage of the bow. The hull protrudes forward there, and the small white patch just above is a small portion of the forecastle. Notice that the inferior mirage of the bow is inverted, as one would expect. It is difficult to see here, but the lettering on the hull also is undergoing an inferior mirage too.
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(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-05.jpg)
Figure 5
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In the next photograph (Figure 6), the lettering on the hull is no longer visible. The layer of gray containers is even more visible in the inferior mirage, and the first layer of multi-colored containers is now beginning to appear in the inferior mirage. In the next photograph (Figure 7), the light from the gray layer of containers and its inferior mirage are beginning to merge. The first layer of the multi-colored containers above it is clearly visible in the inferior mirage. The white of the bridge castle is starting to show up in the inferior mirage. In Figure 8, the layer of gray containers no longer is visible. The bottom of the bridge castle and its inferior mirage have merged. None of the hull is visible. In the next photograph (Figure 9), the ship has turned, so we see the back of the bridge castle and containers on the stern. Much of the bottom of what appears to be the ship is an inferior mirage of the upper containers. At any rate, the hull is clearly not visible. Finally, in Figure 10 none of the containers are visible. All that we can see is the back of the bridge castle, merged with the upside-down inferior mirage. Notice the symmetry between the two.

(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-06.jpg)
Figure 6
(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-07.jpg)
Figure 7
(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-08.jpg)
Figure 8
(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-09.jpg)
Figure 9
(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-10.jpg)
Figure 10
Conclusion 
(Second ship's photos will be added later)
These photographs clearly reveal that the hulls of these (two) ships progressively disappeared as the ships moved farther away. This is consistent with what we would expect if the earth is spherical, but this cannot be explained if the earth is flat. Therefore, this is good evidence that the earth is spherical. The results presented here contradict the many photos on the internet of objects beyond the horizon that supposedly prove that the earth is flat. Those alleged proofs are flawed because they failed to take account of atmospheric refraction due to a temperature inversion. By conducting this experiment when there was no possibility of a temperature inversion, I avoided that complication. The fact that inferior mirages consistently showed up in the photographs prove that there was no temperature inversion, indicating instead that there was a slightly warmer layer of air in contact with the water, with slightly cooler air above.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 18, 2018, 12:14:44 AM
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The second ship
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Another container ship made its way outward, as shown in Figure 11, a photograph taken through the supports of the pier at Virginia Beach. You can clearly read the name of the shipping company, Maersk Line, on the turquoise hull. What appears to be stains under the letters are the beginnings of an inferior mirage of the letters. Instead of a level of gray containers immediately above the hull, the layer of containers right above the hull on this ship appear a deep red. As with the other ship, in each succeeding photograph this ship is farther away, as evidenced by the decreasing apparent sizes of the containers and the ship.
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(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-11.jpg)
Figure 11
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In Figure 12, the ship now appears beyond the pier. Notice that the inferior mirage of the lettering on the hull is much more obvious now. In Figure 13, the lettering and its inferior mirage have [now] merged. In Figure 14, the lettering is difficult to see. This probably is because most of the lettering is below the horizon, and what appears to be the bottom of the hull is an inferior mirage of the top of the hull. This is clearly seen by the inferior mirage of the first layer of red containers below the turquoise. In Figure 15, the inferior mirage of the bottom layer of containers is more obvious, and the inferior mirage of the bottom of the bridge castle is beginning to show up. Clearly, at least half of the turquoise visible here is an inferior mirage. Most of the hull is below the curvature of the earth. Unfortunately, at this point the sun was about to set, so light levels were dropping quickly, forcing me to use longer exposures. At that point, I stopped taking photographs.
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(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-12.jpg)
Figure 12
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(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-13.jpg)
Figure 13
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(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-14.jpg)
Figure 14
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(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-15.jpg)
Figure 15
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Conclusion
(First ship's photos are in the OP)

These photographs clearly reveal that the hulls of these two ships progressively disappeared as the ships moved farther away. This is consistent with what we would expect if the earth is spherical, but this cannot be explained if the earth is flat. Therefore, this is good evidence that the earth is spherical. The results presented here contradict the many photos on the Internet of objects beyond the horizon that supposedly prove that the earth is flat. Those alleged proofs are flawed because they failed to take account of atmospheric refraction due to a temperature inversion. By conducting this experiment when there was no possibility of a temperature inversion, I avoided that complication. The fact that inferior mirages consistently showed up in the photographs prove that there was no temperature inversion, indicating instead that there was a slightly warmer layer of air in contact with the water, with slightly cooler air above.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Truth is Eternal on February 18, 2018, 05:12:36 PM
 ;D FLAT! ;D
(https://i.imgur.com/UoaTTho.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3nlDhCY.jpg)
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Ladislaus on February 18, 2018, 05:37:06 PM
This is consistent with what we would expect if the earth is spherical, but this cannot be explained if the earth is flat.

False.  You can clearly see the resolution of the pictures getting worse ... as the markings on the side get more and more blurry.  So the adequacy of the magnification remains in question.  Nor do we know the sea conditions ... i.e. how high the waves are.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 18, 2018, 07:31:50 PM
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Quote from: Neil Obstat on Yesterday at 10:14:44 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/inferior-image-experiment-conducted-without-bias-earth-is-not-flat!/msg595552/#msg595552)
Quote
This is consistent with what we would expect if the earth is spherical, but this cannot be explained if the earth is flat.
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False.  You can clearly see the resolution of the pictures getting worse ... as the markings on the side get more and more blurry.  So the adequacy of the magnification remains in question.  Nor do we know the sea conditions ... i.e. how high the waves are.
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I had to go back and find what you are quoting because "This" (which you say is false) is not contained in your quote.
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"These photographs clearly reveal that the hulls of these two ships progressively disappeared as the ships moved farther away. This is consistent with what we would expect if the earth is spherical, but this cannot be explained if the earth is flat."
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The author says, "These photographs clearly reveal..." and you say these photographs are not clear but blurry.
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The author isn't talking about the resolution of the photos. He's referring to the clarity of the evidence that the two ships progressively disappeared (from the bottom up, gradually) as the ships moved farther away.
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You can see (or you ought to be able to see) that even with additional blurriness as they moved away, it is evident that the blue water under the ship is not the same thing as a view of the hulls which are evidently obscured by the blue water.
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If the earth were "flat" we would still be able to see the first ship's hull, even with additional blurriness.
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When the hull is no longer visible, such as in Figures 6 through 10 (first ship), the magnification is adequate (you say it's in question?) to show the containers on deck and therefore we ought to see the hull too, but we can't.
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Some technical info is given for the camera and lens:
"I mounted a digital SLR camera on a 3.5-inch Questar telescope, having a 1,200-mm focal length. The ISO setting on the camera was 100 for all photographs."
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Are you suggesting that the lens or the camera are somehow questionable? 1,200 mm focal length is more power than most sports photographers use for football games, for example. Do you think more magnification is needed here? Or what?
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What manner of magnification would you be satisfied with? If anything?
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As for "how high the waves are" it would be nice to know what the swell height was that day, but let's face it, there are no white caps anywhere so we know from that alone that the seas were not choppy. If the swells were high we would see some effects of that in the images of the water but there isn't any. We could expect a swell height of about 4 feet for such conditions, but certainly no more than 6 feet. The hulls of such container ships are generally 50 feet high above the water line, and you can estimate that by the comparative size of the standard containers on the deck. The first image, Figure 4, shows 8 levels of containers with a partially obscured ship hull height of 6 container heights. So the first ship had a hull height of at least 8 container heights since the painted letters are never touching the water line of container ships.
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Do you suppose that 50 feet of hull can be hidden behind less than 10 feet of swell on a "flat" earth? Or what?
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Why is this difficult for you to recognize? It sounds like you're trying to say that since you don't like the magnification (for the increasing blurriness?) you therefore think a "flat" earth is consistent with these photographs. How so?
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Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 18, 2018, 07:52:24 PM
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Here are some available images of NYK LINE Japanese container ships, loaded with 7 courses of standard containers.
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(https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Flloydslist.maritimeintelligence.informa.com%2F-%2Fmedia%2Finforma%2Fmaritime%2Flegacy-images%2F2016%2Foctober%2Fnyklogo.jpg%3Fw%3D790%26amp%3Bhash%3D17EDD50615EA66DA4BCD379C6CEED8F21B230780&sp=bb2e0bdac16083ccf7aaeeee2186b130) (https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F93%2FNYK_Virgo_%25288154929586%2529.jpg&sp=23b13158ea964a56104558ad6f4ddf84)
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Notice how the lettering is well above the water line (painted red) and the distance from sea level to the first course of containers is about the same as the entire height of all the stacked containers above deck.
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Can you see any of the ship's hull below the containers in the photo of Figure 7, below?
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(https://assets.answersingenesis.org/img/articles/2017/01/another-flat-earth-prediction/figure-07.jpg)
                                          Figure 7, from the article
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What explanation can you offer for 50 feet of missing ship hull in this image?
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The flat-earther canard of "fake image" need not apply.
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BTW what do you suppose the effect of "wave height" is at play here:
(https://s14-eu5.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F9%2F93%2FNYK_Virgo_%25288154929586%2529.jpg&sp=23b13158ea964a56104558ad6f4ddf84)
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: hismajesty on February 19, 2018, 05:00:24 AM
These photographs clearly reveal that the hulls of these (two) ships progressively disappeared as the ships moved farther away. This is consistent with what we would expect if the earth is spherical, but this cannot be explained if the earth is flat. Therefore, this is good evidence that the earth is spherical. The results presented here contradict the many photos on the internet of objects beyond the horizon that supposedly prove that the earth is flat. Those alleged proofs are flawed because they failed to take account of atmospheric refraction due to a temperature inversion. By conducting this experiment when there was no possibility of a temperature inversion, I avoided that complication. The fact that inferior mirages consistently showed up in the photographs prove that there was no temperature inversion, indicating instead that there was a slightly warmer layer of air in contact with the water, with slightly cooler air above.[/font][/size][/color]


Such nonsense.You are trying to confuse people with false assertions so they will be put off from seeking the truth.
 
This is explained on the flat earth by perspective, but you don't agree because you presume the earth is round.Which is not scientific. If you want to propose  a  theory that the earth is round, which is contrary to appearances, then your theory has to stand up to scrutiny. It does not.

Temperature inversion has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about. We've gone through mirages. But you're just copying and pasting. Intelligent debate might be too much for you.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Ladislaus on February 19, 2018, 07:51:30 AM
Between figures 13 and 14, suddenly the writing on the side of the ship disappears.  Every picture you show of missing hull is blurry .. and calls into question the precise resolution of the picture being taken.  Consequently, there could in fact be some visual convergence going on with the water level.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Ladislaus on February 19, 2018, 07:53:08 AM

Such nonsense.You are trying to confuse people with false assertions so they will be put off from seeking the truth.
 
This is explained on the flat earth by perspective, but you don't agree because you presume the earth is round.Which is not scientific. If you want to propose  a  theory that the earth is round, which is contrary to appearances, then your theory has to stand up to scrutiny. It does not.

Temperature inversion has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about. We've gone through mirages. But you're just copying and pasting. Intelligent debate might be too much for you.

Yet this comment here is not intelligent debate either.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: LaramieHirsch on February 19, 2018, 08:18:33 AM
Flat Earthers are CIA spooks whose aim is to discredit traditionalists.  It's the stupidest thing ever, and it works, as continuous threads on this forum have shown.  


Enjoy the decline.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: hismajesty on February 19, 2018, 09:35:30 AM
Yet this comment here is not intelligent debate either.

A curious thing to say. Because I attacked the poster doesn't mean my comment didn't contain substance as well.

People can be morally irresponsible as well as factually incorrect. I can correct both.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: hismajesty on February 19, 2018, 09:37:08 AM
Flat Earthers are CIA spooks whose aim is to discredit traditionalists.  It's the stupidest thing ever, and it works, as continuous threads on this forum have shown. 


Enjoy the decline.

This explains at least why you don't post on flat earth.

The only decline will be in your mind as more and more people around you become flat earth and you obstinately refuse it.

How you can  say that something which the majority of human beings accepted for thousands of years will lead to a decline is beyond me.

But that is the power of globe-think
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: LaramieHirsch on February 19, 2018, 11:35:24 AM
This explains at least why you don't post on flat earth.

The only decline will be in your mind as more and more people around you become flat earth and you obstinately refuse it.

How you can  say that something which the majority of human beings accepted for thousands of years will lead to a decline is beyond me.

But that is the power of globe-think
Fool.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 20, 2018, 03:01:02 PM


Between figures 13 and 14, suddenly the writing on the side of the ship disappears.  Every picture you show of missing hull is blurry .. and calls into question the precise resolution of the picture being taken.  Consequently, there could in fact be some visual convergence going on with the water level.
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Between Figure 13 and 14, not only the writing disappears, but also (in 14) an inferior image appears IN ITS PLACE. 
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Where you see the tops of letters in 13 you see in 14 the reflection of the top of the hull upside down with the first course of containers reflected just above water level -- the same thing you see higher up on the ship but here it's upside down, an inferior image.
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Is that reflected lower part what you mean by "visual convergence with the water level?" 
The website refers to this as "inferior image."
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The horizontal line that divides the lower image with the upper, upright image can be at a level that more accurately indicates the highest level of ocean water, and tangent to the high point of ocean curvature. The inferior image below that high or tangent line is then a reflection appearing upside-down, of the narrow band of ship image ending with the first course of containers.
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The blurriness of the pictures is due to atmospheric interference, which would be much worse if it were foggy. These telephotos are pretty clear for shoreline shots, but apparently they're not clear enough to meet your expectations!
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The other thread with submarine periscope photos (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/why-do-periscope-views-hide-the-lower-hull-of-distant-ships/) has some examples of very clear telephotos, but remember those were taken out at sea where there is no shoreline conditions. Sometimes long distance images can be very good in the open ocean but they're much more rare shooting from land out to sea.
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This one has no inferior image and very little "blurriness":
(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F3%2F2503%2F3977631766_055130ba7e_b.jpg&sp=7dd7474df9141185a4910dec8b5aab73)
Yet the very bottom part of the ship's hull where it meets the water is obscured by the high point of sea curvature between the ship and the periscope. Since the periscope is usually only 3 to 5 feet above the water surface this high point of sea curvature is much closer to the ship than it is to the periscope and so it hides less than 3 to 5 feet of the ship's hull. Since the ship is probably in motion, some wake or surge at the bow would be visible from close range but it could be hidden in the same 3 to 5 feet that is obscured by the high point of sea curvature.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: happenby on February 20, 2018, 03:44:07 PM
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Between Figure 13 and 14, not only the writing disappears, but also (in 14) an inferior image appears IN ITS PLACE.
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Where you see the tops of letters in 13 you see in 14 the reflection of the top of the hull upside down with the first course of containers reflected just above water level -- the same thing you see higher up on the ship but here it's upside down, an inferior image.
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Is that reflected lower part what you mean by "visual convergence with the water level?"
The website refers to this as "inferior image."
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The horizontal line that divides the lower image with the upper, upright image can be at a level that more accurately indicates the highest level of ocean water, and tangent to the high point of ocean curvature. The inferior image below that high or tangent line is then a reflection appearing upside-down, of the narrow band of ship image ending with the first course of containers.
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The blurriness of the pictures is due to atmospheric interference, which would be much worse if it were foggy. These telephotos are pretty clear for shoreline shots, but apparently they're not clear enough to meet your expectations!
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The other thread with submarine periscope photos (https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/why-do-periscope-views-hide-the-lower-hull-of-distant-ships/) has some examples of very clear telephotos, but remember those were taken out at sea where there is no shoreline conditions. Sometimes long distance images can be very good in the open ocean but they're much more rare shooting from land out to sea.
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This one has no inferior image and very little "blurriness":
(https://s15-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc1.staticflickr.com%2F3%2F2503%2F3977631766_055130ba7e_b.jpg&sp=7dd7474df9141185a4910dec8b5aab73)
Yet the very bottom part of the ship's hull where it meets the water is obscured by the high point of sea curvature between the ship and the periscope. Since the periscope is usually only 3 to 5 feet above the water surface this high point of sea curvature is much closer to the ship than it is to the periscope and so it hides less than 3 to 5 feet of the ship's hull. Since the ship is probably in motion, some wake or surge at the bow would be visible from close range but it could be hidden in the same 3 to 5 feet that is obscured by the high point of sea curvature.
Sea curvature? Quite a stretch.  Not even NASA says "sea curvature".  In fact, no one at all says it or suggests it.  Always and everywhere it is known as sea level.  Water surface does not 'curve'.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 20, 2018, 08:35:17 PM
Sea curvature? Quite a stretch.  Not even NASA says "sea curvature".  In fact, no one at all says it or suggests it.  Always and everywhere it is known as sea level.  Water surface does not 'curve'.
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The oceans of the world have the same curvature that the earth does.
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The periscope images I provided clearly show it.
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Many moving pictures shot over the oceans show it as well.
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You're living in a fantasy world. Wake up!
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: happenby on February 20, 2018, 09:00:50 PM
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The oceans of the world have the same curvature that the earth does.
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The periscope images I provided clearly show it.
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Many moving pictures shot over the oceans show it as well.
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You're living in a fantasy world. Wake up!
Nothing about the preceding shows that the ocean curves.  Water cannot settle into a curve over the extent its surface.  That would mean the middle of the curve exceeds the height of water at the beaches.   ::)      
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 20, 2018, 09:05:50 PM
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Nothing about the preceding shows that the ocean curves.  Water cannot settle into a curve over the extent its surface.  That would mean the middle of the curve exceeds the height of water at the beaches.   ::)      
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How about this? Still can't manage to see the curve in the ocean's surface?
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Earth's Horizon (https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/earth/shape_of_earth/earth_s_horizon_1.html)

(https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/images/main/iss007e10807.jpg)
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Curvature of the Earth
Courtesy of NASA, ISS Expedition 7 Crew
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-7/html/iss007e10807.html (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-7/html/iss007e10807.html)

The curvature of the Earth can be seen in this photograph taken by a crew member on board the International Space Station (ISS), Expedition 7. The anvil tops of thunderclouds are visible as the Sun sets over the Pacific Ocean.
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Earth's Horizon (https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/earth/shape_of_earth/earth_s_horizon_4.html)

(https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/images/main/eclipse99_mir_big.jpg)
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Solar Eclipse From Space
Copyright: CNES
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070610.html (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070610.html)

This photo was taken from the Mir Space Station August 11, 1999 during a solar eclipse. The dark area is the shadow of the Moon. It moves across the the surface at a speed of nearly 2,000 kilometers per hour. Only people in the dark center of the shadow will see a total solar eclipse, everyone else will see a partial solar eclipse.

The two bright "stars" in the upper left are possibly Jupiter and Saturn, but this could not be verified.

The Mir Space Station was destroyed in 2001 when it returned to Earth in a controlled re-entry.
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Soundly Shows Flat-Earthers the Curve (https://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2017/06/soundly-shows-flat-earthers-curve.html)
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In a rather devastating series of videos and high-resolution photographs (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDXr2cbK7WlfeYEtJxC9i3w/videos) Soundly has shown the best evidence for the curvature over the horizon I've seen [Soundly's Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_de5ZI7emSGbDFsRU5Na05IcHc)] - thanks to a very long line of equal height towers that stretch over a portion of Lake Pontchartrain.  His first Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1BEYUZ7Ypw) includes extended details about exactly where the images were taken.

Observation Height: about 40' above water on the bridge
North Side: Approximate Location: 30° 4'42.40"N, 90°24'20.98"W
South Side: Approximate Location: 30° 4'38.71"N, 90°24'12.66"W
Tall Background Tower (210' - ORS# 22-001038 ): 30°17'37.59"N, 90°18'38.64"W

IMG_4118 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_de5ZI7emSGSlZTR0dQTmJXMFE) is my personal favorite of the images, which I color balanced and notated - including the perspective lines for the towers.

Where those lines converge is where the horizon would be IF Earth was flat.  That is how the "Vanishing Point" for parallel lines works.  The fact that the horizon is BELOW that point and the fact that the towers clearly fall below these lines shows you the water surface is curved.

----------Translation:  The author drew the fine red lines along the tower tops and bases which converge at a point in the sky on the left in the distance, the vanishing point.
The towers only appear to be in line in the foreground (but if you look closely you can see they're diverging there too), but in the distance they most obviously curve downward following the curvature of the earth.
The first 4 towers touch the top red line but tower 5 does not, and 6 is further down, and 7 more, and so on.
.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YT2Pw9ZXQJA/WUME7aXDODI/AAAAAAAAEVs/h13MF1K5Wz0QDW7osXk2d6A5YcRYIFenwCLcBGAs/s640/Soundly-IMG_4118-2-markedout.jpg)

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2-by4H9mnY8/WUMIrI0ilMI/AAAAAAAAEV0/pyb_8RFzVQoSNsAdIcgALOwYPu-duY5YQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_4034.JPG)
.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-thv-g6v4iJQ/WUMIs4c8rlI/AAAAAAAAEWE/WthXul7CRpQtKz22JJiZLBilFGtqCbXygCLcBGAs/s1600/soundly-night-partchartrain-IMG_5038_exp_16-9.JPG)
.
Resources


Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Miseremini on February 20, 2018, 09:33:12 PM
How you can  say that something which the majority of human beings accepted for thousands of years will lead to a decline is beyond me.


Well it's getting that the majority of people accept Dawninism, albeit not yet thousands of years, but
will that then become truth?
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 20, 2018, 10:28:48 PM
This explains at least why you don't post on flat earth.

The only decline will be in your mind as more and more people around you become flat earth and you obstinately refuse it.

How you can  say that something which the majority of human beings accepted for thousands of years will lead to a decline is beyond me.

But that is the power of globe-think
.
It's patently false that people accepted flat-earthism for thousands of years.
.
But even if they had, what good would that be in the face of modern equipment?
.
Did people thousands of years ago have telescopes?
or laser levels and distance measuring devices?
or aircraft?
or rockets?
or photography?
.
Short answer: No.
.
So regardless of what they thought about the shape of the earth, they weren't qualified in the first place.
.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: hismajesty on February 21, 2018, 11:34:16 AM
..
How about this? Still can't manage to see the curve in the ocean's surface?
.
Earth's Horizon (https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/earth/shape_of_earth/earth_s_horizon_1.html)

(https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/images/main/iss007e10807.jpg)
.
Curvature of the Earth


If those are the right images I remember, then it is because the lines are not in a straight line going out. This is why they appear to "bend" over the curvature. It could also be atmospheric distortion.
Courtesy of NASA, ISS Expedition 7 Crew
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-7/html/iss007e10807.html (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/station/crew-7/html/iss007e10807.html)

The curvature of the Earth can be seen in this photograph taken by a crew member on board the International Space Station (ISS), Expedition 7. The anvil tops of thunderclouds are visible as the Sun sets over the Pacific Ocean.
.
Earth's Horizon (https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/earth/shape_of_earth/earth_s_horizon_4.html)

(https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/images/main/eclipse99_mir_big.jpg)
.
Solar Eclipse From Space
Copyright: CNES
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070610.html (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070610.html)

This photo was taken from the Mir Space Station August 11, 1999 during a solar eclipse. The dark area is the shadow of the Moon. It moves across the the surface at a speed of nearly 2,000 kilometers per hour. Only people in the dark center of the shadow will see a total solar eclipse, everyone else will see a partial solar eclipse.

The two bright "stars" in the upper left are possibly Jupiter and Saturn, but this could not be verified.

The Mir Space Station was destroyed in 2001 when it returned to Earth in a controlled re-entry.
.
Soundly Shows Flat-Earthers the Curve (https://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2017/06/soundly-shows-flat-earthers-curve.html)
.
In a rather devastating series of videos and high-resolution photographs (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDXr2cbK7WlfeYEtJxC9i3w/videos) Soundly has shown the best evidence for the curvature over the horizon I've seen [Soundly's Google Drive (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_de5ZI7emSGbDFsRU5Na05IcHc)] - thanks to a very long line of equal height towers that stretch over a portion of Lake Pontchartrain.  His first Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1BEYUZ7Ypw) includes extended details about exactly where the images were taken.

Observation Height: about 40' above water on the bridge
North Side: Approximate Location: 30° 4'42.40"N, 90°24'20.98"W
South Side: Approximate Location: 30° 4'38.71"N, 90°24'12.66"W
Tall Background Tower (210' - ORS# 22-001038 ): 30°17'37.59"N, 90°18'38.64"W

IMG_4118 (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_de5ZI7emSGSlZTR0dQTmJXMFE) is my personal favorite of the images, which I color balanced and notated - including the perspective lines for the towers.

Where those lines converge is where the horizon would be IF Earth was flat.  That is how the "Vanishing Point" for parallel lines works.  The fact that the horizon is BELOW that point and the fact that the towers clearly fall below these lines shows you the water surface is curved.

----------Translation:  The author drew the fine red lines along the tower tops and bases which converge at a point in the sky on the left in the distance, the vanishing point.
The towers only appear to be in line in the foreground (but if you look closely you can see they're diverging there too), but in the distance they most obviously curve downward following the curvature of the earth.
The first 4 towers touch the top red line but tower 5 does not, and 6 is further down, and 7 more, and so on.
.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YT2Pw9ZXQJA/WUME7aXDODI/AAAAAAAAEVs/h13MF1K5Wz0QDW7osXk2d6A5YcRYIFenwCLcBGAs/s640/Soundly-IMG_4118-2-markedout.jpg)

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2-by4H9mnY8/WUMIrI0ilMI/AAAAAAAAEV0/pyb_8RFzVQoSNsAdIcgALOwYPu-duY5YQCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_4034.JPG)
.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-thv-g6v4iJQ/WUMIs4c8rlI/AAAAAAAAEWE/WthXul7CRpQtKz22JJiZLBilFGtqCbXygCLcBGAs/s1600/soundly-night-partchartrain-IMG_5038_exp_16-9.JPG)
.
Resources
  • Perspective Explained for Flat Earthers (http://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2017/05/perspective-explained-for-flat-earthers.html)
  • ➠➠➠ Walter Bislin: Rendering Flat vs Globe (http://walter.bislins.ch/blog/index.asp?page=Flat-Earth%3A+Finding+the+curvature+of+the+Earth)
  • ➠➠➠ Walter Bislin: Centrifugal calculator (http://walter.bislins.ch/blog/index.asp?page=Centrifugal+and+Gravitational+Acceleration+in+an+Aircraft)
  • ➠➠➠ Soundly Shows Flat Earth the Curve (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B_de5ZI7emSGbDFsRU5Na05IcHc)
  • (G+) Flat Earth Follies (https://plus.google.com/communities/101654202968899096257)
  • Sun Angles on Flat Earth (https://www.geogebra.org/m/C9BcVgd4)
  • ⚠ Catalog of Flat Earth Claims & Refutations (http://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2016/11/catalog-of-flat-earth-claims-refutations.html)
  • �� FEI Horizon Calculator (https://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.ca/p/fei-horizon-calculator.html)
  • Height Obscured by Curvature (http://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2016/07/derivation-for-height-of-distant.html)
  • On High-Altitude Images (http://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2016/08/flat-earth-follies-high-altitude.html)
  • On Gravity Measurement (http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/roypta/372/2026/20140030.fu)
  • On Centrifugal Force (http://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2016/07/flat-earth-follies-but-you-would-fly.html)
  • On Crepuscular Rays (http://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2016/07/flat-earth-follies-crepuscular-rays.html)
  • On View of Chicago (http://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2016/07/chicago-skyline-looming-from-mi.html)
  • Simple Proof for Convexity of Earth (http://flatearthinsanity.blogspot.com/2016/07/simple-proof-for-convexity-of-earth.html)
  • ⛺ Ellipsoid Earth Radius Calc (http://www.summitpost.org/distance-to-the-center-of-the-earth/849764)
  • ⛺ Angular Size Calculator (https://rechneronline.de/sehwinkel/angular-diameter.php)
  • ⛺ Great Circle Calculator (http://williams.best.vwh.net/gccalc.htm)
  • ⛺ Sun Rise/Set (http://suncalc.net/)
  • ⛺ ATY - MIrages (http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~aty/mirages/mirintro.html)
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: hismajesty on February 21, 2018, 11:36:03 AM
Well it's getting that the majority of people accept Dawninism, albeit not yet thousands of years, but
will that then become truth?

Our forefathers, with all their faults were a lot wiser than us.

Iphones and boeing 747's don't make us better.

We are in the most decadent society the world has ever seen.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 21, 2018, 01:07:45 PM
Our forefathers, with all their faults were a lot wiser than us.

Iphones and boeing 747's don't make us better.

We are in the most decadent society the world has ever seen.
.
You're getting all confused, mixing morality and ethics with physical laws of nature.
.
The physics of a proton has nothing to do with ethics.
.
The physical dimensions and parameters of the earth is not a matter of good vs. evil.
.
The moral depravity of our current age is not a barometer of our current ability to assess physical reality.
.
I agree that in antiquity there were men with far more wisdom in moral matters than can be found today.
.
It is as though the popular trend has been pushed toward eschewing the moral wisdom of the ancients.
.
But don't get that mixed up with the advances we have made in mechanical engineering and manufacturing.
.
There are two extremes, both of which are erroneous:
-- One erroneous extreme says that modern scientists like Hawking can be entrusted with making credible pronouncements on the morality of using nuclear energy in the prosecution of a war. Their proficiency in physics actually gives them no qualification to make any such moral judgments.
-- The other erroneous extreme says that because of our moral decadence, modern scientists and engineers cannot be believed when they assess entirely physical realities such as the distance from Earth, to the moon, to Jupiter, to Mars, or to the sun; or that just because what the specific mechanisms of magnetism or gravity are isn't known we therefore are unable to make use of magnetic fields or the forces of gravitational fields.
.
You can compare this situation to the modern practice of medicine. A medical doctor might have no idea of how the aging process is tied up with certain mysterious processes in the mitochondria, but he can still administer the correct precise amount of a particular drug to induce a safe, temporary sleep for surgery. 
.
In ancient times there was a wise Greek physician named Hyppocrites, after whom was named the Hyppocratic Oath. 
Doctors have traditionally adhered to this as a moral basis for their practice.
But in recent years, the conflict between ancient wisdom and our currently increasing moral decadence has risen to the point where modern medical students no longer have to be concerned with accepting this moral foundation -- or by refusing it risk losing professional credibility. Because modern doctors are no longer required to adhere to the Hyppocratic Oath.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Smedley Butler on February 21, 2018, 01:21:15 PM
Neil posted NASA fake photos.

Here's a real photo from Parkland HS:


https://imgur.com/LYcnJdn
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 23, 2018, 12:18:47 AM
Neil posted NASA fake photos.

Here's a real photo from Parkland HS:


https://imgur.com/LYcnJdn
.
Fake photos don't "prove" anything!!
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 23, 2018, 12:48:36 AM
.
This is a video made to show the looming effect of inferior images change constantly.
.
Watch the shoreline on the far side of the water in the foreground, especially in the second half of the video.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiooJGo9GNU
.
Source (http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2012/09/super-mirage-video.html)
.
The video starts in the morning when the air over land is relatively cool, but watch what happens as temperatures warm up aloft and the temperatures above the ground increase.   If you have motion sickness, beware!   The imagery is going to heave and distort in time.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Ladislaus on February 23, 2018, 12:45:40 PM
.
This is a video made to show the looming effect of inferior images change constantly.
.
Watch the shoreline on the far side of the water in the foreground, especially in the second half of the video.
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiooJGo9GNU
.
Source (http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2012/09/super-mirage-video.html)
.
The video starts in the morning when the air over land is relatively cool, but watch what happens as temperatures warm up aloft and the temperatures above the ground increase.   If you have motion sickness, beware!   The imagery is going to heave and distort in time.

Can you explain what this is supposed to demonstrate?  There was certainly some visual distortion from time to time due to the heat.  What are the implications?
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Smedley Butler on February 23, 2018, 01:21:04 PM
I'm waiting for the curved ocean photo.

Still waiting. ..
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 23, 2018, 01:26:06 PM
Can you explain what this is supposed to demonstrate?  There was certainly some visual distortion from time to time due to the heat.  What are the implications?
.
The distortion is not merely "the heat" but the effect of LAYERS of air at different temperatures and humidity.
.
Did you go to the source page and read it? Evidently not.
.
Let me give you then something the source page doesn't manage to spell out. Since the series of images recorded over a period of a whole day (at one frame every 4 minutes) clearly shows that the height of buildings located just past the shoreline opposite the water body in the foreground grows and shrinks in what appears to be waves, anyone can cherry-pick the images one wishes to use out of such a series, such that only the ones that fit the current agenda need be shown. That is to say, if you want to claim that the buildings appear close you can select only the frames with very tall images for the buildings. If you want to claim that the buildings appear far away, you can cherry-pick the frames with very short images for the buildings. Likewise, if you want to say there is no curvature over the water or that there is no reflection inherent in such views, you can choose only the frames showing medium height buildings, claiming that the building heights are without question consistent with heights photographed from a point just offshore across the water, "proving" the earth is flat! But it in fact doesn't prove any such thing.
.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 23, 2018, 01:30:07 PM
I'm waiting for the curved ocean photo.

Still waiting. ..
.
While you're waiting you could post more fake photos from you favorite imgur site where no data is ever provided.
Then you can continue to complain when other members don't give all the data that you never give.
Sound like a plan? Oh, never mind, it's already in progress, right.
.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Ladislaus on February 23, 2018, 02:54:01 PM
That is to say, if you want to claim that the buildings appear close you can select only the frames with very tall images for the buildings. If you want to claim that the buildings appear far away, you can cherry-pick the frames with very short images for the buildings. Likewise, if you want to say there is no curvature over the water or that there is no reflection inherent in such views, you can choose only the frames showing medium height buildings, claiming that the building heights are without question consistent with heights photographed from a point just offshore across the water, "proving" the earth is flat! But it in fact doesn't prove any such thing.
.

Sure, I see that the heights of things appear to change in some atmospheric conditions.  Yet, when that happens, the image obviously looks distorted or warped or extremely blurry ... in other words, it's obvious that it's being distorted.  I'm not sure if this is refraction per se or some other phenomenon involving light distortion/bending.  While the heights of things changed in this video due to the distortion, this doesn't demonstrate how something can appear when it should be entirely hidden by curvature.  I've seen videos put together by flat earthers where mountains are photographed from nearly a 100 miles away, where most of the mountain is visible despite the fact that curvature math indicates they should be entirely hidden from view.  These pictures were not taken by flat earthers, and the heights above sea level of both the camera and the target were meticulously docuмented.  This doesn't look anything like the phenomenon you were showing in the video.

You spoke earlier of scientific proof.  Either someone (globe earther) must prove that refraction was in play to explain the visibility of the target objects or the flat earther must prove that refraction could NOT have accounted for the visibility of the object.  So, short of such proof, we are at an impasse.  I have just seen enough of these pictures of far-away objects that SHOULD be hidden by curvature to doubt that refraction could be at play in all of them.  Of course I can't rule it out with certainty.  But refraction would then seem a very predictable and nearly ubiquitous phenomenon.  Here's what's interesting.  Globe-earthers, because of their premise that the earth MUST be round, will insist that refraction is a certainty, while flat earthers will claim that refraction could not have caused the phenomenon.  Both are certain of their interpretation a priori because they are essentially begging the question, taking their conclusion for granted.  

I, currently in the middle on this issue, cannot rule out refraction, nor have I been convinced that it MUST be in play.  I am currently leaning slightly AGAINST refraction being the cause just because I've seen too many examples of this.

Think of me as someone who has NO idea whether the earth is flat or a globe ... and try to prove one or another of them to me.  That's how I myself am approaching this question.  I won't take either position as my starting point ... since that'll not allow me to find the truth (unless I just HAPPEN to pick the right one in the first place).
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Ladislaus on February 23, 2018, 02:55:23 PM
.
While you're waiting you could post more fake photos from you favorite imgur site where no data is ever provided.
Then you can continue to complain when other members don't give all the data that you never give.
Sound like a plan? Oh, never mind, it's already in progress, right.
.

I find that both sides are guilty of this from time to time.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 23, 2018, 03:24:32 PM
I'm waiting for the curved ocean photo.

Still waiting. ..
.
You must not have been paying attention, as usual.
(https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/images/main/eclipse99_mir_big.jpg)
                Behold a curved ocean photo.
.
BTW if it's data you want, go to the source page.
.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Smedley Butler on February 23, 2018, 05:19:37 PM
.
You must not have been paying attention, as usual.
(https://www.fossweb.com/delegate/ssi-foss-ucm/Contribution%20Folders/FOSS/multimedia/Planetary_Science/binders/images/main/eclipse99_mir_big.jpg)
                Behold a curved ocean photo.
.
BTW if it's data you want, go to the source page.
.
Fake.
Since it's from NASA, it will always be assumed fake.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 23, 2018, 05:29:17 PM
Fake.
Since it's from NASA, it will always be assumed fake.
.
Wrong, again, or should I say, as usual -- it's not from "NASA" so try again, loser.
.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Truth is Eternal on February 23, 2018, 06:29:27 PM
.
Wrong, again, or should I say, as usual -- it's not from "NASA" so try again, loser.
.
Of course it's fake.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: hismajesty on February 23, 2018, 06:46:37 PM


 Here's what's interesting.  Globe-earthers, because of their premise that the earth MUST be round, will insist that refraction is a certainty, while flat earthers will claim that refraction could not have caused the phenomenon.  Both are certain of their interpretation a priori because they are essentially begging the question, taking their conclusion for granted. 



Appreciate much your inquiring mind Ladislaus, but just have to correct you on that one point. Flat earthers do not say that refraction does not exist. We say in particular cases there can be atmospheric distortion. Such is the case with mirages. However it can't be refraction in cases where the image is too integral and steady. It is in those cases the thing itself albeit distant and seen through the humidity of the air.

And by the way, we are talking about AIR refraction as opposed to WATER refraction. I would love to see air refraction demonstrated outside of an argument about the flat earth, being other than over a horizon. Do the planes I see in the air get refracted?

Just asking.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: hismajesty on February 23, 2018, 06:49:17 PM
Neils video was very interesting. All it does is show that there can exist a certain atmospheric distortion. People should bear in mind that it was taken over the course of a day, and a lot of the reason we see changes in the mountain height is because of the tides.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Ladislaus on February 24, 2018, 02:27:12 PM
Appreciate much your inquiring mind Ladislaus, but just have to correct you on that one point. Flat earthers do not say that refraction does not exist.

I never said flat earthers say there's no such thing as refraction ... just say that refraction isn't in play in pictures/videos which they adduce as proof against earth curvature.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 25, 2018, 09:00:11 PM
I never said flat earthers say there's no such thing as refraction ... just say that refraction isn't in play in pictures/videos which they adduce as proof against earth curvature.
.
The litany of flat-earthrs' claims of "proof" is astounding. Every claim they make is false! 
.
We ought to make a list!
.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 25, 2018, 09:01:04 PM
Neils video was very interesting. 
.
Thank you. It's nice to be appreciated.
.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: kiwiboy on February 26, 2018, 03:36:31 AM
I never said flat earthers say there's no such thing as refraction ... just say that refraction isn't in play in pictures/videos which they adduce as proof against earth curvature.

They are insignificant to the overall point being made in the video. If even 100 feet is visible that is not refracted, then our case has been made. We could just rely on one video. But we have several.
Title: Re: Inferior Image Experiment - Conducted Without Bias - Earth is Not Flat!
Post by: Neil Obstat on February 27, 2018, 10:10:09 PM
They are insignificant to the overall point being made in the video. If even 100 feet is visible that is not refracted, then our case has been made. We could just rely on one video. But we have several.
.
You have hundreds of videos all full of fakery and lies. 
.
I provided one example of an honest, no holds-barred simple video and it's somehow unreliable because it's only one?
.
Maybe there are a lot more of these but I haven't seen them yet.
.
I wouldn't have found this one without flat-earthers screaming and shouting their "flat" earth nonsense.
.