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Author Topic: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth  (Read 23193 times)

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Offline Tradman

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #100 on: July 21, 2023, 08:18:18 AM »
Quote from: St Giles on July 21, 2023, 07:11:42 AM
So, what's your point? Rockets only need most of their fuel before reaching space to accelerate and overcome air resistance. Once in space, not as much fuel is needed because there is practically nothing to slow them down. When talking about rocket fuel oxygen is considered part of it, unlike in airplanes where only the non oxygen component is called fuel.

What, and the rocket doesn't need to burn fuel to maneuver? Or burn fuel to return?  How does a rocket exit the earth that is supposedly travelling at 67,000 mph one direction, some 500,000 another direction and ever hope to catch back up?     
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Offline St Giles

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #101 on: July 22, 2023, 09:28:37 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on July 21, 2023, 07:55:52 AM
Not exactly.  It's less about air resistance than in achieving "escape velocity" from the earth's "gravity" (since you believe in gravity).  Interestingly, Werner von Braun felt early on that achieving escape velocity was not possible, saying something along the lines of needing a rocket the size of the Empire State Building to make it happen, explaining the paradox in the fact that the more fuel you add to the rocket (increasing it in size) the more thrust is needed to achieve escape velocity.
I said "to accelerate and overcome air resistance", so I had acceleration (obviously to however fast needed including escape velocity) covered.

Quote from: Tradman on July 21, 2023, 08:18:18 AM

What, and the rocket doesn't need to burn fuel to maneuver? Or burn fuel to return?  How does a rocket exit the earth that is supposedly travelling at 67,000 mph one direction, some 500,000 another direction and ever hope to catch back up?   
They carry the oxygen in a tank with them, and yes the maneuvering fuel is very limited. Ion thrusters can also be used. The rocket doesn't step off a speeding bullet (earth) into still air (space), It is already going the same speed as earth (if earth really is flying around the sun and galaxy) apart from the speed reached to leave earth. They carefully plan these flights. Most only send something into orbit, so maneuvering is minimal. Shooting for a lap around the moon can use the moon's gravity to help overcome earth's gravity, and a "slingshot" effect around the moon to get back if they pass the moon on the correct side. This isn't like in most sci-fi shows where if the rocket's engines turn off the thing comes to a stop in the middle of space. It's called space for a reason, there's no air, so nothing to slow it down other than some source of gravity, which could speed it up with no fuel burned depending on which direction it is flying. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this stuff. I'm not saying I'm proving that rockets flying in empty space is real, I just saying that it is quite possible. The impossibility of space flight is no proof for a water filled firmament because space flight is conceptually very possible.
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Offline Tradman

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #102 on: July 23, 2023, 09:35:32 AM »
Quote from: St Giles on July 22, 2023, 09:28:37 PM
I said "to accelerate and overcome air resistance", so I had acceleration (obviously to however fast needed including escape velocity) covered.
They carry the oxygen in a tank with them, and yes the maneuvering fuel is very limited. Ion thrusters can also be used. The rocket doesn't step off a speeding bullet (earth) into still air (space), It is already going the same speed as earth (if earth really is flying around the sun and galaxy) apart from the speed reached to leave earth. They carefully plan these flights. Most only send something into orbit, so maneuvering is minimal. Shooting for a lap around the moon can use the moon's gravity to help overcome earth's gravity, and a "slingshot" effect around the moon to get back if they pass the moon on the correct side. This isn't like in most sci-fi shows where if the rocket's engines turn off the thing comes to a stop in the middle of space. It's called space for a reason, there's no air, so nothing to slow it down other than some source of gravity, which could speed it up with no fuel burned depending on which direction it is flying. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this stuff. I'm not saying I'm proving that rockets flying in empty space is real, I just saying that it is quite possible. The impossibility of space flight is no proof for a water filled firmament because space flight is conceptually very possible.

No oxygen or fuel needed for maneuvers in space? When...before or after the 60's moon landing? Spaceships cling to the earth via gravity, then pop over to the moon without drifting or getting off track? The spaceship magically maintains position while everything is blasting through "space" at 500,000 mph?  Travels a distance 500,000 miles with no need for fuel? Clings to the earth which is going it's own direction at 67,000 mph? Then hops on over to the moon's gravity with a sling shot round-about? No need to dodge space debris? Little fuel to avoid other bodies like meteors? No need for combustion the entire time? Oh boy. Santa has a better story than that. 

Sorry to burst the space bubble, it's the lying idiots working for the government providing creative writers' fables to spin more and more sophisticated yarns, so they can laugh like hyenas at people that believe all the made up nonsense about space travel.   

The firmament is not filled with water.  Water is above the firmament.  Any vehicle that flies stays under that dome, in the atmosphere, and uses fuel and oxygen.   

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Offline Tradman

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #103 on: July 23, 2023, 09:51:03 AM »
Wondering how a spaceship communicates 238,000 miles through space, from earth to moon and back, when sound doesn't travel through a vacuum. :popcorn:

The radio waves with the longest length that NASA claims can in no way supply or substitute because they travel in a direct line only.


Microwaves travel by line-of-sight; unlike lower frequency radio waves, they do not diffract around hills, follow the earth's surface as ground waves, or reflect from the ionosphere, so terrestrial microwave communication links are limited by the visual horizon to about 40 miles (64 km).
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: How Sunrise and Sunset Work on Flat Earth
« Reply #104 on: July 23, 2023, 10:42:48 AM »
Quote from: Tradman on July 23, 2023, 09:51:03 AM
Wondering how a spaceship communicates 238,000 miles through space, from earth to moon and back, when sound doesn't travel through a vacuum. :popcorn:

The radio waves with the longest length that NASA claims can in no way supply or substitute because they travel in a direct line only.


Microwaves travel by line-of-sight; unlike lower frequency radio waves, they do not diffract around hills, follow the earth's surface as ground waves, or reflect from the ionosphere, so terrestrial microwave communication links are limited by the visual horizon to about 40 miles (64 km).

I have a serious problem with the allegation that we have the Webb telescope a million miles away broadcasting high definition images.  Everyone knows that the more concentrated the signal, the shorter the range.  Also, to get decent bandwidth, you really have to target the signal.  How do you do that when Webb is speeding through space at high speed, the earth is moving around the sun at 65,000 MPH and rotating at upwards of 1000MPH?  At a million miles away the earth looks pretty small, and a satellite receiver (I don't care if it's the size of a football field) would be so tiny as to be undetectable even if Webb turned its optics towards it.  Finally, the POWER required to transmit a signal that far would not be possible on a satellite.  If they had the technology now to broadcast signals this far, they wouldn't need to put 5G transmitters every couple blocks.  That also speaks to the fact that the more concentrated and "high-bandwidth" a signal has to be, the shorter the range.  With 4G, you could put up towers every mile or so and you'd be fine.  With 5G, you need a transmitter every few blocks to make it work.

Speaking of line-of-sight microwaves, the world record high-bandwidth microwave transmission goes across the Mediterranean Sea, I think nearly 300 miles.  Microwave must be line of sight, but over 300 miles, there would be over a mile or two of globe curvature putting the receiver out of sight.  Specs from the company indicated that the receiver tower is about 150 feet high.
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