Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: Meg on March 07, 2018, 01:13:56 PM

Title: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 07, 2018, 01:13:56 PM
 
Since Neil has said in the past that he's a geocentrist, I'd like to see him explain how he reconciles geocentrism with modern science, since modern science does not believe in geocentrism. Modern science is staunchly heliocentric.

Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 07, 2018, 01:19:14 PM

Since Neil has said in the past that he's a geocentrist, I'd like to see him explain how he reconciles geocentrism with modern science, since modern science does not believe in geocentrism. Modern science is staunchly heliocentric.
.
First thing, you've already come out swinging against a strawman. Modern science is absolutely NOT "heliocentric." 
.
Modern astronomers, astrophysicists and mathematicians have long ago abandoned heliocentrism.
.
Maybe you missed the memo.
.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 07, 2018, 01:25:18 PM
.
First thing, you've already come out swinging against a strawman. Modern science is absolutely NOT "heliocentric."
.
Modern astronomers, astrophysicists and mathematicians have long ago abandoned heliocentrism.
.
Maybe you missed the memo.
.


So NASA promotes and believes in geocentrism? I guess I missed that memo. Can you please provide data which shows this?
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 07, 2018, 01:30:17 PM

So NASA promotes and believes in geocentrism? I guess I missed that memo. Can you please provide data which shows this?
.
Have you taken a class in physics or statics? Did you pass College Algebra? 
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 07, 2018, 01:59:26 PM

So NASA promotes and believes in geocentrism? I guess I missed that memo. Can you please provide data which shows this?

So, Neil, you're refusing to answer the question.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 07, 2018, 02:05:38 PM

Neil,

Why is it so difficult to explain how you reconcile geocentrism with modern science? You have not shown that modern science is geocentric.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 07, 2018, 02:55:39 PM
Neil,

Why is it so difficult to explain how you reconcile geocentrism with modern science? You have not shown that modern science is geocentric.
.
In the past I have found it impossible to converse with someone who is unqualified in the topic of discussion.
.
So I asked you about your background in order to avoid this problem.
.
But you have either not understood my questions, or perhaps, you feel ashamed at the answers you don't want to give me.
.
I know you wouldn't tell me something that isn't true, but you have not responded to my prerequisite inquiry.
.
Do you remember what questions I asked you?
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: happenby on March 07, 2018, 03:57:27 PM
.
First thing, you've already come out swinging against a strawman. Modern science is absolutely NOT "heliocentric."
.
Modern astronomers, astrophysicists and mathematicians have long ago abandoned heliocentrism.
.
Maybe you missed the memo.
.
Modern science has only very recently hinted at moving away from heliocentric theory, and that, only in part. They do not (always) say that the sun is at the center of the universe.  Big hairy deal!  They still pretend without proof that earth is a whirling, spinning ball hurtling through space at hoo wee! 1000, 67,000 550,000 and 1,000,000 mph, 4 different directions at the same time!  :facepalm:  So, that's basically heliocentrism.  They do not say earth is a stationary ball in the middle of the universe.  Why?  Because that model doesn't work.  Without the daily turn on its axis, how do sun and moon work to bring about day and night and seasons?  And, if it does spin, that denies not only Scripture but the Church who quite specifically condemned a moving earth. Further, the distances to stars, sun and moon are identical in all pagan globe theories which deny the existence of the firmament clearly described in Scripture, not to mention the water above the firmament.  In addition science doesn't even address the windows of heaven that opened to bring about Noah's Great Flood.  Modern geocentrism is a nonsensical prevarication based on the heliocentric model and chock full of pagan garbage.  Robert Sungenis and buddy Rick Delano are probably modern shills backed by NASA. The last statement is a guess, but I'd personally bank some decent money on it.       
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 07, 2018, 04:24:39 PM
.
Case in point.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Smedley Butler on March 07, 2018, 04:38:21 PM
Don't waste your time,  Meg.

Modern science teaches a heliocentric SOLAR SYSTEM. 

FULL STOP.

Neil is a liar. There is no memo.

Neil also NOT a geocentrist.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 08, 2018, 09:44:09 AM
.
In the past I have found it impossible to converse with someone who is unqualified in the topic of discussion.
.
So I asked you about your background in order to avoid this problem.
.
But you have either not understood my questions, or perhaps, you feel ashamed at the answers you don't want to give me.
.
I know you wouldn't tell me something that isn't true, but you have not responded to my prerequisite inquiry.
.
Do you remember what questions I asked you?

Oh, so I'm unqualified to ask you the question. So.....in order for you answer the question about how it is that you reconcile geocentrism with modern science, first you have to find out how "qualified" I am. That's hilarious Neil.

You obviously just don't want to address the question in a direct and honest manner. Maybe Smedley is right. You aren't actually a geocentrist, as you have said you are in the past. Geocentrism, in the Sungenis model, is dumb anyway, and makes about as much sense as heliocentrism. 
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 08, 2018, 10:51:25 AM
Oh, so I'm unqualified to ask you the question. 
.
I didn't say that. You can ask all you want but it seems you're not going to understand my answer.
.
Quote
So.....in order for you answer the question about how it is that you reconcile geocentrism with modern science, first you have to find out how "qualified" I am. That's hilarious Neil. 
.
I'm so glad you find this entertaining. Have fun, then.
.

Quote
You obviously just don't want to address the question in a direct and honest manner.
.
So in your ignorance you presume to pass judgment on what you can't comprehend. Okaaaay.
.
Quote
 Maybe Smedley is right. 
.
Think again. Smedley is wrong with practically every sentence he writes, so this would be no surprise.
.
Quote
You aren't actually a geocentrist, as you have said you are in the past. Geocentrism, in the Sungenis model, is dumb anyway, and makes about as much sense as heliocentrism. 
.
As you wish. Carry on. 
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 08, 2018, 11:04:38 AM
.
I didn't say that. You can ask all you want but it seems you're not going to understand my answer.
..
I'm so glad you find this entertaining. Have fun, then.
.
.
So in your ignorance you presume to pass judgment on what you can't comprehend. Okaaaay.
..
Think again. Smedley is wrong with practically every sentence he writes, so this would be no surprise.
..
As you wish. Carry on.

You frequently post supposedly scientific information that you want flat-earthers to read and consider, and some of it is quite technical and difficult to understand. And yet you won't answer this question, because you think that I might not understand your answer. 

Does this mean that you will no longer post anything that may be in any way complicated or difficult to understand?
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 08, 2018, 12:15:37 PM
You frequently post supposedly scientific information that you want flat-earthers to read and consider, and some of it is quite technical and difficult to understand. And yet you won't answer this question, because you think that I might not understand your answer.

Does this mean that you will no longer post anything that may be in any way complicated or difficult to understand?
.
When I want to see something complicated or difficult to understand all I need to do is look at any of the explanations that flat-earthers provide for things like why do the sun and moon appear the same size as the move across the sky, or why can we see them descend over the horizon at over 80 degrees from the horizontal? 
And I know I have the necessary background to discuss these things, plus I can see them contradict themselves with each sentence.
.
On the other hand, I have been misunderstood so often that perhaps I'm learning a lesson.
When you try to explain something to someone who doesn't have the necessary background you get nowhere.
And when I have tried to provide the background all the flat-earthers can do is heckle, deride and jump topic.
So that tells me that flat-earthers do not want to learn anything.
.
Prove me wrong by being willing to take the first step. Are you willing to take the first step or not?
.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Ladislaus on March 08, 2018, 12:41:21 PM
... why can we see them descend over the horizon at over 80 degrees from the horizontal?

Now this is a key point.  If the earth is flat and the sun/moon don't go up and down on their course, how do they appear to set behind the horizon line?  Are they merely converging optically somehow with the horizon?
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 08, 2018, 01:32:18 PM
Now this is a key point.  If the earth is flat and the sun/moon don't go up and down on their course, how do they appear to set behind the horizon line?  Are they merely converging optically somehow with the horizon?
.
It's a thorn in the side of flat-earthers. They even made a whole video (at LEAST one) trying to explain this.
.
They shot the video inside the arctic circle and pretended that it was down around the 40 degrees latitude line.
So it was total deception all the way.
North of the arctic circle during summer the sun never sets for at least a day, and longer the further north you go.
So they show a time-lapse video of the sun going around the camera without setting.
Okay, that's what it does north of the arctic circle.
But they never say that's where they're shooting it.
They deliberately picked a place with very little snow on the ground.
Guess why?
It's prettier with green grass? I don't think that's the reason.
With green grass they can pretend they are on the 40th parallel. 
.
They show the sun approaching the horizon and then sliding along sideways as if that's what it does everywhere.
-- And from an airplane flying west the sun appears to hover over the horizon.
-- From an airplane at low elevation at sunset you can climb a few thousand feet and see the sun set AGAIN.
-- And it does so a lot further away than 30 miles from 20,000 feet, due to earth's curvature.
.
But NEVER MIND the fact that every time we see a full moon around the 35th parallel we can tell where the sun is.
And the sun is not skimming the northern horizon but is rather directly under our feet when the moon is overhead.
We know that's where it is because the moon's FULL appearance has no shadows at the bottom.
In fact, the full moon NEVER has a shadow at the bottom, which it would if the sun and moon were above a "flat" earth.
.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Smedley Butler on March 08, 2018, 01:40:54 PM
They converge OPTICALLY.

They do not literally go up & down.

Watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLMp5jGtHw
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 09, 2018, 09:40:34 AM
.
When I want to see something complicated or difficult to understand all I need to do is look at any of the explanations that flat-earthers provide for things like why do the sun and moon appear the same size as the move across the sky, or why can we see them descend over the horizon at over 80 degrees from the horizontal?
And I know I have the necessary background to discuss these things, plus I can see them contradict themselves with each sentence.
.
On the other hand, I have been misunderstood so often that perhaps I'm learning a lesson.
When you try to explain something to someone who doesn't have the necessary background you get nowhere.
And when I have tried to provide the background all the flat-earthers can do is heckle, deride and jump topic.
So that tells me that flat-earthers do not want to learn anything.
.
Prove me wrong by being willing to take the first step. Are you willing to take the first step or not?
.

I was addressing the issue of how you post complicated scientific or mathematical information, and then expect flat-earthers to get it. But you don't want to post anything about how it is that you reconcile geocentrism with modern science. That doesn't make sense.

Or, maybe what you're really doing when posting complicated info is to flaunt your supposed expertise, in order to make flat earthers look ignorant, which is a form of pride on your part. In any case, you don't want to address the issue of how you reconcile geocentrism with modern science.

Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 09, 2018, 09:49:30 AM
.
And I know I have the necessary background to discuss these things, plus I can see them contradict themselves with each sentence.

Your background is in globe earth science, which we reject. 

It's like a Novus Ordo theologian who is trying to convince traditional Catholics that his views of theology are the only right and proper views. Trads are going to reject it, of course. 
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Smedley Butler on March 09, 2018, 10:18:27 AM
Neil is not a geocentrist.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: happenby on March 09, 2018, 10:32:59 AM
So let's reassess everything to date.  The resident globe earther on these threads repeatedly bashes flat earthers with various insults, yet simultaneously eschews some of science's Copernican teachings from which he gets most of his "proofs".   He also condemns flat earthers for not providing a complete model while he apparently does not have one himself.  He completely excludes all prior Catholic Fathers on the subject unless the quotes are vague or taken out of context.  Scripture is inadmissible according to him because it is too convoluted.  Worst of all, he derides others for not 'getting it' because he says he's made his position clear!  This is not someone trying to discover or promote truth, but a person committed to cut off the discussion.

         
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 09, 2018, 10:34:41 AM
Neil is not a geocentrist.

If so, it would be a good thing if he would just admit to that. 

I mean, those who believe in a flat earth are clear about where we stand. No need to hide anything. 
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Ladislaus on March 09, 2018, 11:09:42 AM
They converge OPTICALLY.

They do not literally go up & down.

Watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzLMp5jGtHw

Not sure about this.  It would seem that the angles would depend on where you're located on the earth.  I'd have to figure that out but I don't have the time.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Smedley Butler on March 09, 2018, 12:03:31 PM
Neil is on record stating our solar system is heliocentric.


He also likes to say "scientists" no longer believe heliocentrism, which is a lie.

So, about what you would expect from a forked-tongue NASA. employee. 
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Smedley Butler on March 09, 2018, 12:08:46 PM
This explains it well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epFuMxnd5Kk
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: happenby on March 09, 2018, 01:21:10 PM
I have some questions.

As long as we maintain that the Earth is the center of this Solar System, can we believe what modern science tells us about the rest of the Universe?

What must we believe about relationship of Earth to the rest of the Universe?

Is Geocentrism a necessary belief as it pertains to just the Solar System or is it necessary to believe in relation to the entire Universe? Is Earth just the center of the Solar System or the entire Universe?
The proportions of false cosmology distort the size of the universe saying that space dwarfs the earth, when Scripture says heaven and earth are bound together and divided by the firmament.  The pagans have always said the universe was boundless, and that earth was a tiny insignificant planet among many others, suggesting a Godless origin of the cosmos.  Rather, as Scripture and the Fathers describe, the earth is at the center, like a wheel.  Earth sits on water, but above hell, as well as under the heavenly firmament.  I've provided a couple of excerpts below.
Why believe modern science at all?  They lie about everything.  About the Big Bang, heliocentrism, evolution, moon walking etc.  We actually have Fathers of the Church and ancient civilizations telling us about cosmology. Some are not infallible, but could they be worse than modern science? 
The book of Job describes a geocentric universe, with earth welded to the heavens like a square block of stone.
"The Deity accordingly having founded the Earth, which is oblong, upon its own stability, bound together the extremities of the heaven with the extremities of the Earth, making the nether extremities of the heaven rest upon the four extremities of the Earth, while on high he formed it into a most lofty vault over-spanning the length of the Earth. Along the breadth again of the Earth he built a wall from the nethermost extremities of the heavens upwards to the summit, and having enclosed the place, made a house, as one might call it, of enormous size, like an oblong vapour bath. For, saith the Prophet Isaiah (xlix, 22), He who established heaven as a vault. With regard moreover to the glueing together of the heaven and the Earth, we find this written in Job: He has inclined heaven to earth, and it has been poured out as the dust of the earth. I have welded it as a square block of stone."  Pg 182 Christian Topography 


Although not free from error, but certainly not less reliable than modern science, ancients digress on the geocentric flat earth all the time.  For instance, the division of the waters around and under the earth is elaborately explained in the Book of Jubilees   Below is a snippet.
“And on the third day He (God) commanded the waters to pass from off the face of the whole earth into one place, and the dry land to appear. And the waters did so as He commanded them, and they retired from off the face of the earth into one place outside of this firmament, and the dry land appeared. And on that day He created for them all the rivers, and the gatherings of the waters in the
mountains and on all the earth, and all the lakes, and all the dew of the earth.”

What has been shared on Cathinfo is fraction of what is available in English, and there are many texts in other languages, as well. 
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 10, 2018, 04:36:56 AM
Yeah, He spread them out in Genesis and rolls them up like a scroll in The Apocalypse (Revelations).  Stars falling to Earth in The Apocalypse.  They're obviously much smaller, than depicted on television and Time magazine.  
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 15, 2018, 12:06:28 PM
Yeah, He spread them out in Genesis and rolls them up like a scroll in The Apocalypse (Revelations).  Stars falling to Earth in The Apocalypse.  They're obviously much smaller, than depicted on television and Time magazine.  
.
Many of the Church's theologians and exegetes say the stars falling to earth in Scripture is allegory for priests and consecrated people losing their way and becoming corrupted. It is a spiritual falling away, IOW.
.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 15, 2018, 10:21:26 PM
.
Many of the Church's theologians and exegetes say the stars falling to earth in Scripture is allegory for priests and consecrated people losing their way and becoming corrupted. It is a spiritual falling away, IOW.
.
And every day of Creation is a thousand years or a million or a billion or whatever we need them to be at the moment.   

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day-age_creationism

(https://rapidbi.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/RapidBI-Cartoon-130.png)
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: aryzia on March 16, 2018, 10:04:00 AM
.
Many of the Church's theologians and exegetes say the stars falling to earth in Scripture is allegory for priests and consecrated people losing their way and becoming corrupted. It is a spiritual falling away, IOW.
.
It's not just either/or, it's both/and. Scripture reveals to us truths on many levels.  Stars are likened to priests and consecrated people, but stars are also physical things. If Scripture says a star come down to show the place where baby Jesus lay, you can be sure a star came down and did just that. No doubt there are analogies as well. Same with stars falling from the sky.  If people reduce everything to the allegorical and skip the literal, what would scripture have to offer except some cryptic message strictly for the learned and subject to interpretation contrary to the literal? God works with allegory and types not to confuse but to support the literal and to clarify.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 16, 2018, 11:12:04 PM
It's not just either/or, it's both/and. Scripture reveals to us truths on many levels.  Stars are likened to priests and consecrated people, but stars are also physical things. If Scripture says a star come down to show the place where baby Jesus lay, you can be sure a star came down and did just that. No doubt there are analogies as well. Same with stars falling from the sky.  If people reduce everything to the allegorical and skip the literal, what would scripture have to offer except some cryptic message strictly for the learned and subject to interpretation contrary to the literal? God works with allegory and types not to confuse but to support the literal and to clarify.
.
We don't have to ignore the literal meaning of Scripture to appreciate its allegorical meaning. 
.
The Apocalypse of St. John is written in a manner that is not meant to be literally understood as much as it is allegorical. Perhaps you're not familiar with apocalyptic prophesy. That has something to do with us calling this the Book of the Apocalypse. It says the dragon's tail drew the third part of the stars from heaven and cast them to the earth. Do you suppose that means there is a great red dragon flying around up there, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems with a magnet for a tail, drawing stars around like iron marbles? It SAYS "drew" them and "cast them to the earth" you know. Or maybe it means that the dragon's tail drew one-third of EACH star and cast THAT to the earth.
.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: WholeFoodsTrad on March 17, 2018, 03:24:16 PM
The Futurist View

"The fourth view is the futurist view. This view teaches that the events of the Olivet Discourse and Revelation chapters 4-22 will occur in the future. Futurist divide the book of Revelation into three sections as indicated in 1:19: “what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.” Chapter 1 describes the past (“what you have seen”), chapters 2-3 describe the present (“what is now”), and the rest of the book describes future events (“what will take place later”).

Futurists apply a literal approach to interpreting Revelation. Chapters 4-19 refer to a period known as the seven-year tribulation (Dan. 9:27). During this time, God’s judgments are actually poured out upon mankind as they are revealed in the seals, trumpets, and bowls. Chapter 13 describes a literal future world empire headed by a political and religious leader represented by the two beasts. Chapter 17 pictures a harlot who represents the church in apostasy. Chapter 19 refers to Christ’s second coming and the battle of Armageddon followed by a literal thousand-year rule of Christ upon the earth in chapter 20. Chapters 21-22 are events that follow the millennium: the creation of a new heaven and a new earth and the arrival of the heavenly city upon the earth.

Futurists argue that a consistently literal or plain interpretation is to be applied in understanding the book of Revelation. Literal interpretation of the Bible means to explain the original sense, or meaning, of the Bible according to the normal customary usage of its language. This means applying the rules of grammar, staying consistent with the historical framework, and the context of the writing. Literal interpretation does not discount figurative or symbolic language. Futurists teach that prophecies using symbolic language are also to be normally interpreted according to the laws of language. J. P. Lange stated,

The literalist (so called) is not one who denies that figurative language, that symbols, are used in prophecy, nor does he deny that great spiritual truths are set forth therein; his position is, simply, that the prophecies are to be normally interpreted (i.e., according to the received laws of language) as any other utterances are interpreted – that which is manifestly figurative being so regarded.{17}

Charles Ryrie also states,

Symbols, figures of speech and types are all interpreted plainly in this method, and they are in no way contrary to literal interpretation. After all, the very existence of any meaning for a figure of speech depends on the reality of the literal meaning of the terms involved. Figures often make the meaning plainer, but it is the literal, normal, or plain meaning that they convey to the reader.{18}

Futurists acknowledge the use of figures and symbols. When figurative language is used, one must look at the context to find the meaning. However, figurative language does not justify allegorical interpretation.

Futurists contend that the literal interpretation of Revelation finds its roots in the ancient church fathers. Elements of this teaching, such as a future millennial kingdom, are found in the writings of Clement of Rome (AD 96), Justin Martyr (AD 100-165), Irenaeus (AD 115-202), Tertullian (AD 150-225) and others. Futurists hold that the church fathers taught a literal interpretation of Revelation until Origen (AD 185-254) introduced allegorical interpretation. This then became the popular form of interpretation when taught by Augustine (AD 354-430).{19} Literal interpretation of Revelation remained throughout the history of the church and rose again to prominence in the modern era."

https://probe.org/four-views-of-revelation/
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: happenby on March 17, 2018, 05:07:54 PM
.
We don't have to ignore the literal meaning of Scripture to appreciate its allegorical meaning.
.
The Apocalypse of St. John is written in a manner that is not meant to be literally understood as much as it is allegorical. Perhaps you're not familiar with apocalyptic prophesy. That has something to do with us calling this the Book of the Apocalypse. It says the dragon's tail drew the third part of the stars from heaven and cast them to the earth. Do you suppose that means there is a great red dragon flying around up there, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems with a magnet for a tail, drawing stars around like iron marbles? It SAYS "drew" them and "cast them to the earth" you know. Or maybe it means that the dragon's tail drew one-third of EACH star and cast THAT to the earth.
.
Funny how people make things up as they go and think they know.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 17, 2018, 07:20:34 PM
Funny how people make things up as they go and think they know.
.
Don't tell me:  you have your own description of apocalyptic literature for everyone to see?
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: cassini on March 18, 2018, 07:08:18 AM

Since Neil has said in the past that he's a geocentrist, I'd like to see him explain how he reconciles geocentrism with modern science, since modern science does not believe in geocentrism. Modern science is staunchly heliocentric.

As a global geocentrist I should like to answer the above question. 'Modern science' has, since 1905 at least, admitted relativity. In other words it admits the universe could be geocentric or heliocentric.

What people believe it is does not change the position of 'modern science.'

Finally, just to show how NASA operates, here is an interesting letter:
Royal Air Force College
Cranwell, Lincolnshire, England.
 
‘Sir, ... One can of course believe anything one likes as long as the consequences of the belief are trivial. But when survival [and success] depends on that belief, then it matters that belief corresponds to manifest reality. We therefore teach navigators that the stars are fixed to the Celestial sphere, which is centred on a fixed Earth, and around which it rotates in accordance with laws clearly deducible from common-sense observation. The sun and moon move across the inner surface of this sphere, and hence perforce go around the Earth. This means that students of navigation must unlearn a lot of confused dogma they learned in school. Most of them find this remarkably easy, because dogma is as may be, but the real world is as we perceive it to be. If Andrew Hill will look in the Journal of Navigation he will find that the Earth-centred Universe is alive and well, whatever his readings of the Spectator may suggest.  Yours, Darcy Reddyhoff.’



When it comes to working out eclipses etc., according to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, it is the geocentric reality mathematics that is used. But watch how they again play mind-games when admitting this:

 ‘For this purpose [making calculations] it is convenient first to consider the Earth as fixed and to suppose the observer looking out from its centre…’--- Encyclopaedia Britannica (Eclipse, p.869).  


Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: aryzia on March 19, 2018, 08:06:38 AM
Funny, the 'Church' seems to have embraced 'relativity' right about the same time.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Meg on March 19, 2018, 10:03:58 AM
As a global geocentrist I should like to answer the above question. 'Modern science' has, since 1905 at least, admitted relativity. In other words it admits the universe could be geocentric or heliocentric.

What people believe it is does not change the position of 'modern science.'

Finally, just to show how NASA operates, here is an interesting letter:
Royal Air Force College
Cranwell, Lincolnshire, England.
 
‘Sir, ... One can of course believe anything one likes as long as the consequences of the belief are trivial. But when survival [and success] depends on that belief, then it matters that belief corresponds to manifest reality. We therefore teach navigators that the stars are fixed to the Celestial sphere, which is centred on a fixed Earth, and around which it rotates in accordance with laws clearly deducible from common-sense observation. The sun and moon move across the inner surface of this sphere, and hence perforce go around the Earth. This means that students of navigation must unlearn a lot of confused dogma they learned in school. Most of them find this remarkably easy, because dogma is as may be, but the real world is as we perceive it to be. If Andrew Hill will look in the Journal of Navigation he will find that the Earth-centred Universe is alive and well, whatever his readings of the Spectator may suggest.  Yours, Darcy Reddyhoff.’



When it comes to working out eclipses etc., according to the Encyclopaedia Britannica, it is the geocentric reality mathematics that is used. But watch how they again play mind-games when admitting this:

‘For this purpose [making calculations] it is convenient first to consider the Earth as fixed and to suppose the observer looking out from its centre…’--- Encyclopaedia Britannica (Eclipse, p.869).  

One obscure letter does not prove that modern science has admitted relativity. Does this letter really represent all of modern science everywhere? Please show scientific journals that say that everyone in the science field believes that the universe could be geocentric. And then you would have to show how this has trickled down to the average person. I don't know of anyone outside of this forum who believes in geocentrism (of course there is Robert Sungenis). The children are still taught heliocentrism in public and religious schools.  

Evidently, the way in which you have reconciled geocentrism with modern science is to believe that modern science is open to the idea that the universe can be geocentric. Evidently, 'modern science' itself hasn't got the memo yet.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: happenby on March 19, 2018, 04:19:33 PM
One obscure letter does not prove that modern science has admitted relativity. Does this letter really represent all of modern science everywhere? Please show scientific journals that say that everyone in the science field believes that the universe could be geocentric. And then you would have to show how this has trickled down to the average person. I don't know of anyone outside of this forum who believes in geocentrism (of course there is Robert Sungenis). The children are still taught heliocentrism in public and religious schools.  

Evidently, the way in which you have reconciled geocentrism with modern science is to believe that modern science is open to the idea that the universe can be geocentric. Evidently, 'modern science' itself hasn't got the memo yet.
Flat earth is the original geocentric model.  Globe geocentrism, the notion that the earth is a stationary globe is nonsense.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: cassini on March 19, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
One obscure letter does not prove that modern science has admitted relativity. Does this letter really represent all of modern science everywhere? Please show scientific journals that say that everyone in the science field believes that the universe could be geocentric. And then you would have to show how this has trickled down to the average person. I don't know of anyone outside of this forum who believes in geocentrism (of course there is Robert Sungenis). The children are still taught heliocentrism in public and religious schools.  

Evidently, the way in which you have reconciled geocentrism with modern science is to believe that modern science is open to the idea that the universe can be geocentric. Evidently, 'modern science' itself hasn't got the memo yet.

‘Whether the Earth rotates once a day from west to east as Copernicus taught, or the heavens revolve once a day from east to west as his predecessors believed, the observable phenomena will be exactly the same. This shows a defect in Newtonian dynamics, since an empirical science ought not to contain a metaphysical assumption that cannot be proved or disproved by observation.’[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20THE%20BOOK.doc#_ftn1)



[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20THE%20BOOK.doc#_ftnref1) Bertrand Russell: quoted in D. D. Sciama’s The Unity of the Universe, p.18.



https://physicsofcreation.wordpress.com/2016/08/18/relative-motion/ (https://physicsofcreation.wordpress.com/2016/08/18/relative-motion/)
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Smedley Butler on March 22, 2018, 08:51:41 AM
‘Whether the Earth rotates once a day from west to east as Copernicus taught, or the heavens revolve once a day from east to west as his predecessors believed, the observable phenomena will be exactly the same. This shows a defect in Newtonian dynamics, since an empirical science ought not to contain a metaphysical assumption that cannot be proved or disproved by observation.’[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20THE%20BOOK.doc#_ftn1)



[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20THE%20BOOK.doc#_ftnref1) Bertrand Russell: quoted in D. D. Sciama’s The Unity of the Universe, p.18.



https://physicsofcreation.wordpress.com/2016/08/18/relative-motion/ (https://physicsofcreation.wordpress.com/2016/08/18/relative-motion/)
You just quoted Bertrand Russell,  well-known atheist & occultist, as proof of relative motion.
There is no relative motion. 
Earth does not rotate.
You cannot contradict the Bible which says earth does NOT move.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: aryzia on March 23, 2018, 02:53:28 PM
You just quoted Bertrand Russell,  well-known atheist & occultist, as proof of relative motion.
There is no relative motion.
Earth does not rotate.
You cannot contradict the Bible which says earth does NOT move.
Globalist are forced to draw from pagan sources because the globe earth model sprang from the occult. They got nobody else.
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Maria Regina on March 23, 2018, 03:05:25 PM

For Neil Obstat: thought you might like to see this awesome new global map from NOAA.
.
https://weather.com/news/trending/video/noaa-provides-incredibly-detailed-animation-of-the-ocean-floor
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: happenby on March 23, 2018, 03:53:59 PM
For Neil Obstat: thought you might like to see this awesome new global map from NOAA.
.
https://weather.com/news/trending/video/noaa-provides-incredibly-detailed-animation-of-the-ocean-floor
:laugh1: :laugh2:
Title: Re: How does Neil Obstat reconcile geocentrism with modern science?
Post by: Neil Obstat on March 23, 2018, 06:59:21 PM
For Neil Obstat: thought you might like to see this awesome new global map from NOAA.
.
https://weather.com/news/trending/video/noaa-provides-incredibly-detailed-animation-of-the-ocean-floor
.
Thank you, Maria Regina. Maybe NOAA can make one for flat-earthers too then they won't feel so jealous.  ;)