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Author Topic: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse  (Read 27379 times)

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Offline happenby

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Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
« Reply #90 on: February 17, 2018, 11:09:21 AM »
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  • Ok a couple of things here.  Um..the guy in the this video was trying to prove that the moon is flat.  And considering it was supposed to shut the door forever on the spherical moon argument...it was a pretty bad video.

    1) The confirmation factor...He was saying that the shadow would bevel and skew, wrapping the moons surface.  A pencil and bowl inches apart do not represent the visual acuity in the distance from the earth to the moon. Yet at the 9:10 mark you can see in his example that the light vs shadow bends across the surface.
    2) The diffusion faction...He was talking about the sharpness of shadow based on distance.  This is oversimplification.  It doesn't factor in the intensity of the light.  For example get a cheap regular bulb flashlight and point at an object 20ft away.  Now get a high intensity LED flashlight from the same distance.  You will see a difference in the shadow's 'diffusion.  Using his explanation as a premise for 'diffusion factor' is a bad way to prove something.  Its like ignoring the numbers after the decimals, you won't get an accurate answer.  At the 10:32 mark, he said there is no stretching, no conformation, no warping....yet the shadow extends out....note the yellow into orange into darkness....and the fuzzy area between the orange and the dark...looks like what he was describing as diffusion.
    3) Sine factor...I have never heard about a sine factor before.  Maybe I am not educated enough, but other than trig and calc, I've never used it again.  Is this a real thing? I could not find anything on this in a google search.
    4) Reflected light factor. So he held an object less than an inch away to show proof that the earth should reflect light back to the moon....thus eliminating new moons.  Another thing...the sun's light is not yellow as he describes.  And moon light isn't blue? Atmosphere plays a part in it.  He says you should see this, or the moon should do that, but again with no data to back him up other than opinion.  No one too my knowledge has ever seen the new moon.  So we should be able to see it because he thinks we should

    How does a puppet show, in his words, "100% discounts and debunks any further arguments or perspectives that hold to our moon being a sphere."  That by itself is a illogical statement.

    So now the earth AND the moon are flat.  What is next flat Mars and flat sun theory?
    You're right, wrong video.  I blew it.  I will post the 2018 eclipse video that proves earth is not responsible for the eclipse.   In the meantime, 1. Have you done this yourself?  You can prove this with simple tools that include a couple of small spheres, a pencil or stick, a dimmable room and a flashlight.  Distance is not the point, either, but relative distance of the shadow causing item to receptor or source.  He explains in the video.
    2. It isn't oversimplification because any intensity of light will be diffused/blocked by the item that causes a shadow, dependent on the distance the item is to the light source and the size of the item blocking.  Although his videography isn't the clearest, the principle can be reproduced in your own home.  Test and see.
    3. Try for yourself.
    4. Please don't say the sun's light is not yellow or that the moon's is not blue, or what I'd call, silver.  These are simple observations that can be made in your own time.  The sun's light is completely different than the moon's.  Sunlight is warm and preserves food, moonlight is cold and putrefies food.  Sunlight can be concentrated to increase heat, but when concentrated, moonlight gets colder.  Shadows in the sunlight are cooler than the temps in direct sun.  Moonlight shadow is warmer than the direct moonlight.  The color red is washed out during the full moon and things like red roses lose their color and appear gray or brown in full moonlight. Try to read a newspaper in the full moonlight.  The printing will fade or become completely unreadable.   I've measured both lights as best I can from my distance with a laser thermometer.  The sun at zenith read around 200 degrees on a warm California day.  The full moon at zenith that night read -2.  Sunlight and moonlight are different. 

    Offline happenby

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #91 on: February 17, 2018, 11:15:41 AM »
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  • RA pointed out that my video didn't match what I was saying which is true.  So while this isn't the actual video I wanted to post, I stepped it up a notch and provided a NASA video for you globalists... rather than some nobody's.  Both show the same thing, essentially.

    Question: how can the earth be the cause of the shadow on the moon when the shadow spreads down from the top?



    Offline RoughAshlar

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #92 on: February 17, 2018, 12:10:00 PM »
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  • You're right, wrong video.  I blew it.  I will post the 2018 eclipse video that proves earth is not responsible for the eclipse.   In the meantime, 1. Have you done this yourself?  You can prove this with simple tools that include a couple of small spheres, a pencil or stick, a dimmable room and a flashlight.  Distance is not the point, either, but relative distance of the shadow causing item to receptor or source.  He explains in the video.
    2. It isn't oversimplification because any intensity of light will be diffused/blocked by the item that causes a shadow, dependent on the distance the item is to the light source and the size of the item blocking.  Although his videography isn't the clearest, the principle can be reproduced in your own home.  Test and see.
    3. Try for yourself.
    4. Please don't say the sun's light is not yellow or that the moon's is not blue, or what I'd call, silver.  These are simple observations that can be made in your own time.  The sun's light is completely different than the moon's.  Sunlight is warm and preserves food, moonlight is cold and putrefies food.  Sunlight can be concentrated to increase heat, but when concentrated, moonlight gets colder.  Shadows in the sunlight are cooler than the temps in direct sun.  Moonlight shadow is warmer than the direct moonlight.  The color red is washed out during the full moon and things like red roses lose their color and appear gray or brown in full moonlight. Try to read a newspaper in the full moonlight.  The printing will fade or become completely unreadable.   I've measured both lights as best I can from my distance with a laser thermometer.  The sun at zenith read around 200 degrees on a warm California day.  The full moon at zenith that night read -2.  Sunlight and moonlight are different.
    1) I get what he is saying and distance is part of it as he describes in the video.  Of which you use in No 2. to try to say i'm wrong.
    2) You test and see, cheap flashlight/powerful LED and tell me which shadow is crisper at a distance.  Being inches away like in the video is not a great example 
    3) I'm saying I don't get the Sine factor, and when I tried to google it there was no explanation.  So I was asking if it is real or did he make that up trying to sound scientific.  Try it for myself doesn't help
    4) Blue and silver are two different colors...And why shouldn't I say the sunlight isn't yellow. To an extent you are correct that we observe yellow because the other wave lengths are scattered through the atmosphere.  Again we will fundamentally disagree with the sunlight direct heat and non heat producing reflective light...but am I understanding that you believe the sun is 200 degrees.  Wrong video or not, do you believe that moon is flat too?  what about the sun?

    Offline RoughAshlar

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #93 on: February 17, 2018, 12:12:51 PM »
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  • RA pointed out that my video didn't match what I was saying which is true.  So while this isn't the actual video I wanted to post, I stepped it up a notch and provided a NASA video for you globalists... rather than some nobody's.  Both show the same thing, essentially.

    Question: how can the earth be the cause of the shadow on the moon when the shadow spreads down from the top?


    On any given day, you see the moon rise in the east and (apparently) travel across the sky from your left to the right; therefore, you would assume (incorrectly) that the leading edge of the moon's movement must be to the right...That is not correct. The apparent motion you are seeing is predominantly from the Earth's 24 hour rotation. But the orbit of the moon is ACTUALLY from west to east.If you were looking down at the earth-moon-sun system far above the ecliptic over the north pole, you would see the Earth spinning in a counter-clockwise direction… and the moon is also revolving around the Earth in a counter-clockwise direction.

    So forget about the Earth's rotation for a moment; it has nothing to do with the moon passing into the Earth's shadow (i.e. the eclipse.) Grab a couple objects and and place yourself on that "Earth" and look into the night sky. Which side of the moon is covered first as it passes behind the shadow cast by the Earth? What do you see?

    Left to right.

    Offline RoughAshlar

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #94 on: February 17, 2018, 12:25:06 PM »
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  • Hap,

    BTW I liked that eclipse video it was beautiful and peaceful.  

    I just have a really hard time with some videos that 

    "100% discounts and debunks any further arguments or perspectives"
    or
    "Will shut the door and forever silence"
    or
    "Such and such is irrefutable and conclusive proof"

    It gets kind of ridiculous sometimes.

    Some of the videos have as much scientific accuracy as a NBC election poll.  I'll acknowledge that some have interesting points...and points that I can not repudiate with my level of education...It not the people's belief in FE that bothers me, its that there is no constant, no core, no limit, no model.  It keeps going deeper and deeper geo vs. helio, flat vs. sphere, FE vs F-Moon,  I was serious when I said what's next? Flat Mars and flat sun.  Just my two cents.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #95 on: February 17, 2018, 01:47:43 PM »
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  • .
    Where are the flat-earthers' predictions of eclipses to come in the future?
    .
    Too difficult with the flat-earth model, eh?
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #96 on: February 17, 2018, 02:15:39 PM »
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  • Question: how can the earth be the cause of the shadow on the moon when the shadow spreads down from the top?


    .
    I have already posted very good diagrams that explain this. The earth's shadow was higher than the moon's path, and the moon crossed the earth's shadow near its lower edge which is why we got a "blood moon" this time.
    .
    As you can see here, the earth's shadow spreads down from the top left of the moon and leaves on the top right.
    .

    .
    The shadow of the earth started at the top left side of the moon, as shown above (left of "start").
    .
    When the eclipse was ending earth's shadow left the moon starting at the bottom left side (left of "peak"), and was last seen on the top right side (moon image right of "end" above).
    .
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #97 on: February 17, 2018, 02:17:07 PM »
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  • Hap,

    BTW I liked that eclipse video it was beautiful and peaceful.  

    I just have a really hard time with some videos that

    "100% discounts and debunks any further arguments or perspectives"
    or
    "Will shut the door and forever silence"
    or
    "Such and such is irrefutable and conclusive proof"

    It gets kind of ridiculous sometimes.

    Some of the videos have as much scientific accuracy as a NBC election poll.  I'll acknowledge that some have interesting points...and points that I can not repudiate with my level of education...It not the people's belief in FE that bothers me, its that there is no constant, no core, no limit, no model.  It keeps going deeper and deeper geo vs. helio, flat vs. sphere, FE vs F-Moon,  I was serious when I said what's next? Flat Mars and flat sun.  Just my two cents.
    Hey, I get it.  Mostly, just being me.  Will do better next time.  Maybe.  :)


    Offline happenby

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #98 on: February 17, 2018, 02:19:19 PM »
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  • .
    I have already posted very good diagrams that explain this. The earth's shadow was higher than the moon's path, and the moon crossed the earth's shadow near its lower edge which is why we got a "blood moon" this time.
    .
    As you can see here, the earth's shadow spreads down from the top left of the moon and leaves on the top right.
    .

    .
    The shadow of the earth started at the top left side of the moon, as shown above (left of "start").
    .
    When the eclipse was ending earth's shadow left the moon starting at the bottom left side (left of "peak"), and was last seen on the top right side (moon image right of "end" above).
    .
    .
    The earth would have to be over the moon to cast a shadow on top of the moon, which is where the shadow came from.  That's just reality. 

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #99 on: February 17, 2018, 02:31:04 PM »
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  • The earth would have to be over the moon to cast a shadow on top of the moon, which is where the shadow came from.  That's just reality.
    .
    Your fake model is the problem. The sun and moon are not always on the same side of the earth.
    .
    That's just reality.
    .
    If you're stuck in a "flat-earth" model obviously you won't be capable of understanding the diagram.
    .
    The earth isn't casting a shadow "on top of the moon." 
    Earth is casting a shadow on the visible face of the moon. (On its side not its top.)
    .
    There is a visible face, which always faces the earth, and the far side of the moon which is never visible from earth.
    .
    That is, in our times it isn't visible. There may come a time when the far side gradually becomes more visible from earth.
    .
    But that could be many thousands of years in the future -- if the world lasts that long.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #100 on: February 17, 2018, 02:43:52 PM »
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  • .
    In fact, the ONLY time we get a lunar eclipse is when the sun is on one side of the earth and the moon is on the opposite side.
    .
    I know, for flat-earthers, that's heresy.
    .
    But it's only "heresy" in their fantasy Modernism dreamland.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline happenby

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #101 on: February 17, 2018, 03:27:22 PM »
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  • .
    Your fake model is the problem. The sun and moon are not always on the same side of the earth.
    .
    That's just reality.
    .
    If you're stuck in a "flat-earth" model obviously you won't be capable of understanding the diagram.
    .
    The earth isn't casting a shadow "on top of the moon."
    Earth is casting a shadow on the visible face of the moon. (On its side not its top.)
    .
    There is a visible face, which always faces the earth, and the far side of the moon which is never visible from earth.
    .
    That is, in our times it isn't visible. There may come a time when the far side gradually becomes more visible from earth.
    .
    But that could be many thousands of years in the future -- if the world lasts that long.
    .
    My fake model?  No, I used a NASA video.  The shadow spreads downward from the TOP of the moon.  That proves earth is not the cause of the shadow.  You're proven wrong.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #102 on: February 17, 2018, 05:24:38 PM »
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  • My fake model?  No, I used a NASA video.  The shadow spreads downward from the TOP of the moon.  That proves earth is not the cause of the shadow.  You're proven wrong.
    .
    You know I'm talking about your fake flat-earth model. 
    .
    I just showed you the diagram that explains why the shadow starts on the TOP of the moon.
    .
    So long as you're stuck on flat-earthism you won't understand eclipses. Period.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #103 on: February 17, 2018, 05:41:57 PM »
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  • .
    Another aspect of the video you posted which you (in your die-hard flat-earthism mindset) will never comprehend is due to them having used several locations for taking videos of the eclipse. The locations were not close to each other, one on the east coast, another on the west coast and one in between. They switched from one to another to avoid cloud cover conditions but they didn't bother to identify where the shots were taken from.
    .
    You, who claim the moon mysteriously "rolls like a wheel" across the sky, fail to realize that it's your head that's doing the rolling because you turn your head in a different plane than the one the moon is moving in.
    .
    The shots of the moon in your video from different locations will necessarily show the earth's shadow looking differently when cast upon a globe moon viewed at different angles of UP and DOWN. What is level in Florida is about 20 degrees sloped in California, due to the earth's curvature.
    .
    There are many, many ways we can see the effects of the earth's curvature all around us, every day, and this is one more example.
    .
    When the earth's shadow begins to come down from "the TOP" of the moon (actually it's from the left top corner, not the TOP and straight down) as seen from the east coast of the USA, at the same time viewed from the west coast the shadow appears to be coming from the left side of the moon because 3,000 miles of earth's curvature gives the moon appearing to have rotated about 20 degrees counterclockwise (which you mistake for "rolling like a wheel"), but that's due entirely to the curvature of the earth and the moon's curving orbit around the earth.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: How do Flat Earthers explain an Eclipse
    « Reply #104 on: February 17, 2018, 05:56:15 PM »
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  • There are many things about the moon that bother me, particularly how the moon could rotate so perfectly in sync with its rotation that we have only ever seen the one face of it.  Even if it were just a few minutes off per day, the face we see would slowly change over time.  I don't buy this whole "tidal locking" explanation.