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Author Topic: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?  (Read 2442 times)

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Offline Cryptinox

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How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
« on: November 27, 2021, 07:39:28 PM »
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  • I am not a strong round Earther myself but I am curious as to what flat Earthers have to say about the Miraculous Medal and Infant of Prague.



    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #1 on: November 28, 2021, 04:28:39 PM »
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  • Typically, the Salvator Mundi image of Christ is shown with an orb as a representation of His dominion over creation. But, this doesn't prove anything about the shape of the earth, and it isn't intended to. Later works, such as the Immaculate Conception image you have there, depict the earth itself as a sphere. Which is merely an artist's interpretation of the world being at Mary's feet or the earth as God's footstool.

    It doesn't prove anything, really, as these images are not dogmatic pronouncements themselves on the shape of the earth. The Church has made no such pronouncements, only that geocentrism is true.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline Marion

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #2 on: November 28, 2021, 04:44:37 PM »
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  • Typically, the Salvator Mundi image of Christ is shown with an orb as a representation of His dominion over creation. But, this doesn't prove anything about the shape of the earth, and it isn't intended to. Later works, such as the Immaculate Conception image you have there, depict the earth itself as a sphere. Which is merely an artist's interpretation of the world being at Mary's feet or the earth as God's footstool.

    It doesn't prove anything, really, as these images are not dogmatic pronouncements themselves on the shape of the earth. The Church has made no such pronouncements, only that geocentrism is true.

    And that's a reason to use the crap ideas of one Eric Dubay to say that the Reichsinsignien of the 1000 year Holy Roman Empire, starting on 25th Dec 800 with the coronation of Kaiser Karl, and ending with the capitulation of the last Kaiser on 25th Dec 1800 when the troops of Napoleon were close to Vienna, were a false representation of reality?

    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)

    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #3 on: November 29, 2021, 07:33:30 PM »
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  • Typically, the Salvator Mundi image of Christ is shown with an orb as a representation of His dominion over creation. But, this doesn't prove anything about the shape of the earth, and it isn't intended to. Later works, such as the Immaculate Conception image you have there, depict the earth itself as a sphere. Which is merely an artist's interpretation of the world being at Mary's feet or the earth as God's footstool.

    It doesn't prove anything, really, as these images are not dogmatic pronouncements themselves on the shape of the earth. The Church has made no such pronouncements, only that geocentrism is true.
    The Miraculous Medal image was based off what St. Catherine Laboure saw. I know it is private revelation but I am pretty sure nearly everyone on this forum accepts her visions as legitimate.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #4 on: November 30, 2021, 05:37:37 AM »
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  • In fact the earth is shaped like a globe, but we live on a flat surface within it.  There’s a firmament dome over the top and the bottom part is what’s beneath with the earth, where hell is.  All the ancient conceptions of the earth look like that.



    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #5 on: November 30, 2021, 05:49:30 AM »
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  • That's yet another reason in favor of flat earth.  Every ancient culture had a very similar concept of the universe ... just like the "Hebrew" one.  I have never believed this nonsense about how ancient cultures were stupid people, and how we now know better.  There was a significant amount of what's called "primitive revelation", knowledge passed on from Adam and Eve, who knew everything about the nature of the world.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #6 on: November 30, 2021, 07:05:11 AM »
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  • We do not live on a globe, but rather IN a globe.

    Offline Marion

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #7 on: December 06, 2021, 01:07:30 AM »
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  • Many of the flat-earth proponents on CI wait for a "Great Monarch", while ridiculing the insignia of a thousand years of real great Catholic Monarchs, during the Holy Roman Empire.

    Why would the Lord want to hear you?
    That meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church. (Dei Filius)


    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #8 on: December 06, 2021, 09:15:09 PM »
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  • Quote
    We do not live on a globe, but rather IN a globe.
    Right.  Globe earth + flat land.   No contradiction. 

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #9 on: December 06, 2021, 09:57:20 PM »
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  • In fact the earth is shaped like a globe, but we live on a flat surface within it.  There’s a firmament dome over the top and the bottom part is what’s beneath with the earth, where hell is.  All the ancient conceptions of the earth look like that.



    I really love this graphic. It's exactly what I picture in Scripture combined with the claims of Flat Earth.

    This actually gives great insights into why Antarctica is the ice wall encapsulating the earth-plane (like a bowl). As the sun's light is only limited to its circuit above the earthly plane, it's heat is unable to reach the furthest edges of the water globe which the flat plane is encapsulated in. Therefore, these waters would, logically, freeze over with the lack of heat.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #10 on: December 06, 2021, 10:02:27 PM »
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  • Right.  Globe earth + flat land.  No contradiction.
    Take a look at this image and you'll see that the definitions of the structure of our world are within the orb Our Lord holds. The upper bar representing the solid Firmament, and the equilateral bar that of the solid earth.

    Andrea-Previtali-Salvator-Mundi-1519-oil-on-poplar-61-6-x-53-cm-National-Gallery
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #11 on: December 11, 2021, 08:19:45 PM »
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  • Right.  Globe earth + flat land.  No contradiction.

    Earth designates the land within God's creation.  Reread Genesis; it is all spelled out for us.  Earth is distinct from the waters, both those above and below the firmament.  The model Lad shared only has the term "earth" next to the land upon the flat plane which is under the dome of the firmament.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #12 on: December 11, 2021, 08:24:15 PM »
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  • And that's a reason to use the crap ideas of one Eric Dubay...

    Did you go to high school with him and he was the stud QB and you were the dork with acne?  Did he kill your cat, steal your wife or girlfriend?  You would do better to leave him out of these discussions and focus on cold, hard facts.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline angelusmaria

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #13 on: December 27, 2021, 09:13:23 PM »
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  • I did watch a bit of Eric Dubay doc that made an interesting point.  If the Earth is a globe spinning at a thousand miles an hour, why wouldn't a westward-bound aircraft, whose destination is more or less exactly parallel, just rise up in the air and stay stationary until the destination arrived to them?  Aircraft would be designed to take someone straight up in the air, and just wait for the Earth to rotate to bring Denver to them.  It takes 3 Hours to fly to Denver (lat. 39.73) from Indianapolis (lat 39.76), which is just over 1,000 miles away.  Going straight up and waiting for the Earth to rotate would just take 1 hour.  Now, flying from Denver to Indianapolis takes a half hour less, but if the world is spinning counter-clockwise, then Indianapolis would be moving away from the plane, so the flight time should be longer, as the jet stream averages as 250mph and maxes out at 750mph, which couldn't make up for the 1,000mph rotation speed.
    please pray for me

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: How do Flat Earth Catholics explain these devotions?
    « Reply #14 on: December 27, 2021, 09:33:54 PM »
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  • I did watch a bit of Eric Dubay doc that made an interesting point.  If the Earth is a globe spinning at a thousand miles an hour, why wouldn't a westward-bound aircraft, whose destination is more or less exactly parallel, just rise up in the air and stay stationary until the destination arrived to them?  Aircraft would be designed to take someone straight up in the air, and just wait for the Earth to rotate to bring Denver to them.  It takes 3 Hours to fly to Denver (lat. 39.73) from Indianapolis (lat 39.76), which is just over 1,000 miles away.  Going straight up and waiting for the Earth to rotate would just take 1 hour.

    Ah, but this is explained by the magic of "gravity".  This amazing force drags the plane and the entire atmosphere around the globe as if it were attached by an iron rod even when it's 30,000 feet up.  But, then, of course, the small flap of a butterfly's wings can allow it to move westward with no more difficulty than it moves eastward.  If gravity were that powerful a force that it dragged things around at 1,000 MPH, then in order for this butterfly to move westward, that should prove to be more difficult than what a salmon has to do swimming upstream.  But there's no difference in exertion whether it's floating east or floating west.  In fact, it has no sense of direction based on any difference in the required exertion.  Then there are flights from North going SouthWest.  Not only does the plane have to fly south, it has to counteract this iron-grip pull of the earth toward East.  Or if a plane were to fly from the North Pole to the equator due south, at the North Pole, the earth is only rotating in at an extremely slow pace.  But then as it flew south, the speed of the movement of the surface underneath would increase, and the angular momentum of the plane and the exertion required to counteract the force would have to constantly increase.  Does a pilot have to increase the engine throttle as he moves south and the pull of gravity causes it to move eastward at an ever-faster pace?

    It's utterly absurd.

    Now, technically, this speaks more to a stationary earth than a flat earth per se.

    Michelson-Morley and Airy's Failure also proved that the planet is not rotating but rather that the stars revolve around it.