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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: happenby on June 06, 2018, 10:42:53 AM

Title: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: happenby on June 06, 2018, 10:42:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AdtSF-TpB0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AdtSF-TpB0&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 06, 2018, 11:20:04 AM

A very good video, and well worth watching in its entirety, especially the second half. 
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 06, 2018, 06:18:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AdtSF-TpB0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AdtSF-TpB0)
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That was an interesting video for a change. You're improving!
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I found a couple of the COMMENTS interesting, too -- Cathexis here is converting from atheism to Protestant after watching this video, so flat-earthism is doing the devil's work all ready, but really s-l-o-w-l-y.  After 2 years, only 49,135 views! How discouraging!! Perhaps this is due to the numerous self-contradictions in the video, eh?
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Cathexis (http://null) 2 years ago (http://null)
Things are becoming very very real all of a sudden. Understanding the occult history and their procedures in combination with the FE understanding is the key to knowing what we are dealing with.
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This is a philosophical war that we are awakening to. Materialism vs Dualism. God vs Lucifer. The wisdom of God vs the Knowledge of man/lucifer. The big bang and evolution are the mythos of man/lucifer and it's just an inversion of what is true.
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Just 6 months ago I was part of the cult of scientism and I had drank the kool aid. Science is a beautiful and wonderful thing but when it's distorted by dogma, cloaked in the idea that it is infallible because it's "science"; then it becomes something very different and very powerful to those who believe the high priests of science. People do not understand that they are being sold a set of philosophical beliefs with fake evidence and theory to back it up. Even Copernicus himself said that the heliocentric model he came to was accepted purely on philosophical merits.  And Darwin said something similar in
[someone deleted the rest here]
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This hijacking of science has been their most powerful weapon in this philosophical war and it was deceived so many (myself included previously) and it is very hard to break the shackles.  What did it for me is when I used ACTUAL testable science in order to determine the shape of our earth. Once one understands that the heliocentric model is a false paradigm then the spirituality of this world becomes very very clear.  This is why there have been so many prior atheists coming to the God of the bible after discovering flat earth.  It's amazing and it's beautiful.  The great deception is upon us but the internet has allowed us to pierce the veil.

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What an exciting time to be alive!  Thank you for your videos brother!  I'm currently gathering resources and recording things to hopefully start my channel soon. My focus is going to be on uncovering this philosophical battle that is being waged.  I'll let you know when those vids go up. Keep doing what you're doing brother!  Take care!

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the Truth is stranger than fiction... 2years ago
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+Cathexis Oh my goodness, praise God!  What a testimony.  I'm so stoked that I was able to connect with you, and I very much look forward to any material you put out in the future.  Amen to EVERYTHING you just said, it is indeed a marvelous time in history to be alive, and I'm am realizing this more and more with each new day.  Maybe we could  collaborate or share research etc. in terms of this whole issue of Evolution/Heliocentricism being provably a part of the Gnostic/Luciferian belief system since the very beginning.  I can't tell you how encouraged I am by all that you have shared, and how much you "get" the same stuff.  God is amazing...
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It's truly an awesome thing to see so many people being freed from the lies of Evolution, atheism, scientific humanism, etc., after they started looking at the empirical evidence for the non-globular Earth!  I guess this is why it just REALLY frustrates me, to still see so many Christians, and particularly "Conspiracy/prophecy-type Christians", who continue to refuse to even look into it themselves, but would rather just continue rattling on about "alien deception" or the possibility of a "secret space program" etc..  They're so afraid of looking "stupid" in the eyes of the world, or other "Truthers", that they are totally oblivious to how much Fruit has come as a result, in what is really still less than one year's time!  If the FE was a "psy-op", well then you'd have to admit that it backfired spectacularly, and God has actually used it in His sovereign wisdom to build His Kingdom in a spectacular way...
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 06, 2018, 08:18:23 PM
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Oh boy, are there some keepers or what?
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Troll of the year  1 year ago
CanWeTalk I see that God created a globe earth, not a flat earth.  Satan has come to destroy this 3D world and flatten it like a pancake.  Then Satan will imprison everyone under a dome like the kind used to cover pies in a bakery.
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Rob Dizzll 1 year ago
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...just thought I'd add also that Pythagoras was actually an Egyptian priest of Ra for 22 years in the temple which finally accepted him at Diospolis... before he was taken captive to Babylon and there was inducted into the Order of the Magi where he became a grand master....ALL before he came back to Greece and built his religion under 9 temples... geometry... music... etc... the most learned masters of all 9 were known as Esoterici
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Joseph Venne 8 months ago                                           [Geocentrism is like biocentrism via spiritual energy!]
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The physical is maleable and subject to change; thought propagates all things.
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Pythagoras identified as if he achieved Gnosis through the concept of Gnosticism; akin to Hindi Samadhi, Buddhist enlightenment, Christian born again, apotheosis, etcetera.
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Geocentrism isn't the final cathartic realization of Gnosis. It is more like biocentrism, except via spiritual energy. All things exist through consciousness itself. That is the kingdom of heaven, the cosmic egg, where our higher consciousness exists as like a tesseract on another dimension.
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Flat Earth is a step in the right direction away from scientism, but it's fallible itself, but can serve for some as a turning point to realize the inner truth of true spiritual understanding.
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the Truth is stranger than fiction...1 year ago
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Hovercraft was such an amazing live experience! Saw them many times back in Seattle... But wow, I'd LOVE to get my hands on those film sequences they used to project over the whole stage/band. They were such a crazy blend of vintage sci-fi type clips. I've actually used Hovercraft in several of my vids, perfect for subjects like CERN, occultism, etc. (my very first video I made is called "CERN Rock", and is all Hovercraft, although even now people complain that the music is too loud...)
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denis pucheu 2 years ago
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Slow down, son. Take a breath and relax. You realize all these flat-earthers are slow!
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Longsnowsm  1 year ago
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How interesting, I was just digging around in my bible for the origins of "the universe" in the text.  Frankly I was running into brick walls.  Everyone points to the greek word Kosmos.  Then I started looking up the conventional meanings for Kosmos and found that the first extension of the idea of Kosmos beyond the world/earth was brought to us by Pythagoras.  I had seen references to Freemasony and the occult, but I didn't know much about Pythagoras other than the mythology we are taught.  In dictionary.com (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.com&event=comments&redir_token=AkZwO_GhlHtp0oPXZelbYh1fHDF8MTUyODQxOTAzNkAxNTI4MzMyNjM2) it points out that Pythagoras was the first to extend this definition of Kosmos to "the universe" as we are told today.  It frankly just isn't in our bibles.  So I went looking and found this video.   Great job!  Thank you for helping to boil down who Pythagoras was and helping to dispel this Gnostic teaching that has infiltrated our bibles.  There is no "universe" in the bible.  This is a Pythagoras perversion.

Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 07, 2018, 11:46:10 AM

Neil,

What do you yourself think of the video? Is there anything in it with which you disagree? 
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: happenby on June 07, 2018, 12:05:30 PM
Neil,

What do you yourself think of the video? Is there anything in it with which you disagree?
Clearly the man is confused and doesn't know what to believe except the one thing the pagans could not have gotten wrong: the globe. 
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 07, 2018, 12:30:04 PM
Clearly the man is confused and doesn't know what to believe except the one thing the pagans could not have gotten wrong: the globe.

Well, yes, I agree. But I'd like to see just what it is about the video that Neil disagrees with. The video is going to contain a flaw or two, given that the maker of it isn't Catholic. For instance, he says (beginning at about the 10:00 minute mark)…."how pervasively gnostic all the Greek philosophy truly is." So of course he can't be Catholic, because we know that at least Aristotle is credited by the Church (via St. Thomas) as articulating certain truths, even though he lived long before Our Lord Jesus Christ.

So I don't agree with that part, but the fellow does bring up some good ideas about mathematics and numbers (among other things), and how they are important to occultists. The quote from the freemason Albert Pike seems especially relevant.
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: happenby on June 07, 2018, 02:27:50 PM
Well, yes, I agree. But I'd like to see just what it is about the video that Neil disagrees with. The video is going to contain a flaw or two, given that the maker of it isn't Catholic. For instance, he says (beginning at about the 10:00 minute mark)…."how pervasively gnostic all the Greek philosophy truly is." So of course he can't be Catholic, because we know that at least Aristotle is credited by the Church (via St. Thomas) as articulating certain truths, even though he lived long before Our Lord Jesus Christ.

So I don't agree with that part, but the fellow does bring up some good ideas about mathematics and numbers (among other things), and how they are important to occultists. The quote from the freemason Albert Pike seems especially relevant.
It's true St. Thomas extracted from Aristotle, and was able to dodge nearly all of the poisonous Gnostic arrows, but not all.  St. Thomas credited Aristotle with proving earth to be a globe because he trusted Aristotle, relying on him as the source, and not Scripture.  Without the compass of truth, even the greatest men can find themselves towed under the Gnostic wave.  I have another video for you that you are going to love even more.  It connects more dots about truth than you'll ever imagine existed, and its entirely Catholic.  It helps address your own weaknesses which is great, but also, keep flat earth in mind as you listen because without even knowing it, this priest proves the modern science globe false.  It is just over an hour, but 100% necessary as the information just keeps on coming. Let me know what you think.    
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=2s   
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 07, 2018, 02:57:54 PM
It's true St. Thomas extracted from Aristotle, and was able to dodge nearly all of the poisonous Gnostic arrows, but not all.  St. Thomas credited Aristotle with proving earth to be a globe because he trusted Aristotle, relying on him as the source, and not Scripture.  Without the compass of truth, even the greatest men can find themselves towed under the Gnostic wave.  I have another video for you that you are going to love even more.  It connects more dots about truth than you'll ever imagine existed, and its entirely Catholic.  It helps address your own weaknesses which is great, but also, keep flat earth in mind as you listen because without even knowing it, this priest proves the modern science globe false.  It is just over an hour, but 100% necessary as the information just keeps on coming. Let me know what you think.    
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=2s  
Thanks. I'll watch it and let you know what I think. 
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 07, 2018, 05:47:06 PM
keep flat earth in mind as you listen because without even knowing it, this priest proves the modern science globe false.  

Let me know what you think.    

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Your video has only one thing to do with "flat" earth.
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Truth is conformity of the mind to reality, whereas flat-earthers refuse to recognize the truth of reality.
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It's noteworthy that most of the Comments are bickering Protestants arguing over Purgatory:


Minister straker 2 years ago
PERGATORY??????? WHAT AND WHERE IS THIS ??? Where can i find in Scripture, King James Bible
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AveCorMariam 2 years ago
+ Praying and offering sacrifices for those in Purgatory may be related to Scripture. Judas Maccabeus 2 12:46-"made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin"......
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Nick M 1 year ago
Matthew 18:32-35 "In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed." Matthew 5:25-26 Luke 12:57-59 If they're in heaven, they don't need to pay anything back. If they're in hell, they can't pay it back. Also see: 1 cor 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." Now, you might say: "But if God forgives you, everything is forgiven." But this isn't the case: 2 sam 12:13-14 “The Lord has taken away your sin." "the son born to you will die" Even tho, he was forgiven he was still punished.
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Minister straker 1 year ago
+Nick Mottoul What do these scriptures have to do with any purgatory??????? Come on my beloved brothers and sisters, Do your research, We are not in the Dark ages anymore. why are there different sectors of Christianity? Lookup xcatholics finally getting saved!!! 2nd corinthians 5:17 .Any man in Christ is a new Creature..Is your life and lifestyle holy according to Scripture?
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Nick M 1 year ago
"why are there different sectors of Christianity?" In the West (to make a long story short): because some guy had scruples and went in against 1500 years of Christian teaching...
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KA Fleury 1 year ago
Those scriptures talk about going to "prison" -- Jesus tells us that some sins get souls tossed into fiery Gehenna, others cause souls to be imprisoned until the last penny of debt is paid, and still others talk about going to heaven. He doesn't call it heaven, but I've never heard a Protestant complain about that, or even about the word "hell" not appearing in the Bible... they just fixate on that word "purgatory." Well, "purgatory" is a place to be purged of the scars from sins -- every time we sin, it scars our souls, but God cannot stand the sight of anything impure, so we can't get into heaven (which isn't mentioned by that name in the Bible) unless we are purified, like when the prophet Ezekiel had his tongue seared by a hot coal to purify it and make him worthy. When the Church Fathers wanted to explain this "prison" to people, they didn't want the people to imagine a prison on earth, because it's a little different. In earthly prisons of the time, people were held until they went to trial, where they were determined to be innocent or guilty. If innocent, they were sent home, if guilty, they were led to execution. They might be held in prison for a very long time, but their judgement didn't take place until the trial. But when you die, your trial is immediate, and your sentence passed immediately. Either you are damned and go to hell, or you are saved and you will go to heaven....but if your soul is scarred from sin, even though the sins were forgiven, you have to remain in the place of purification, which is another way of saying "purgatory."
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minorityvoice 1 year ago
foster straker we have done oir research by conforming to the teaching of those whom the truth had been given...the Apostles and their successors. We call that the sacred Tradition. same place where we get the Trinity from which by the way is not explicitly written in scripture. The christian faith is a living faith that adheres to the objective truths of Gods Kingdom. The truth doesnt change we can only understand it more deeply clearly. Of we just stick only to scripture we lose our connection and value to the wosdom amd knowledge of our ancestors and we also near the occasion of falling into the early heresy of Palagianism. Yes being a strict literal scripture interpreter apart from the teachings of the apostles is heresy. Just because you can not see it clearly doea not mean it is not true. Consciemce must be formed. God bless.
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Ave Christus Rex 1 year ago
+Minister straker Just like "Trinity" or "Abortion" or "Limbo of the Fathers" etc don't appear in the Bible, the word "Purgatory" doesn't. Because it was a term coined probably centuries later. But these are implicitly taught in Scripture, very strongly so. I'm not going to defend those now, because you probably know about them sufficiently. The Trinity is by taking the premises that there is one God, but that three persons are treated as this God, while distinct from one another etc. Abortion is not talked about by name, or even addressed, but the concept of killing and innocent person is murder, and then God putting a soul in the person in the womb etc means abortion would be intrinsically murder. Limbo of the Fathers is just what some call the Bosom of Abraham, which Jesus talks about, where the Old Testament Fathers HAVE to have been in, with Abraham, before Jesus brought them up and into heaven with Him. After He "preached to the spirits in prison". Likewise, Scripture speaks of some kind of state where God will try people for their works, even saved people who are going ultimately to heaven. In case you are wondering, we view Purgatory thus: 'The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory.' So all that Purgatory consists of is the admission that purgation, or purification for venial sins As you know, the Catholic Church's doctrine on this, much like it is with Hell, does not teach officially or specifically a literal furnace of fire, but a place or state where people are deprived of God's grace completely and cut off from Him in eternal agony and enmity with him, suffering as in a lake of fire. But it teaches that Hell is for eternity and is not a nice place to be, torturous etc. Just the Scriptural view, basically. Except with Purgatory, it does not last forever. But Scripture does talk about such a place, again, implicitly. Now Scripture talks of Hell implicitly and metaphorically, too. Nonetheless, no one denies the realness of what Christ is teaching through the parable. When He says "And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell" (Matthew 5:30), He is quite explicit. When He is talking of Hell He also uses metaphors. Matthew 7:19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." Matthew 15:6 " If you do not remain in Me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned." Scripture elsewhere does the same concerning Hell: Luke 3:17 "His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather the wheat into His barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." .....
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Ave Christus Rex 1 year ago
+Minister straker ........ So Scripture speaks of these realities using metaphors, oftentimes. With Purgatory, it isn't referenced by name (just like the Trinity) but is taught implicitly, and by metaphor, and one explicitly taught. According to 2 Maccabees 12:42 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=762s)-46 (part of Scripture, but Luther removed it from his bible, but we kept it, and doesn't need to be Scriptural for this particular historical point): "And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." there existed in late Judaism the conviction that those who had died in sin could be helped by prayer and sacrifice of atonement. Purification from sin was ascribed to prayer and sacrifice. The early Christians took over from Judaism belief in the efficacy of intercessory prayer. Paul desired God's mercy on the day of judgement for his loyal helper Onesiphorus, who, apparently, was no longer among the living at the tune of the composition of the Second Epistle to Timothy: "The Lord grant (grace) unto him to find mercy from the Lord in that day" (2 Timothy 1:18). In Matthew 12:23, Christ says "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him. Neither in this world nor in the world to come." This means that there are sins which can be forgiven in the world to come. But we know that this cannot be for the unsaved who only have time on earth to repent and believe in Christ, not after death. In 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 Paul writes: "For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on (this_ foundation [Christ] using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed by fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He will himself be saved, but only as through fire." The imagry is clear, and is even used in reference to being tried by God in the Old Testament before: Psalm 66:10 For You have tried us, O God; You have refined us as silver is refined. Job 23:10 "But He knows the way I take; When He has tried me, I shall come forth as gold." Likewise, St. Paul uses the same language of God burning up the bad works and only if you buil with good works (represented by the "gold, silver, precious stones") will you be saved, and those who build up in their lives bad works (here "wood, hay, stubble") will be saved BUT ONLY (there is a caveat), "as through fire". Not literal fire, but through the same trying heat of God's justice. the word translated "suffer loss" comes form the root word zemiao in Greek, meaning: "I inflict loss (damage) upon, fine, punish, sometimes with the acc. of the penalty, even when the verb is passive." The same word employed in Luke 9:25 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=565s) to say lose/suffer the loss of your soul! Not light words, anyway. In 2 Corinthians 7:9, the form of the word zemiao used there is even translated 'harm', "I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us." Put simply, St. Paul isn't talking about the same experience for all the saved. Some are saved as through fire, depending on the goodness or badness of their works. Bad works are 'burnt up' and good ones symbolize a proper attitude to building your life on Christ. The bad ones you will be tried for "as by fire". The Latin Fathers take the passage to mean a transient purification punishment in the other world. They interpret the words "as through fire" all too literally, even, in the sense of a physical fire. (e.g. St. Augustine, Enarr, in Ps. 37:3; Caesarius of Aries, Sermon 179) Let's look at two more: Matthew 5:25 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=325s)-26 "Reconcile with your accuser quickly while you are with him on the way, lest he deliver you to the judge and the judge to the officer and you be cast into prison. Amen I say to you, You shall not leave there until you pay the last penny." Now the larger context is the Sermon on the Mount, Christ's teaching on the Kingdom of Heaven, that is of the spiritual lessons necessary to know what is good and bad and how to live. However, He is talking about heaven and Hell and who goes where or what happens to certain people. In other words, the whole sermon is very much to do with the spiritual afterlife and the lives and deeds or motivations that lead to either. It's altogether otherworldly. The immediate context before v. 25-26 is making peace with your brother before making an offering at the altar (don't try to please God while not at peace with your brethren). So do Protestants think Jesus is recommending cool ways to escape having to go to prison? NO. This is a childish and spiritually blind way of looking at Christ's teaching on the Kingdom of God (which refers to the spiritual participation of humans in the after life here on earth, as well as Heaven itself). This is a spiritual teaching (which I'll prove from Scripture in the same part of Scripture). Let's look at another teaching of Christ from His Sermon on the Mount: (notice the structure with which our Lord conveys His teachings on these matters): " Beware of false prophets who come in the clothed as sheep but inwardly are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Does one gather grapes from thorns or from thistles figs? A good tree produce good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. Neither does a bad tree produce good fruit or a good tree, bad fruit. A tree that is not producing fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, then, you will know them by their fruits." Notice the structure: ● Preliminary introduction to what the teaching concerns (false prophets). ● Parable to help explain (the reasonable nature of) the teaching (compare trees producing fruit with people whose actions and fruits can expose them or exonerate them of bad or good intent, respectively). ● And finally the spiritual summary of the parable (know people by their fruits). Now let's look at the passage about 'prison' again with its immediate context, just as above: " Therefore if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. Make peace with your accuser quickly while you are with him on the way, lest he deliver you to the judge and the judge to the officer and are cast into prison. Amen I say to you, You shall not leave there until you pay the last penny." Again, notice: ● Preliminary introduction to what the teaching concerns (forgive one another) ● Parable to help explain (the reasonable nature of) the teaching (compares being sent to prison for crime(s) and not being able to leave until you pay something for it, so make reparation for misdeeds now while you can) ● And finally the spiritual summary of the parable (make reparation for your sins because you won't leave prison (purgatory) until you have made reparation down to "the last penny"—however figurative or literal the punishment is) (Notice that the idea of 'prison' or holding place is used, just like in the other passage about Christ going to the netherworld to "preach to the spirits in prison" [1 Peter 3:18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=198s)-21]—significant usage, see also the overtones therefore in Hebrews 13:3) To prove that this is a spiritual lesson and not the spiritually blind/Scripturally ignorant interpretation that it is talking about going to earthly prison amidst a sermon on the Kingdom of God, look at this other passage which corroborates this clear teaching without ambiguity: (the immediately prior context is forgiving one's brother, again—the unmerciful servant) Matthew 18:33 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=1113s)-35 "*'Should you not have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?'* In his anger, his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed. That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart." ● Preliminary introduction to what the teaching concerns (forgive one another as God forgives you). ● Parable to help explain (the reasonable nature of) the teaching (compares an angry master having a servant turned over for failing to forgive as he was forgiven with God demanding that ones sins also be purged, i.e. not forgiving your brother). ● And finally the spiritual summary of the parable (God demands punishment _until you pay back what is due to Him)._ This is too clear to need explanation, He even explicitly says: "THAT IS HOW MY HEAVENLY FATHER WILL TREAT EACH OF YOU...." in direct reference to His words: "In his anger, his master turned him over to the jailers to be TORTURED, UNTIL he should repay all that he owed." I submit to you, it cannot be clearer or more explicit. it's far more explicit than the existence of Abraham's Bosom/Limbo of the Fathers. God bless.
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Buck Haberthy 1 year ago
Minister straker king James? Where was that before the Bible? Lots of errors in kj
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Buck Haberthy 1 year ago
Minister straker hmmm the scientific method of historical is based on two principles: early attestation (aka Church Fathers); multiple attestation (many witnesses). I'll believe them over waiting for the Bible to finally get printed hundreds of years later. Where is the word Bible in the Bible?
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Buck Haberthy 1 year ago
King James Bible in 1604-1611! Yikes and built on various ENGLISH translations based on the heretical Church of England. Based on Tyndale which was inspired by heretical Luthers German Bible. Which was condemned in England; in particular St Thomas More. Why? Because many terms were mistranslated in favor of anti-clerical views. King James Version departed by the Vulgate, which was based on more ancient manuscripts. It's plagued by incorrect doctrine
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Kono Koo 1 year ago (edited)
Minister straker....don't you find it odd that God the Holy Spirit did not reveal the doctrines of faith alone and Scripture alone for 1500 years? These beliefs were never taught before Luther, Calvin and Zwingly became "enlightened". When it became apparent to Fr. Luther that the divisions between the first "reformers" was problematic in that how could one explain the HS leading these men to different interpretations, he called a meeting. The meeting didn't go well and they parted on very bad terms. NO....Protestantism is confusion. Confusion is not from God. Plus, the Book which Protestantism relies on is the product of the Roman Catholic Church. How is it that heretics 1500 years later presume the CC cannot interpret their own Book...but they can? Makes zero sense. Personally the real kicker for me was when I would hear Evangelical apologists claim that OSAS vs loose your salvation just wasn't that important. What? Huh? If loosing your salvation is true (which it is, as Scripture is very, very clear on)...I think it very important to know. Don't you?
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GSRider 4 months ago
An incredible explanation Ave Christus Rex although I fear that it falls upon deaf ears with straker. His water glass is a little shallow for that ocean. Also good points Kono Koo. Spot on!! God Bless!
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Tom Berryhill 2 months ago
King James Version? No thanks. I'll keep my King Jesus Bible.




Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 07, 2018, 06:58:02 PM
Well, yes, I agree. But I'd like to see just what it is about the video that Neil disagrees with. The video is going to contain a flaw or two, given that the maker of it isn't Catholic. For instance, he says (beginning at about the 10:00 minute mark)…."how pervasively gnostic all the Greek philosophy truly is." So of course he can't be Catholic, because we know that at least Aristotle is credited by the Church (via St. Thomas) as articulating certain truths, even though he lived long before Our Lord Jesus Christ.

So I don't agree with that part, but the fellow does bring up some good ideas about mathematics and numbers (among other things), and how they are important to occultists. The quote from the freemason Albert Pike seems especially relevant.
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Sorry, I didn't see your post until now. First, the things in the video I agree with...............
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The author appears to be passionate regarding study of ancient Greek philosophy, and I agree that's a commendable quality, however, we ought to keep in mind that ancient Greece wasn't a euphoria or a paradise of correct thinking; they had their problems too. The video doesn't get into how extreme their problems were -- problems that we can hardly imagine today, but once we succeed in imagining how they lived it can be imagined how their problems could have actually transpired.
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The study of ancient Greek philosophical thinking is a huge subject and would only be misunderstood in a cursory abbreviation.
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It's quite possible by cherry-picking to make it seem that all Greeks were devil worshipers and practitioners of the dark arts, which is just about as valid as saying anyone who uses modern technology is going to hell for sure because it's evil. Then what are you doing typing on the Internet?
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It seems to me the author's leap from the studies and observations made in B.C. Greece to his pet theory of flat-earthism is pretty flimsy stuff. It would take a lot of time to go back and fill in all the blanks. Especially difficult when you guys keep leaping to off-topic themes such as the SECOND video posted above, which has utterly nothing to do with the first video. It's all about Catholic theology, Modernism, progressivism, the errors of Communism, and God's truth. Which are all great themes but objectively irrelevant in context of this thread.
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Finally, sometimes a comment below a video is just as memorable as the video itself:
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I see that God created a globe earth, not a flat earth.  
Satan has come to destroy this 3-D world and flatten it like a pancake.  
Then Satan will imprison everyone under a dome like the kind used to cover pies in a bakery.
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: cassini on June 08, 2018, 07:31:38 AM

A.A. Martinez, in his book Pythagoras, Bruno, Galileo, tells us that the reason why the Church came down so hard on Galileo was because he was reintroducing Pythagoreanism. Pope Urban VIII said if introduced, Galileo's heliocentrism would destroy the Catholic faith. We can now many of the heresies in this video, condemned by the Church Fathers from 100Ad to 350AD, did evolve like evolution and Natural Big Bangism. 

All the more reason why Fr Robinson's book should be condemned.

 
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: happenby on June 08, 2018, 09:24:30 AM
A.A. Martinez, in his book Pythagoras, Bruno, Galileo, tells us that the reason why the Church came down so hard on Galileo was because he was reintroducing Pythagoreanism. Pope Urban VIII said if introduced, Galileo's heliocentrism would destroy the Catholic faith. We can now many of the heresies in this video, condemned by the Church Fathers from 100Ad to 350AD, did evolve like evolution and Natural Big Bangism.

All the more reason why Fr Robinson's book should be condemned.

 
Agreed Cassini.  Although we disagree as to the shape of the earth, it is absolutely necessary that Catholics educate themselves and denounce Heliocentrism, or, as the Pope warned, it will destroy the Catholic Faith because it leads to atheism.  Fr. Robinson's book is facilitating the destruction and making the errors incredibly difficult to overcome.    
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: happenby on June 08, 2018, 09:31:05 AM
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Your video has only one thing to do with "flat" earth.
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Truth is conformity of the mind to reality, whereas flat-earthers refuse to recognize the truth of reality.
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It's noteworthy that most of the Comments are bickering Protestants arguing over Purgatory:


Minister straker 2 years ago
PERGATORY??????? WHAT AND WHERE IS THIS ??? Where can i find in Scripture, King James Bible
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AveCorMariam 2 years ago
+ Praying and offering sacrifices for those in Purgatory may be related to Scripture. Judas Maccabeus 2 12:46-"made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin"......
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Nick M 1 year ago
Matthew 18:32-35 "In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed." Matthew 5:25-26 Luke 12:57-59 If they're in heaven, they don't need to pay anything back. If they're in hell, they can't pay it back. Also see: 1 cor 3:15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." Now, you might say: "But if God forgives you, everything is forgiven." But this isn't the case: 2 sam 12:13-14 “The Lord has taken away your sin." "the son born to you will die" Even tho, he was forgiven he was still punished.
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Minister straker 1 year ago
+Nick Mottoul What do these scriptures have to do with any purgatory??????? Come on my beloved brothers and sisters, Do your research, We are not in the Dark ages anymore. why are there different sectors of Christianity? Lookup xcatholics finally getting saved!!! 2nd corinthians 5:17 .Any man in Christ is a new Creature..Is your life and lifestyle holy according to Scripture?
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Nick M 1 year ago
"why are there different sectors of Christianity?" In the West (to make a long story short): because some guy had scruples and went in against 1500 years of Christian teaching...
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KA Fleury 1 year ago
Those scriptures talk about going to "prison" -- Jesus tells us that some sins get souls tossed into fiery Gehenna, others cause souls to be imprisoned until the last penny of debt is paid, and still others talk about going to heaven. He doesn't call it heaven, but I've never heard a Protestant complain about that, or even about the word "hell" not appearing in the Bible... they just fixate on that word "purgatory." Well, "purgatory" is a place to be purged of the scars from sins -- every time we sin, it scars our souls, but God cannot stand the sight of anything impure, so we can't get into heaven (which isn't mentioned by that name in the Bible) unless we are purified, like when the prophet Ezekiel had his tongue seared by a hot coal to purify it and make him worthy. When the Church Fathers wanted to explain this "prison" to people, they didn't want the people to imagine a prison on earth, because it's a little different. In earthly prisons of the time, people were held until they went to trial, where they were determined to be innocent or guilty. If innocent, they were sent home, if guilty, they were led to execution. They might be held in prison for a very long time, but their judgement didn't take place until the trial. But when you die, your trial is immediate, and your sentence passed immediately. Either you are damned and go to hell, or you are saved and you will go to heaven....but if your soul is scarred from sin, even though the sins were forgiven, you have to remain in the place of purification, which is another way of saying "purgatory."
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minorityvoice 1 year ago
foster straker we have done oir research by conforming to the teaching of those whom the truth had been given...the Apostles and their successors. We call that the sacred Tradition. same place where we get the Trinity from which by the way is not explicitly written in scripture. The christian faith is a living faith that adheres to the objective truths of Gods Kingdom. The truth doesnt change we can only understand it more deeply clearly. Of we just stick only to scripture we lose our connection and value to the wosdom amd knowledge of our ancestors and we also near the occasion of falling into the early heresy of Palagianism. Yes being a strict literal scripture interpreter apart from the teachings of the apostles is heresy. Just because you can not see it clearly doea not mean it is not true. Consciemce must be formed. God bless.
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Ave Christus Rex 1 year ago
+Minister straker Just like "Trinity" or "Abortion" or "Limbo of the Fathers" etc don't appear in the Bible, the word "Purgatory" doesn't. Because it was a term coined probably centuries later. But these are implicitly taught in Scripture, very strongly so. I'm not going to defend those now, because you probably know about them sufficiently. The Trinity is by taking the premises that there is one God, but that three persons are treated as this God, while distinct from one another etc. Abortion is not talked about by name, or even addressed, but the concept of killing and innocent person is murder, and then God putting a soul in the person in the womb etc means abortion would be intrinsically murder. Limbo of the Fathers is just what some call the Bosom of Abraham, which Jesus talks about, where the Old Testament Fathers HAVE to have been in, with Abraham, before Jesus brought them up and into heaven with Him. After He "preached to the spirits in prison". Likewise, Scripture speaks of some kind of state where God will try people for their works, even saved people who are going ultimately to heaven. In case you are wondering, we view Purgatory thus: 'The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory.' So all that Purgatory consists of is the admission that purgation, or purification for venial sins As you know, the Catholic Church's doctrine on this, much like it is with Hell, does not teach officially or specifically a literal furnace of fire, but a place or state where people are deprived of God's grace completely and cut off from Him in eternal agony and enmity with him, suffering as in a lake of fire. But it teaches that Hell is for eternity and is not a nice place to be, torturous etc. Just the Scriptural view, basically. Except with Purgatory, it does not last forever. But Scripture does talk about such a place, again, implicitly. Now Scripture talks of Hell implicitly and metaphorically, too. Nonetheless, no one denies the realness of what Christ is teaching through the parable. When He says "And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell" (Matthew 5:30), He is quite explicit. When He is talking of Hell He also uses metaphors. Matthew 7:19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." Matthew 15:6 " If you do not remain in Me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned." Scripture elsewhere does the same concerning Hell: Luke 3:17 "His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather the wheat into His barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." .....
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Ave Christus Rex 1 year ago
+Minister straker ........ So Scripture speaks of these realities using metaphors, oftentimes. With Purgatory, it isn't referenced by name (just like the Trinity) but is taught implicitly, and by metaphor, and one explicitly taught. According to 2 Maccabees 12:42 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=762s)-46 (part of Scripture, but Luther removed it from his bible, but we kept it, and doesn't need to be Scriptural for this particular historical point): "And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachms of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection, (For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins." there existed in late Judaism the conviction that those who had died in sin could be helped by prayer and sacrifice of atonement. Purification from sin was ascribed to prayer and sacrifice. The early Christians took over from Judaism belief in the efficacy of intercessory prayer. Paul desired God's mercy on the day of judgement for his loyal helper Onesiphorus, who, apparently, was no longer among the living at the tune of the composition of the Second Epistle to Timothy: "The Lord grant (grace) unto him to find mercy from the Lord in that day" (2 Timothy 1:18). In Matthew 12:23, Christ says "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him. Neither in this world nor in the world to come." This means that there are sins which can be forgiven in the world to come. But we know that this cannot be for the unsaved who only have time on earth to repent and believe in Christ, not after death. In 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 Paul writes: "For no one can lay a foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on (this_ foundation [Christ] using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, his workmanship will be evident, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed by fire, and the fire will prove the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive reward. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss. He will himself be saved, but only as through fire." The imagry is clear, and is even used in reference to being tried by God in the Old Testament before: Psalm 66:10 For You have tried us, O God; You have refined us as silver is refined. Job 23:10 "But He knows the way I take; When He has tried me, I shall come forth as gold." Likewise, St. Paul uses the same language of God burning up the bad works and only if you buil with good works (represented by the "gold, silver, precious stones") will you be saved, and those who build up in their lives bad works (here "wood, hay, stubble") will be saved BUT ONLY (there is a caveat), "as through fire". Not literal fire, but through the same trying heat of God's justice. the word translated "suffer loss" comes form the root word zemiao in Greek, meaning: "I inflict loss (damage) upon, fine, punish, sometimes with the acc. of the penalty, even when the verb is passive." The same word employed in Luke 9:25 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=565s) to say lose/suffer the loss of your soul! Not light words, anyway. In 2 Corinthians 7:9, the form of the word zemiao used there is even translated 'harm', "I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us." Put simply, St. Paul isn't talking about the same experience for all the saved. Some are saved as through fire, depending on the goodness or badness of their works. Bad works are 'burnt up' and good ones symbolize a proper attitude to building your life on Christ. The bad ones you will be tried for "as by fire". The Latin Fathers take the passage to mean a transient purification punishment in the other world. They interpret the words "as through fire" all too literally, even, in the sense of a physical fire. (e.g. St. Augustine, Enarr, in Ps. 37:3; Caesarius of Aries, Sermon 179) Let's look at two more: Matthew 5:25 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=325s)-26 "Reconcile with your accuser quickly while you are with him on the way, lest he deliver you to the judge and the judge to the officer and you be cast into prison. Amen I say to you, You shall not leave there until you pay the last penny." Now the larger context is the Sermon on the Mount, Christ's teaching on the Kingdom of Heaven, that is of the spiritual lessons necessary to know what is good and bad and how to live. However, He is talking about heaven and Hell and who goes where or what happens to certain people. In other words, the whole sermon is very much to do with the spiritual afterlife and the lives and deeds or motivations that lead to either. It's altogether otherworldly. The immediate context before v. 25-26 is making peace with your brother before making an offering at the altar (don't try to please God while not at peace with your brethren). So do Protestants think Jesus is recommending cool ways to escape having to go to prison? NO. This is a childish and spiritually blind way of looking at Christ's teaching on the Kingdom of God (which refers to the spiritual participation of humans in the after life here on earth, as well as Heaven itself). This is a spiritual teaching (which I'll prove from Scripture in the same part of Scripture). Let's look at another teaching of Christ from His Sermon on the Mount: (notice the structure with which our Lord conveys His teachings on these matters): " Beware of false prophets who come in the clothed as sheep but inwardly are ravenous wolves. By their fruits you will know them. Does one gather grapes from thorns or from thistles figs? A good tree produce good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. Neither does a bad tree produce good fruit or a good tree, bad fruit. A tree that is not producing fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, then, you will know them by their fruits." Notice the structure: ● Preliminary introduction to what the teaching concerns (false prophets). ● Parable to help explain (the reasonable nature of) the teaching (compare trees producing fruit with people whose actions and fruits can expose them or exonerate them of bad or good intent, respectively). ● And finally the spiritual summary of the parable (know people by their fruits). Now let's look at the passage about 'prison' again with its immediate context, just as above: " Therefore if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. Make peace with your accuser quickly while you are with him on the way, lest he deliver you to the judge and the judge to the officer and are cast into prison. Amen I say to you, You shall not leave there until you pay the last penny." Again, notice: ● Preliminary introduction to what the teaching concerns (forgive one another) ● Parable to help explain (the reasonable nature of) the teaching (compares being sent to prison for crime(s) and not being able to leave until you pay something for it, so make reparation for misdeeds now while you can) ● And finally the spiritual summary of the parable (make reparation for your sins because you won't leave prison (purgatory) until you have made reparation down to "the last penny"—however figurative or literal the punishment is) (Notice that the idea of 'prison' or holding place is used, just like in the other passage about Christ going to the netherworld to "preach to the spirits in prison" [1 Peter 3:18 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=198s)-21]—significant usage, see also the overtones therefore in Hebrews 13:3) To prove that this is a spiritual lesson and not the spiritually blind/Scripturally ignorant interpretation that it is talking about going to earthly prison amidst a sermon on the Kingdom of God, look at this other passage which corroborates this clear teaching without ambiguity: (the immediately prior context is forgiving one's brother, again—the unmerciful servant) Matthew 18:33 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=1113s)-35 "*'Should you not have had mercy on your fellow servant, just as I had on you?'* In his anger, his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should repay all that he owed. That is how My Heavenly Father will treat each of you, unless you forgive your brother from your heart." ● Preliminary introduction to what the teaching concerns (forgive one another as God forgives you). ● Parable to help explain (the reasonable nature of) the teaching (compares an angry master having a servant turned over for failing to forgive as he was forgiven with God demanding that ones sins also be purged, i.e. not forgiving your brother). ● And finally the spiritual summary of the parable (God demands punishment _until you pay back what is due to Him)._ This is too clear to need explanation, He even explicitly says: "THAT IS HOW MY HEAVENLY FATHER WILL TREAT EACH OF YOU...." in direct reference to His words: "In his anger, his master turned him over to the jailers to be TORTURED, UNTIL he should repay all that he owed." I submit to you, it cannot be clearer or more explicit. it's far more explicit than the existence of Abraham's Bosom/Limbo of the Fathers. God bless.
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Buck Haberthy 1 year ago
Minister straker king James? Where was that before the Bible? Lots of errors in kj
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Buck Haberthy 1 year ago
Minister straker hmmm the scientific method of historical is based on two principles: early attestation (aka Church Fathers); multiple attestation (many witnesses). I'll believe them over waiting for the Bible to finally get printed hundreds of years later. Where is the word Bible in the Bible?
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Buck Haberthy 1 year ago
King James Bible in 1604-1611! Yikes and built on various ENGLISH translations based on the heretical Church of England. Based on Tyndale which was inspired by heretical Luthers German Bible. Which was condemned in England; in particular St Thomas More. Why? Because many terms were mistranslated in favor of anti-clerical views. King James Version departed by the Vulgate, which was based on more ancient manuscripts. It's plagued by incorrect doctrine
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Kono Koo 1 year ago (edited)
Minister straker....don't you find it odd that God the Holy Spirit did not reveal the doctrines of faith alone and Scripture alone for 1500 years? These beliefs were never taught before Luther, Calvin and Zwingly became "enlightened". When it became apparent to Fr. Luther that the divisions between the first "reformers" was problematic in that how could one explain the HS leading these men to different interpretations, he called a meeting. The meeting didn't go well and they parted on very bad terms. NO....Protestantism is confusion. Confusion is not from God. Plus, the Book which Protestantism relies on is the product of the Roman Catholic Church. How is it that heretics 1500 years later presume the CC cannot interpret their own Book...but they can? Makes zero sense. Personally the real kicker for me was when I would hear Evangelical apologists claim that OSAS vs loose your salvation just wasn't that important. What? Huh? If loosing your salvation is true (which it is, as Scripture is very, very clear on)...I think it very important to know. Don't you?
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GSRider 4 months ago
An incredible explanation Ave Christus Rex although I fear that it falls upon deaf ears with straker. His water glass is a little shallow for that ocean. Also good points Kono Koo. Spot on!! God Bless!
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Tom Berryhill 2 months ago
King James Version? No thanks. I'll keep my King Jesus Bible.
I agree with most of this. (Except the top part)
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 08, 2018, 10:11:44 AM
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Sorry, I didn't see your post until now. First, the things in the video I agree with...............
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The author appears to be passionate regarding study of ancient Greek philosophy, and I agree that's a commendable quality, however, we ought to keep in mind that ancient Greece wasn't a euphoria or a paradise of correct thinking; they had their problems too. The video doesn't get into how extreme their problems were -- problems that we can hardly imagine today, but once we succeed in imagining how they lived it can be imagined how their problems could have actually transpired.
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The study of ancient Greek philosophical thinking is a huge subject and would only be misunderstood in a cursory abbreviation.
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It's quite possible by cherry-picking to make it seem that all Greeks were devil worshipers and practitioners of the dark arts, which is just about as valid as saying anyone who uses modern technology is going to hell for sure because it's evil. Then what are you doing typing on the Internet?
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It seems to me the author's leap from the studies and observations made in B.C. Greece to his pet theory of flat-earthism is pretty flimsy stuff. It would take a lot of time to go back and fill in all the blanks. Especially difficult when you guys keep leaping to off-topic themes such as the SECOND video posted above, which has utterly nothing to do with the first video. It's all about Catholic theology, Modernism, progressivism, the errors of Communism, and God's truth. Which are all great themes but objectively irrelevant in context of this thread.
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Finally, sometimes a comment below a video is just as memorable as the video itself:
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I see that God created a globe earth, not a flat earth.  
Satan has come to destroy this 3-D world and flatten it like a pancake.  
Then Satan will imprison everyone under a dome like the kind used to cover pies in a bakery.


Well, yes, ancient Greece was hardly a paradise. But I don't think that the author of the video is making the claim that it was a paradise, at least not that I noticed.

The author is trying to show how Gnosticism has played a part in the current globe earth theory. Since he has a Protestant background, he isn't going to understand that even ancient Greeks can be observers of Natural Law, if they sincerely try to understand it, which Aristotle tried to do with some success.

Do you disagree that the globe earth model originally comes from pagan/gnostic sources? What is the author of the video wrong about in this regard, that you can explain? Because really, that seems to be his whole point. That the globe earth comes from pagan/gnostic sources, and has been perpetuated by them.
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 08, 2018, 10:03:26 PM
It's true St. Thomas extracted from Aristotle, and was able to dodge nearly all of the poisonous Gnostic arrows, but not all.  St. Thomas credited Aristotle with proving earth to be a globe because he trusted Aristotle, relying on him as the source, and not Scripture.  Without the compass of truth, even the greatest men can find themselves towed under the Gnostic wave.  I have another video for you that you are going to love even more.  It connects more dots about truth than you'll ever imagine existed, and its entirely Catholic.  It helps address your own weaknesses which is great, but also, keep flat earth in mind as you listen because without even knowing it, this priest proves the modern science globe false.  It is just over an hour, but 100% necessary as the information just keeps on coming. Let me know what you think.    
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI_vTyP8f9k&t=2s  

I watched the entire video. Is it Fr. Ripperger that's speaking? The subject matter seems to be something that he'd discuss.
A few thoughts on the video. First, Father talks about the traditional levels of Truth, and explains each. He emphasizes that the traditional understanding of Truth is hierarchical:
1. God as highest truth
2. Ontological truth
3. Logical truth
4. Truthfulness

He then talks about the Sciences as being distinguished by the level of truth being sought - the higher the truth, the higher the science, and they correct the ones that are lower, and provide principles for them. He says that a small mistake in the foundation leads to bigger problems later, and that a small error in the premise leads to bigger problems in the conclusion.
He says that the hierarchy of sciences are thus:

1.Theology - study of highest truth...God....using divine revelation
2.Theoretical science
       -Metaphysics (philosophy including psychology)
       -Physics
       -Mathematics
3. Practical sciences (doing something)
       -Politics
       -Ethics
       -Logic
4. Productive science: making, building, art, poetry

All that are lower borrow from those above, i.e., engineering needs physics, poetry and music need mathematics, etc.

He says that these truths are object based.

-Truth is vertical in that it seeks to elevate man's mind upward to the Creator.
-Clear, ordered, hierarchical and object based.
-is of the rational part of man.
-is unchanging and permanent in that it depends on the essences that God placed in things from the beginning
-is humble - we accept it.

Father now describes the new understanding of truth which comes from Modernity and the Enlightenment. Rene Descartes - the father of modern philosophy - rightly perceived that all truths are linked to one another, but he built his system on man's rational powers alone..."I think, therefore I am." Descartes effectively made Man arbiter of all things true and false. Immanuel Kant, being influenced by Descartes, said...."Have courage to use your own understanding." The motto of the enlightenment. Man is his own supreme guide.

He then goes on to describe how the new truth involves motions/becoming. Newton spoke of motion, the laws of physics, everything is in motion. Darwin spoke of natural selection and evolution, while Hegel and Marx used a notion of a dialectic. So the key  is..."becoming." Nothing is this way is made by God; it's still "becoming."

He then describes the Hegelian dialectic, which also involves a continual "becoming."

Perhaps the most interesting thing that Father mentions is that the Natural Sciences are now in charge:

-Hierarchy of sciences breaks down
-Math and physics and other natural sciences will tell us what is true and what to believe
-The motto of the 1933 Chicago Century of Progress World's Fair:
"Science finds, industry applies, Man conforms."

Father says at the end..."Unless we get back to a proper ordered, God centered understanding of Truth, in a hierarchical way, these trials will only continue."
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 09, 2018, 01:25:06 AM
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Congratulations to you, Meg, you paid attention, took notes, and learned from a good teacher.
That's no small thing. Most people wouldn't be bothered to do what you just did.
And to top it off, you seem to have enjoyed it.
If you did, I'm happy for you! 
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I'd like to point out something that you might have noticed but didn't manage to write down.
Fr. speeds by this pretty fast so if you're not already familiar with it, you might not notice.
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In the following outline, what is easily mistaken by someone with only a modern set of references
(Like Wikipedia, a dictionary, encyclopedia, some books on science or psychology, modern magazines, MSM, TV, Radio)
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He says that a small mistake in the foundation leads to bigger problems later, and that a small error in the premise leads to bigger problems in the conclusion.

He says that the hierarchy of sciences are thus:

...

2. Theoretical science
       -Metaphysics (philosophy including psychology)
       -Physics
       -Mathematics
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Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: happenby on June 09, 2018, 01:41:19 AM
He then goes on to describe how the new truth involves motions/becoming. Newton spoke of motion, the laws of physics, everything is in motion. Darwin spoke of natural selection and evolution, while Hegel and Marx used a notion of a dialectic. So the key  is..."becoming." Nothing is this way is made by God; it's still "becoming."


This "becoming" is incredibly telling because it shows modern science mirrors those false ideas promoted by the hierarchy of the Church: Science is now the physical basis for, and promotes the notion of "becoming", of changing reality, of relative truth, and even malleable doctrine. The moving globe of modern science makes possible all evolution from the physical point of view, which as your quote shows, insists on change.  Change has become the essential ingredient that fundamentally undermines both physical and spiritual reality.  

Vertical truth, that is, truth received from God, is not tolerated in man-based science, because  it is unchangeable. And because it leaves us answerable to God.  For modern man, a peer to peer truth makes possible new scientific doctrines capable of change.  This slippery slope is secured by the moving globe, and the theory of evolutionary change depends on it.  With our new moving foundation having replaced a fixed foundation, this now puts the idea of vertical truth (God) in question because Scripture is proven inaccurate.  Man's science quietly provides tangible proof that God doesn't exist.  Modern man instead believes and worships a new god...himself.  Man has discarded truth in science, once protected by Scripture and Tradition (things moderns don't even understand) and gave the authority to himself to make change a necessity so that absolute truth really no longer exists. Spherical earth fills in the blanks because, on the ball, trajectory and direction are not absolute--they change.  North South East and West are relative because earth is a ball.  Without beginning or end.  Man just agrees with himself exactly where these places happen to be, today.  Man agrees up is up depending on the individual and where he's at.  Level isn't level because its actually a curve.  And people BELIEVE these things because science says so.  There can be nothing "true" on a spherical foundation, but that's ok for modern man because science tells us everything's relative. "True" is subject to what man thinks it is. Down is relative on a sphere where man is content to live upside down compared to other people, yet he still stands up.  No problem.  Science says so.  Man has decided that it's perfectly ok to grade God's truth on the curve. Man, by way of science, has become the god of his own changeable and directionless world.  He accepts nothing from God about his world, because he has become enlightened beyond the fixed rules he refuses to live by.  Now, if man's internal compass is this messed up physically speaking, what pray tell does that do to him spiritually speaking?  

It would be impossible to show all the connections truth reveals about our metaphysical world. All the things you listed about the video, by way of reflection, reveal way more when carefully considered.  Naturally it would...it's all about Truth!  Seems its the kind of video you have to listen to more than once in order to actually absorb all there is in it.  Great note-taking by the way.  

 
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Smedley Butler on June 09, 2018, 09:05:50 AM
Happenby shows she understands the philosophical ramifications of globe earth, where Neil and Jaynek clearly do not. 


Globe earth (i.e. "science") shows the Bible to be wrong therefore God does not exist.

The Bible is not wrong.


t
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: happenby on June 09, 2018, 11:45:55 AM
Happenby shows she understands the philosophical ramifications of globe earth, where Neil and Jaynek clearly do not.


Globe earth (i.e. "science") shows the Bible to be wrong therefore God does not exist.

The Bible is not wrong.


t
Yes, SB, they clearly do not.  However, they'll answer, "Scripture isn't wrong, it just doesn't say anything about the shape of the earth".  But can any reasonable Catholic insist that is the case when they study Scripture for themselves? Scripture describes a flat earth, with its roof held up by 'pillars', "supports" "mountains", that earth sits below heaven, is fixed, is a foundation, is the floor that sits under a dome, is like a tent, is situated above hell, has a face, has boundaries beyond the seas, has breadth, with land mass encircled by the seas like a compass, has four corners, has windows to let in the rain water above the firmament, has wind storehouses at the four corners, is an expanse, can be seen to its ends from high places, and more... this all reflects the unchangeable vertical truth. These descriptions are expounded upon by the Fathers of the Church.  Flat fixed geocentric earth was widely understood as revealed truth because Scripture says it in so many ways. Wiki explains how well people understood what Scripture was saying:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_creation_narrative (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_creation_narrative)
The cosmos created in Genesis 1 bears a striking resemblance to the Tabernacle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabernacle) in Exodus 35–40, which was the prototype of the Temple in Jerusalem and the focus of priestly worship of Yahweh (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh); for this reason, and because other Middle Eastern creation stories also climax with the construction of a temple/house for the creator-god, Genesis 1 can be interpreted as a description of the construction of the cosmos as God's house, for which the Temple in Jerusalem served as the earthly representative.[31] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_creation_narrative#cite_note-FOOTNOTELevenson200413-31)

Wiki also explains that in 1584, Giordano Bruno (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno) proposed a cosmology without firmament: an infinite universe in which the stars are actually suns with their own planetary systems.

What do we know about Bruno?

Giordano Bruno (/dʒɔːrˈdɑːnoʊ ˈbruːnoʊ/ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/English); Italian: [dʒorˈdaːno ˈbruːno] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Italian); Latin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_language): Iordanus Brunus Nolanus; 1548 – 17 February 1600), born Filippo Bruno, was an Italian Dominican (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Order) friar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friar), philosopher (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher), mathematician (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematician), poet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poet), and cosmological theorist.[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno#cite_note-3) He is known for his cosmological theories, which conceptually extended the then-novel Copernican (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copernican_heliocentrism) model. He proposed that the stars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars) were just distant suns (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun) surrounded by their own exoplanets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoplanets) and raised the possibility that these planets could even foster life of their own (a philosophical position known as cosmic pluralism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_pluralism)). He also insisted that the universe is in fact infinite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity) and could have no celestial body at its "center". Starting in 1593, Bruno was tried for heresy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_heresy) by the Roman Inquisition (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Inquisition) on charges of denial of several core Catholic doctrines, including eternal damnation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell), the Trinity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity), the divinity of Christ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christology), the virginity of Mary (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_(mother_of_Jesus)), and transubstantiation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation).

Wiki makes a claim that Bruno is

Wiki shows how change took a foothold in science:
The word "firmament" is used to translate rāqîaʿ (רָקִ֫יעַ‬), a word used in Biblical Hebrew (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew). It is derived from the root raqqəʿ (רָקַע), meaning "to beat or spread out thinly", e.g., the process of making a dish by hammering thin a lump of metal.[5] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament#cite_note-etymol-5)[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament#cite_note-BlueLetter-6)
Like most ancient peoples, the Hebrews believed the sky was a solid dome with the Sun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun), Moon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon), planets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets) and stars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stars) embedded in it
The Copernican Revolution (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copernican_Revolution) of the 16th century led to reconsideration of these matters. In 1554, John Calvin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin) proposed that "firmament" be interpreted as clouds.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament#cite_note-Luigi-12) "He who would learn astronomy and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere," wrote Calvin.[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament#cite_note-Luigi-12) "As it became a theologian, [Moses] had to respect us rather than the stars," Calvin wrote. Calvin's doctrine of accommodation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accommodation_(religion)) allowed Protestants to accept the findings of science without rejecting the authority of scripture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin%27s_view_of_Scripture).

Calvin's "doctrine of accommodation" is the Protestant explanation for CHANGE in science.  With the Protestant heresy booming at the time, this concept spread like wildfire. It's true that many Protestants remained loyal to Scripture and ignored Calvin's change of the meaning of Scripture.  To their credit of course.  Sadly, those were the Cafeteria Catholics of their time, who remained loyal to some truth, but not others, by denying other unchangeable truths Scripture teaches, like Christ's perfect sacrifice whereby He feeds his sheep with His Flesh and that He established One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

Like with flat earth, Scripture doesn't specifically say One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic as marks of the Church, yet it is truth drawn from Scripture.  These marks are like the pillars of the foundation of the Church, likened to the pillars and foundation of earth.


More Wiki:
The idea that the earth was a sphere was developed by the Greeks in the 6th century BCE, and by the 3rd century BCE this was generally accepted by educated Romans and Greeks and even by some Jews.[56] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDahlGauvin200017-56) The author of Revelation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Revelation), however, assumed a flat earth in 7:1.[57 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology#cite_note-FOOTNOTEFarmer200533-57)  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology#cite_note-FOOTNOTEDahlGauvin200017-56

Ah, yes, the four winds at the four corners.  St. John knew earth is not a globe.


Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: aryzia on June 09, 2018, 01:09:50 PM
Amazing how much evidence must be denied in order to maintain the doctrine of change. It's not like the globe earth helps to understand the Catholic liturgy or Scripture.The science of the globe is all about change.
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: happenby on June 09, 2018, 01:21:21 PM
This religious accommodation has been adopted by Catholic prelates in the interest of bringing about world peace by the works of man and One World Religion.  Thanks in part, to the science of change and accommodation.  And Catholics wonder where Bergoglio came from.  He is merely the manifestation of their own silent apostasy from which they need to awaken.

Wiki admits it if you understand the problem of "change".  

The divinity of Christ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinity_of_Christ), who is believed to be fully man and yet fully God, shows how the Godhead (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhead_(Christianity)) has accommodated itself to human minds and experience. Many Christians, especially those from a Reformed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinist) background, see in the person and work of Christ not only the supreme form of accommodation, but the centre and reason for it as well.


While many Christians debate the meaning of Christ's death and resurrection, Christians who proclaim a substitution-based theology of atonement believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world as an atoning sin-substitute, and that his resurrection from the dead brings new life to all who have faith in him. This message, common in evangelical (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism) churches, is also considered as a form of accommodation when it is proclaimed publicly.

Through the corporate imbibing (consuming) of the wine and the bread, God is able to commune with his people in a special and unique way – not in terms of transubstantiation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transubstantiation), but within the participants of the whole ceremony.


Naturally, not in terms of real transubstantiation, because that is an unchangeable doctrine of the Catholic Church, and does not fit the accommodation/change principle that allows for some doctrine, not others.  Also, that particular doctrine is too absolute.  It must be adapted to the experience of man.  So, if you want to believe Jesus is present, in some Protestant churches, you can.  But you don't have to.  They aren't even claiming it's Jesus. But you can believe it if you want.  Even in the Catholic Church.  For now.  Marriage permanent?  Not anymore.    Accommodation.  Change.  Evolution.  Courtesy of, and supported by, science falsely so-called.  
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 09, 2018, 07:52:04 PM
.
Congratulations to you, Meg, you paid attention, took notes, and learned from a good teacher.
That's no small thing. Most people wouldn't be bothered to do what you just did.
And to top it off, you seem to have enjoyed it.
If you did, I'm happy for you!


Thanks. Did you watch the video?
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 09, 2018, 07:58:38 PM

.
He says that a small mistake in the foundation leads to bigger problems later, and that a small error in the premise leads to bigger problems in the conclusion.

He says that the hierarchy of sciences are thus:

...

2. Theoretical science
      -Metaphysics (philosophy including psychology)
      -Physics
      -Mathematics
.

Did you miss number one from the above list? I'll remind you: the first item on the list, and the most important, is "Theology." It's the study of the highest truth....God...using Divine Revelation. The higher Truths are to inform the lower truths. Notice that "Theoretical Science" is second, not first on the list, as such, it should be informed by Divine Revelation. How is the globe earth informed by Divine Revelation?
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 09, 2018, 08:56:06 PM
Did you miss number one from the above list? I'll remind you: the first item on the list, and the most important, is "Theology." It's the study of the highest truth....God...using Divine Revelation. The higher Truths are to inform the lower truths. Notice that "Theoretical Science" is second, not first on the list, as such, it should be informed by Divine Revelation. How is the globe earth informed by Divine Revelation?
.
I'm not taking issue with the first item. I'm saying that there is something about the second item that is easily mistaken.
Do you want to know what that is, or are you going to ignore it?
Because the consequence of ignoring it is remaining in ignorance and being mistaken.
Remember the first part of the quoted portion above, "...a small mistake in the foundation leads to bigger problems later, and a small error in the premise leads to bigger problems in the conclusion." Being mistaken is a big problem.
.
Thanks. Did you watch the video?
.
You're welcome.
.
I thought it would be obvious, but if you must see my literal answer: Yes. I watched the video, and that is why I wrote the reply I did which you quoted. I watched, and then I saw your outline, and I thought you did a very good job.
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 09, 2018, 10:21:11 PM

Do you disagree that the globe earth model originally comes from pagan/gnostic sources? 
.
The model of the earth as a spheroid comes to us from direct personal measurement and specific empirical observation of reality.
.
Even without any historical reference, anyone today with a telescope and simple measuring tools can observe the sphericity of earth.
.
There are numerous ways to do that, and I have mentioned some of them in previous posts which you no doubt must have seen.
.
Here is another example which I don't think I had mentioned previously:
.
.
An observer of the heavens located in Sydney, facing south, looks UP and sees the Southern Cross in the night sky, close to dawn.
Another observer, in Johannesburg, facing south, looks UP at the same moment (in late evening) and sees the same stars.
.
Question:
What do these two observers notice about the position of the same constellation at the same moment of time?
Answer:
They see the Southern Cross at opposite sides of the sky, if one sees it in the eastern sky, then the other sees it in the western sky.
.
But they're both on earth, they're both looking UP at the same Southern Cross, and it is at the same time (in different time zones).
.
The question for you, and for ALL FLAT-EARTHERS is this: 
How can you explain this fact, using any flat-earth model you choose?
Because no matter how you slice it, these observers would be looking in very different directions off the "flat" earth.
They would be looking in very different directions but they are both seeing the same Southern Cross. 
How can this be possible? IOW this is what is meant by "empirical observation."
.
BTW this phenomenon is readily and simply explained and understood using a spherical earth model.
The two observers are seeing the Southern Cross from nearly opposite sides of the Southern Hemisphere, on the globe.
Their orientation is nearly opposite to each other and this explains why the same stars appear to be in nearly opposite positions.
.
This same test can be done from any two locations in the Southern Hemisphere separated by 120 or more degrees of longitude.
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 10, 2018, 07:02:24 AM
.
I'm not taking issue with the first item. I'm saying that there is something about the second item that is easily mistaken.
Do you want to know what that is, or are you going to ignore it?
Because the consequence of ignoring it is remaining in ignorance and being mistaken.
Remember the first part of the quoted portion above, "...a small mistake in the foundation leads to bigger problems later, and a small error in the premise leads to bigger problems in the conclusion." Being mistaken is a big problem.
..
You're welcome.
.
I thought it would be obvious, but if you must see my literal answer: Yes. I watched the video, and that is why I wrote the reply I did which you quoted. I watched, and then I saw your outline, and I thought you did a very good job.

Go ahead and tell me what it is then (mistake in the premise). I know about the part where Father mentioned a mistake in the premise. You of course (I assume) want to say that the mistake has to do with a flat earth, is that correct? Or is it something else?

Because at least the flat earth lines up with the vertical and hierarchical idea of truth, in that it depends on revelation. The globe earth does not. And if mathematics (on which the globe earth depends) is to be informed by revelation, then you'll have to show how that works.

Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 11, 2018, 02:52:29 PM
Go ahead and tell me what it is then (mistake in the premise). I know about the part where Father mentioned a mistake in the premise.
.
It seems you are willing to hear what I have to say, and then...
Quote
You of course (I assume) want to say that the mistake has to do with a flat earth, is that correct? Or is it something else?
.
Immediately you presume that IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT FLAT EARTH. This knee-jerk apprehension of yours is rather unsettling.
All of reality does not hinge on whether the earth is spherical or "flat."
.

Quote
Because at least the flat earth lines up with the vertical and hierarchical idea of truth, in that it depends on revelation. The globe earth does not. And if mathematics (on which the globe earth depends) is to be informed by revelation, then you'll have to show how that works.
.
In case there was any doubt, you just proved me correct. All you care about is the shape of the earth. You stake your whole reason for existing on whether the earth is "flat" or not, and you make it such a fundamental principle that nothing could be real to you EXCEPT that the earth be "flat" as you have repeatedly stated.
.
So there is nothing to discuss, apparently.
You're behaving just like a trapped, wild animal, terrified of everything because its reality is upset and it can't run away.
.
You're presuming that your flat-earthism is a matter of DIVINE REVELATION and therefore nothing that challenges this ideological construct could possibly be real. You have put yourself into a Shangri-La dreamland, from which there is no escape. Are you aware that Immanuel Kant, David Hume, Friederich Nietzsche and Karl Marx (along with others) likewise put themselves into a dead-end ideological construct out of which there was no possibility of egress?
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 11, 2018, 05:34:49 PM
.
It seems you are willing to hear what I have to say, and then....
Immediately you presume that IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT FLAT EARTH. This knee-jerk apprehension of yours is rather unsettling.
All of reality does not hinge on whether the earth is spherical or "flat."
.
.
In case there was any doubt, you just proved me correct. All you care about is the shape of the earth. You stake your whole reason for existing on whether the earth is "flat" or not, and you make it such a fundamental principle that nothing could be real to you EXCEPT that the earth be "flat" as you have repeatedly stated.
.
So there is nothing to discuss, apparently.
You're behaving just like a trapped, wild animal, terrified of everything because its reality is upset and it can't run away.
.
You're presuming that your flat-earthism is a matter of DIVINE REVELATION and therefore nothing that challenges this ideological construct could possibly be real. You have put yourself into a Shangri-La dreamland, from which there is no escape. Are you aware that Immanuel Kant, David Hume, Friederich Nietzsche and Karl Marx (along with others) likewise put themselves into a dead-end ideological construct out of which there was no possibility of egress?


Yes, I am willing too see what you have to say; that is, if it's something new, AND, if you are able to address the issue in a mature manner.  

As far as caring as only about the flat earth, well, this is the flat earth subforum, so yeah, I'm going to care about the flat earth here.

I don't see how anything I have said of late sounds like a wild trapped animal. That doesn't really even make any sense.
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Meg on June 12, 2018, 08:49:47 AM
He then goes on to describe how the new truth involves motions/becoming. Newton spoke of motion, the laws of physics, everything is in motion. Darwin spoke of natural selection and evolution, while Hegel and Marx used a notion of a dialectic. So the key  is..."becoming." Nothing is this way is made by God; it's still "becoming."


This "becoming" is incredibly telling because it shows modern science mirrors those false ideas promoted by the hierarchy of the Church: Science is now the physical basis for, and promotes the notion of "becoming", of changing reality, of relative truth, and even malleable doctrine. The moving globe of modern science makes possible all evolution from the physical point of view, which as your quote shows, insists on change.  Change has become the essential ingredient that fundamentally undermines both physical and spiritual reality.  

Vertical truth, that is, truth received from God, is not tolerated in man-based science, because  it is unchangeable. And because it leaves us answerable to God.  For modern man, a peer to peer truth makes possible new scientific doctrines capable of change.  This slippery slope is secured by the moving globe, and the theory of evolutionary change depends on it.  With our new moving foundation having replaced a fixed foundation, this now puts the idea of vertical truth (God) in question because Scripture is proven inaccurate.  Man's science quietly provides tangible proof that God doesn't exist.  Modern man instead believes and worships a new god...himself.  Man has discarded truth in science, once protected by Scripture and Tradition (things moderns don't even understand) and gave the authority to himself to make change a necessity so that absolute truth really no longer exists. Spherical earth fills in the blanks because, on the ball, trajectory and direction are not absolute--they change.  North South East and West are relative because earth is a ball.  Without beginning or end.  Man just agrees with himself exactly where these places happen to be, today.  Man agrees up is up depending on the individual and where he's at.  Level isn't level because its actually a curve.  And people BELIEVE these things because science says so.  There can be nothing "true" on a spherical foundation, but that's ok for modern man because science tells us everything's relative. "True" is subject to what man thinks it is. Down is relative on a sphere where man is content to live upside down compared to other people, yet he still stands up.  No problem.  Science says so.  Man has decided that it's perfectly ok to grade God's truth on the curve. Man, by way of science, has become the god of his own changeable and directionless world.  He accepts nothing from God about his world, because he has become enlightened beyond the fixed rules he refuses to live by.  Now, if man's internal compass is this messed up physically speaking, what pray tell does that do to him spiritually speaking?  

It would be impossible to show all the connections truth reveals about our metaphysical world. All the things you listed about the video, by way of reflection, reveal way more when carefully considered.  Naturally it would...it's all about Truth!  Seems its the kind of video you have to listen to more than once in order to actually absorb all there is in it.  Great note-taking by the way.  

 


Very good thoughts above, regarding modern science, vs. God's truth.

I agree that man has, as is pointed out in the above post, "by the way of science, become the god of his own changeable and directionless world; and that he accepts nothing from God about his world, because he has become enlightened beyond the fixed rules he refuses to live by." Well said.

That's modern man, definitely. And the globe earth is the foundation of it. We are insignificant when compared to that vast expanse of space, of which the "globe earth" is just a tiny and insignificant speck.

If I have time, there's more I'd like to address regarding that excellent video.
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Smedley Butler on June 12, 2018, 09:03:02 AM
Neil is starting to sound a little deranged. 
Title: Re: Heliocentric Model Came From Pagans
Post by: Neil Obstat on June 21, 2018, 10:29:04 PM
Neil is starting to sound a little deranged.
.
Smedley the Chicken keeps trying to run away from the discussion! 
What's the matter Smedley? Can't manage to stand up and face reality?
Afraid of the truth? 
Here's Smedley:
(https://s17-us2.startpage.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.dreamstime.com%2Fb%2Fexpressions-man-terrified-feeling-fear-15884544.jpg&sp=ea275b7e53fc96103cc565b3ef42947c)