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Author Topic: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?  (Read 24947 times)

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Offline JoeZ

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Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2024, 05:07:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 15, 2024, 07:58:38 AM
    That's been dealt with very simply.  You just don't want to see it.  There's a certain window of a few minutes where the very West of Australia, the East of South America, and of course South Africa are all in darkness, and where they could see the Southern Cross at the same time.  This isn't even particularly difficult.
    I'm sorry for not properly articulating the difficulty FE has with the Southern Cross. In order for it to be viewed it surely must be night time in all three places and I agree it is but the distance involved cannot be overcome. How can the Southern Cross be seen south of three points on the outside rim of the FE when looking south from any of them is looking 120° away from the other two? And on top of it they would be some 20,000 miles apart which means the sun is closer but it can't be seen but the same stars are seen? 
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    Offline JoeZ

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #46 on: January 15, 2024, 05:09:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 15, 2024, 07:58:38 AM
     You just don't want to see it.  
    With all due respect, how could you know this and what competency do you have to judge?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #47 on: January 15, 2024, 05:10:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: JoeZ on January 15, 2024, 05:07:18 PM
    I'm sorry for not properly articulating the difficulty FE has with the Southern Cross. In order for it to be viewed it surely must be night time in all three places and I agree it is but the distance involved cannot be overcome. How can the Southern Cross be seen south of three points on the outside rim of the FE when looking south from any of them is looking 120° away from the other two? And on top of it they would be some 20,000 miles apart which means the sun is closer but it can't be seen but the same stars are seen?

    How can the distances not be overcome?  We're talking about a difference of a few thousand miles between the point.  Modern science claims that they're millions of miles away.  Even at a distance of some thousands of miles away a few thousand miles (I haven't done the calculations) shouldn't make a difference.  What should be compared is the location / angle of the Southern cross from different vantage points, i.e if it's due South from South Africa, then where in the sky does it appear from a certain point in South America, and then from Australia and are the consistent ... on those few occasions that it may be viewable from all three locations at the same time?  It doesn't matter that the continents are looking 120 degrees away form one another.  What matters is the orientation of the viewer and where in the sky the Southern Cross appears.  I can stand in the middle of my yard and rotate 360 degrees.
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    Offline JoeZ

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #48 on: January 15, 2024, 10:26:19 PM »
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    • The Crux circles the in the night sky 30° from due south, at all times and everywhere that it can be seen.

    Using the Gleason map, draw a line from the North Pole, through the observer at the bottom of those three continents, and continue the line to the map edge. The observer needs to have his back to the North Pole and look down the line to the map edge to be looking south. The Crux is in the night sky inside 30° of his line of sight so, south of the observer draw a 60° circle (hint: that's 1/6 of the total circuмference of the earth each).   Now draw that same circle for the other two continents and those circles are not all coincident. Not even close. They don't even touch. There is no time of night where it could be the same stars.

    The distance is a separate issue. If they are the same stars somehow, and they are currently over South America (because they rotate in the firmament) how could Australia see them as those two observers are almost 35,000 miles apart on the Gleason map. The sun itself can only be 12,000 miles from Australia at the farthest but at that distance it is hidden (night). How does a star appear 30,000 miles away when the sun can't appear 12,000 miles?

    Also, how is it that the Crux circles in the sky at all? It should follow the firmament and rotate once per day the entire circuмference of the earth and appear to rise and set like the sun and moon.

    Good night and God bless,
    JoeZ
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    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #49 on: January 16, 2024, 10:17:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: MiracleOfTheSun on January 15, 2024, 12:29:54 PM
    Several of those exist and are recorded at minimal height.  What would that suggest or does that suggest anything?  Could you call that a demonstrable proof?
    They certainly get credit for their effort. I don't have any positive doubt as to the honestly of their intentions, but they only prove that a laser can be seen in those circuмstances. It's hard enough work to accomplish what they did, but they should thoroughly try to discredit their own experiment as FE proof to see if it holds up as certain FE proof. Rule out any other possible variable. If I tried, I could probably think of a good 20 more experiments to use to test how trustworthy the long distance laser experiment is. Then, it would be a question of whether it is cheaper and easier just to send a long distance sounding rocket with cameras and transmitter into a polar orbit. It seems obvious that a laser can be trusted, but both light and laser beams are not as straight and simple as most believe, kind of like the pope situation.
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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #50 on: January 16, 2024, 12:13:29 PM »
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    • We know NASA that with it's fake spinning composite imagery for sure doesn't cut it but two way lasers over water don't either... 

    What's the experiment everyone would agree on as a proof?
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    Offline Hank Igitur

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #51 on: January 16, 2024, 04:39:54 PM »
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    • When the subject of Flat Earth recently came up in a conversation, a liberal professor of biology at a local college said to one of my friends that Flat Earth was "total nonsense" and supplied a video to him full of questions about it, saying "the day the Flat Earthers can answer these questions is the day I will agree with them." Here's the video:
     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsy5u8LkP-Q

    What are the answers to the questions? Thanks.
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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #52 on: January 16, 2024, 04:51:59 PM »
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    • I heard a string of statements but no questions. 
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    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #53 on: January 16, 2024, 07:14:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: MiracleOfTheSun on January 16, 2024, 12:13:29 PM
    We know NASA that with it's fake spinning composite imagery for sure doesn't cut it but two way lasers over water don't either... 

    What's the experiment everyone would agree on as a proof?
    Maybe a live feed from a polar orbiting sounding rocket. But NASA and Musk fake rocket videos all the time...

    ...so I'll just throw that back at anyone who doesn't want to believe videos by saying that, maybe I don't believe your FE proof videos are real.
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    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #54 on: January 17, 2024, 01:40:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: Hank Igitur on January 16, 2024, 04:39:54 PM
    When the subject of Flat Earth recently came up in a conversation, a liberal professor of biology at a local college said to one of my friends that Flat Earth was "total nonsense" and supplied a video to him full of questions about it, saying "the day the Flat Earthers can answer these questions is the day I will agree with them." Here's the video:
     

    What are the answers to the questions? Thanks.
    There's only one objection in the video and it's that supposedly 70,000 people worldwide would have to be lying about the shape of the Earth. That's not a particularly strong objection nor is it well-supported.

    Not everyone in a space agency need be in on it, actually only a few people at the top are much more manageable.

    It's really not an issue at all to keep people believing what 99% of people believe.

    But let's even assume there are 100,000 people in on it, there's plenty of ʝʊdɛօmasons sworn to secrecy and Epstein blackmailed useful idiots to go around and we know the famous actornauts are freemasons. Not to mention the whole "scientific community" is in on a conspiracy to suppress the truth about creation, vaccines, etc.

    Globers have much bigger problems, for example, where's the firmament separating the waters mentioned in the Bible over a hundred times?

    How can we see hundreds of miles?

    Then there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFz4ZZd1zj4

    If you want to know the truth there's plenty of material on this channel alone.

    Cheers.
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #55 on: August 20, 2024, 10:00:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on January 13, 2024, 12:35:51 PM
    Credo ut intelligam.

    What you're missing is that no current FE started off by believing that earth is flat.  We've all been indoctrinated into globe earth.  It took me personally 2 years of going through the evidence and arguments from both sides, before I became an FE, rather reluctantly.  Many of the current FEs actually set out to debunk it and then became convinced they had been wrong.

    My personal process:

    1) I think it's ridiculous, but because I deliberately keep an open mind, I'll have a look (based on posts that the FEs made in that sub-forum).  I can't just dismiss it and write it off while knowing very little about the case they're trying to make.

    2) Hmmm, this isn't as ridiculous as I thought.  There may be SOMEthing to it.  Let me dig some more.

    3) Wow, I'm starting to think they might be right.  I can't believe this.

    4) I lean FE (as I posted in the sub-forum)

    5) I'm completely convinced.

    This process took two years, and the one thing you have to already know to be able to successfully navigate through this is that the government lies like it's going out of style.  I already knew that the moon landings were a complete hoax, so it wasn't that much of a stretch to believe that NASA might be lying about other stuff as well.
    Ladislaus,  I just found this post.  All I ask is for you to give others the same courtesy that you gave yourself.   I have only been looking at flat earth on and off since November and like I have said in past posts I am a hard sell. 

    One thing is that refraction is not an easy calculation, there are so many variables that need to be looked at and we don't have an accurate way to measure them for long distances.  
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #56 on: August 20, 2024, 11:03:31 PM »
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    • Why do you believe in refraction if it’s not reliable?  Isn’t that anti-scientific method?
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    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #57 on: August 21, 2024, 08:07:56 AM »
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    • I said it is a complicated equation, which I would have to learn first and then use.  
    It is also hard to recreate on demand.  You would have to know exactly what the light was passing through and how warm or cold the air was.  These would have to be gathered at the time of any picture, but it is not. So we don't  have all of the variables to calculate it.

    Random thoughts:

    Looking at the moon and stars is less complicated, because there is less atmospher to look through. We may clearly see planes overheadb which are 5 miles above us, but not a boat on the water that is 3 miles away.


    At the horizon the sun and the moon don't have constant sizes like they do when they are over head.  There shape is determined by atmosphere pollution and the temp of the land between me and the object I am looking at.



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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #58 on: August 21, 2024, 08:49:35 AM »
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    • Quote
    I said it is a complicated equation, which I would have to learn first and then use.
    This is your first sign that the explanation is a farce. 

    Quote
    It is also hard to recreate on demand.
    Sign #2. 


    Something which is so complicated to figure out, and hard to recreate, does not sound like a fact, but a theory.  A fact is an easily observable, readily reproduceable, phenomenon.  Whenever anything is "too complicated" that's a sign you're being lied to.

    Similar to how "c0vid" (a respiratory virus) has morphed into "long c0vid", to explain all manner of increases in cancer, heart disease, strokes, etc.  "Long c0vid" is super "complicated" and it varies person to person, and it's hard to determine what effects the vax (er, I mean virus) has on people.

    Yet people fall for these lies everyday.  They have refused God as their guide, so he has let them follow and be deceived by tyrants and evildoers.  
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Guy Accidentally Proves Flat Earth?
    « Reply #59 on: August 21, 2024, 09:35:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Gray2023 on August 20, 2024, 10:00:40 PM
    Ladislaus,  I just found this post.  All I ask is for you to give others the same courtesy that you gave yourself.  I have only been looking at flat earth on and off since November and like I have said in past posts I am a hard sell. 

    I'm not sure what "courtesy" I gave myself.  I was just explaining the progression of my thought.  Certainly I receive no courtesies from most globe earthers, who subject me (and others who are FE) to derision and ridicule.  So, despite your claims to just be a "hard sell", your posts show clear evidence of confirmation bias so that it's clear you're not approaching the matter with a completely open mind.  If you're interested in the truth, you need to perform the thought experiment of forgetting that you think/believe that the earth is a globe and that NASA ever existed, and then go from there.  But that's clearly not the approach you're taking.

    In any case, only intellectual dishonesty can simply dismiss the mountains of evidence in favor of FE and falsifying the globe model.
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