Author Topic: God's Flat Earth in Scripture  (Read 2287 times)

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Offline An even Seven

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Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2017, 12:30:38 PM »
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  • I have provided many quotes from the Fathers which show either they themselves believed in Globe Earth or did not consider it at all useful/profitable for our salvation. I have more that I can post too. The only quote out there that explicitly condemns Globe Earth is from Lacantius.
    There is no absolute proof from Scriptures or Church Teaching that the shape of the Earth is this or that.
    As if these are actual teachings on the subject.  Or the only thing to be found in Tradition.  In fact, globers search high and low for confirmation of their error and ignore the mind of the Church on the matter, having dismissed a multitude of Catholic quotes, scripture and decrees, showing there is more to know.  Selective refutation has zero value.
    There is no difference between an intoxicated man and one full of his own opinion, and one is no more capable of reasoning than the other.----St. Francis de Sales

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #16 on: October 16, 2017, 12:35:03 PM »
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  • I have no disdain towards Pope Leo XIII. I have no idea where you got that from. Neither does your example make sense, since the NASA cartoon ball was not taught by Jesus Christ nor was it handed down by Apostolic tradition.
       Jesus didn't mention a lot of things that didn't yet exist, "perhaps" that's why the Apostles neglected to mention non-things as well.

       "It's a mystery."
    "Lord, have mercy".


    Offline happenby

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #17 on: October 16, 2017, 12:44:32 PM »
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  • I have provided many quotes from the Fathers which show either they themselves believed in Globe Earth or did not consider it at all useful/profitable for our salvation. I have more that I can post too. The only quote out there that explicitly condemns Globe Earth is from Lacantius.
    There is no absolute proof from Scriptures or Church Teaching that the shape of the Earth is this or that.
    You did, actually.  I failed to note that out loud.  I too have more to post and while the subject is deeper than trying to find where scripture or Fathers say emphatically earth is round or earth is flat, we can certainly continue to peel this onion until the truth comes out.  Scripture doesn't provide absolute proof, of that there is no doubt.  But it does give us a canvas on which to paint a picture that shows what is true.  Cosmas of Indiocopleustes, a 6th century Catholic monk at odds with pagans tells us that Moses reveals the form of the earth exactly as scripture describes: immovable, like a wax seal with upturned edges, with a dome, a face, four corners, pillars, like a tabernacle, and like a Church.  The globe is incompatible with these.  But further, the globe is incompatible with reason.  The pagan's rotating, hurling ball through space with water attached has no basis in reality.  It is a virtual world that defies logic.  And beyond that, it has no basis in science or math.  Compasses do not work on a globe.  Neither do astrolabes, sextants, gyros, light houses or levels.  Curve has never been demonstrated.  The sun and moon and stars are misrepresented by modern science as well.  With this much evidence something is afoot, we have a responsibility to revisit what we have been told.  

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #18 on: October 16, 2017, 12:45:37 PM »
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  • I have provided many quotes from the Fathers which show either they themselves believed in Globe Earth or did not consider it at all useful/profitable for our salvation. I have more that I can post too. The only quote out there that explicitly condemns Globe Earth is from Lacantius.
    There is no absolute proof from Scriptures or Church Teaching that the shape of the Earth is this or that.

    Total lie. You seem to really believe that. The delusions of sedevacantists....

    So to explain again for the honest readers...

    The emphasis of the flatness of the earth is a new one. We should talk about the whole of creation as it is, and has always been understood.

    The Fathers condemned the globe error many times. http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t60-pertinent-quotes-from-fathers-and-tradition . This showed they believed the traditional model of the earth being either a flat circle or a flat square, with the sun being what is moving.

    In any case our case is rock solid when you add the science. Something that no other minority group like the sedes or feenyites can do. They can't bring science into support their case.

    NO CURVATURE ON THE FLAT EARTH.

    http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/f9-flat-earth-proofs

    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #19 on: October 16, 2017, 12:50:41 PM »
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  • If people refer back to the thread on st. augustine, I outline  precisely how dishonest this even steven character is....
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017


    Offline Lastdays

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #20 on: October 16, 2017, 12:51:31 PM »
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  • In regards to the OP:

    There is not one quote at all, that explicitly says that the Earth is Flat
    Does your ball earth have pillars, foundations and corners? Does a footstool look like a ball? Can you see a tall tree or all the nations of the earth from the opposite side of a ball?

    Quote
    There is no reason that a firmament cannot be around a Globe Earth
    Sure there is. The firmament can never be below you.

    • Quote
      A figurative interpretation is appropriate in most of these Passages anyway because of nature of what's being taught i.e. the Awesomeness of the Creator and the lowness of the created.

    Error is never appropriate. The awesomeness of the creator is only part of what is taught. The fact that Heaven and Hell are actual places that are very near to us is also taught. Also, by rejecting one truth as "figurative", you open the door to reject more truth as "figurative", and eventually you end up with the NASA fabrication.
    Catholic Encyclopedia – Heresy, 1913: The Pope himself, if notoriously guilty of heresy, would cease to be Pope because he would cease to be a member of the Church.

    Offline An even Seven

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #21 on: October 16, 2017, 01:03:58 PM »
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  • You did, actually.  I failed to note that out loud.  I too have more to post and while the subject is deeper than trying to find where scripture or Fathers say emphatically earth is round or earth is flat, we can certainly continue to peel this onion until the truth comes out.  Scripture doesn't provide absolute proof, of that there is no doubt.  But it does give us a canvas on which to paint a picture that shows what is true.
    While the science may one day (or already?) prove the Earth is flat, as you say, "Scripture doesn't provide absolute proof". This is all that concerns me. Have at it with all the Science stuff, but the shape of the Earth is not part of Divine Revelation and the denial of the FE is not grounds for condemnation.
    There is no difference between an intoxicated man and one full of his own opinion, and one is no more capable of reasoning than the other.----St. Francis de Sales

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #22 on: October 16, 2017, 01:06:46 PM »
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  • trying to separate scripture from science especially when it science SUPPORTS scripture is called fideism.

    You are guilty of that. Now move on, and stop wasting our time please.
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017


    Offline An even Seven

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #23 on: October 16, 2017, 01:08:47 PM »
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  • Total lie. You seem to really believe that. The delusions of sedevacantists....

    The Fathers condemned the globe error many times. http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t60-pertinent-quotes-from-fathers-and-tradition . This showed they believed the traditional model of the earth being either a flat circle or a flat square, with the sun being what is moving.

     Something that no other minority group like the sedes or feenyites can do.
    First, way to alienate groups of people that you assumedly would want to convert to your FE religion.

    Second, You've already been exposed. The only explicit condemnation came from Lacantius. Anyone can look at your quotes. I have provided quotes from the Fathers that considered the Earth a sphere as well as quotes maintaining that this is absolutely not important for out salvation. You're only fooling yourself.
    There is no difference between an intoxicated man and one full of his own opinion, and one is no more capable of reasoning than the other.----St. Francis de Sales

    Offline An even Seven

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #24 on: October 16, 2017, 01:15:23 PM »
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  • Does your ball earth have pillars, foundations and corners? Does a footstool look like a ball? Can you see a tall tree or all the nations of the earth from the opposite side of a ball?

    AES: Is your interpretation of these passages infallible? Have they been declared to mean that the Earth actually looks like this?

    Sure there is. The firmament can never be below you.

    AES: Sure it can.

    Error is never appropriate. The awesomeness of the creator is only part of what is taught. The fact that Heaven and Hell are actual places that are very near to us is also taught. Also, by rejecting one truth as "figurative", you open the door to reject more truth as "figurative", and eventually you end up with the NASA fabrication.

    AES: While these passages may not be figurative in the sense that they are not actually true, you assign a strict interpretation of them that may not be the sense that was intended by the Author. Perhaps these passages are meant to convey a certain message to the inspired writer and not meant to actually mean literal footstools, corners, etc... Pride would be the only reason not to admit this.
    There is no difference between an intoxicated man and one full of his own opinion, and one is no more capable of reasoning than the other.----St. Francis de Sales

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #25 on: October 16, 2017, 01:15:51 PM »
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  • First, way to alienate groups of people that you assumedly would want to convert to your FE religion.

    Second, You've already been exposed. The only explicit condemnation came from Lacantius. Anyone can look at your quotes. I have provided quotes from the Fathers that considered the Earth a sphere as well as quotes maintaining that this is absolutely not important for out salvation. You're only fooling yourself.

    I gave the links. People can see that saying that "Lactentius was the only explicit one" is a lie for themselves. You will only fool the truly lazy who don't want to read. Honest investigators wont be fooled.

    You have provided quotes to support a sphere, I don't and never denied that. But they are a minority opinion. I'm surprised you didn't pull out the Bede the Venerable one. That is really explicit for the globe. There, I'm helping you in your delusion...

    As for converting people, I'm only interested in  people who are interested in the truth. All others, can go their merry way...
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017


    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #26 on: October 16, 2017, 01:19:15 PM »
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  • Great Quote and it will no doubt be utterly incapable of penetrating flatEarthist's minds. Here are some other very pertinent quotes about the interpreting of Scripture from the Fathers.
    To interpret Scripture literally means to interpret it in the way the Author intended it. Not to understand every word of the translation at its base meaning.
    Even Steven shows up with his usual "it doesn't matter what the Bible says about the earth" schtick.
    .
    .
    Dizzy, why haven't you commented on your comrade Even Steven's skills at shuckin' & jivin'?

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #27 on: October 16, 2017, 01:22:46 PM »
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  • Even Steven shows up with his usual "it doesn't matter what the Bible says about the earth" schtick.
    .
    .
    Dizzy, why haven't you commented on your comrade Even Steven's skills at shuckin' & jivin'?
    Yep, you're still an idiot..
    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline An even Seven

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #28 on: October 16, 2017, 01:23:31 PM »
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  • I gave the links. People can see that saying that "Lactentius was the only explicit one" is a lie for themselves. You will only fool the truly lazy who don't want to read. Honest investigators wont be fooled.

    AES: Which other explicitly condemns globe earth then?

    You have provided quotes to support a sphere, I don't and never denied that. But they are a minority opinion. I'm surprised you didn't pull out the Bede the Venerable one. That is really explicit for the globe. There, I'm helping you in your delusion...

    AES: What's more important to me is the fact that people see how ridiculous the claim is that FE is explicitly in Scripture and that the Fathers taught it as an article of faith. The Fathers explicitly warn against trying to use Scripture to support this very issue among other issues. The reason is because FE etc... is not part of the Faith and if they are proven wrong it would be a Scandal to those we're trying to convert.

    As for converting people, I'm only interested in  people who are interested in the truth. All others, can go their merry way...

    AES: Wow. That quite an assertion. Of course with the implication that "sedes and feeneyites" are not interested in Truth. Very Bold.
    There is no difference between an intoxicated man and one full of his own opinion, and one is no more capable of reasoning than the other.----St. Francis de Sales

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: God's Flat Earth in Scripture
    « Reply #29 on: October 16, 2017, 01:24:19 PM »
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  • Yep, you're still an idiot..

    I think I understood what dizzy said!

    Wow that was the first coherent post I have seen from him in a while!
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

     

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