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Author Topic: Globe Earthers Worship 666  (Read 20606 times)

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Offline Meg

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Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
« Reply #90 on: January 21, 2018, 01:07:51 PM »
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  • Jaynek pontificates Scripture silent as to shape while simultaneously pontificating church teaches earth is a globe.
    Which is it?
    It can't be both.

    Good question. Which is it?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #91 on: January 21, 2018, 01:25:20 PM »
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  • In fact, Sainted Fathers of the Church say explicitly that Scripture doesn't say anything about shapes.She is just merely expressing a reasonable Catholic opinion of the Subject. By the way, you are doing exactly what you are accusing her of doing. Project much? There is no Church teaching that says the Earth is flat, yet you and your cronies have taken it upon yourselves to condemn all those that haven't come to your personal conclusions.
    I am not sure what is so difficult about the concept that Scripture is silent on the question of the shape of the earth.  These people seem to think that telling them that Scripture does not teach that the earth is flat is equivalent to claiming that Scripture says the earth is a globe.  

    Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and similar questions. They don't understand when St. Basil says it or when St. Augustine says it or when Pope Leo XIII and subsequent popes teach it.  When a teaching persists from the Fathers throughout the history of the Church, repeated in magisterial teachings, this should be considered a teaching of the Church.  They ignore what the Church has really taught and claim that flat earth is a Church teaching based on their personal interpretation of Scripture.

    If the Church teaches that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and one claims that Scripture teaches a specific shape of the earth, one is going against Church teaching.  Claiming that Scripture teaches the earth is flat is placing one's personal interpretation of Scripture over Church teaching.  It is not a Catholic position.  It is a serious error, comparable to the errors of many heretics.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #92 on: January 21, 2018, 01:36:01 PM »
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  • I am not sure what is so difficult about the concept that Scripture is silent on the question of the shape of the earth.  These people seem to think that telling them that Scripture does not teach that the earth is flat is equivalent to claiming that Scripture says the earth is a globe.  

    Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and similar questions. They don't understand when St. Basil says it or when St. Augustine says it or when Pope Leo XIII and subsequent popes teach it.  When a teaching persists from the Fathers throughout the history of the Church, repeated in magisterial teachings, this should be considered a teaching of the Church.  They ignore what the Church has really taught and claim that flat earth is a Church teaching based on their personal interpretation of Scripture.

    If the Church teaches that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and one claims that Scripture teaches a specific shape of the earth, one is going against Church teaching.  Claiming that Scripture teaches the earth is flat is placing one's personal interpretation of Scripture over Church teaching.  It is not a Catholic position.  It is a serious error, comparable to the errors of many heretics.
    YOU claimed the church accepted and taught the Ptolemaic globe model in "all its universities".
    How is that silent as to shape?
     You are undone by your own contradiction.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #93 on: January 21, 2018, 01:56:24 PM »
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  • YOU claimed the church accepted and taught the Ptolemaic globe model in "all its universities".
    How is that silent as to shape?
     You are undone by your own contradiction.
    I have said that Catholics accepted and taught the Ptolemaic globe model in Catholic (Church sponsored) universities. I have also said that the Church teaches that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth.

    There is no contradiction between these statements.  I never said that the Church teaches that people may not express opinions on the shape of the earth.  The Church does not object to people pursuing it as a question of science as Ptolemy did.  This is not the same as  claiming that Scripture teaches the earth is flat or a globe or any particular shape.  The Church teaching refers to the nature of Scripture and is not affected by science regarding the shape of the earth.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #94 on: January 21, 2018, 02:06:28 PM »
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  • When a Catholic has a degree in theology from a Novus Ordo university as Jayne does, they sometimes feel qualified to lord it over others, and tell them exactly what they are supposed to believe or not believe.

    It's similar to how the sedewhatevers think.
    I know very well how worthless my Novus Ordo degree is and have said so repeatedly.  This is a personal attack to discredit me.

    You have never objected to the many posts here that say Catholics are supposed to believe in a flat earth.  As I recall, you have said as much yourself.  This is your typical double standard.

    You throw in completely irrelevant digs at sedvacantists and yet you complain about other people going off topic.  

    Your behaviour makes any position you hold look bad. 


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #95 on: January 21, 2018, 03:13:57 PM »
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  • You degree has colored you with modernism, which makes any position you hold look bad.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #96 on: January 21, 2018, 03:40:18 PM »
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  • You degree has colored you with modernism, which makes any position you hold look bad.

    True. And like the modernists, she contradicts herself, and then denies it. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #97 on: January 21, 2018, 04:06:01 PM »
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  • True. And like the modernists, she contradicts herself, and then denies it.
    There are no contractions in what I actually say.  You misrepresent my position to make it appear as if I have contradicted myself.  I have come to expect this sort of intellectual dishonesty from you.

    I challenge you to show a contradiction using exact quotes of my words.


    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #98 on: January 21, 2018, 04:34:49 PM »
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  • There are no contractions in what I actually say.  You misrepresent my position to make it appear as if I have contradicted myself.  I have come to expect this sort of intellectual dishonesty from you.

    I challenge you to show a contradiction using exact quotes of my words.
    :laugh1:

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #99 on: January 21, 2018, 05:34:46 PM »
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  • Well, now I think its fascinating that someone would post something like this because they have otherwise dismissed such statements that weren't "infallible".  The poster in  particular has been quite vociferous against accepting any quotes that serve the flat earth at all BECAUSE they aren't infallible.  In fact, quotes that reveal very specific teachings of the tabernacle for instance, are totally disregarded because a pope didn't say them.

    Take for instance Methodius' statement against the pagans: “Resuming then, let us first lay bare, in speaking of those things according to our power, the imposture of those who boast as though they alone had comprehended from what forms the heaven is arranged, in accordance with the hypothesis of the Chaldeans and Egyptians. For *they* say that the circuмference of the world is likened to the turnings of a well‐rounded globe, the earth having a central point. For its outline being spherical, it is necessary, they say, since there are the same distances of the parts, that the earth should be the center of the universe, around which as being older, the heaven is whirling." 

    Or Cosmas' quotes against the pagans: “false and heathen doctrine of a spherical earth”.  

    Or even the quote from Severian of Gabala: "He made the upper heavens about which David sang: "The heaven of the heavens is the Lord's."6 This heaven forms in a certain way the upper stage of the firmament. As in any two-story house, there is an intermediate stage; well in this building which is the world, the Creator has prepared the sky as an intermediate level, and he has put it over the waters; from where this passage of David: "It is you who covered with water its upper part.“

    So what's the big idea, huh?  Deny, dismiss, berate, ignore, because certain quotes don't serve your purpose? Then complain there are no good quotes that show Catholics defended a geocentric flat earth? But worse, place some random quote up that MIGHT server your sentiments and take the discussion hopefully in another direction.  This tactic is common among those who say such things as, "Well, we don't know the shape of the earth because God didn't tell us."  And "Scripture doesn't reveal the shape of the earth and no Catholic says it does."  But then they post something as if it had all the weight in the world to undermine the quotes they don't like. 

    About it there can be no doubt.  Several people on the thread do not want to discuss with the intention of learning or gleaning information, but hearing anything they are permanently fixed against, they throw shade at anyone providing information that sheds light on the subject.  Not exactly conducive to seeking the truth, but rather, a most curious and vindictive brick wall has been constructed to keep information from entering the discussion.     


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #100 on: January 21, 2018, 05:44:53 PM »
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  • Well, now I think its fascinating that someone would post something like this because they have otherwise dismissed such statements that weren't "infallible".  The poster in  particular has been quite vociferous against accepting any quotes that serve the flat earth at all BECAUSE they aren't infallible.  In fact, quotes that reveal very specific teachings of the tabernacle for instance, are totally disregarded because a pope didn't say them.

    Take for instance Methodius' statement against the pagans: “Resuming then, let us first lay bare, in speaking of those things according to our power, the imposture of those who boast as though they alone had comprehended from what forms the heaven is arranged, in accordance with the hypothesis of the Chaldeans and Egyptians. For *they* say that the circuмference of the world is likened to the turnings of a well‐rounded globe, the earth having a central point. For its outline being spherical, it is necessary, they say, since there are the same distances of the parts, that the earth should be the center of the universe, around which as being older, the heaven is whirling."  

    Or Cosmas' quotes against the pagans: “false and heathen doctrine of a spherical earth”.  

    Or even the quote from Severian of Gabala: "He made the upper heavens about which David sang: "The heaven of the heavens is the Lord's."6 This heaven forms in a certain way the upper stage of the firmament. As in any two-story house, there is an intermediate stage; well in this building which is the world, the Creator has prepared the sky as an intermediate level, and he has put it over the waters; from where this passage of David: "It is you who covered with water its upper part.“

    So what's the big idea, huh?  Deny, dismiss, berate, ignore, because certain quotes don't serve your purpose? Then complain there are no good quotes that show Catholics defended a geocentric flat earth? But worse, place some random quote up that MIGHT server your sentiments and take the discussion hopefully in another direction.  This tactic is common among those who say such things as, "Well, we don't know the shape of the earth because God didn't tell us."  And "Scripture doesn't reveal the shape of the earth and no Catholic says it does."  But then they post something as if it had all the weight in the world to undermine the quotes they don't like.  

    About it there can be no doubt.  Several people on the thread do not want to discuss with the intention of learning or gleaning information, but hearing anything they are permanently fixed against, they throw shade at anyone providing information that sheds light on the subject.  Not exactly conducive to seeking the truth, but rather, a most curious and vindictive brick wall has been constructed to keep information from entering the discussion.    
    The above quote has been replaced in its proper thread...


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #101 on: January 21, 2018, 05:44:58 PM »
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  • Ladislaus: ask yourself how did they arrive at C = 584, 000, 000 miles for earth around sun?
    Because they know R = 93, 000, 000 miles from earth to sun.
    C= 2PiR
    C=2x3.14x93, 000, 000
    C=584, 040, 000 miles

    Do the math!

    Ba'al worship: earth is moving 66, 666mph
    OR
    Bible: Earth does not move

    CHOOSE WISELY

    No, dummy, when they say 584 million miles, they're obviously rounding.  So it's not 584,000,001 miles?

    I swear, if I hear one more idiotic and insane "Ba'al worship" comment from you morons, I'm done giving you even the slightest benefit of the doubt.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #102 on: January 21, 2018, 05:48:30 PM »
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  • So if I look at a bowling ball and conclude that it is round, I guess that must mean that I secretly worship Ba'al.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #103 on: January 21, 2018, 05:59:26 PM »
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  • So if I look at a bowling ball and conclude that it is round, I guess that must mean that I secretly worship Ba'al.
    While it may be a stretch to say that globalists all worship Ba'al, it is not a stretch to say that Ba'al's religion of false scientism, specifically heliocentric globalism is most certainly a Satanic religion to which much of the world now (at least in part) belongs.  People are often ushered into false worship under false pretenses, but that doesn't mean they haven't joined in disposition a trajectory that embodies an evil set of principles.  This includes a belief in the Big Bang, Godless origins, and evolution, notions once considered quite dangerous to the Catholic mind, but now are presented as the logical approach to science and the cosmos.       

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Globe Earthers Worship 666
    « Reply #104 on: January 21, 2018, 06:03:21 PM »
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  • So what's the big idea, huh?  Deny, dismiss, berate, ignore, because certain quotes don't serve your purpose? Then complain there are no good quotes that show Catholics defended a geocentric flat earth? But worse, place some random quote up that MIGHT server your sentiments and take the discussion hopefully in another direction.  This tactic is common among those who say such things as, "Well, we don't know the shape of the earth because God didn't tell us."  And "Scripture doesn't reveal the shape of the earth and no Catholic says it does."  But then they post something as if it had all the weight in the world to undermine the quotes they don't like.  

    About it there can be no doubt.  Several people on the thread do not want to discuss with the intention of learning or gleaning information, but hearing anything they are permanently fixed against, they throw shade at anyone providing information that sheds light on the subject.  Not exactly conducive to seeking the truth, but rather, a most curious and vindictive brick wall has been constructed to keep information from entering the discussion.    
    Even one quote from a Church Father who believes in globe earth does completely undermine your quotes of those who believe in flat earth.  Because, when the Fathers are not unanimous, they are expressing their personal opinions and the words have no authority.  It disproves your claim that your personal interpretation of Scripture must be right because the Fathers agree with it.  It shows you have no basis to say that your view was ever Church teaching.

    I have seen no sign that the flat-earthers here have any worthwhile information or know anything about truth.  You are quite right that I do not seek those things from you.  I post here to make it clear that most traditional Catholics disagree with flat-earthers and to provide genuine information about Church teaching in case anyone is honestly seeking it.  You do not have information; you have wrong opinions.