Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: Truth is Eternal on January 19, 2018, 11:35:00 PM
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moderated
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Quick Google Search reveals --
speed of earth's orbit around the sun = 67,000 MPH
curvature across one mile = .665 feet
degree of earth's tilt varies between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees, currently at 23.5 degrees
So just a bunch of bull. Not to mention that "feet" and "miles" in the first two measurements are arbitrary units of measure and not some absolute ... when measured in kilometers, which most scientists use, it's not even close.
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So now people who believe in a globe earth are Satanists.
Could the rest of you flat earth advocates disavow this guy? He makes you all look bad and completely discredits the cause. For all I know, he's a paid shill to make you look bad.
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He's not the only one Lad. Although his posts often seem the most "trollish", the others do a pretty good job of discrediting their cause. Anybody on here trying to legitimately look into the FE theory, will easily be turned off just by looking at any of the threads where the FE posters are challenged on their beliefs.
Yeah, I'm trying to investigate this issue objectively and without emotion, but stuff like this really turns me off. I can brush it aside and keep looking at the evidence, but many can't and will just dismiss it based on posts like this. Do they even realize this? If you want to convince other people, try not to turn them off right out of the gate and make yourselves look like a bunch of kooks. Don't exaggerate your position, such as, from another thread, "no Catholic has ever taught globe earth" or "there's unanimous consensus among the Church Fathers" etc.
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Yeah, I'm trying to investigate this issue objectively and without emotion, but stuff like this really turns me off. I can brush it aside and keep looking at the evidence, but many can't and will just dismiss it based on posts like this. Do they even realize this? If you want to convince other people, try not to turn them off right out of the gate and make yourselves look like a bunch of kooks. Don't exaggerate your position, such as, from another thread, "no Catholic has ever taught globe earth" or "there's unanimous consensus among the Church Fathers" etc.
No one said "No Catholic has ever taught globe earth". What is being said is: "No FATHERS taught the globe earth". Big difference. Now, if this is an error, show what you have because any of us is subject to correction. But if its not, it deserves not to be trifled. Further, being there are no Fathers who teach globe earth, and the Fathers who explain Genesis and Scripture only teach flat geocentric earth, that's the definition of unanimous.
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So now people who believe in a globe earth are Satanists.
Could the rest of you flat earth advocates disavow this guy? He makes you all look bad and completely discredits the cause. For all I know, he's a paid shill to make you look bad.
I don't think that's what TiE has concluded. That the globe earth has been propagated by bad elements in the last few hundred years is what I take from that. Most people who believe in a globe earth aren't aware of the modern push for the earth being a globe. NASA, for example, does have freemasonic affiliations. We've seen photos posted on these FE threads which show this.
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Nope.
Sir. St. Augustine was a flat earther. He is rebuking the globe here. Its so funny to me that globers see the word globe and think it means someone is proving earth is a globe, when in fact, they are using it against the pagans.
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Sir. St. Augustine was a flat earther. He is rebuking the globe here. Its so funny to me that globers see the word globe and think it means someone is proving earth is a globe, when in fact, they are using it against the pagans.
So true. The globers don't always look to see what context the term is being used in.
You've been studying this for a long time, happenby. You already know this stuff, and the newcomers to the debate think they have it all figured out - but they obviously do not.
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1 Kings (1Samuel 2: 8 Douay Rheims)
"He raiseth up the needy from the dust, and lifteth up the poor from the dunghill: that He may sit with princes, and hold the throne of glory. For the poles of the earth are the Lord's, and upon them he hath set the world."
The flats imagine these as brick and mortar pillars. :pray:
I can only think of 2 reasons why the flats are here, either they are instruments of the creation of the One World Religion or they are shills, not Catholics to cause division among True Believers.
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1 Kings (1Samuel 2: 8 Douay Rheims)
"He raiseth up the needy from the dust, and lifteth up the poor from the dunghill: that he may sit with princes, and hold the throne of glory. For the poles of the earth are the Lord's, and upon them he hath set the world."
The flats imagine these as brick and mortar pillars. :pray:
I can only think of 2 reasons why the flats are here, either they are instruments of the creation of the One World Religion or they are shills, not Catholics to cause division among True Believers.
Now this is exactly what I'm talking about. People refuse to study before rattling on about nothing. Scriptural translations reveal what the intent of the passage is saying because the word for "poles" is more clearly understood when compared to the intent of the writer. We know that the word for "poles" also translates to "pillars" or to "foundations". The fixed earth, a foundational arch-type like the Church Herself, belongs to God. This is a passage that shows the earth doesn't move. Take better care next time.
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Nope.
Has the revolution of the globe(or world), to which we are accustomed, departing from the rate of its primal motion, begun either to move too slowly, or to be hurried onward in headlong rotation?”
If anything, he is making fun of the movement of earth. But then, you guys hang stuff out for consumption without reference or context, and pretend you've proven something. This quote does not prove your point, is somewhat unclear, actually, but if anything, proves this guy didn't buy the movement of earth.
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Globe earthers have let themselves be desensitized by 666.
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Wait, no apology to reader for your inaccuracies or straw-man arguments? I should have known.
Here is the entire part to this. Anybody can look this up. He is definitely not making fun of the MOVEMENT OF THE EARTH.
Well, the whole quote, at last. Definitely changes things. It still isn't a teaching about spherical moving earth, (which would be an error on his part) but shows by comparison the various contradictory nature of pagan arguments. Rest assured, I won't misread again, especially when provided the entire quote. I wonder if you can say the same. Or at least post relevant material.
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Now this is exactly what I'm talking about. People refuse to study before rattling on about nothing. Scriptural translations reveal what the intent of the passage is saying because the word for "poles" is more clearly understood when compared to the intent of the writer. We know that the word for "poles" also translates to "pillars" or to "foundations". The fixed earth, a foundational arch-type like the Church Herself, belongs to God. This is a passage that shows the earth doesn't move. Take better care next time.
So you know more about translation than the scholars who translated the Douay-Rheims (with the official approval of the Church.) How much Hebrew, Greek, and Latin do you know?
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So you know more about translation than the scholars who translated the Douay-Rheims (with the official approval of the Church.) How much Hebrew, Greek, and Latin do you know?
I know enough to know that the Holy Bible Describes the earth as flat with a half dome firmament above. You can't show any evidence to prove the horizontal horizon is not horizontal.
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God created the flat earth. Do gobe earthers see nothing wrong with their Baal worship, Paganistic, Freemasonic globe earth lies as long as we do not call it Satanism?
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Where? Quote the part of Holy Scriptures that says the Earth is flat.
We have already shown you the scriptures. Do you want me to link you to some of the past threads?
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So you know more about translation than the scholars who translated the Douay-Rheims (with the official approval of the Church.) How much Hebrew, Greek, and Latin do you know?
It is a simple matter that translations can work together to make the passage clearer. It is also true that translations can muddy things. Obviously, knowing that poles, pillars and foundations are true translations of the original word used, we can come to the conclusion that the earth is not moving. On the other hand, we have not addressed the fact that you were trying to trip me up, pretending that Scripture was showing us the North and South Poles, something that might testify that earth is globe. Otherwise, why post it? Let's be clear. Your little ruse failed and Scripture again shows that there is no reason to misunderstand, unless one is being dishonest.
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I think I know the problem now. You think that people that believe in a Globe Earth worship it because you worship the flat Earth. This is the only thing that makes sense. If you believed in flat Earth but did NOT worship it, why would you jump to the conclusion that people who believe the Earth is a globe would worship the globe Earth.
Maybe I'm just being silly trying to make sense of your arguments.
If globe earthers truly hated Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, they wouldn't bath in it.
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Now this is exactly what I'm talking about. People refuse to study before rattling on about nothing. Scriptural translations reveal what the intent of the passage is saying because the word for "poles" is more clearly understood when compared to the intent of the writer. We know that the word for "poles" also translates to "pillars" or to "foundations". The fixed earth, a foundational arch-type like the Church Herself, belongs to God. This is a passage that shows the earth doesn't move. Take better care next time.
What happened to your literal interpretation, you endorse?
Oh I get it, it doesn't fit the FLAT agenda here.
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I think I know the problem now. You think that people that believe in a Globe Earth worship it because you worship the flat Earth. This is the only thing that makes sense. If you believed in flat Earth but did NOT worship it, why would you jump to the conclusion that people who believe the Earth is a globe would worship the globe Earth.
Maybe I'm just being silly trying to make sense of your arguments.
Look, he's trying to help you. Scripture says that the greater part of humanity will fall into lies that lead to the destruction of the elect, if that were possible. The saints say this means that most will fall for the false teaching, but the elect will recover. A Satanic heliocentric religion has taken hold of the entire world and the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr is being ushered in on its premises. Evolutionary science has led people off into all manner of apostasy. Missing the point and flipping this to make the truth sound demonic is untoward and pretty rude. We are truly only trying to help.
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Look, he's trying to help you. Scripture says that the greater part of humanity will fall into lies that lead to the destruction of the elect, if that were possible. The saints say this means that most will fall for the false teaching, but the elect will recover. A Satanic heliocentric religion has taken hold of the entire world and the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr is being ushered in on its premises. Evolutionary science has led people off into all manner of apostasy. Missing the point and flipping this to make the truth sound demonic is untoward and pretty rude. We are truly only trying to help.
Yes, like misery loves company.
We have proved the earth is not flat, and your pride does not allow you to admit you are wrong.
Misery loves company.
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On the other hand, we have not addressed the fact that you were trying to trip me up, pretending that Scripture was showing us the North and South Poles, something that might testify that earth is globe. Otherwise, why post it? Let's be clear. Your little ruse failed and Scripture again shows that there is no reason to misunderstand, unless one is being dishonest.
Since I am not the one who posted that Scripture passage, it is not a fact that I was trying to trip you up with it.
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What happened to your literal interpretation, you endorse?
Oh I get it, it doesn't fit the FLAT agenda here.
You are kidding right? If a pole, a pillar and a foundation doesn't paint a literal or clear picture for you, you really should stop trying. Twisting all this in order to continue to berate actually makes you look bad.
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Yes, like misery loves company.
We have proved the earth is not flat, and your pride does not allow you to admit you are wrong.
Misery loves company.
The horizontal horizon is Infallible.
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Since I am not the one who posted that Scripture passage, it is not a fact that I was trying to trip you up with it.
Whatever. You used it.
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So you do worship the flat-Earth? WOW!
Please. That's not what was said. Get over yourself.
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You are kidding right? If a pole, a pillar and a foundation doesn't paint a literal or clear picture for you, you really should stop trying. Twisting all this in order to continue to berate actually makes you look bad.
So then why do you hate or find every excuse you can when you see the word "pole".
Let hear your outcry over this pope's use of the word. Not the best pope but still a pope according to the Church since he never erred in his teachings. Just his behavior.
Inter Caetera (Among Other Things)
Division of the undiscovered world between Spain and Portugal
Pope Alexander VI - 1493
Also consider this quote in Pope Alexander V when he refers to the North and South Pole;
"And, in order that you may enter upon so great an undertaking with greater readiness and heartiness endowed with the benefit of our apostolic favor, we, of our own accord, not at your instance nor the request of anyone else in your regard, but of our own sole largess and certain knowledge and out of the fullness of our apostolic power, by the authority of Almighty God conferred upon us in blessed Peter and of the vicarship of Jesus Christ, which we hold on earth, do by tenor of these presents, should any of said islands have been found by your envoys and captains, give, grant, and assign to you and your heirs and successors, kings of Castile and Leon, forever, together with all their dominions, cities, camps, places, and villages, and all rights, jurisdictions, and appurtenances, all islands and mainlands found and to be found, discovered and to be discovered towards the west and south, by drawing and establishing a line from the Arctic pole, namely the north, to the Antarctic pole, namely the south, no matter whether the said mainlands and islands are found and to be found in the direction of India or towards any other quarter, the said line to be distant one hundred leagues towards the west and south from any of the islands commonly known as the Azores and Cape Verde."
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So then why do you hate or find every excuse you can when you see the word "pole".
Let hear your outcry over this pope's use of the word. Not the best pope but still a pope according to the Church since he never erred in his teachings. Just his behavior.
Ma'am. He's talking about a specific region delineated from north to south. Even if he believed earth to be globe, he isn't teaching it. What are you thinking?
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So you do worship the flat-Earth? WOW!
Of course I worship God Who created the flat earth. :fryingpan: even Seven
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If we use your standards, then you cannot say that any of the Church Fathers taught flat Earth then. They were both mentioned in the same manner.
Also, even if Gregory of Nyssa was not teaching globe earth in that passage, just the fact that he personally believed it disproves the frequent claim that all the Fathers believed or taught flat earth. Flat earth is not a unanimous teaching of the Fathers, if even one of them wrote something else.
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What happened to your literal interpretation, you endorse?
Oh I get it, it doesn't fit the FLAT agenda here.
"Do you want to know the dictionary definition of "horizontal?" The horizon doesn't get more literal than "horizontal."
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Ma'am. He's talking about a specific region delineated from north to south. Even if he believed earth to be globe, he isn't teaching it. What are you thinking?
I'm thinking how you must be getting burned out from making excuses to back up your fantasies.
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So then why do you hate or find every excuse you can when you see the word "pole".
Let hear your outcry over this pope's use of the word. Not the best pope but still a pope according to the Church since he never erred in his teachings. Just his behavior.
The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government "space agencies" show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.
The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.
The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.
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"Do you want to know the dictionary definition of "horizontal?" The horizon doesn't get more literal than "horizontal."
Do you want to know what the definition of "firmament" according to the Haydock Bible?
Plalm 71;16
Ver. 16. A firmament on the earth, &c. This may be understood of the Church of Christ, ever firm and visible:
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The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government "space agencies" show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.
The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.
The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.
Does anyone notice that annoying echo on this forum?
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I'm thinking how you must be getting burned out from making excuses to back up your fantasies.
"HORIZONTAL________________________________________" :applause:
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"HORIZONTAL________________________________________" :applause:
Applauding yourself why? Because no one else will, what pride.
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Does anyone notice that annoying echo on this forum?
Only a globe earther is annoyed by the flat earth God created.
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Applauding yourself why? Because no one else will, what pride.
I have compete confidence in the Infallible horizontal horizon. :applause:
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Applauding yourself why? Because no one else will, what pride.
Truth should be celebrated.
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I think it's time we start questioning which "god" you're talking about that created the flat Earth. I know the muslims believe in flat Earth, maybe it's "allah" you worship. Maybe "gaia". One thing is for sure, the Holy Trinity did not reveal what shape the Earth is.
Another missed point. Muddying the water. I have yet to see one glober try to clear the way to truth. Notice that they always only cloud it?
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I think it's time we start questioning which "god" you're talking about that created the flat Earth. I know the muslims believe in flat Earth, maybe it's "allah" you worship. Maybe "gaia". One thing is for sure, the Holy Trinity did not reveal what shape the Earth is.
"HORIZONTAL________________________________________" :applause:
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Another missed point. Muddying the water. I have yet to see one glober try to clear the way to truth. Notice that they always only cloud it?
I don't let them take me off topic very often. IT WORKS. ;D
Globe earthers hold their :facepalm: down in shame.
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What point. The "god" he worships created the flat Earth. I am questioning which God that is. You miss the point. Whether the Holy Trinity created a flat Earth or not doesn't matter. He never revealed the shape of what he created. He doesn't require a certain belief in a certain shape. This is not a religious matter until Dogmatic Flatearthists start claiming it's a matter of salvation and apocalyptic importance.
Look at his last post. Look at the name of this thread. Is this someone you really want to be defending?
It is much better to defend the flat earth than 666 the globe earthers do.
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What point. The "god" he worships created the flat Earth. I am questioning which God that is. You miss the point. Whether the Holy Trinity created a flat Earth or not doesn't matter. He never revealed the shape of what he created. He doesn't require a certain belief in a certain shape. This is not a religious matter until Dogmatic Flatearthists start claiming it's a matter of salvation and apocalyptic importance.
Look at his last post. Look at the name of this thread. Is this someone you really want to be defending?
God never revealed the shape of what he created? Uh, wrong. Its not that God requires a certain belief in a certain shape, but that God is assisting people so they don't worship a scientism that denies the True God. Heliocentrism is demon worship. For that reason, this is a religious matter.
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God never revealed the shape of what he created? Uh, wrong. Its not that God requires a certain belief in a certain shape, but that God is assisting people so they don't worship a scientism that denies the True God. Heliocentrism is demon worship. For that reason, this is a religious matter.
I am not going through all the arguments yet again, but you have been shown statements from Fathers, Doctors and popes saying that God does not use Scripture to reveal information about the physical world that does not pertain to salvation.
The Church does not teach that heliocentrism is demon worship or that this is a religious matter any longer. The condemnation of heliocentrism was lifted in 1820. And it never had anything to do with flat earth. At the time of Galileo, geocentrists and heliocentrists agreed that the earth is a globe.
Flat earth is not a religious matter other than in your mistaken imagination.
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God never revealed the shape of what he created? Uh, wrong. Its not that God requires a certain belief in a certain shape, but that God is assisting people so they don't worship a scientism that denies the True God. Heliocentrism is demon worship. For that reason, this is a religious matter.
Globe earthers can't serve God and Mammmon; they sure do like to try.
Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=6&l=24-24&q=1#x)
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It is much better to defend the flat earth than 666 the globe earthers do.
Shame shame double shame... much to answer for
Globe (https://tinyurl.com/ya9r5ml9)
or
This (https://tinyurl.com/y78mh8oh)
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I don't let them take me off topic very often. IT WORKS. ;D
Globe earthers hold their :facepalm: down in shame.
They are very good at trying to go off topic. And they also want to defend the indefensible. They won't ever concede anything or admit that they can be wrong.
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(https://i.imgur.com/0W3tw0A.jpg)
Devil can't hide his cloven hooves.
The helio ba'al worship is revealed in its math.
Those numbers are the number of a MAN, and it isn't the Man made God.
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You and your ilk should know!
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Quick Google Search reveals --
speed of earth's orbit around the sun = 67,000 MPH
curvature across one mile = .665 feet
degree of earth's tilt varies between 22.1 and 24.5 degrees, currently at 23.5 degrees
So just a bunch of bull. Not to mention that "feet" and "miles" in the first two measurements are arbitrary units of measure and not some absolute ... when measured in kilometers, which most scientists use, it's not even close.
So he is correct.
In fact, precisely correct.
Google says earth travels 584 miilon miles per year.
584, 000, 000 ÷ 365 days = 1, 600, 000 miles per day.
1, 600, 000 miles ÷ 24 hours = 66, 666.666 MPH
Do the math!
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Ladislaus: ask yourself how did they arrive at C = 584, 000, 000 miles for earth around sun?
Because they know R = 93, 000, 000 miles from earth to sun.
C= 2PiR
C=2x3.14x93, 000, 000
C=584, 040, 000 miles
Do the math!
Ba'al worship: earth is moving 66, 666mph
OR
Bible: Earth does not move
CHOOSE WISELY
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Ladislaus: ask yourself how did they arrive at C = 584, 000, 000 miles for earth around sun?
Because they know R = 93, 000, 000 miles from earth to sun.
C= 2PiR
C=2x3.14x93, 000, 000
C=584, 040, 000 miles
Do the math!
Ba'al worship: earth is moving 66, 666mph
OR
Bible: Earth does not move
CHOOSE WISELY
Bingo
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Wait, no apology to reader for your inaccuracies or straw-man arguments? I should have known.
Here is the entire part to this. Anybody can look this up. He is definitely not making fun of the MOVEMENT OF THE EARTH.
Per Wiki:
Arbonius
Christian apologist known for his defense of Christianity, more yhan being perfectly orthodox in his tenets.
Nice.
Also, if you read the page prior to your quote, which you did not link, he says that Creation is not fallen.
Good job, a "doctor" who believes in Greek Pythagorean theory and believes the Greek gods are real beings.
Again, nice work.
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Per Wiki:
Arbonius was a recent convert who had no knowledge of the Old Testament.
He was the originator of Pascal's Wager: "if one doubts religion it is better to commit to believe it, because of the rewards of doing so and the risks of not doing so."
I'd wager that if Arbonius had read Genesis, he would have dropped his Greek ba'al earth and heliocentric belief.
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Per Wiki:
Arbonius
Christian apologist known for his defense of Christianity, more yhan being perfectly orthodox in his tenets.
Nice.
Also, if you read the page prior to your quote, which you did not link, he says that Creation is not fallen.
Good job, a "doctor" who believes in Greek Pythagorean theory and believes the Greek gods are real beings.
Again, nice work.
*This* Excellent work, sir.
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The One World Religion that Myrna speaks of is globalism.
The globalists believe there is no God and that one government will bring peace.
The lynchpin of the globalists is heliocentrism. Why? Because they believe we must leave this earth in order to save ourselves.
Save humanity by moving to Mars. You cannot pursue that endeavor unless earth is a spinning ball in endless space, going around the sun.
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The One World Religion that Myrna speaks of is globalism.
The globalists believe there is no God and that one government will bring peace.
The lynchpin of the globalists is heliocentrism. Why? Because they believe we must leave this earth in order to save ourselves.
Save humanity by moving to Mars. You cannot pursue that endeavor unless earth is a spinning ball in endless space, going around the sun.
Tell that to the Virgin of the Globe, click below.
Truly Catholic (https://tinyurl.com/y87ubsyz)
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I am not going through all the arguments yet again, but you have been shown statements from Fathers, Doctors and popes saying that God does not use Scripture to reveal information about the physical world that does not pertain to salvation.
The Church does not teach that heliocentrism is demon worship or that this is a religious matter any longer. The condemnation of heliocentrism was lifted in 1820. And it never had anything to do with flat earth. At the time of Galileo, geocentrists and heliocentrists agreed that the earth is a globe.
Flat earth is not a religious matter other than in your mistaken imagination.
Are people on this forum seriously saying the earth is flat? What's up with that.
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Are people on this forum seriously saying the earth is flat? What's up with that.
I know! At first I thought it was a joke also, but the saddest is this Catholic forum gives them a billboard to call us, those who disagree 666.
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I know! At first I thought it was a joke also, but the saddest is this Catholic forum gives them a billboard to call us, those who disagree 666.
Learn what your affiliations amount to so that you don't find yourself as Scripture describes "even the elect, if it were possible". Literally working for Satan. Only the proud would refuse to consider their position.
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Learn what your affiliations amount to so that you don't find yourself as Scripture describes "even the elect, if it were possible". Literally working for Satan. Only the proud would refuse to consider their position.
That is called "delusions of grandeur" when someone thinks they possess some world changing truth that could change life of the whole human race. Thats what you get when you spend too much time in an insular group, amongst highly ideological peers, excluding the worth of all people and ideas outside your safe space, and spend your time oogling obscure fantasies and scandals to fuel the fire of your emotional state of outraged indignation that you thrive upon. You thrive on indignation so now you invent things and scandals and give credence to nonsensical fringe ideas to keep yourself puffed up and angry.
Christ never wanted his followers to be so full of pride and self importance and to thrive on scandal
So what if the world is flat. How does it affect your personal life. You planning on walking on the ocean and afraid of a drop.
:baby:
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That is called "delusions of grandeur" when someone thinks they possess some world changing truth that could change life of the whole human race. Thats what you get when you spend too much time in an insular group, amongst highly ideological peers, excluding the worth of all people and ideas outside your safe space, and spend your time oogling obscure fantasies and scandals to fuel the fire of your emotional state of outraged indignation that you thrive upon. You thrive on indignation so now you invent things and scandals and give credence to nonsensical fringe ideas to keep yourself puffed up and angry.
Christ never wanted his followers to be so full of pride and self importance and to thrive on scandal
So what if the world is flat. How does it affect your personal life. You planning on walking on the ocean and afraid of a drop.
:baby:
The globalist agenda very much affects your personal life. You ought not act so smug but obtain information.
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The globalist agenda very much affects your personal life. You ought not act so smug but obtain information.
Im not acting smug. But it is a philosphical principle
"That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
If you have a revelation to make to humanity, I want to see evidence before you and your friends become fanatics over it.
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Im not acting smug. But it is a philosphical principle
"That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".
If you have a revelation to make to humanity, I want to see evidence before you and your friends become fanatics over it.
Had you been here, you would have seen the evidence. As such, coming in from nowhere, you did not and cannot say.
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You can't dress up a ridiculous theory in the language of Catholic piety and expect people to adopt it, otherwise they are not Catholic. i have plenty of factual statements to make that are not adopted because of my crude mode of expression.
Yes you have some success intoxicating others with this craze, but somewhere down the line the wrapping paper of polite piety which hides falseness wont be enough. People will believe it just because of how you say it. I know of several people who are excellent at writing formal sophisticated style emails and letters, and their ideas are adopted, even through they speak absolute BS in them. That flat earth belief survives because of the religious language its wrapped in. I dont believe it.
The religious language is not enough for me. There are too many religion hijackers and impostors for me to give credence to each and every person who talks the talk but doesnt walk the walk, or even walks backwards
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You can't dress up a ridiculous theory in the language of Catholic piety and expect people to adopt it, otherwise they are not Catholic. i have plenty of factual statements to make that are not adopted because of my crude mode of expression.
Yes you have some success intoxicating others with this craze, but somewhere down the line the wrapping paper of polite piety which hides falseness wont be enough. People will believe it just because of how you say it. I know of several people who are excellent at writing formal sophisticated style emails and letters, and their ideas are adopted, even through they speak absolute BS in them. That flat earth belief survives because of the religious language its wrapped in. I dont believe it.
The religious language is not enough for me. There are too many religion hijackers and impostors for me to give credence to each and every person who talks the talk but doesnt walk the walk, or even walks backwards
You can talk big, but if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk. This isn't religious language, but verifiable quotes from scripture, the Fathers, saints and notable Catholics. Why would you assume I didn't have such? Because you don't know? Yea.
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You can talk big, but if you don't know what you're talking about, don't talk. This isn't religious language, but verifiable quotes from scripture, the Fathers, saints and notable Catholics. Why would you assume I didn't have such? Because you don't know? Yea.
Saying anyone who believes the earth is round worships 666 is using religious language.
There are plenty of people using religious language and garb who push BS.
Your'e one of them. There is no evidence the world is flat.
That was a belief ressurected and put into circulation by the 4chan community for reasons of trolling christians who would proceed to make themselves look ridiculous. Yeah you look ridiculous if you claim the earth is flat.
Why cant you see you got played by the most elite playas on the internet.
But long live kekistan anyway. Kekistan will forever be my home.
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You can't dress up a ridiculous theory in the language of Catholic piety and expect people to adopt it, otherwise they are not Catholic. i have plenty of factual statements to make that are not adopted because of my crude mode of expression.
Yes you have some success intoxicating others with this craze, but somewhere down the line the wrapping paper of polite piety which hides falseness wont be enough.
I don't respect people who approach things with emotion. When you use language like the bolded above, it's obvious that you are not being objective.
So how exactly were you "victimized" by the SSPX? I also don't respect the victim mentality. You haven't specified your gender, but you come across as a woman.
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So he is correct.
In fact, precisely correct.
Google says earth travels 584 miilon miles per year.
584, 000, 000 ÷ 365 days = 1, 600, 000 miles per day.
1, 600, 000 miles ÷ 24 hours = 66, 666.666 MPH
Do the math!
bzzzt. 584 million per year is obviously rounded. Precise number in MPH is 67,000.
You guys are a complete joke if you read significance into numbers like this.
At some point, I had some sympathy for your viewpoint, but you're quickly eroding my good will.
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They are very good at trying to go off topic. And they also want to defend the indefensible. They won't ever concede anything or admit that they can be wrong.
And you guys keep backing this idiotic buffoon instead of distancing yourselves from him.
"They won't ever concede anything or admit that they can be wrong." -- very few people resemble this remark more than you, Meg.
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I don't respect people who approach things with emotion. When you use language like the bolded above, it's obvious that you are not being objective.
So how exactly were you "victimized" by the SSPX? I also don't respect the victim mentality. You haven't specified your gender, but you come across as a woman.
Your biased and hallucinating and ready to strike, therefore this conversation is over.
But your belief is still ridiculous. Not believing it is not a crime. You cannot judge me for not believing it.
Ergo, those who worship globe earth worship 666 is false.
I think the earth is round but I dont worship 666. Therefore that proves you wrong.
But then again "666" is a subjective label you apply to anyone who doubts you.
A cult gone mental, who themselves call other people mental when they should look in the mirror.
hey at least I got treated, can you say the same?
Go before a doctor with your fringe beliefs and see what happens to you.
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bzzzt. 584 million per year is obviously rounded. Precise number in MPH is 67,000.
You guys are a complete joke if you read significance into numbers like this.
At some point, I had some sympathy for your viewpoint, but you're quickly eroding my good will.
Actually, I've seen scientists say that it is exactly 66,600 mph. Not arguing, just saying.
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Actually, I've seen scientists say that it is exactly 66,600 mph. Not arguing, just saying.
Even so, 66,600 is not the same as 666. Obsessing over it and variations of it sounds like being superstitious. Its a number that occurs naturally. Did Matthew delete the 666th post because it was evil? Are you worried about the 666th number in the phone book? To say people worship the globe is an exaggeration, its beyond ridiculous to say people who disagree with you worship 666.
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Even so, 66,600 is not the same as 666. Obsessing over it and variations of it sounds like being superstitious. Its a number that occurs naturally. Did Mathew delete the 666th post because it was evil? Are you worried about the 666th number in the phone book? To say people worship the globe is an exaggeration, its beyond ridiculous to say people who disagree with you worship 666.
No worries, don't bother if you don't want. But don't assume you know if you haven't asked.
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Apologies for making that unchartable comment. I feel bad about it.
Anyhow carry on. :popcorn:
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This isn't religious language, but verifiable quotes from scripture, the Fathers, saints and notable Catholics.
:( Sigh. If I want to go back to a chapel of narcissist misfits who think the earth is flat and speak self contradictory philosophical non sequitars... I must be bloody crazy mateys!
Im gonna go chew on my hand once i finish my frosted wheats downed with bewleys excellent EXCELLENT tea bags.
I have to get my frustration out somehow. Or maybe Ill smoke or something.
Some how the absurdity made my day. I always felt sorry for parishioners but... Sigh.
Dare I put the blindfold back on. Dare you Jamey boy. Dare you?
The paradoxes of my existence. Shudder. Note to self, watch out radioactive man.
.and THATs why ive no faith in society.
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Apologies for making that unchartable comment. I feel bad about it.
Anyhow carry on. :popcorn:
Hang in there. We're praying for y'all. And I mean that.
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bzzzt. 584 million per year is obviously rounded. Precise number in MPH is 67,000.
You guys are a complete joke if you read significance into numbers like this.
At some point, I had some sympathy for your viewpoint, but you're quickly eroding my good will.
No it isn't. You're abusing my good will by accusing me of lying.
Use your own calculator.
The 584M comes from the equation for circuмference, C=2PiR.
R is 93M, and that is de fide under helio model.
This is not rocket science, it's simple math and the math is precisely correct:
Earth moves at rate of 66, 666 mph
OR
Earth does NOT move
Which is it?
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"They won't ever concede anything or admit that they can be wrong." -- very few people resemble this remark more than you, Meg.
When have the globe-earthers ever conceded anything or admitted that they are wrong? Please give a specific example, because I don't recall ever seeing it.
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No it isn't. You're abusing my good will by accusing me of lying.
Use your own calculator.
The 584M comes from the equation for circuмference, C=2PiR.
R is 93M, and that is de fide under helio model.
This is not rocket science, it's simple math and the math is precisely correct:
Earth moves at rate of 66, 666 mph
OR
Earth does NOT move
Which is it?
Look at how foolish you all are. You take these numbers that you have calculated to prove we are wrong, numbers that according to you don't even exist. That alone is a joke! Why not try proving we are 666 by using "something" that at the very least you believe in. Definition of Truth is "What IS."
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It's ARNOBIUS and he is considered a Church Father. One of the guys you think makes this matter infallible.
There does seem to be a serious misunderstanding among them about the authority of Church Fathers. During the time of the Church Fathers dogma had not been defined so many, probably most, of them held a few ideas that were later declared to be wrong. (It was not heresy because there was no pertinacity in holding wrong beliefs after correction.) We could find mistaken doctrinal beliefs among the Fathers who supported flat earth too.
The only time they can be considered infallible is when the Fathers unanimously hold a belief as part of the Faith. They would all have needed to have said something like "Christians must believe the earth is flat" for this to be binding on Catholics. They did not, however, all believe the earth is flat. Some Fathers believed it was a globe. Among those who believed it was flat, few, if any, saw this as part of Christian faith. Therefore, what the Fathers have to say about the shape of the earth is their personal opinions and not part of the deposit of faith.
Pope Leo XIII explained this principle quite clearly in Prudentissimus Deus and I have quoted the passage more than once. Nevertheless, the flat-earthers continue their insistence that their position is Catholic because it was held by the Church Fathers. They are simply wrong about this.
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I don't respect people who approach things with emotion. When you use language like the bolded above, it's obvious that you are not being objective.
As I understand this person's statements in his/her initial post to the forum, he or she struggles with mental illness. I have a relative in that situation and, in my experience, it is necessary to adjust one's expectations somewhat.
Even so, this person has made some intelligent and insightful comments about the flat-earthers. I share your preference for a non-emotional style, but I saw worthwhile elements in the content.
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As I understand this person's statements in his/her initial post to the forum, he or she struggles with mental illness. I have a relative in that situation and, in my experience, it is necessary to adjust one's expectations somewhat.
Even so, this person has made some intelligent and insightful comments about the flat-earthers. I share your preference for a non-emotional style, but I saw worthwhile elements in the content.
No doubt you agree the name calling was the worthwhile element.
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There is only one Church Father that condemns the Globe Earth (Lacantius, Divine Institutes, Bk. III, Ch. 24). He does not however, condemn it from a Scriptural basis.
Of the writings on the subject that I have been able to find, there are as many, if not more, who held the personal belief in the globe/spherical/round Earth than the flat Earth. There are also two or three Fathers who condemn the idea that we should be interpreting Scripture so as to show that it holds definitive proof of the shape of things.
The Dogmatic Flatearthists are hypocrites. They claim the Fathers to be on their side but when Catholics cite the Fathers to prove them wrong, the FEers resort to undermining the credibility of the Fathers. It's quite remarkable.
Up until around the 5th century Christian thinkers are characterized as belonging to either the Alexandrian or Antiochian school of thought, named after the cities in which they were based. They had different perspectives on Scripture and theology. The Church Fathers were associated with these schools.
There is a pattern in views of the shape of the earth that tends to correspond to these schools. Antioch corresponds to belief in flat earth, Alexandria to belief in globe earth. (Lacantius is an exception in that he is against globe earth while being associated with the Alexandrian school.) So it is not surprising that you have been able to find many Fathers who believed in a globe earth.
It is quite clear that the Fathers were writing about their personal opinions when discussing the shape of the earth, other than the ones who were teaching that it should not be made a matter of faith. St. Basil is my favorite of these. I feel like he could be addressing this forum when he writes:
Those who have written about the nature of the universe have discussed at length the shape of the earth. If it be spherical or cylindrical, if it resemble a disc and is equally rounded in all parts, or if it has the forth of a winnowing basket and is hollow in the middle; all these conjectures have been suggested by cosmographers, each one upsetting that of his predecessor. It will not lead me to give less importance to the creation of the universe, that the servant of God, Moses, is silent as to shapes; he has not said that the earth is a hundred and eighty thousand furlongs in circuмference; he has not measured into what extent of air its shadow projects itself whilst the sun revolves around it, nor stated how this shadow, casting itself upon the moon, produces eclipses. He has passed over in silence, as useless, all that is unimportant for us. Shall I then prefer foolish wisdom to the oracles of the Holy Spirit? Shall I not rather exalt Him who, not wishing to fill our minds with these vanities, has regulated all the economy of Scripture in view of the edification and the making perfect of our souls?It is this which those seem to me not to have understood, who, giving themselves up to the distorted meaning of allegory, have undertaken to give a majesty of their own invention to Scripture. It is to believe themselves wiser than the Holy Spirit, and to bring forth their own ideas under a pretext of exegesis. Let us hear Scripture as it has been written.”
Scripture is "silent as to shapes". The shape of the earth is "unimportant to us." Scripture is for "the edification and making perfect of our souls." He could be writing of the flat-earthers on this forum when he speaks of those who "giving themselves up to the distorted meaning of allegory have undertaken to give a majesty of their own invention to Scripture."
If these people really wanted to learn from the Church Fathers, this is what they would pay attention to, rather than searching for proof-verses to support a flat earth. They misuse the Fathers in the same way they misuse Scripture.
This teaching of Basil (unlike flat earth) has been repeated throughout the history of the Church by our Doctors and popes. This is what deserves to be called Church teaching.
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Exactly, and this is what I've been getting at since I started discussing this with these people. I wouldn't even have said a negative word about the flat Earth if they hadn't made it into their own "religion" with it's own "dogmas".
I too would have little problem if they confined themselves to discussing science. I originally ignored this subforum because I assumed that is what they were doing. It was when I noticed they spoke of it as a religious duty of Catholics that I became concerned.
It really speaks to the timeless nature of Christian truth that way back in the 4th century St. Basil was able to describe modern flat-earthers "who, giving themselves up to the distorted meaning of allegory, have undertaken to give a majesty of their own invention to Scripture. It is to believe themselves wiser than the Holy Spirit, and to bring forth their own ideas under a pretext of exegesis."
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Jaynek pontificates Scripture silent as to shape while simultaneously pontificating church teaches earth is a globe.
Which is it?
It can't be both.
She is mired in a contradiction.
She cannot produce a single scripture verse that says earth is a globe, yet she allows for theologian opinions of same.
FE'ers can show Scripture for earth not a globe, and theologians opinions of same, yet she does not allow this.
Jaynek has made herself god and pope snd follows her personal conclusions.
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Thus spaketh Pope Jaynek.
Ex cathedra.
When a Catholic has a degree in theology from a Novus Ordo university as Jayne does, they sometimes feel qualified to lord it over others, and tell them exactly what they are supposed to believe or not believe.
It's similar to how the sedewhatevers think.
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Jaynek pontificates Scripture silent as to shape while simultaneously pontificating church teaches earth is a globe.
Which is it?
It can't be both.
Good question. Which is it?
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In fact, Sainted Fathers of the Church say explicitly that Scripture doesn't say anything about shapes.She is just merely expressing a reasonable Catholic opinion of the Subject. By the way, you are doing exactly what you are accusing her of doing. Project much? There is no Church teaching that says the Earth is flat, yet you and your cronies have taken it upon yourselves to condemn all those that haven't come to your personal conclusions.
I am not sure what is so difficult about the concept that Scripture is silent on the question of the shape of the earth. These people seem to think that telling them that Scripture does not teach that the earth is flat is equivalent to claiming that Scripture says the earth is a globe.
Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and similar questions. They don't understand when St. Basil says it or when St. Augustine says it or when Pope Leo XIII and subsequent popes teach it. When a teaching persists from the Fathers throughout the history of the Church, repeated in magisterial teachings, this should be considered a teaching of the Church. They ignore what the Church has really taught and claim that flat earth is a Church teaching based on their personal interpretation of Scripture.
If the Church teaches that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and one claims that Scripture teaches a specific shape of the earth, one is going against Church teaching. Claiming that Scripture teaches the earth is flat is placing one's personal interpretation of Scripture over Church teaching. It is not a Catholic position. It is a serious error, comparable to the errors of many heretics.
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I am not sure what is so difficult about the concept that Scripture is silent on the question of the shape of the earth. These people seem to think that telling them that Scripture does not teach that the earth is flat is equivalent to claiming that Scripture says the earth is a globe.
Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and similar questions. They don't understand when St. Basil says it or when St. Augustine says it or when Pope Leo XIII and subsequent popes teach it. When a teaching persists from the Fathers throughout the history of the Church, repeated in magisterial teachings, this should be considered a teaching of the Church. They ignore what the Church has really taught and claim that flat earth is a Church teaching based on their personal interpretation of Scripture.
If the Church teaches that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth and one claims that Scripture teaches a specific shape of the earth, one is going against Church teaching. Claiming that Scripture teaches the earth is flat is placing one's personal interpretation of Scripture over Church teaching. It is not a Catholic position. It is a serious error, comparable to the errors of many heretics.
YOU claimed the church accepted and taught the Ptolemaic globe model in "all its universities".
How is that silent as to shape?
You are undone by your own contradiction.
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YOU claimed the church accepted and taught the Ptolemaic globe model in "all its universities".
How is that silent as to shape?
You are undone by your own contradiction.
I have said that Catholics accepted and taught the Ptolemaic globe model in Catholic (Church sponsored) universities. I have also said that the Church teaches that Scripture is silent on the shape of the earth.
There is no contradiction between these statements. I never said that the Church teaches that people may not express opinions on the shape of the earth. The Church does not object to people pursuing it as a question of science as Ptolemy did. This is not the same as claiming that Scripture teaches the earth is flat or a globe or any particular shape. The Church teaching refers to the nature of Scripture and is not affected by science regarding the shape of the earth.
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When a Catholic has a degree in theology from a Novus Ordo university as Jayne does, they sometimes feel qualified to lord it over others, and tell them exactly what they are supposed to believe or not believe.
It's similar to how the sedewhatevers think.
I know very well how worthless my Novus Ordo degree is and have said so repeatedly. This is a personal attack to discredit me.
You have never objected to the many posts here that say Catholics are supposed to believe in a flat earth. As I recall, you have said as much yourself. This is your typical double standard.
You throw in completely irrelevant digs at sedvacantists and yet you complain about other people going off topic.
Your behaviour makes any position you hold look bad.
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You degree has colored you with modernism, which makes any position you hold look bad.
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You degree has colored you with modernism, which makes any position you hold look bad.
True. And like the modernists, she contradicts herself, and then denies it.
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True. And like the modernists, she contradicts herself, and then denies it.
There are no contractions in what I actually say. You misrepresent my position to make it appear as if I have contradicted myself. I have come to expect this sort of intellectual dishonesty from you.
I challenge you to show a contradiction using exact quotes of my words.
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There are no contractions in what I actually say. You misrepresent my position to make it appear as if I have contradicted myself. I have come to expect this sort of intellectual dishonesty from you.
I challenge you to show a contradiction using exact quotes of my words.
:laugh1:
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Well, now I think its fascinating that someone would post something like this because they have otherwise dismissed such statements that weren't "infallible". The poster in particular has been quite vociferous against accepting any quotes that serve the flat earth at all BECAUSE they aren't infallible. In fact, quotes that reveal very specific teachings of the tabernacle for instance, are totally disregarded because a pope didn't say them.
Take for instance Methodius' statement against the pagans: “Resuming then, let us first lay bare, in speaking of those things according to our power, the imposture of those who boast as though they alone had comprehended from what forms the heaven is arranged, in accordance with the hypothesis of the Chaldeans and Egyptians. For *they* say that the circuмference of the world is likened to the turnings of a well‐rounded globe, the earth having a central point. For its outline being spherical, it is necessary, they say, since there are the same distances of the parts, that the earth should be the center of the universe, around which as being older, the heaven is whirling."
Or Cosmas' quotes against the pagans: “false and heathen doctrine of a spherical earth”.
Or even the quote from Severian of Gabala: "He made the upper heavens about which David sang: "The heaven of the heavens is the Lord's."6 This heaven forms in a certain way the upper stage of the firmament. As in any two-story house, there is an intermediate stage; well in this building which is the world, the Creator has prepared the sky as an intermediate level, and he has put it over the waters; from where this passage of David: "It is you who covered with water its upper part.“
So what's the big idea, huh? Deny, dismiss, berate, ignore, because certain quotes don't serve your purpose? Then complain there are no good quotes that show Catholics defended a geocentric flat earth? But worse, place some random quote up that MIGHT server your sentiments and take the discussion hopefully in another direction. This tactic is common among those who say such things as, "Well, we don't know the shape of the earth because God didn't tell us." And "Scripture doesn't reveal the shape of the earth and no Catholic says it does." But then they post something as if it had all the weight in the world to undermine the quotes they don't like.
About it there can be no doubt. Several people on the thread do not want to discuss with the intention of learning or gleaning information, but hearing anything they are permanently fixed against, they throw shade at anyone providing information that sheds light on the subject. Not exactly conducive to seeking the truth, but rather, a most curious and vindictive brick wall has been constructed to keep information from entering the discussion.
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Well, now I think its fascinating that someone would post something like this because they have otherwise dismissed such statements that weren't "infallible". The poster in particular has been quite vociferous against accepting any quotes that serve the flat earth at all BECAUSE they aren't infallible. In fact, quotes that reveal very specific teachings of the tabernacle for instance, are totally disregarded because a pope didn't say them.
Take for instance Methodius' statement against the pagans: “Resuming then, let us first lay bare, in speaking of those things according to our power, the imposture of those who boast as though they alone had comprehended from what forms the heaven is arranged, in accordance with the hypothesis of the Chaldeans and Egyptians. For *they* say that the circuмference of the world is likened to the turnings of a well‐rounded globe, the earth having a central point. For its outline being spherical, it is necessary, they say, since there are the same distances of the parts, that the earth should be the center of the universe, around which as being older, the heaven is whirling."
Or Cosmas' quotes against the pagans: “false and heathen doctrine of a spherical earth”.
Or even the quote from Severian of Gabala: "He made the upper heavens about which David sang: "The heaven of the heavens is the Lord's."6 This heaven forms in a certain way the upper stage of the firmament. As in any two-story house, there is an intermediate stage; well in this building which is the world, the Creator has prepared the sky as an intermediate level, and he has put it over the waters; from where this passage of David: "It is you who covered with water its upper part.“
So what's the big idea, huh? Deny, dismiss, berate, ignore, because certain quotes don't serve your purpose? Then complain there are no good quotes that show Catholics defended a geocentric flat earth? But worse, place some random quote up that MIGHT server your sentiments and take the discussion hopefully in another direction. This tactic is common among those who say such things as, "Well, we don't know the shape of the earth because God didn't tell us." And "Scripture doesn't reveal the shape of the earth and no Catholic says it does." But then they post something as if it had all the weight in the world to undermine the quotes they don't like.
About it there can be no doubt. Several people on the thread do not want to discuss with the intention of learning or gleaning information, but hearing anything they are permanently fixed against, they throw shade at anyone providing information that sheds light on the subject. Not exactly conducive to seeking the truth, but rather, a most curious and vindictive brick wall has been constructed to keep information from entering the discussion.
The above quote has been replaced in its proper thread...
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Ladislaus: ask yourself how did they arrive at C = 584, 000, 000 miles for earth around sun?
Because they know R = 93, 000, 000 miles from earth to sun.
C= 2PiR
C=2x3.14x93, 000, 000
C=584, 040, 000 miles
Do the math!
Ba'al worship: earth is moving 66, 666mph
OR
Bible: Earth does not move
CHOOSE WISELY
No, dummy, when they say 584 million miles, they're obviously rounding. So it's not 584,000,001 miles?
I swear, if I hear one more idiotic and insane "Ba'al worship" comment from you morons, I'm done giving you even the slightest benefit of the doubt.
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So if I look at a bowling ball and conclude that it is round, I guess that must mean that I secretly worship Ba'al.
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So if I look at a bowling ball and conclude that it is round, I guess that must mean that I secretly worship Ba'al.
While it may be a stretch to say that globalists all worship Ba'al, it is not a stretch to say that Ba'al's religion of false scientism, specifically heliocentric globalism is most certainly a Satanic religion to which much of the world now (at least in part) belongs. People are often ushered into false worship under false pretenses, but that doesn't mean they haven't joined in disposition a trajectory that embodies an evil set of principles. This includes a belief in the Big Bang, Godless origins, and evolution, notions once considered quite dangerous to the Catholic mind, but now are presented as the logical approach to science and the cosmos.
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So what's the big idea, huh? Deny, dismiss, berate, ignore, because certain quotes don't serve your purpose? Then complain there are no good quotes that show Catholics defended a geocentric flat earth? But worse, place some random quote up that MIGHT server your sentiments and take the discussion hopefully in another direction. This tactic is common among those who say such things as, "Well, we don't know the shape of the earth because God didn't tell us." And "Scripture doesn't reveal the shape of the earth and no Catholic says it does." But then they post something as if it had all the weight in the world to undermine the quotes they don't like.
About it there can be no doubt. Several people on the thread do not want to discuss with the intention of learning or gleaning information, but hearing anything they are permanently fixed against, they throw shade at anyone providing information that sheds light on the subject. Not exactly conducive to seeking the truth, but rather, a most curious and vindictive brick wall has been constructed to keep information from entering the discussion.
Even one quote from a Church Father who believes in globe earth does completely undermine your quotes of those who believe in flat earth. Because, when the Fathers are not unanimous, they are expressing their personal opinions and the words have no authority. It disproves your claim that your personal interpretation of Scripture must be right because the Fathers agree with it. It shows you have no basis to say that your view was ever Church teaching.
I have seen no sign that the flat-earthers here have any worthwhile information or know anything about truth. You are quite right that I do not seek those things from you. I post here to make it clear that most traditional Catholics disagree with flat-earthers and to provide genuine information about Church teaching in case anyone is honestly seeking it. You do not have information; you have wrong opinions.
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While it may be a stretch to say that globalists all worship Ba'al, it is not a stretch to say that Ba'al's religion of false scientism, specifically heliocentric globalism is most certainly a Satanic religion to which much of the world now (at least in part) belongs. People are often ushered into false worship under false pretenses, but that doesn't mean they haven't joined in disposition a trajectory that embodies an evil set of principles. This includes a belief in the Big Bang, Godless origins, and evolution, notions once considered quite dangerous to the Catholic mind, but now are presented as the logical approach to science and the cosmos.
I doubt that Ba'al worship had anything to do with heliocentric globalism or that modern heliocentrism has anything to do with Ba'al. It's just a (not-so-)clever play on words between "Ba'al" and "ball". It's stupid and needs to stop.
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I swear, if I hear one more idiotic and insane "Ba'al worship" comment from you morons, I'm done giving you even the slightest benefit of the doubt.
Note that Ladislaus started out with an open mind, prepared to seriously consider the claims for flat earth. He has apparently been so put off by their bad arguments and unpleasant behaviour that they are discouraging him from accepting their position.
It is not that everyone who disagrees with them is a stubborn globalist with a closed mind. It's that they cannot make a good case for their position.
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The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government "space agencies" show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.
The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.
The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.
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There never has been and there never will be any depiction of a Theodolite shooting a level line of sight from a promontory of even a few hundred feet toward the horizon which shows the horizon "rising to the level of the viewer" as flat-earthers keep chanting without any evidence.
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There never has been and there never will be an intelligible explanation for why the full moon faces with its sun-illuminated face toward the earth from high in the sky, from the flat-earth hypothesis which places the sun above a "flat" disc earth at nearly 90 degrees to the line of the moon's light as viewed from anywhere on planet earth.
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There never has been and there never will be any "flat" earth plausible geometry describing how a quarter moon makes the angle it does to the sun (while insisting it and the moon are some 3 thousand miles above the earth) twice each month for all to see.
.
There never has been and there never will be any reasonable excuse for the fact that a ship or plane traveling due east (or due west) along the equator does not have to turn right (starboard) or left (port) in order to remain on the equator and due east (or west as the case may be).
.
There never has been and there never will be any "flat" earth demonstration of WHY two parallel courses once embarked will in due time collide with each other on the real earth, since they don't do that on the "flat" earth model.
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There never has been and there never will be any reasonable "flat" earth explanation for how any weighted object in a vacuum will consistently be pulled in a perpendicular direction from the horizon line regardless of where on the real earth the experiment is conducted.
.
There never has been and there never will be an explanation for the numerous flights of aircraft that pass over or close to Antarctica and traverse a distance too short to be plotted on a "flat" earth model, when many pilots, co-pilots and navigators who routinely fly such courses have and will continue to attest.
.
There never has been and there never will be any honest video showing the horizon unable to conceal distant objects beyond the curvature of the earth, even while the refraction of light through the water vapor above a body of water makes it appear otherwise, since the progressive foreshortening of such objects belies the distortion caused by the refraction.
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There never has been and there never will be a seagoing navigator using a sextant and sea charts who can accurately plot his course over a great distance overseas, when he presumes the earth is "flat."
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I can go on.............
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You show you know NOthing.
Read a book about Ba'al worship and come back to admit you were WRONG.
So summarize it for me, genius. Do it in a couple sentences, since I have no desire to spend my time reading an entire book about Ba'al. How is belief that the earth is round Ba'al worship?
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Per Bible: devil has a thousand names.
Ba'al is the primary (and most ancient) of all devil worship sects. Set, Ra, Asherah, etc. are some others.
This is the religion of the Canaanites, tracing back thru Nimrod to Noah.
This religion is the reason for the Flood.
This religion is the basis of ancient Egypt's mystery religion.
It is the origin of the pantheon of Greek gods.
This religion taught earth is a ball and worshipped the sun.
It's three main practices were: ritual sodom, (male youths were kidnapped and ritually sodomized for initiation) the practice of drunkeness by wine, and the burning of infants alive for sacrifice to Ba'al.
First three lines are fine. After that the links are simply made up.
e.g. Ba'al worship was not THE reason for the Flood.
Egypt's mystery religions do not trace back to Ba'al.
Nor is it the origin of the Greek pantheon.
Some Greek PHILOSPHERS taught ball earth, but that had precious little to do with their religion.
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Wikipedia image of god Ba'al figurine with ball on head.
Looks more like a phallic thing ... which makes sense since Ba'al was a "god" of fertility.
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You don't read you ignorant fool.
Get lost, buffoon.
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Baal worship is described in several areas of Scripture, in the O.T.
Judges 2, 1-29 are especially descriptive. Here are the a few parts of that section of the O.T, from Douay-Rheims, but that entire section is worth reading in order to put into context:
Judges 2, 11-13:
11. And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the Lord, and they served Baalim.
12. And they left the Lord the God of their fathers, who had brought them out of Egypt: and they followed strange gods, and the gods of the people that dwelt about them, and they adored them: and they provoked the Lord to anger.
13. Forsaking him, and serving Baal and Astaroth.
https://www.bibliacatolica.com.br/es/douay-rheims-version/judges/2/
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Pythagoras did not invent his theorem: it was given to him in Egypt.
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-science-space/3700-year-old-babylonian-tablet-confirms-pythagoras-did-not-invent-theorem-021581
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OP's thread title is CORRECT:
GLOBALISM IS DEVIL WORSHIP
IS RELIGION OF PERVERSION
IS RELIGION OF DEATH
:facepalm:
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Typo in original link:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysian_Mysteries
The new link works fine. No problems.
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OP's thread title is CORRECT:
GLOBALISM IS DEVIL WORSHIP
IS RELIGION OF PERVERSION
IS RELIGION OF DEATH
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I don't have to prove that flat-earthism is a gnostic religion, because you prove it on your own without any help.
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You are like the stiff-necked, arrogant Jew.
You refuse to read.
If you did read, there would be no :facepalm:
I speak the truth.
I linked you to the truth.
Globalism is Ba'al worship.
Canaanites practiced it.
Phoenicians practiced it.
Egyptians practiced it.
Greeks practiced it.
Freemasons practice it.
Heliocentrics practice it.
Liberals practice it today.
Dumb Catholics, or unknowing brainwashed Catholics, give assent to it.
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Broken record, repeating the same drivel, nonsense.
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You are like the stiff-necked, arrogant Jew.
You refuse to read.
If you did read, there would be no :facepalm:
I speak the truth.
I linked you to the truth.
Globalism is Ba'al worship.
Canaanites practiced it.
Phoenicians practiced it.
Egyptians practiced it.
Greeks practiced it.
Freemasons practice it.
Heliocentrics practice it.
Liberals practice it today.
Dumb Catholics, or unknowing brainwashed Catholics, give assent to it.
A lot of righteous anger there.
By that same logic, people that have Christmas trees and Easter baskets worship pagan deities. Both those traditions are rooted pagan origins. Latin was used by pagans before the Church. Does anyone equate the atrocities of the Romans with the Church just because they spoke the same language...no that would be absurd. I think you are delusional if you equate murder/sodem cults that occured millennia ago with modern day belief that the earth is spherical. Aside from native American tribes, who actually worships the earth...let alone a shape? The accusations of you and the op of this thread are unfounded and just silly.
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You are like the stiff-necked, arrogant Jew.
You refuse to read.
If you did read, there would be no :facepalm:
I speak the truth.
I linked you to the truth.
Globalism is Ba'al worship.
Canaanites practiced it.
Phoenicians practiced it.
Egyptians practiced it.
Greeks practiced it.
Freemasons practice it.
Heliocentrics practice it.
Liberals practice it today.
Dumb Catholics, or unknowing brainwashed Catholics, give assent to it.
To which I might add, with the exception of Catholics, none of the groups above worship the one true God, or rather, the Trinity, after our Lord's ascension. All of the above groups have a distorted and/or false religion. How does defending the globe earth in any way defend God's truth? I don't see that it does at all.
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To which I might add, with the exception of Catholics, none of the groups above worship the one true God, or rather, the Trinity, after our Lord's ascension. All of the above groups have a distorted and/or false religion. How does defending the globe earth in any way defend God's truth? I don't see that it does at all.
Because the earth really is a globe. We use the evidence of our senses and reason to understand truths about the physical world. And all truth honours God. God is Truth and the source of truth.
The shape of the earth is not a mystery of faith that we learn through Revelation. It is not part of any religion. It is just the physical reality that all men can see. Observation and reason are available to all people, regardless of religion. Pagans and Catholics all believe that water is wet and fire is hot. I do not become tainted by paganism by sharing these beliefs with them.
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It doesn't. The same as defending the flat Earth. Neither matters so long as one believes that God created it. There is no religious importance to the subject of the Earth's shape at all.
But only one of these options is objectively true. We don't change the shape of the earth by our feelings about it.
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Neil luvs the ball, his Mother Earth:
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f4/da/00/f4da00061d5b94d21ecd015987f4a8d4--earth-day-planet-earth.jpg)
He's not the only one. :)
Pagans both old and new would be quite proud of them.
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Because the earth really is a globe. We use the evidence of our senses and reason to understand truths about the physical world. And all truth honours God. God is Truth and the source of truth.
The shape of the earth is not a mystery of faith that we learn through Revelation. It is not part of any religion. It is just the physical reality that all men can see. Observation and reason are available to all people, regardless of religion. Pagans and Catholics all believe that water is wet and fire is hot. I do not become tainted by paganism by sharing these beliefs with them.
Globe earth is a part of the false religion.
It is never observed in physical reality. Never.
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But only one of these options is objectively true. We don't change the shape of the earth by our feelings about it.
Yep. The earth is flat. The horizontal horizon is always horizontal.
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Are you implying that some people believe that the horizon is vertical?
I am stating that the horizon is horizontal.
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Are you implying that some people believe that the horizon is vertical?
No, but there are dopes who "swear" they can see the curvature.
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No, but there are dopes who "swear" they can see the curvature.
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There never has been and there never will be any depiction of a Theodolite shooting a level line of sight from a promontory of even a few hundred feet toward the horizon which shows the horizon "rising to the level of the viewer" as flat-earthers keep chanting without any evidence.
.
There never has been and there never will be an intelligible explanation for why the full moon faces with its sun-illuminated face toward the earth from high in the sky, from the flat-earth hypothesis which places the sun above a "flat" disc earth at nearly 90 degrees to the line of the moon's light as viewed from anywhere on planet earth.
.
There never has been and there never will be any "flat" earth plausible geometry describing how a quarter moon makes the angle it does to the sun (while insisting it and the moon are some 3 thousand miles above the earth) twice each month for all to see.
.
There never has been and there never will be any reasonable excuse for the fact that a ship or plane traveling due east (or due west) along the equator does not have to turn right (starboard) or left (port) in order to remain on the equator and due east (or west as the case may be).
.
There never has been and there never will be any "flat" earth demonstration of WHY two parallel courses once embarked will in due time collide with each other on the real earth, since they don't do that on the "flat" earth model.
.
There never has been and there never will be any reasonable "flat" earth explanation for how any weighted object in a vacuum will consistently be pulled in a perpendicular direction from the horizon line regardless of where on the real earth the experiment is conducted.
.
There never has been and there never will be an explanation for the numerous flights of aircraft that pass over or close to Antarctica and traverse a distance too short to be plotted on a "flat" earth model, when many pilots, co-pilots and navigators who routinely fly such courses have and will continue to attest.
.
There never has been and there never will be any honest video showing the horizon unable to conceal distant objects beyond the curvature of the earth, even while the refraction of light through the water vapor above a body of water makes it appear otherwise, since the progressive foreshortening of such objects belies the distortion caused by the refraction.
.
There never has been and there never will be a seagoing navigator using a sextant and sea charts who can accurately plot his course over a great distance overseas, when he presumes the earth is "flat."
.
I can go on.............
.
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This thread title is memorable for the many malicious accusations flat-earthers enjoy hurling at other Catholics.
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Forget what globe earthers hurl at flat earthers...
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Forget what globe earthers hurl at flat earthers...
It's true. I've seen lots of nasty comments directed at both sides. I'm sorry that globe earthers do that.
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Forget what globe earthers hurl at flat earthers...
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But whatever you do, don't forget the simple facts that flat-earthers can't cope with!
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The circuмference of the earth is about 25,000 miles which means 360 degrees of curvature takes 25K miles to transpire.
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Divide 25K by 360 and you get 70. (69.444 rounds off to 70, and 70 x 360 = 25,200 -- close enough)
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Therefore, each 70 miles a plane "dips down" one degree to follow a Great Circle route.
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Any plane that flies over the equator, for example, only has to "dip down" one degree in 70 miles to accommodate curvature.
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But any plane flying has to correct up and down a lot more than one degree every mile or two, so the one degree of correction needed every 70 miles for curvature is insignificant compared to corrections for normal, ambient disturbances.
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You can compare it to driving your car down a very straight highway -- why don't you just tie off the steering wheel with a rope to keep the car going straight, and then you can take a nap?
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The fact is, even with a very straight road, there are tiny bumps in the pavement or camber to the right or left, and little gusts of wind from the left and right which make the car drift off course. So you have to make small corrections all the time if you want to stay in your lane. Your corrections amount to one to four degrees of adjustment every quarter mile, so after one mile you might have corrected about 8 degrees left or right depending on conditions, maybe more. Over 70 miles that makes 560 degrees of correction.
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Then imagine this highway has a very slow curve in it so that every 70 miles you have to have turned a total of one degree to the right to remain exactly in the center of your lane. Why would you ever notice that one degree when you normally make about 560 degrees? Are you going to notice it was 561 this time, or 559?
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It's true. I've seen lots of nasty comments directed at both sides. I'm sorry that globe earthers do that.
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Is that an example of a "nasty comment" to which you refer?
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Or, is it a coherent, logical post with examples and context but flat-earthers have no response?
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