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Author Topic: Glass production proves Earth is flat  (Read 10176 times)

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Online St Giles

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Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
« Reply #135 on: July 01, 2022, 11:00:44 PM »
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  • How can the sun project the shadow of a skyscraper or mountain onto clouds that are higher than said building or mountain if the Earth was flat?
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    Offline Dankward

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #136 on: July 06, 2022, 11:56:39 AM »
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  • It can't. This only works if the sun is spatially below the clouds and the mountain / skyscraper.

    Here's a beautiful Mt. Rainier sunrise:


    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #137 on: July 07, 2022, 07:50:03 AM »
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  • How can the sun project the shadow of a skyscraper or mountain onto clouds that are higher than said building or mountain if the Earth was flat?


    This incredible video answers your question perfectly, along with several other revelations about the sun's movement.  

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #138 on: July 07, 2022, 07:55:18 AM »
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  • How can the sun project the shadow of a skyscraper or mountain onto clouds that are higher than said building or mountain if the Earth was flat?

    This argument has been thoroughly debunked, where the exact opposite is in fact proven.

    Online St Giles

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #139 on: July 07, 2022, 10:21:16 AM »
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  • This incredible video answers your question perfectly, along with several other revelations about the sun's movement. 
    At 10:58, I don't buy it, and then his argument gets weaker from there, like we are supposed to trust his claim of perspective any more than another's claim of assumed or logical conclusion based on what they see. Both could err just as easily. Where's the science to back it up? I think there's too much confirmation bias involved in that video. He's trying to debunk pictures below cloud level on the shadow side looking toward the mountain with time lapses from the top of the mountain looking away and down toward cloud level. Shadows inside his house are from lower light sources as the windows and the majority of the light from them are below the top of his fridge and ceiling fan.


    I think a sure test would be to find 2 very tall things of the same height, spaced far apart, but close to inline with each other and the sun. If the earth is round, the object closer to the sun should have a taller shadow briefly in the morning and evening. Such an effect would still happen even if the objects were on truly flat ground without any natural Earth curvature only if the sun comes up from below the horizon. The problems with testing comes from the great distance of the sun making the shadow angles very slight, and the small margin of time during the morning and evening when this could be observed. Also, finding the right buildings or mountains for the example could be difficult. The higher the objects used and the farther they are spaced, the better, except far spacing makes shadows have blurred edges.

    The large box below represents something for the shadows to be cast on. The red line shows the smaller boxes are the same height.


    Flying a helicopter through the shadow of a tall building while still being able to see over that building would also work.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #140 on: July 07, 2022, 02:46:55 PM »
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  • At 10:58, I don't buy it, and then his argument gets weaker from there, like we are supposed to trust his claim of perspective any more than another's claim of assumed or logical conclusion based on what they see. Both could err just as easily. Where's the science to back it up? I think there's too much confirmation bias involved in that video. He's trying to debunk pictures below cloud level on the shadow side looking toward the mountain with time lapses from the top of the mountain looking away and down toward cloud level. Shadows inside his house are from lower light sources as the windows and the majority of the light from them are below the top of his fridge and ceiling fan.


    I think a sure test would be to find 2 very tall things of the same height, spaced far apart, but close to inline with each other and the sun. If the earth is round, the object closer to the sun should have a taller shadow briefly in the morning and evening. Such an effect would still happen even if the objects were on truly flat ground without any natural Earth curvature only if the sun comes up from below the horizon. The problems with testing comes from the great distance of the sun making the shadow angles very slight, and the small margin of time during the morning and evening when this could be observed. Also, finding the right buildings or mountains for the example could be difficult. The higher the objects used and the farther they are spaced, the better, except far spacing makes shadows have blurred edges.

    The large box below represents something for the shadows to be cast on. The red line shows the smaller boxes are the same height.


    Flying a helicopter through the shadow of a tall building while still being able to see over that building would also work.
    Even if you don't buy his visual experiment, he explains that point is moot because the sun is always higher than the mountains and the clouds.  If you're suggesting the sun can cast a shadow from behind the curve of the earth that argument is impossible because the shadow of the earth would not cause a mountain shaped shadow but a bigger, rounder one, which clearly doesn't happen.    

    Online St Giles

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #141 on: July 07, 2022, 08:05:40 PM »
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  • That's the issue here: whether the sun is always above everything on a flat earth, or whether the earth is a globe making it possible for a brief amount of time for the rays of the sun to be coming from a source closer to the ground than a tall object relative to that object's flat and level position

    I am not suggesting that the sun can cast a shadow from behind the curve of the earth either. Right when the sun is visible on the horizon, and for a very short amount of time after, the sun will be shining from a lower point than the top of tall objects relative to their position. Any lower, and those objects are in the earth's shadow. Any higher, and the sun will be shining from a relative higher position. To experiment with this and try to film it actually happening would not be easy. It should not be done on land unless the land is bare and has very minimal elevation changes for several miles, so any hills and trees don't block the sun until it is already relatively above the top of the tall objects being used to cast shadows. Fog, or a backdrop of some sort will be needed to see that the shadows are being cast up, and not horizontal or down. A plane or helicopter should also work to put the viewer in the shadow, but still able to see over the object casting the shadow.



    One issue I just noticed about my image here is a problem of perspective: the sun is actually much bigger in the globe earth model even though it looks small to us. But, even with a poor representation of a larger sun (see below), far from accurate scale, there will still be a shadow behind the earth, and 2 parts of the earth where the sun is relatively level with the ground, or slightly below tall objects.

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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #142 on: July 08, 2022, 10:45:33 AM »
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  • That's the issue here: whether the sun is always above everything on a flat earth, or whether the earth is a globe making it possible for a brief amount of time for the rays of the sun to be coming from a source closer to the ground than a tall object relative to that object's flat and level position

    I am not suggesting that the sun can cast a shadow from behind the curve of the earth either. Right when the sun is visible on the horizon, and for a very short amount of time after, the sun will be shining from a lower point than the top of tall objects relative to their position. Any lower, and those objects are in the earth's shadow. Any higher, and the sun will be shining from a relative higher position. To experiment with this and try to film it actually happening would not be easy. It should not be done on land unless the land is bare and has very minimal elevation changes for several miles, so any hills and trees don't block the sun until it is already relatively above the top of the tall objects being used to cast shadows. Fog, or a backdrop of some sort will be needed to see that the shadows are being cast up, and not horizontal or down. A plane or helicopter should also work to put the viewer in the shadow, but still able to see over the object casting the shadow.


    So you're saying that the globe model sun, is in the exact position as the flat earth model sun, in order to produce the shadow.  That doesn't prove earth is a globe, but that the principles and experiments shown in the video, proven to work on a flat earth, might also apply to the globe earth sun, when the sun is in the same place at the same time. The globe model people suggested a different reason for why the shadow happens. Had globe model proponents explained the phenomenon the right way, I might have to ponder the whole scenario a bit longer.  But they didn't.  Flat earthers explained it, and proves it works brilliantly on the flat earth model.  Placing the sun in the exact same place and time, in the exact same conditions works, so good job lining them up.  Still, it doesn't prove earth is a globe. It proves the flat earth explanation works, but undermines the original globe earth explanations that people use to deny earth is flat.        


    Online St Giles

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #143 on: July 08, 2022, 04:49:20 PM »
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  • So you're saying that the globe model sun, is in the exact position as the flat earth model sun, in order to produce the shadow.  That doesn't prove earth is a globe, but that the principles and experiments shown in the video, proven to work on a flat earth, might also apply to the globe earth sun, when the sun is in the same place at the same time. The globe model people suggested a different reason for why the shadow happens. Had globe model proponents explained the phenomenon the right way, I might have to ponder the whole scenario a bit longer.  But they didn't.  Flat earthers explained it, and proves it works brilliantly on the flat earth model.  Placing the sun in the exact same place and time, in the exact same conditions works, so good job lining them up.  Still, it doesn't prove earth is a globe. It proves the flat earth explanation works, but undermines the original globe earth explanations that people use to deny earth is flat.       
    I don't think we are understanding each other, but then I'm not very good at putting my thoughts into words, and I'm not the best at understanding what others are trying to communicate. 

    The way I understand it: the sun in the flat earth model has a fixed altitude. If that is true, and it is always higher than buildings and mountains, then never can it cast a shadow from a tall object upward. Perspective would have nothing to do with it. Sure, as things (in this case the sun) move farther away, they get smaller and appear to move toward the horizon, such that the sun appears to descend to the ground. On a flat earth, it never reaches the ground, but as the sun gets farther away, the angle of the light moves toward horizontal. It will never reach horizontal though. In the globe model, the angle of the light can not only reach horizontal relative to an object on the earth, but it can reach an angle lower than horizontal to the object without being blocked by the earth if the object is tall enough.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #144 on: July 09, 2022, 10:37:11 AM »
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  • I don't think we are understanding each other, but then I'm not very good at putting my thoughts into words, and I'm not the best at understanding what others are trying to communicate.

    The way I understand it: the sun in the flat earth model has a fixed altitude. If that is true, and it is always higher than buildings and mountains, then never can it cast a shadow from a tall object upward. Perspective would have nothing to do with it. Sure, as things (in this case the sun) move farther away, they get smaller and appear to move toward the horizon, such that the sun appears to descend to the ground. On a flat earth, it never reaches the ground, but as the sun gets farther away, the angle of the light moves toward horizontal. It will never reach horizontal though. In the globe model, the angle of the light can not only reach horizontal relative to an object on the earth, but it can reach an angle lower than horizontal to the object without being blocked by the earth if the object is tall enough.
    No, the sun in the flat earth model does not have a fixed altitude.  The sun works through the year in a pattern known as an analemma, something not accounted for in the ball earth model, which would have the earth doing some crazy non-orbiting back and forths not even NASA tries to explain.  This analemma has been noted by scientists, and time lapse photographed. Wiki has an entry on it and while they always try to make stuff fit the globe model, it doesn't make sense.