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Author Topic: Glass production proves Earth is flat  (Read 17076 times)

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Offline Miser Peccator

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Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
« Reply #105 on: June 19, 2022, 11:33:59 PM »
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  • In theory, such a picture could not be taken of an axis when facing south on a flat earth, but should when taken in the southern hemisphere on a ball earth, right?

    And, I do not know if polaris is even visible from far south of the equator, but it should be on a flat earth.
    6min 47sec
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/zMCL7aMvP19Z/

    2min 56 sec
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/Nivloo0EAgc/

    6min 47sec
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/QbEJyrXp7mS8/
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #106 on: June 20, 2022, 07:23:01 AM »
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  • Ok, I have to stop you here and address just how badly this video destroyed so-called geodesy.  Geodesic science admits, readily, that they form their model after creating a model for them to measure their model from.  Seriously? That means it isn't a measurement of the real world, but a measurement from a model they created, after they assume it is a globe.  Yep, that's pretty down and dirty.  It's called begging the question. Even if you say they measure "the length of an arc corresponding to a geodetic latitude difference at two places along the meridian"...What? A meridian they created but never actually measured?  They admit they don't measure anything real but all of it is assumed before they measure.  Why?  Because they can't measure an arc that doesn't exist.  It's a scam.  Earth isn't a ball. All the formulas are based on presumption. Talk about cheating. Later, the flat earthers literally destroy every other fake narrative in relation to this crazy scheme with all sorts of great arguments. Sorry Cassini, this is truly embarrassing for anyone who takes stock in this chimera.

    Ladislaus:
    That reminds me of the circular logic between the geological column and fossil records.  They date fossils based on the geological column, and they date the geological column from the fossils in it.

    O.K., I see what you mean, the assumption being that the Earth is a globe at the time. But isn't that similar to all the flat-earth 'sciences,' the assumption that the Earth is flat.

    So then, let us go back to catholic flatearthers' assumption that the Bible reveals the Earth is flat, a far more important aspect of the debate than comparing astronomical assumptions. First a little history:

    Although there were a few flat-earthers, by the time of Eratosthenes (300BC), followed by Strabo (300BC), Crates (200BC), and Ptolemy (1AD), the sphericity of the earth was accepted among the Greeks and Romans. Nor did this understanding change with the advent of Christianity. A few, at least two, and at most five early Christian fathers denied the spherically of earth by mistaking passages such as Ps.104:2-3 as geographical rather than metaphorical statements. On the other side tens of thousands of Christian theologians, poets, artists, and scientists took the spherical view throughout the early, medieval, and modern church. The point is that no educated person believed otherwise.’ -Jeffrey Russell: summary of Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians (1997)

    “All persons of Columbus’ day, very much including the Roman Catholic prelates, knew the Earth was round. The Venerable Bede (673-735AD) taught that the world was round, as did Bishop Virgilius of Salzburg (700-784AD), Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179), and Thomas Aquinas (1224-74). All four ended up saints. Sphere was the title of the most popular medieval textbook on astronomy, written by the English scholastic John of Sacrobosco (1195-1256). It informed that not only the Earth but all heavenly bodies are spherical.’ --- Rodney Stark: Catholicism and Science, Stark, 9/2004.

    Note the statue of the Child of Prague holding a global Earth with the Cross on top of it. Globus Crucriger has long represented the Christian God’s reign over the Earth. Further devotion to the image began in 1556 when Maria Manriquez de Lara took the statue of infant Jesus to Czechoslovakia from Spain. It is now in the church of Our Lady of Victory in Prague, an object of veneration.’
     
    Then there is the Miraculous Medal. Its design was given to St Catherine Labouré by the Blessed Virgin Mary in Rue du Bac Paris in 1830. In her medal the Virgin stands upon Satan the snake atop a section of a globe, representing the entire world. Now our world is centred on the Earth, a globe from which Our Lady ascended into heaven and on which Mary will crush the head of the snake. Then there is the global moon, which is also associated with the Virgin Mary, reflecting as it does the light of the sun, just as Mary reflects the light of her Son on those Christians with faith.



    Offline cassini

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #107 on: June 20, 2022, 07:37:21 AM »
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  • Following on from my last post, the 'Catholic' aspect of the flatearthers, let me show everybody what must be eliminated as Catholic 'fiction.'

    Our choice of reading for this purpose comes from the private revelations to Sister Mary of Jesus, known as Mary of Agreda (1602-1665), a nun known to have bilocated over 500 times to America without leaving her convent in Spain. The following are insights, dictated to her, she said, by the Virgin Mary herself in 1637, a mere four years after Galileo’s trial. Her three-volume work was entitled; ‘The Mystical City of God’ also known as ‘The Divine History and Life of the Virgin Mother of God.’ These revelations to Venerable Maria, whose body now lies miraculously incorrupt in a Franciscan Monastery in Spain, have withstood many years of investigation and misinterpretation, placed on the Index in 1681 and lifted 3 months later before receiving approbations from popes as a way to gain a deeper understanding of the Catholic faith in line with traditional Church teaching. Here is a passage most relevant to the shape of the Earth;

    'God created the Earth co-jointly with the heavens in order to call into existence hell in its centre; for, at the instant of its creation, there were left in the interior of that globe, spacious and wide cavities, suitable for hell, purgatory and limbo. And in hell was created at the same time material fire and other requisites, which now serve for the punishment of the damned.--- Mary of Agreda: The Mystical City of God.’

    Online Tradman

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #108 on: June 20, 2022, 10:26:11 AM »
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  • Following on from my last post, the 'Catholic' aspect of the flatearthers, let me show everybody what must be eliminated as Catholic 'fiction.'

    Our choice of reading for this purpose comes from the private revelations to Sister Mary of Jesus, known as Mary of Agreda (1602-1665), a nun known to have bilocated over 500 times to America without leaving her convent in Spain. The following are insights, dictated to her, she said, by the Virgin Mary herself in 1637, a mere four years after Galileo’s trial. Her three-volume work was entitled; ‘The Mystical City of God’ also known as ‘The Divine History and Life of the Virgin Mother of God.’ These revelations to Venerable Maria, whose body now lies miraculously incorrupt in a Franciscan Monastery in Spain, have withstood many years of investigation and misinterpretation, placed on the Index in 1681 and lifted 3 months later before receiving approbations from popes as a way to gain a deeper understanding of the Catholic faith in line with traditional Church teaching. Here is a passage most relevant to the shape of the Earth;

    'God created the Earth co-jointly with the heavens in order to call into existence hell in its centre; for, at the instant of its creation, there were left in the interior of that globe, spacious and wide cavities, suitable for hell, purgatory and limbo. And in hell was created at the same time material fire and other requisites, which now serve for the punishment of the damned.--- Mary of Agreda: The Mystical City of God.’
    We've covered this before in other threads, maybe you didn't see it.  

    There was an official condemnation of the Mystical City of God by Mary of Agreda for these reasons

    1. It violated the decree of Pope Urban VIII (March 13, 1625)
    2. It narrated apocryphal stories.
    3. It presented opinions of the Duns Scotus theological school as divine revelation.
    4. Mary of Agreda pictured the earth in the form of an egg, i.e. that the earth has a spherical shape.
    5. It exaggerated the cult of Our Lady to the extent of obscuring the great Mystery of the Incarnation.

    152 Masters of the Sorbonne discussed the Mystical City on thirty-two sessions, July 2-14, 1696.  102 of the 152 Masters voted against the book. At all events, Blessed Innocent signed the condemnation on June 26, 1681.


    Now, this shows a couple of things.  Number 1, how seriously dangerous the head of the Church and the bishops considered the spherical earth. They certainly did not agree.  But secondly, the pope doesn't seem aware that the snow globe world consistent with flat earth was probably what Agreda was describing. The way her description was worded suggested the earth itself was a sphere but maybe she wasn't trying to say that. In any event, they banned the book. As stated before, flat earthers see all of creation as a globe: with hell at the bottom, in the belly of the snow globe. Flat earth in the middle. And heaven makes up the top portion of the "globe".  This exact description is historically preserved in the traditions of Catholic culture as the "globus cruciger"*.  The Church is proven to be in defense of the flat earth against the pagan notion of spherical earth, even to the point of condemning Agreda's book.

    From wiki, on the historic globus cruciger
    *A possible non-literary but graphic indication that people in the Middle Ages believed that the Earth (or perhaps the world) was a sphere is the use of the orb (globus cruciger) in the regalia of many kingdoms and of the Holy Roman Empire. It is attested from the time of the Christian late-Roman emperor Theodosius II (423) throughout the Middle Ages; the Reichsapfel was used in 1191 at the coronation of emperor Henry VI. However the word 'orbis' means 'circle' and there is no record of a globe as a representation of the Earth since ancient times in the west till that of Martin Behaim in 1492Additionally it could well be a representation of the entire 'world' or cosmos. 

      

    Offline Charity

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #109 on: June 20, 2022, 10:49:09 AM »
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  • Following on from my last post, the 'Catholic' aspect of the flatearthers, let me show everybody what must be eliminated as Catholic 'fiction.'

    Our choice of reading for this purpose comes from the private revelations to Sister Mary of Jesus, known as Mary of Agreda (1602-1665), a nun known to have bilocated over 500 times to America without leaving her convent in Spain. The following are insights, dictated to her, she said, by the Virgin Mary herself in 1637, a mere four years after Galileo’s trial. Her three-volume work was entitled; ‘The Mystical City of God’ also known as ‘The Divine History and Life of the Virgin Mother of God.’ These revelations to Venerable Maria, whose body now lies miraculously incorrupt in a Franciscan Monastery in Spain, have withstood many years of investigation and misinterpretation, placed on the Index in 1681 and lifted 3 months later before receiving approbations from popes as a way to gain a deeper understanding of the Catholic faith in line with traditional Church teaching. Here is a passage most relevant to the shape of the Earth;

    'God created the Earth co-jointly with the heavens in order to call into existence hell in its centre; for, at the instant of its creation, there were left in the interior of that globe, spacious and wide cavities, suitable for hell, purgatory and limbo. And in hell was created at the same time material fire and other requisites, which now serve for the punishment of the damned.--- Mary of Agreda: The Mystical City of God.’

    Thank you very much cassini for this very enlightening and tradition affirming passage from the monumental and (contrary to some even to this day misconceptions) fully Church approved work by Venerable Mary of Agreda whose body still rests beautifully incorrupt.  The exact passage is found in Paragraph #82 of Chapter 7 of Book 1 of Volume 1 which can be examined at the following hyperlink: http://www.neemcog.com/index_files/ConceptionChVII_nee.pdf


    Online Tradman

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #110 on: June 20, 2022, 11:12:45 AM »
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  • Thank you very much cassini for this very enlightening and tradition affirming passage from the monumental and (contrary to some even to this day misconceptions) fully Church approved work by Venerable Mary of Agreda whose body still rests beautifully incorrupt.  The exact passage is found in Paragraph #82 of Chapter 7 of Book 1 of Volume 1 which can be examined at the following hyperlink: http://www.neemcog.com/index_files/ConceptionChVII_nee.pdf
    That the works of Agreda were once condemned by the pope along with the majority of the bishops is a fact. At the time, they recognized in Agreda's work that which appeared to be a problem in describing the earth as a globe. The condemnation proves beyond all doubt that the Church under Innocent did not approve of the pagan notion of spherical earth.  Whatever happened since is up for speculation as the truth about flat earth has become bogged down in false notions about it being a sphere. Not to mention that Agreda's work has the ability to coincide with the globus cruciger and the Catholic view of the flat earth.  Nothing in the docuмent above is anathema to flat earthers nor does it teach that the earth is a globe. 

    Offline Charity

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #111 on: June 20, 2022, 11:30:43 AM »
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  • We've covered this before in other threads, maybe you didn't see it. 

    There was an official condemnation of the Mystical City of God by Mary of Agreda for these reasons

    1. It violated the decree of Pope Urban VIII (March 13, 1625)
    2. It narrated apocryphal stories.
    3. It presented opinions of the Duns Scotus theological school as divine revelation.
    4. Mary of Agreda pictured the earth in the form of an egg, i.e. that the earth has a spherical shape.
    5. It exaggerated the cult of Our Lady to the extent of obscuring the great Mystery of the Incarnation.

    152 Masters of the Sorbonne discussed the Mystical City on thirty-two sessions, July 2-14, 1696.  102 of the 152 Masters voted against the book. At all events, Blessed Innocent signed the condemnation on June 26, 1681.


    Now, this shows a couple of things.  Number 1, how seriously dangerous the head of the Church and the bishops considered the spherical earth. They certainly did not agree.  But secondly, the pope doesn't seem aware that the snow globe world consistent with flat earth was probably what Agreda was describing. The way her description was worded suggested the earth itself was a sphere but maybe she wasn't trying to say that. In any event, they banned the book. As stated before, flat earthers see all of creation as a globe: with hell at the bottom, in the belly of the snow globe. Flat earth in the middle. And heaven makes up the top portion of the "globe".  This exact description is historically preserved in the traditions of Catholic culture as the "globus cruciger"*.  The Church is proven to be in defense of the flat earth against the pagan notion of spherical earth, even to the point of condemning Agreda's book.

    From wiki, on the historic globus cruciger
    *A possible non-literary but graphic indication that people in the Middle Ages believed that the Earth (or perhaps the world) was a sphere is the use of the orb (globus cruciger) in the regalia of many kingdoms and of the Holy Roman Empire. It is attested from the time of the Christian late-Roman emperor Theodosius II (423) throughout the Middle Ages; the Reichsapfel was used in 1191 at the coronation of emperor Henry VI. However the word 'orbis' means 'circle' and there is no record of a globe as a representation of the Earth since ancient times in the west till that of Martin Behaim in 1492. Additionally it could well be a representation of the entire 'world' or cosmos.

     


    Please be advised of the following official letter that was sent to Miss Mary Frances Lester, Editor of Tan Books on February 7, 1998 by Archbishop (later Cardinal) Tarciscio Bertone in his capacity as Secretary of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.  A copy of this letter can be found on p. XX of Volume 1 of The Mystical City of God published by TAN Books.  The exact verbatim text of this letter is seen below between the asterisks.

    *************************************************************************************************************
                                                                                                                                                February 7, 1998                                                                                                                                 
    Dear Miss Lester:

        This Congregation writes in reply to your fax message of October 29, 1997, in which you asked if there are currently any restrictions on keeping or reading The Mystical City of God by Venerable Maria of Agreda.

        Please be assured that at the present time there is no condemnations or restrictions issued by ecclesiastical authorities with regard to this book.

        With kind regards and prayerful best wishes, I remain


                                                                            Sincerely yours in Christ
                                                                            [Signed Tarciscio Bertone]
    *************************************************************************************************************

    Online Tradman

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #112 on: June 20, 2022, 12:22:05 PM »
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  • Please be advised of the following official letter that was sent to Miss Mary Frances Lester, Editor of Tan Books on February 7, 1998 by Archbishop (later Cardinal) Tarciscio Bertone in his capacity as Secretary of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.  A copy of this letter can be found on p. XX of Volume 1 of The Mystical City of God published by TAN Books.  The exact verbatim text of this letter is seen below between the asterisks.

    *************************************************************************************************************
                                                                                                                                                February 7, 1998                                                                                                                                 
    Dear Miss Lester:

        This Congregation writes in reply to your fax message of October 29, 1997, in which you asked if there are currently any restrictions on keeping or reading The Mystical City of God by Venerable Maria of Agreda.

        Please be assured that at the present time there is no condemnations or restrictions issued by ecclesiastical authorities with regard to this book.

        With kind regards and prayerful best wishes, I remain


                                                                            Sincerely yours in Christ
                                                                            [Signed Tarciscio Bertone]
    *************************************************************************************************************
    Yuk, Bertone.  Sorry, I had to.  But still, thank you for the information.  


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #113 on: June 20, 2022, 12:24:31 PM »
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  • Please be advised of the following official letter that was sent to Miss Mary Frances Lester, Editor of Tan Books on February 7, 1998 by Archbishop (later Cardinal) Tarciscio Bertone in his capacity as Secretary of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.  A copy of this letter can be found on p. XX of Volume 1 of The Mystical City of God published by TAN Books.  The exact verbatim text of this letter is seen below between the asterisks.

    *************************************************************************************************************
                                                                                                                                                February 7, 1998                                                                                                                                 
    Dear Miss Lester:

        This Congregation writes in reply to your fax message of October 29, 1997, in which you asked if there are currently any restrictions on keeping or reading The Mystical City of God by Venerable Maria of Agreda.

        Please be assured that at the present time there is no condemnations or restrictions issued by ecclesiastical authorities with regard to this book.

        With kind regards and prayerful best wishes, I remain


                                                                            Sincerely yours in Christ
                                                                            [Signed Tarciscio Bertone]
    *************************************************************************************************************

    Pffft.  Bertone is one of the worst out there, and he would say there are no restrictions on the works of Chardin or even Anton LaVey.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #114 on: June 20, 2022, 12:24:46 PM »
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  • We've covered this before in other threads, maybe you didn't see it. 

    There was an official condemnation of the Mystical City of God by Mary of Agreda for these reasons

    1. It violated the decree of Pope Urban VIII (March 13, 1625)
    2. It narrated apocryphal stories.
    3. It presented opinions of the Duns Scotus theological school as divine revelation.
    4. Mary of Agreda pictured the earth in the form of an egg, i.e. that the earth has a spherical shape.
    5. It exaggerated the cult of Our Lady to the extent of obscuring the great Mystery of the Incarnation.

    152 Masters of the Sorbonne discussed the Mystical City on thirty-two sessions, July 2-14, 1696.  102 of the 152 Masters voted against the book. At all events, Blessed Innocent signed the condemnation on June 26, 1681.


    Now, this shows a couple of things.  Number 1, how seriously dangerous the head of the Church and the bishops considered the spherical earth. They certainly did not agree.  But secondly, the pope doesn't seem aware that the snow globe world consistent with flat earth was probably what Agreda was describing. The way her description was worded suggested the earth itself was a sphere but maybe she wasn't trying to say that. In any event, they banned the book. As stated before, flat earthers see all of creation as a globe: with hell at the bottom, in the belly of the snow globe. Flat earth in the middle. And heaven makes up the top portion of the "globe".  This exact description is historically preserved in the traditions of Catholic culture as the "globus cruciger"*.  The Church is proven to be in defense of the flat earth against the pagan notion of spherical earth, even to the point of condemning Agreda's book.

    From wiki, on the historic globus cruciger
    *A possible non-literary but graphic indication that people in the Middle Ages believed that the Earth (or perhaps the world) was a sphere is the use of the orb (globus cruciger) in the regalia of many kingdoms and of the Holy Roman Empire. It is attested from the time of the Christian late-Roman emperor Theodosius II (423) throughout the Middle Ages; the Reichsapfel was used in 1191 at the coronation of emperor Henry VI. However the word 'orbis' means 'circle' and there is no record of a globe as a representation of the Earth since ancient times in the west till that of Martin Behaim in 1492. Additionally it could well be a representation of the entire 'world' or cosmos.


    O.K., Tradman, here is another Saint you can promote as a fraud because she too described the Earth as a globe and not flat.

    Saint Hildegard of Bingen (1096 to 1180) a saint who was made a Doctor of the Church in 2012. Confined to her bed as a child, Hildegard received visions that continued throughout her life. When she was seven her parents sent her off to a religious life in what became a small Benedictine convent within which she eventually became its head.


    ‘Hildegard’s life changed radically when she was forty-two. She had the most powerful vision yet, of inspiration, of understanding, an infusion of knowledge about the meaning of Scripture and the whole content of the faith. She also received the command to write down what she learned, which she did for the next thirty years. Her first and greatest work, Scivias, tells in three books of God and all of his creation, of redemption, the Church, and the devil, and finally about the whole history of salvation. First the abbot read portions of it, then the archbishop of Mainz, then St. Bernard of Clairvaux and then Pope Eugenius (1145-1153), who read her writings out loud himself to a synod held in the German city of Trier. The word was out. A true prophetess lived on the Rhine. Hildegard’s solitude, as limited as it had been, was over. --- Crisis Magazine, Sept. 9th, 2012.

    ‘In Hildegard’s universe, the Earth was the centre, and spherical, around which were arranged concentric shells or zones. The inner zones are spherical, the outer oval or egg-shaped, and the outermost so formed as to suggest the acuмinated sphere that symbolises the fifth element, quintessence of the other four. This point that tapers into outer space is in the East, which is the top of the diagram. One of her drawings, says Singer, shows that she believed the antipodeans surface of the Earth to be uninhabitable, “since it is either beneath the ocean, or in the mouth of the Dragon.” In the interior of the Earth, she believed, are two vast spaces shaped like truncated cones, where punishment was endured, and from whence great evil came forth.’
    ---     https://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/boe/boe29.htm

    I found this description of the Earth very interesting. As I said before, it was Isaac Newton who proposed a bulging Earth to go along with his solar-system, a bulge depicted in astronomy books looking like a rugby ball, the shape your man on the video rightly laughed at. Domenico Cassini knew that was an invention and went out and measured the Earth as egg shaped. The truth will out says the Bible.
    Finally, how many saints have been inspired to describe a flat Earth in their 'sacred texts?'


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #115 on: June 20, 2022, 02:19:32 PM »
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  • One of her drawings, says Singer, shows that she believed the antipodeans surface of the Earth to be uninhabitable, “since it is either beneath the ocean, or in the mouth of the Dragon.”

    Did you even bother to read your own post?  See above.  She said that the underside of the earth is beneath the ocean or near the mouth of the dragon (aka SHEOL) ... as per below.

    All FEs assert is that only the flat upper surface of the earth is inhabited.  We don't know what lies beneath the inhabited surface, but the description above looks more like (below) this than the stupid globe (in which you assert the antipodeans certainly live).



    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #116 on: June 20, 2022, 02:40:17 PM »
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  • and there is no record of a globe as a representation of the Earth since ancient times in the west till that of Martin Behaim in 1492.
    The lack of a physical globe is kind of irrelevant when we have countless drawings of it and quotes expressing their belief in it.



    Bishop Isidore of Sevilla (560–636):



    Illustration of the spherical Earth in a 14th-century copy of L'Image du monde (c. 1246)


    12th-century depiction of a spherical Earth with the four seasons (book Liber Divinorum Operum by St. Hildegard of Bingen)


    Meanwhile, is there anyone from this period who described a flat Earth?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #117 on: June 20, 2022, 02:52:12 PM »
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  • Among the Church Fathers, even those who believed the earth was spherical, most did not believe that the antipodes were inhabitable.

    Online Tradman

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #118 on: June 20, 2022, 03:13:35 PM »
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  • O.K., Tradman, here is another Saint you can promote as a fraud because she too described the Earth as a globe and not flat.

    Saint Hildegard of Bingen (1096 to 1180) a saint who was made a Doctor of the Church in 2012. Confined to her bed as a child, Hildegard received visions that continued throughout her life. When she was seven her parents sent her off to a religious life in what became a small Benedictine convent within which she eventually became its head.


    ‘Hildegard’s life changed radically when she was forty-two. She had the most powerful vision yet, of inspiration, of understanding, an infusion of knowledge about the meaning of Scripture and the whole content of the faith. She also received the command to write down what she learned, which she did for the next thirty years. Her first and greatest work, Scivias, tells in three books of God and all of his creation, of redemption, the Church, and the devil, and finally about the whole history of salvation. First the abbot read portions of it, then the archbishop of Mainz, then St. Bernard of Clairvaux and then Pope Eugenius (1145-1153), who read her writings out loud himself to a synod held in the German city of Trier. The word was out. A true prophetess lived on the Rhine. Hildegard’s solitude, as limited as it had been, was over. --- Crisis Magazine, Sept. 9th, 2012.

    ‘In Hildegard’s universe, the Earth was the centre, and spherical, around which were arranged concentric shells or zones. The inner zones are spherical, the outer oval or egg-shaped, and the outermost so formed as to suggest the acuмinated sphere that symbolises the fifth element, quintessence of the other four. This point that tapers into outer space is in the East, which is the top of the diagram. One of her drawings, says Singer, shows that she believed the antipodeans surface of the Earth to be uninhabitable, “since it is either beneath the ocean, or in the mouth of the Dragon.” In the interior of the Earth, she believed, are two vast spaces shaped like truncated cones, where punishment was endured, and from whence great evil came forth.’
    ---    https://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/boe/boe29.htm

    I found this description of the Earth very interesting. As I said before, it was Isaac Newton who proposed a bulging Earth to go along with his solar-system, a bulge depicted in astronomy books looking like a rugby ball, the shape your man on the video rightly laughed at. Domenico Cassini knew that was an invention and went out and measured the Earth as egg shaped. The truth will out says the Bible.
    Finally, how many saints have been inspired to describe a flat Earth in their 'sacred texts?'

    Hildegard remains a mystery.  Not all her works have been translated, so we don't have her full body of work to compare these things to, but also, we have to wonder who translated her work and was it true to the text?  Although it may not be accurate for obvious reasons, for the sake of this conversation we'll assume it is true to the text.  But even then, we get a mixed bag.  Although it sounds like she alludes to the earth itself being spherical, she also says the 'antipodes" are inhabitable. So much for Australia and the other down-under land masses on the bottom of the globe.  Or are land masses in North America and Europe at the bottom? Hard to say what is up and what is down on a globe. Whatever it is, the bottom half of earth is below water or in hell. This better fits a flat earth view. But this makes it impossible she thought the earth itself is a sphere. It's also impossible to believe this incredibly brilliant saint would stand against all the other saints who wrote about the relationship between the form of the earth and how earth is the template for the Ark, the Temple and the Tabernacle. It's just hard to discern the way she says things. The saints and Fathers explain that the relationship between earth and these great symbols of the church throughout time point to the traditional liturgy: candles represent the stars, the dome above the altar represents the sky, the altar itself represents the earth, upon which the shew bread is displayed, which a type of the Eucharist. Great Catholic writers considered the entirety of creation to be like a house, with an upper and lower story. The church is called the house of God for a reason. You'll often find pillars in churches that reflect those of earth.  The Church is the House of God which stands firm, like the earth, built on pillars, dome above, according to scripture.  Hildegard is no doubt quite trustworthy, but her mystical experiences include a level of mysticism that, without access to the full array of her writings leaves us without an ability to fully discern all the things she's revealing. Seems impossible she was teaching something contrary to the rest of the Catholic world and contrary to scripture, because we know from where the other saints and Fathers drew their inspiration and collective understanding: From scripture and tradition, God's earth is all about the Church and the liturgy. 

    Offline Charity

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    Re: Glass production proves Earth is flat
    « Reply #119 on: June 20, 2022, 05:28:29 PM »
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  • Pffft.  Bertone is one of the worst out there, and he would say there are no restrictions on the works of Chardin or even Anton LaVey.


    I was expecting that reaction about Bertone (he's certainly no favorite of mine), but don't let the man himself be a red herring.

    The issue is whether or not what Bertone communicated (i.e., that there were currently "no condemnations or restrictions issued by ecclesiastical authorities with regard to [The Mystical City of God]" while acting in his official capacity as Secretary for the Sacred Congregation of the Congregation of the Faith, true or not.

    Tom Nelson, the Publisher of TAN Books at the time and unquestionably an individual who accomplished a seemingly incalculable amount of good for the defense and promotion of Catholic tradition which is felt even to this day, apparently thought Bertone's letter was worthy of being included in the 4 Volume set of The Mystical City of God he personally oversaw and had published.

    If you have any evidence to indicate that there are presently any condemnations or restrictions issued by ecclesiastical authorities with regard to The Mystical City of God please present them.

    As far as historical Church approvals/approbations of The Mystical City of God, a tremendous source of review for same can be found at the following site: http://www.neemcog.com/.  Perhaps, needless to say, such approvals/approbations were carried out long before Vatican II and the doing away of the Index.