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Author Topic: Geocentrism & the SSPX  (Read 4687 times)

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Online Pax Vobis

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Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2022, 03:13:45 PM »
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    • Genius = the easiest, most simple solution.  God is all-genius so anything that is overly complex is not of His creation... assuming there is a simpler way.  Globe earth is vastly more complex to understand and operate than flat earth, thus I think this leads credence to FE theory.  Admittedly, it's a circuмstantial proof, and not a fact, but in the realm of the universe, since nothing can be 100% proven, then a list of circuмstantial proofs means a lot.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #16 on: August 02, 2022, 04:07:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 02, 2022, 03:13:45 PM
    Genius = the easiest, most simple solution.  God is all-genius so anything that is overly complex is not of His creation... assuming there is a simpler way.  Globe earth is vastly more complex to understand and operate than flat earth, thus I think this leads credence to FE theory.  Admittedly, it's a circuмstantial proof, and not a fact, but in the realm of the universe, since nothing can be 100% proven, then a list of circuмstantial proofs means a lot.



    So true.

    Simple. Historical. Scriptural. Catholic. Reasonable.  

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    Offline Charity

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #17 on: August 02, 2022, 04:13:31 PM »
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    • Hope we keep this thread on it's OP geocentrism topic rather than veering off into a flat Earth thread?  For my part I won't try to pull any flat Earth threads off into a geocentrism discussion.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #18 on: August 02, 2022, 04:20:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 02, 2022, 03:13:45 PM
    Genius = the easiest, most simple solution.  God is all-genius so anything that is overly complex is not of His creation... assuming there is a simpler way.  Globe earth is vastly more complex to understand and operate than flat earth, thus I think this leads credence to FE theory.  Admittedly, it's a circuмstantial proof, and not a fact, but in the realm of the universe, since nothing can be 100% proven, then a list of circuмstantial proofs means a lot.
    This actually is what made me take the FE theory more seriously last year. I came across this smug guy on Gab who would follow FE groups just to mock them, so when I engaged with him I realized that the edifice modern cosmology is built upon is incredibly complex, to the point of almost absurdity. What I mean is that much of what is believed by the masses as "fact" is based upon theory upon theory upon theory rooted in mathematical conclusions, but very little real-world, empirical proof. Whereas with FE, and Geocentrism, you can immediately observe that the world is not in motion and that it appears flat. Further testing on either proposition actually shows that this is may be the case in both regards. As curvature calculations are proven false by physical observation and measurement; and the motion of the Earth is proven false by the lack of stellar parallax and other such, old, experiments from the late 19th century.

    Up is up, down is down, and we live on a plane that doesn't move and the rest of the world revolves around. Simple, beautiful, and genius.
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #19 on: August 02, 2022, 05:04:29 PM »
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    Hope we keep this thread on it's OP geocentrism topic rather than veering off into a flat Earth thread? 
    Very true.  My bad.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #20 on: August 02, 2022, 05:32:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on August 02, 2022, 01:24:22 PM
    What you are actually saying is that the God who created as many stars as there are grains of sand on the Earth, not even He could create a moving sun to go that fast.
    That sort of reasoning is like that of Fr Paul Robinson SSPX. He said, in effect, not even God could conjure up enough water to cover the Earth, so Noah's flood had to be local.

    That's not what he's trying to say.  He's arguing based on the premise of geocentrism (a stationary earth at the center of creation) from a SCIENTIFIC perspective in favor of our living on a flat plane with the heavens rotating above us.  He's not saying the contrary is impossible, as everyone knows that with God all things are possible ... just that the globe earth is much less likely than flat earth.  I agree with him.
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    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #21 on: August 02, 2022, 06:52:27 PM »
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    • 2 interesting facts:

    #1  I knew (one died recently RIP) a couple of traditional Catholic people who were Air Force commanders.  They were in charge of the government satellite programs.  They said that it was more accurate to launch satellites off a Geocentric Scheme than a Heliocentric Idea.  Now...  That is actual application of science for you in the matter.

    2#  In the Bible when Joshua was fighting.  It was starting to get dark and he commanded the sun to stand still. 


    Josue, Chapter 10 - Verses 11-15

    "[11] And when they were fleeing from the children of Israel, and were in the descent of Beth-horon, the Lord cast down upon them great stones from heaven as far as Azeca: and many more were killed with the hailstones than were slain by the swords of the children of Israel. [12] Then Josue spoke to the Lord, in the day that he delivered the Amorrhite in the sight of the children of Israel, and he said before them: Move not, O sun, toward Gabaon, nor thou, O moon, toward the valley of Ajalon. [13] And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day. [14] There was not before nor after so long a day, the Lord obeying the voice of a man, and fighting for Israel. [15] And Josue returned with all Israel into the camp of Galgal."


    Now...  If the Bible is inspired and Geocentrism is wrong...  Why would God have allowed it to declare that the "Sun stood still" rather than the "Earth Stood Still"?

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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #22 on: August 02, 2022, 09:59:12 PM »
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    • ‘I add that the words “the sun also riseth and the sun goeth down, and hasteneth
    to the place where he ariseth, etc.” were those of Solomon, who not only spoke
    by divine inspiration but was a man wise above all others and most learned in
    human sciences and in the knowledge of all created things, and his wisdom was
    from God. Thus it is not too likely that he would affirm something which was
    contrary to a truth either already demonstrated, or likely to be demonstrated.’
    Cardinal Bellarmine: Letter to Foscarini, 1615. [Quoted from The Earthmovers by James O'Hanlan]
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #23 on: August 02, 2022, 10:49:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on August 02, 2022, 09:59:12 PM
    ‘I add that the words “the sun also riseth and the sun goeth down, and hasteneth
    to the place where he ariseth, etc.” were those of Solomon, who not only spoke
    by divine inspiration but was a man wise above all others and most learned in
    human sciences and in the knowledge of all created things, and his wisdom was
    from God. Thus it is not too likely that he would affirm something which was
    contrary to a truth either already demonstrated, or likely to be demonstrated.’
    Cardinal Bellarmine: Letter to Foscarini, 1615. [Quoted from The Earthmovers by James O'Hanlan]

    It seems to me that the sun rising and setting could suggest the earth is a globe, or the sun couldn't rise and go down relative to someone on the surface. It would rather come near and then head off into the distance on a flat earth. It's size would probably change a lot as it approaches and leaves on a FE. The sun would certainly run a circuit from a geocentric perspective, and scripture mentions it running a circuit.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #24 on: August 02, 2022, 11:24:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: St Giles on August 02, 2022, 10:49:26 PM
    It seems to me that the sun rising and setting could suggest the earth is a globe, or the sun couldn't rise and go down relative to someone on the surface. It would rather come near and then head off into the distance on a flat earth. It's size would probably change a lot as it approaches and leaves on a FE. The sun would certainly run a circuit from a geocentric perspective, and scripture mentions it running a circuit.
    It's in affirmation of geocentrism, not FE
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Geocentrism & the SSPX
    « Reply #25 on: August 03, 2022, 07:32:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on August 02, 2022, 11:24:22 PM
    It's in affirmation of geocentrism, not FE
    Scripture provides a lot more information when one allows themselves to see that earth is not a globe . 


    Its rising is from the end of the heavens, and its circuit to the end of them, and there is nothing hidden from its heat. Psalms 19:6
    The sun travels from one end of the heavens to the other.  In the heliocentric model the sun doesn't make it to the end of anything, let alone space. Clearly the sun traverses a plane.  

    The sun also rises, and the sun goes down, And hastens to the place where it arose. Ecclesiastes 1:5
    After setting, the sun speeds up during the night to get back in time to rise.  This lines up perfectly with the Fathers of the Church, Enoch's, and Cosmas' flat earth model. 

    All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree.  Isaiah 34:4  If even one star in the heliocentric model fell to earth it would smash it like a bug. Scripture says multiple stars will fall to earth and heaven rolls up like a scroll. How does a scroll work on a globe?  A scroll starts flat and rolls up at the ends; this is not descriptive of space or a ball.

    He is not here; he has risen, just as he said. Come and see the place where he lay. Matthew 28:6  If Jesus rose from a ball earth, he went out sideways. He also descended away from those on the opposite side of the ball.  God is not a God of contradiction, but of truth.  Christ rose for all mankind one direction: up.  

    and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. Revelation 6:13   Figs dropping from a tree are smaller than the thing they fall on.  These stars are not compatible with any globe model since those stars cannot be likened to figs in comparison to the globe much smaller than any star. 

    “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”  Matthew 2:2
    When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. Matthew 2:9
    This star is not compatible with the either globe model. A star came down from the sky, led the way for men on foot, then stopped over the place where Jesus lay.  Not even NASA could pretend that a star on the globe model stopped and stood over a small cave.  




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