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Author Topic: Geocentrism Debate  (Read 1090 times)

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Offline Charity

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Geocentrism Debate
« on: December 28, 2022, 07:49:05 PM »
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Geocentrism Debate
    « Reply #1 on: December 28, 2022, 10:43:30 PM »
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    • So, who won the debate and why?
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    Offline Charity

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    Re: Geocentrism Debate
    « Reply #2 on: December 29, 2022, 12:24:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 28, 2022, 10:43:30 PM
    So, who won the debate and why?

    If most of the comments are any indication it was .... as per reasons stated in most of the comments.  Another way of answering your question -- it was the side who told the truth because the truth was on their side.
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Geocentrism Debate
    « Reply #3 on: December 29, 2022, 12:00:39 PM »
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    • There are no winners in any debate regarding natural geocentrism or heliocentrism. The matter is a metaphysical one and that is where any debate can only be resolved.

    Human science has long admitted relativity prevails for man on Earth. Only if we could position ourselves outside the universe and look in at it, would it have been possible for man to see if any body or bodies are fixed, and only then could human science know the true order of its many movements. But because we are confined within our place in space and cannot reach beyond the universe for observation and confirmation, man’s science cannot confirm or falsify the order of the universe..This is most important for it admits that geocentrism was never proven wrong by the empirical method. That has been the belief of most uninformed in Church and State for 300 years. 

    The Bible, the word of God, reveals the sun and stars run a course around the Earth. All the Fathers accepted this REVELATION, and two popes, one in 1616 and another in 1633 defined, declared and defended this revelation as the word of God. The two popes decreed to reject this revelation of the Bible is formal heresy.

    So, the debate comes down to one's belief in the Bible, in all the Fathers, In the Council of Trent, in the decrees since 1616. Popes since 1820 at least, ruled for sciences 'proof' for heliocentrism which INFERS a rejection of the revelation in Sacred Scripture. By doing this, they plunged the flock who know no better into heresy.

    Which brings us to the subject of MATERIAL and FORMAL heresy. Any who were convinced heliocentrism is proven and geocentrism falsified by science, their heresy is material, that is based on ignorance and not to defy or reject a defined revelation of Scripture (like the virgin birth of Christ). 

    Which leads us to a real debate. If one is informed that the Biblical revelation of an orbiting sun and stars around the Earth was defined as a dogma of Scripture, and never falsified, does that MATERIAL HERESY then become FORMAL HERESY?
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    Offline Charity

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    Re: Geocentrism Debate
    « Reply #4 on: December 29, 2022, 04:06:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on December 29, 2022, 12:00:39 PM
    There are no winners in any debate regarding natural geocentrism or heliocentrism. The matter is a metaphysical one and that is where any debate can only be resolved.

    Human science has long admitted relativity prevails for man on Earth. Only if we could position ourselves outside the universe and look in at it, would it have been possible for man to see if any body or bodies are fixed, and only then could human science know the true order of its many movements. But because we are confined within our place in space and cannot reach beyond the universe for observation and confirmation, man’s science cannot confirm or falsify the order of the universe.

    With some slight nuance I (and I believe Sungenis as well) absolutely agree with what you are wisely stating cassini.

    Sungenis has often stated in writing and otherwise that neither geocentrism nor heliocentrism can be proven via the natural sciences for precisely the reason you lay down, but only that what can be observed via the natural sciences are in truth more indicative of and consistent with geocentrism than of and with heliocentrism.  It is in that sense that one may use the popular jargon of winner and loser in a debate on a natural level about geocentrism vs. helliocentrism. 

     So, in effect, Sungenis does not argue that the natural sciences prove in any absolute way the metaphysical/biblical certainty of geocentrism, but merely serve to corroborate that truth and that the corroboration of that truth is no small thing!
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