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Author Topic: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him  (Read 13638 times)

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Offline cassini

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Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
« Reply #45 on: December 29, 2017, 04:57:18 PM »
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  • I will continue with my investigation of Diana Vaughan.

    It seems the problem for the Palladist Freemasons arose when - according to Diana Vaughan - Joan of Arc, by means of a spiritual manifestation, did battle with three of Lucifer’s angelic demons troubling her because of her promise to a Catholic priest not to blaspheme the Blessed Virgin in any way ever again. This intervention, after much soul-searching, led her to convert to Catholicism. Then, feeling deceived and cheated in religious and metaphysical matters up to this time, she tried to make amends by bringing the truth into the open, hoping to convert all her ‘brothers and sisters’ within the Palladian sect to Christianity. In a book ‘Recollections of an Ex-Palladist,’ by Diana Vaughan, she confirmed things that had been written earlier by others and made known new details about the Palladists of the time. For four years Diana Vaughan revealed the origin of modern Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and gave details of Lucifer’s activity within Palladism as well as the goings-on of named ‘Illuminati.’ Her disclosures were hailed in Rome as a great victory over Hell. St Therese of Lisieux hailed her conversion. The Pope’s Cardinal Vicar wrote to her saying her conversion was ‘one of the most magnificent triumphs of grace that he had ever witnessed,’ and sent, on behalf of the Pope himself, a ‘most special blessing.’ Another Catholic journal wrote: ‘Here we witness a struggle of epic proportions unknown in this world, “hand to hand” spiritual combat between the organised forces of Hell and a humble woman of God, raised up by Him for the task.’
         The Masons did not challenge the details of Miss Vaughan’s facts, but tried only to distort them and to diminish or ruin the extent of their significance. Soon however they changed tactics and with diabolical intelligence put together an ingenious plan of attack. They decided to put out the successful rumour that the Diana Vaughan all had read about did not exist in reality. This story prompted Miss Vaughan to announce that she would show herself in public with Leo Taxil in Paris on April 19, 1897. By that fateful day however, Miss Vaughan had disappeared, and Taxil, obviously knowing she would not show, announced that Diana Vaughan was only a figment of his imagination. In one stroke of pure genius, for 99.9% believed him, all the revelations and papal encyclicals on Satan’s direct role in Masonry became the object of doubt and even ridicule thereby losing their credibility. Thereafter Taxil’s ruse as Diana Vaughan is written up as one of greatest hoaxes in history, even in Catholic books. For the vast majority, whether inside or outside the Church, the matter had ended; the role of Satan in Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ was then seen as pure fiction. Never again did a pope condemn Freemasonic Luciferianism and today it is as though Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ no longer poses an anti-Christian threat at all.[1]


    [1] The propaganda that Diana Vaughan and her revelations are fiction can be found today in Wikipedia, numerous websites, some Catholic Encyclopaedias and in many books such as Jasper Ridly’s The Freemasons; Robinson, London, 2000, p.225; Laurence Gardner’s The Shadow of Solomon; Harper Element, 2005, pp.245-6 and Lynn Picknett’s Lucifer, Robinson, 2005, p.239.



    Offline cassini

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #46 on: December 29, 2017, 05:09:08 PM »
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  • There were however, those who either knew or suspected Diana Vaughan did exist and was a member of an ‘Androgynous Lodge,’ one that admitted women. In his investigation for example, Craig Heimbichner questions Leo Taxil’s assertion that he invented Diana Vaughan and all those revelations of the highly guarded inner sanctum of the Scottish Rite of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.

    ‘Masons claim that Taxil was simply a disgruntled expelled Entered Apprentice (First Degree) Mason who turned on them for base motives. If that is the case, how did Taxil manage to publish accurate details from numerous advanced secret rituals in the higher degrees? This writer can attest to this truth because I possess in my personal archive both Taxil’s original descriptions and the actual secret rituals themselves. How would low-level, ex Mason have gained these explosive secrets?’[1]

    Heimbichner then goes on to rebuff Taxil’s other assertion, that only males were freemasons. He quotes the respected Masonic historian Robert Macoy, to prove ‘the rules admitted both sexes to membership, the male members were called the “Companions of Ulysses,” and the females the “Sisters of Penelope.” Heimbichner also quotes Freemason and Golden Dawn leader A. E. Waite admitting the Order of the Palladium existed. We are then told of the discovery of the Palladium Temple in May 1895 wherein the owners of rented buildings found a room inscribed with the words Templum Palladicuм. A large tapestry was found in this room upon which was woven a larger-than-life figure of Lucifer. Heimbichner tells of a modern writer, William Schnoebelen (formally OTO IX˚) who said he was inducted into a Palladium Lodge in the late 1970s by a David DePaul. DePaul restarted the Palladium after supposedly invoking the spirit of Diana Vaughan. ‘If Leo Taxil was a hoaxer then this invocation is difficult to understand since “Diana Vaughan” had been “Priestess of Lucifer” in the Freemasonic Palladium rite described by Taxil. If Vaughan was a figment of Taxil’s fevered imagination why would she be invoked by an OTO faction in the 1970s?’

    ‘It would seem that some of Taxil’s revelations do in fact reflect some highly unusual but actual Masonic events. Masons revel in gadgetry, techno-wizardry and Scientism (as distinct from God-ordained natural science), as part of their obsession with Alchemy and occult symbolism. Inventions, dazzling effects, and the pseudo-miraculous are part and parcel of the stagecraft of the Craft, which has among its spiritual ancestors the magicians of Pharaonic Egypt who tried to imitate Moses by conjuring snakes (and did so, at least in credible appearance). To put spice into this sizzling stew, Aleister Crowley’s secretary Isreal Regardie, testifies in his book The Eye in the Triangle to having seen a Palladium charter signed by Leo Taxil and Diana Vaughan.’ --- Craig Heimbichner: Blood on the Altar, p.73.

     The idea that Taxil could have been fed fiction by Freemasons is not ruled out by Heimbichner, nor that he might have been a double or even a triple agent. He ends his chapter on Diana Vaughan with ‘Is not the OTO the continuation of the Palladium of Diana Vaughan, the “Graduate School” for salivating and serious Masons?’ Others closer to the woman at the time of her disappearance have their own story. Evidence of her existence was found in a church in Loigny in Northern France that Diana Vaughan had visited in secret in March 1897, one month before her set date for a public appearance.

    To make a long story short, the parish priest of Loigny confirmed Diana Vaughan’s visit by means of a visual reproduction and also the signature she had left in his church’s log. It was not the name Diana Vaughan that she had signed, for anybody could have forged that signature, but Juvana Petroff, a mysterious name known only to her and the priest to whom it made sense. It was later revealed as her baptismal name that she took when taking her confession of faith in the Catholic Church.

      But more, as only God can arrange from eternity, this fateful day at Loigny happened to coincide with the five hundredth anniversary of the death of Joan of Arc, sworn enemy of the Devil and made a saint in 1933. 


    [1] Craig Heimbichner: Blood on the Altar, Independent History & Research, USA, 2005, p.68.




    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #47 on: December 29, 2017, 05:28:55 PM »
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  • Clearly this passage teaches science regarding kinds of creatures.  But then again, you don't believe anyone can understand scripture.



    1 Corinthians 15:41

    All flesh is not the same flesh: but one is the flesh of men, another of beasts, another of birds, another of fishes. 40And there are bodies celestial, and bodies terrestrial: but, one is the glory of the celestial, and another of the terrestrial. 41One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, and another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory.
    Jaynek will have to spin an untenable fable to show that 1 Cor 15:39-41 does not intend to teach physical science and that it does not really mean what it says it does.

    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #48 on: December 30, 2017, 05:51:46 AM »
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  • As I showed, Catholics are free to accept the modern understanding of heliocentrism. 

    Catholics are required philosophically to accept evidence before their eyes. Obstinacy is a sin and can in the long term affect our faith.

    You still refuse to look at the science.

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #49 on: December 30, 2017, 07:18:30 AM »
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  • Catholics are required philosophically to accept evidence before their eyes. Obstinacy is a sin and can in the long term affect our faith.

    You still refuse to look at the science.
    To the extent that I can understand the science, I believe that the earth is basically spherical and that neither Ptolemaic geocentrism nor Copernican heliocentrism is true.  Rather, the earth and sun both orbit their barycentre and move in relation to the galaxy.

    My grasp of science only goes up to basic Newtonian physics.  Considering the arrangement of the cosmos involves special relativity.  I do not know enough to challenge the current scientific consensus and it would take years of study for me to get to that point.  

    In the areas that I do understand, theology and history, I can see that most of the flat earthers posting here are intellectually dishonest and willfully ignorant.  I have no respect for them and find it unlikely that they understand science any better than they understand Church teaching. They have no credibility in my eyes, since Smedley Butler tells blatant lies and none of them cares about the truth enough to object.  

    If I were to encounter someone who accepted Church teaching and acknowledged that we cannot base our beliefs about natural science on Scripture and made an argument for flat earth/geocentrism solely on science, I might take his opinions seriously enough to look into the science more than I have.  That has not happened yet.


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #50 on: December 30, 2017, 07:44:20 AM »
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  • Clearly this passage teaches science regarding kinds of creatures.  But then again, you don't believe anyone can understand scripture.



    1 Corinthians 15:41

    All flesh is not the same flesh: but one is the flesh of men, another of beasts, another of birds, another of fishes. 40And there are bodies celestial, and bodies terrestrial: but, one is the glory of the celestial, and another of the terrestrial. 41One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, and another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory.

    No this passage is not teaching science.  It is part of a larger passage which uses an analogy from the physical world to explain the concept of the resurrected body.  What it teaches about the resurrected body is true for all time.  The assumptions about physical science are those of the period and not relevant to what is being taught.  We are not bound to accept those assumptions because it is not the intent of the passage to teach them.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #51 on: December 30, 2017, 08:24:40 AM »
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  • Jaynek did not disappoint, she gave exactly the bullc*&! answer I expected.
    It's actually a good thing.
    It allows those who love truth to see her error very clearly.
    A Catholic of good will and good sensus fidei would be hard-pressed to read that passage and think God was not trying to teach the difference between kinds of creatures and the difference between celestial and earthly bodies. 

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #52 on: December 30, 2017, 08:40:41 AM »
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  • The bible cannot be understood as if to conclude that it is not infallible in every sense, science included. Pope Benedict XV assures us in Spiritus Paraclitus (Sept. 15, 1920):
    ... by these precepts and limits [set by the Fathers of the Church] the opinion of the more recent critics is not restrained, who, after introducing a distinction between the primary or religious element of Scripture, and the secondary or profane, wish, indeed, that inspiration itself pertain to all the ideas, rather even to the individual words of the Bible, but that its effects and especially immunity from error and absolute truth be contracted and narrowed to the primary or religious element. For their belief is that that only which concerns religion is intended and is taught by God in the Scriptures; but that the rest, which pertains to the profane disciplines and serves revealed doctrine as a kind of external cloak of divine truth, is only permitted and is left to the feebleness of the writer. It is not surprising then, if in physical, historical, and other similar affairs a great many things occur in the Bible, which cannot at all be reconciled with the progress of the fine arts of this age. There are those who contend that these fabrications of opinions are not in opposition to the prescriptions of our predecessor [Leo XIII] since he declared that the sacred writer in matters of nature speaks according to external appearance, surely fallacious. But how rashly, how falsely this is affirmed, is plainly evident from the very words of the Pontiff.




    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #53 on: December 30, 2017, 08:53:11 AM »
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  • There you have it: Bible infallible in EVERY sense, including science. 
    Yet Jaynek argues it is wrong or that it doesn't mean what it clearly says.

    I feel sorry,  in a way, for her small, dry, limited experience of God.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #54 on: December 30, 2017, 08:59:14 AM »
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  • The bible cannot be understood as if to conclude that it is not infallible in every sense, science included. Pope Benedict XV assures us in Spiritus Paraclitus (Sept. 15, 1920):
    ... by these precepts and limits [set by the Fathers of the Church] the opinion of the more recent critics is not restrained, who, after introducing a distinction between the primary or religious element of Scripture, and the secondary or profane, wish, indeed, that inspiration itself pertain to all the ideas, rather even to the individual words of the Bible, but that its effects and especially immunity from error and absolute truth be contracted and narrowed to the primary or religious element. For their belief is that that only which concerns religion is intended and is taught by God in the Scriptures; but that the rest, which pertains to the profane disciplines and serves revealed doctrine as a kind of external cloak of divine truth, is only permitted and is left to the feebleness of the writer. It is not surprising then, if in physical, historical, and other similar affairs a great many things occur in the Bible, which cannot at all be reconciled with the progress of the fine arts of this age. There are those who contend that these fabrications of opinions are not in opposition to the prescriptions of our predecessor [Leo XIII] since he declared that the sacred writer in matters of nature speaks according to external appearance, surely fallacious. But how rashly, how falsely this is affirmed, is plainly evident from the very words of the Pontiff.
    I like how Benedict XV emphasizes that even the individual words are infallible. 
    Jaynek,  in her cherry-picking, would find some pretzel logic way to reject Benedict's statement.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #55 on: December 30, 2017, 09:00:24 AM »
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  • These Fathers say there is a firmament and that it is a solid boundary above earth.


    Origen called the firmament “without doubt firm and solid” (First Homily on Genesis, FC 71). Ambrose, commenting on Genesis 1:6, said, “the specific solidity of this exterior firmament is meant” (Hexameron, FC 42.60). And Saint Augustine said the word firmament was used “to indicate not that it is motionless but that it is solid and that it constitutes an impassible boundary between the waters above and the waters below” (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, ACW 41.1.61).


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #56 on: December 30, 2017, 12:07:05 PM »
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  • The bible cannot be understood as if to conclude that it is not infallible in every sense, science included. Pope Benedict XV assures us in Spiritus Paraclitus (Sept. 15, 1920):
    ... by these precepts and limits [set by the Fathers of the Church] the opinion of the more recent critics is not restrained, who, after introducing a distinction between the primary or religious element of Scripture, and the secondary or profane, wish, indeed, that inspiration itself pertain to all the ideas, rather even to the individual words of the Bible, but that its effects and especially immunity from error and absolute truth be contracted and narrowed to the primary or religious element. For their belief is that that only which concerns religion is intended and is taught by God in the Scriptures; but that the rest, which pertains to the profane disciplines and serves revealed doctrine as a kind of external cloak of divine truth, is only permitted and is left to the feebleness of the writer. It is not surprising then, if in physical, historical, and other similar affairs a great many things occur in the Bible, which cannot at all be reconciled with the progress of the fine arts of this age. There are those who contend that these fabrications of opinions are not in opposition to the prescriptions of our predecessor [Leo XIII] since he declared that the sacred writer in matters of nature speaks according to external appearance, surely fallacious. But how rashly, how falsely this is affirmed, is plainly evident from the very words of the Pontiff.
    This section is about people who were misusing the teaching of Providentissimus Deus to claim that only the parts of Scripture concerning faith were inspired and without error.  But we must not ever claim that there are errors in Scripture.  Understanding that Scripture is not intended to teach science does not mean there are errors in it.  

    Let's say for example there were a passage of Scripture that said Joseph set out on a journey as the sun was rising in the east.  According to Providentissimus Deus, the intended meaning would be that he started his journey early in the morning and this meaning would be true, inspired and without error.  It would not be its intended meaning that the earth stays still while the sun moves around it because Scripture does not have the intent to teach about physical science.  A phrase like "the sun was rising in the east" may be understood as a sort of figure of speech based on how it appears.  It does not oblige us to believe anything about the nature of the earth.  

    Understanding Scripture this way in no way implies there are any errors in it or that any part lacks inspiration, but modernists were twisting Providentissimus Deus to claim that it does.  Benedict XV was correcting the modernists' errors, not disagreeing with Leo XIII.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #57 on: December 30, 2017, 12:15:21 PM »
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  • This section is about people who were misusing the teaching of Providentissimus Deus to claim that only the parts of Scripture concerning faith were inspired and without error.  But we must not ever claim that there are errors in Scripture.  Understanding that Scripture is not intended to teach science does not mean there are errors in it.  

    Let's say for example there were a passage of Scripture that said Joseph set out on a journey as the sun was rising in the east.  According to Providentissimus Deus, the intended meaning would be that he started his journey early in the morning and this meaning would be true, inspired and without error.  It would not be its intended meaning that the earth stays still while the sun moves around it because Scripture does not have the intent to teach about physical science.  A phrase like "the sun was rising in the east" may be understood as a sort of figure of speech based on how it appears.  It does not oblige us to believe anything about the nature of the earth.  

    Understanding Scripture this way in no way implies there are any errors in it or that any part lacks inspiration, but modernists were twisting Providentissimus Deus to claim that it does.  Benedict XV was correcting the modernists' errors, not disagreeing with Leo XIII.
    Oh my goodness.  It says what it says.  You don't have to paraphrase and couch the words to fit your notions.  Saying Scripture cannot touch on science is like saying the Church has no business in the private lives of women who want to abort their kids.  The Church is the authority over all things, and even proscribes false science, which is what the world discovered when She condemned pagan heliocentrism.  Your attempts to deny this are plain wrong.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #58 on: December 30, 2017, 12:16:31 PM »
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  • These Fathers say there is a firmament and that it is a solid boundary above earth.


    Origen called the firmament “without doubt firm and solid” (First Homily on Genesis, FC 71). Ambrose, commenting on Genesis 1:6, said, “the specific solidity of this exterior firmament is meant” (Hexameron, FC 42.60). And Saint Augustine said the word firmament was used “to indicate not that it is motionless but that it is solid and that it constitutes an impassible boundary between the waters above and the waters below” (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, ACW 41.1.61).


    Good explanation about the firmament from Fathers of the Church, which I assume they based on Scripture. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Galileo was wrong and the Church was right to condemn him
    « Reply #59 on: December 30, 2017, 12:23:45 PM »
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  • Good explanation about the firmament from Fathers of the Church, which I assume they based on Scripture.
    Oh indeed.  Assures those claiming separation between Church and science are sadly mistaken.