Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis  (Read 4167 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Meg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6791
  • Reputation: +3467/-2999
  • Gender: Female
Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2019, 05:40:22 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Does anyone no how to communicate (directly if possible) with Dr. R.B.?  I ask this because Dr. Sungenis said I could put up his response to Dr. R.B., but he is going to need "more information" from Dr. R.B. "concerning the nature of his objection. For example, if one takes into the consideration the time zones, then the sunrise and sunset should be spaced evenly every day."

    Thank you for addressing the content of the letter. It's good that Dr. Sungenis is considering the letter, even though he is asking for more information before he responds.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #16 on: February 28, 2019, 06:18:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • In my opinion, the title that Dr. Sungenis uses for his book "Flat Earth, Flat Wrong" is also uncharitable. It's arrogant and dismissive. But I haven't focused on the uncharitable attitude of Dr. Sungenis toward those who believe in a flat earth, and DR. RB hasn't either. I'm more interested in the actual subject of geocentirsm vs. flat earth, but you have made Dr. Sungenis the subject.

    Is Dr. Sungenis really so saintly and admirable that he is above anyone questioning his writings? Because it seems to me that that's really what matters to you and Klas.

    Meg, to put things in some perspective, for my part I can say that I greatly admire Dr. (thanks much for referring to him as Dr. Sungenis rather than Mr. Sungenis) Sungenis.  As to whether he is a saint, I will leave that question up to the Good Lord.  I will say this though.  I think he has done much saintly work in the Good Lord's vineyard while at the same time struggling to raise a  family including at least 11 children.  God has bestowed upon him some significant talents and I believe he has made very good use of them and continues to make very good use of them.

    As for the title of his book Flat Earth / Flat Wrong, I can easily see how some sensitive souls could take offense at the title.  I, for one, don't believe his intent in choosing the title was one motivated by uncharitableness, however.  I, having known him for a good number of years, actuallly believe that his predominant characteristic is one of charity.  At the same time that charity can come across as being too blunt or hard hitting for some individuals.  No doubt he chose a hard blunt title because he wanted to emphasize what he believes to be the "flat out" error of flat earthers.  That said, I can easily understand how some flat earthers could take umbrage at the title.  So be it.  I, for one, don't believe he has a thing to apologize for in choosing that title for his book -- a good and catchy play on words in my opinion.

    If you had a real sense of the degree and extent of the extreme vile abuse that Dr. Sungenis has been subjected to over his many years of being a Catholic apologist I think you would think twice before accusing him of being uncharitable.  (Just as one example, Wikipedia has consistently over the years refused to correct errors it has on its page for him so when people go there seeking to find a bit of background on Dr. Sungenis they leave with a very slanted, distorted and outright libelous image of him.  How would you feel if Wikipedia treated you or your father or your spouse if you have one in that manner?!)  When someone like him has been in the arena of public opinion with constant obscene and even demonic (or probably at least in all likelihood demonically inspired) verbal (primarily on youtube) and printed assaults carried out on his good name including the most slanderous types of calumny, I can understand why and how he would naturally tend to fight back and fight back not with pillows wrapped around his "hands," but with bare knuckles swinging for all his worth.

    As for your rhetorical question (Is Dr. Sungenis really so saintly and admirable that he is above anyone questioning his writings?), I certainly don't believe he is above anyone questioning his writings.  It's done all the time and I believe overall he handles himself very well in responding to questioning, at least if he perceives it to be done in good faith and not from some malicious motives such as those for example which are done for the purpose of race baiting or which are done only for the purpose of trying to belittle him and or his work.

    I should mention that over the years there have been some things which I have strongly agreed with Robert.  None of these things had to do with Church Doctrine.  On some of these things I came over to his side and on some he came over to my side and on some we sort of "split the difference" so to speak.

    Meg, you speak of "the uncharitable attitude of Dr. Sungenis toward those who believe in a flat earth."  Perhaps, you would care to elaborate on this in a private message to me.  I would not ask this of you, but for the fact that I certainly have not perceived this uncharitable attitude that you speak of.  If anything, I think a good number of people have displayed rather uncharitable attitudes to say the least towards Dr. Sungenis regarding the flat earth question as well as a zillion other matters.


    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #17 on: February 28, 2019, 06:23:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Does anyone no how to communicate (directly if possible) with Dr. R.B.?  I ask this because Dr. Sungenis said I could put up his response to Dr. R.B., but he is going to need "more information" from Dr. R.B. "concerning the nature of his objection. For example, if one takes into the consideration the time zones, then the sunrise and sunset should be spaced evenly every day."
    I just sent an email to the contact email address found on th bottom of the website where Dr. R.B.'s letter appears.  It is
    flatearthtrads@gmail.com.
    Hopefully, I will soon have a response.

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3902
    • Reputation: +3055/-275
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #18 on: March 01, 2019, 06:37:47 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The above quote is not from the link (letter of DR. RB) in the OP.

    Why do you focus on persons, and the apparent uncharitable quote toward Dr. Sungenis, which is not even in the letter? It would be nice to see your opinion on the actual content of the letter.

    Instead, you choose to focus on how Dr. Sungenis is treated by someone else on the other website.

    In my opinion, the title that Dr. Sungenis uses for his book "Flat Earth, Flat Wrong" is also uncharitable. It's arrogant and dismissive. But I haven't focused on the uncharitable attitude of Dr. Sungenis toward those who believe in a flat earth, and DR. RB hasn't either. I'm more interested in the actual subject of geocentirsm vs. flat earth, but you have made Dr. Sungenis the subject.

    Is Dr. Sungenis really so saintly and admirable that he is above anyone questioning his writings? Because it seems to me that that's really what matters to you and Klas.

    Maybe Meg you should be giving out to the OP flatearthtrads who POSTED THE WEBSITE.

    Had he just posted the letter then his post would have been only about the letter. However he posted the letter on that website, and that website contained the nasty remark. All I did was draw attention to it.

    As for flat Earth, Flat Wrong being 'arrogant and uncharitable,'  my you are sensitive, aren't you? Personally I cannot believe anybody today actually believes the Earth is flat, given we have aroplanes flying all over the globe and none have found the edge of a flat earth proposeed by flat-earthers. We have a northern hemesphere of rotating stars and a southern hemesphere of different rotating stars. Oh yes, I know there are weird explanations of how this could be, but not for me thanks.

    And no, Dr Sungenis does not know it all, but he is the one with the courage to put his reputation behind a very public call to geocerntrism.

    Really I have littler interest in flat-earth arguments, but in this case I will read that letter and reply.

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3902
    • Reputation: +3055/-275
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #19 on: March 01, 2019, 08:01:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • THE LETTER

    'I am a French post-graduate who bought your e-book, understanding very well your position about geocentrism and contradicting flat earth cosmogony. I thank you for it although I would like to make an objection to just one argument, if you please.I myself used to be a fond geocentrist, studying among others Fernand CROMBETTE. As a matter of fact, after having lost my faith, been in a yeshiva in Jerusalem, and living in the French Diplomatic Corps in the Caribbean, I was converted by reading NATO original texts, the relevancy being an incredible hatred against ʝʊdɛօ-Christians, and surprisingly, against Catholicism, which didn't seem to me to represent a danger. To me, it appeared such a dishonest fight that it could only be against the Truth. Thus, I surrendered on the 25th of March, which was the Feast of the Annunciation.

    At first surprised by the deep dissensions within the Church, originating from modernists against traditionalists, I studied the errors of the last Council, which seemed to me to stem from the same enemy inside the fortress, like in the Trojan war, aka the Adversary. However, I was more concerned about analyzing the key, deep root of actual Atheism, especially through Science. I thought to have found it in Evolutionism, that forces one to accept the idea of a cruel or at least powerless Creator, although I suspected the front to have also infiltrated Philosophy, especially with Phenomenology - denying the human rational abilities - thus destroying at its base any possible logic or reasoning.

    My struggle was to point out the irrelevance and inconsistency of these lies who, without rigor and objectivity, led millions of people astray from Truth, Dignity, Hope and Salvation for eternity. As I was working on Teilhard de Chardin to find the decisive factual and logical arguments as a means to open good-willed eyes, I once heard from a respectable friend about flat earth (FE). I was shocked. It was so ridiculous with my Columbus image of ships falling into the nothingness. I couldn't understand how normal people, having a good sense of rationality, could fall into such a trap! How could it happen nowadays? I felt really sorry for him especially with that esteem I had. But I didn't dare say anything assuming he may just not have enough scientific background, being rather a historian.
    I shall say Geocentrism didn't seem to me essential in my journey because anybody could answer: "It just depends on your reference point, everything is relative, everybody is right from his point of view and it is not worth fighting for details which won't change much the implications about faith." However, I remembered how strongly the Zionists and atheists I met had forced me to admit the church had been VERY wrong with the "Galileo affair," so I had to suspect it could be a key point for enemies of Christianity, but I still didn't understand why it would be so essential.
    After a while, I discovered not only my friend had fallen on his head in the FE lunacy but apparently millions (more than 12 million!) of obscurant extreme conspiracy theorists, mostly Americans! Why? It seemed really odd. Even Obama as President talked at least twice on the subject in order to try to ridicule it. Pope Francis must also have found the subject serious enough to accept it as a working topic for the Vatican Scientific Commission. He himself went to Antarctica although I doubt the penguins needed his visit. His "colleague" the orthodox Russian Patriarch went the day after. At that time, I didn't see the connection with FE. Francis made an interview with ISS astronauts, pointing out the philosophical implications of the status of earth for man as a sand grain within the universe. The authority of the astronaut’s position allowed him to conclude how earth is insignificant, without any universal direction up and down as a clue for the relativity of any "truth" which should always be considered as an epiphenomenal point of view. He once also declared he would baptize aliens if they would ask him for it! Leonardo di Caprio had offered him a book about FE but still, I found all this very strange.
    I thus decided to check this unexpected topic by myself in order to understand at least how so many people could be fooled and to be able to see what exact point they need to understand to come back to reason. I also thought it was time to convince my friend and I needed evidence. So began my personal adventure on FE. I can say it was as strong an experience as my 2001 conversion. What I discovered was very different from what I had imagined. Their model was much more consistent than I could have thought by myself. I realized I had been stuck on the idea of a magical alternative to the globe, a model as superstitious and irrelevant as the Egyptian goddess Nut I had seen in tombs. I realized that I was intellectually kept away from questioning ball-earth physics. But this FE model could indeed scientifically work. Of course I found some unscientific ideas, some inconsistent globe-critics like: *rivers needing to flow upwards, whereas flat-earthers just didn't understand correctly the sea level corresponding to the radius from earth’s center to the surface or *the case of people who should fall in Australia which is not a problem at all in the globe model with gravity, or *the perspective explanation

    The letter for me, while interesting, really begins here:

    'I realized I needed to study more, especially all these arguments which needed to have an explanation. I also checked many flat-earth detractors, so-called scientists, but their arguments were either not pertinent, nonspecific, inconsistent, based on controversial testimonies like the mainstream NASA data, or just injurious and arrogant (which is a recognition of lack of serious proof!). I was shocked to realise there had in all human history never been any strong and undeniable demonstration of the shape of earth, except from bias, reasoning from false premises, Computer Generated Images or controversial testimonies. And no earth movement (at a rate of 1260 km/h or 1000 mph with rotational acceleration) even in the geocentric model should be detected nor visualized in the fluids of the atmosphere and water masses.
    I was terribly shaken. All my scientific convictions could be sitting on shifting sand? So I decided to take my time, several months indeed, and I wouldn't accept validating anything until I had found a strong, logical or rigorously verifiable experimental proof for it. At first I must agree I was ashamed, humiliated and angry. Understanding most of the liars had been as deceived as myself, and that the perpetrators were, in their treason, already self-punished, I began to feel a great liberation. It was a freedom I couldn't have thought of before, a deep happiness and an overwhelming gratefulness about God's mind-blowing mightiness, proximity and goodness which I had never imagined or felt before. As a matter of fact, I had, until then accepted the Bible "FE verses" as poetry, symbolic, metaphors. But when I looked at them with a new eye, it just made sense and seemed clear as if it was written for any kind of people, children as well as eminent scientists or theologians, of any civilization or epoch.'

    Obviously this learned man had never heard of the science of GEODESY. I suggest he reads up on it as a means of determining the shape of the Earth by way of TRUE SCIENCE. Its history was founded to determine the Earth’s shape when Isaac Newton was proposing his theory to explain the precession of the Equinoxes. I doubt even Flat earthers nor Robert Sungenis addressed a flat earth explanation to this subject where Newton insisted on a bulge around the Earth to explain a heliocentric solar system. On the other hand Domenico Cassini, the pope’s surveyor, a geocentrist, and his son did their own investigation into the shape of the earth and proved Newton wrong. Cassini showed the Earth is egg shaped. Reject this science to have a flat earth, well not for me nor true science.

    Ever read up on the Egyptian Pyramids? Well they too were built in the measurements of this egg shaped sphere. How they knew, well who knows.

    'Therefore, I would like to expose to you just one simple argument. If you can prove to me I am mistaken, I would be so glad to recognize it, as it would be easier for me to recover my first paradigm, just to fit in wisely into the societal scene. But prior to that, I would like to share some reflections and personal understandings about the FE model, because I know for myself as a scientist, it can be an obstacle if you cannot grasp exactly how a model could physically work.
    First, the sunsets.
    I personally found them in FE only relevant when I could: *reproduce the experience of a ball on a glass slipping along a long table with a magnifying glass 'which represents the refraction of a humid atmosphere’) on the frontal plane; *see a sunset in a dry desert with a sun becoming very small along the horizon

    Try rejecting what the eyes see. On a globe we would see the sun move around the Earth by way of sunrise and sunset. Prove that wrong?

    Secondly, gravity. I think it's the biggest Kabbalah hoax.

    Writer goes on to ridicule Newton’s theory of gravity as GRAVITY. All he says is true. Newton based his theory on a one to one basis. Then he had to take into account the fact that planets were not found on his Keplerian Ellipse so invented ‘perturbations.’ But then came the discovery of more planets and his maths became impossible to show let alone prove. I often wondered how a feather and a lump of lead, shaped the same to avoid any air resistance, will fall at the same rate?

    Thirdly, functioning mode.

    The origin of the sun, moon and stars motions on FE. It could be ………………

    Anything ‘could be’ but do not place your faith on ‘could bes.’

    The rest of the letter is more ifs and buts and cants and mights and could bes which are meaningless in terms of proving global Earth false.

    This is just one subject, but there are many other implications of the earth shape we can logically verify and practically test and I would be very glad to discuss this subject further with you if you like. Whereas only one cosmogony can be true, what I certainly do agree with you is this:
    John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth: and the truth shall make you free
    Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding the profane novelties of words and oppositions of knowledge falsely so called.

    Yes, like heliocentrism and a flat Earth.


    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #20 on: March 01, 2019, 09:20:15 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Obviously this learned man had never heard of the science of GEODESY. I suggest he reads up on it as a means of determining the shape of the Earth by way of TRUE SCIENCE. Its history was founded to determine the Earth’s shape when Isaac Newton was proposing his theory to explain the precession of the Equinoxes. I doubt even Flat earthers nor Robert Sungenis addressed a flat earth explanation to this subject where Newton insisted on a bulge around the Earth to explain a heliocentric solar system.
    See Chapters 5 and 6 of Sungenis' book Flat Earth / Flat Wrong where issues presented by the science of geodesy are dealt with at some length.

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3902
    • Reputation: +3055/-275
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #21 on: March 01, 2019, 11:19:28 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • See Chapters 5 and 6 of Sungenis' book Flat Earth / Flat Wrong where issues presented by the science of geodesy are dealt with at some length.

    Thanks Klas, Robert seems to have covered everything. Well done.

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3902
    • Reputation: +3055/-275
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #22 on: March 01, 2019, 12:11:44 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Ever read up on the Egyptian Pyramids? Well they too were built in the measurements of this egg shaped sphere. How they knew, well who knows.

    The Egyptians knew we live on a globe. In this video, forget planet and put globe in instead.



    How or from where the Egyptians attained this information is the real mystery; but a little help from their ‘gods’ cannot be ruled out. Of interest to us here is Hancock’s research that tells us nobody knows how such a pyramid was built such is its size and n measurements. He tells us the Great Pyramid is related to Earth’s shape on a scale of 1:43,200, a number ‘that is not a random number.’

    ‘On the contrary, it is one of a series of numbers, and multiples of those numbers, which relate to the phenomenon of precession of the equinoxes, and which have become embedded in archaic myths all around the world. As the reader can confirm by glancing back at Part V [of his book] the basic numerals of the Pyramids/Earth ratio crop up again and again in those myths, as 43,200 sometimes as 432, as 4,320, as 432,000, as 4,320,000, and so on.’---Graham Hancock: Fingerprints of the Gods, Mandarian, p.461

    ‘The perimeter of the Great Pyramid’s base is 3,023.16 feet and its height is 481.3949 feet…’ Now consider these calculations:

    Perimeter of 3,023.16 feet ÷ 5280 (feet per mile) = 0.572568181 miles multiplied by 43,200 = 24734.94545 miles circuмference.
    Height of 481.3949 feet multiplied by 43,200 = 20796259.68 feet
    ÷ 5280 multiplied by 2 = 7877.71099 (the Earth’s diameter) multiplied by (3.14) = 24748.55897 miles circuмference


    So, if we go by the Great Pyramid maths then, which the same author believes is ‘a representation of the northern hemisphere of the Earth projected on flat surfaces,’ this part of the Earth indicates it is a prolate - not an oblate - spheroid, not flattened at the poles but slightly elongated, with the equatorial circuмference 13 miles shorter than the polar circuмference, that is, slightly egg-shaped. Coincidentally, this is exactly what the Cassinis measured in 1720.


    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #23 on: March 02, 2019, 02:53:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Egyptians knew we live on a globe. In this video, forget planet and put globe in instead.



    How or from where the Egyptians attained this information is the real mystery; but a little help from their ‘gods’ cannot be ruled out. Of interest to us here is Hancock’s research that tells us nobody knows how such a pyramid was built such is its size and n measurements. He tells us the Great Pyramid is related to Earth’s shape on a scale of 1:43,200, a number ‘that is not a random number.’

    ‘On the contrary, it is one of a series of numbers, and multiples of those numbers, which relate to the phenomenon of precession of the equinoxes, and which have become embedded in archaic myths all around the world. As the reader can confirm by glancing back at Part V [of his book] the basic numerals of the Pyramids/Earth ratio crop up again and again in those myths, as 43,200 sometimes as 432, as 4,320, as 432,000, as 4,320,000, and so on.’---Graham Hancock: Fingerprints of the Gods, Mandarian, p.461

    ‘The perimeter of the Great Pyramid’s base is 3,023.16 feet and its height is 481.3949 feet…’ Now consider these calculations:

    Perimeter of 3,023.16 feet ÷ 5280 (feet per mile) = 0.572568181 miles multiplied by 43,200 = 24734.94545 miles circuмference.
    Height of 481.3949 feet multiplied by 43,200 = 20796259.68 feet
    ÷ 5280 multiplied by 2 = 7877.71099 (the Earth’s diameter) multiplied by (3.14) = 24748.55897 miles circuмference


    So, if we go by the Great Pyramid maths then, which the same author believes is ‘a representation of the northern hemisphere of the Earth projected on flat surfaces,’ this part of the Earth indicates it is a prolate - not an oblate - spheroid, not flattened at the poles but slightly elongated, with the equatorial circuмference 13 miles shorter than the polar circuмference, that is, slightly egg-shaped. Coincidentally, this is exactly what the Cassinis measured in 1720.
    Wow, a rather incredible find to say the least!  I am going to have to look more into this.  Really amazing!

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3902
    • Reputation: +3055/-275
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #24 on: March 03, 2019, 04:39:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • How about this Klas: Long before Hancock's measurements:


    ‘According to Flavius Josephus’s Jєωιѕн Antiquities, the descendants of Adam’s son Seth, unlike the wicked progeny of Cain who revelled in depravity and brigandage, were virtuous men who lived in peace and prosperity, and discovered the “knowledge of the heavens and their ordered arrangement.”… A few pages later, after telling the story of the Deluge, Josephus returns to the Patriarchs, the generations from Adam to Noah, remarking that their great ages should not seem unbelievable just because no one lives that long today. There were good reasons. First because they were beloved of God and were creatures of God Himself, and then because they had a diet, [climate, and environment] conducive to longevity. Finally, on account of their virtue and for the sake of the usefulness of their knowledge of astronomy and geometry, God gave them a long life, for they could have foretold nothing with certainty unless they lived for 600 years, the period of the completion of a “great year.”… He also accepts Josephus’s claim that it was through the study of the stars [the wandering stars, the planets], indeed of the irregularity of their motions, that Abraham was led to knowledge of the true God, for their irregularity shows that they move, not by their own will, but for our benefit in service to a commanding power.’[1]



    [1]N. Swerdlow: ‘Astronomical Chronology and prophecy: Jean-Dominique Cassini’s discovery of Josephus’s great lunisolar period of the Patriarchs,’ Journal of the Warburg and Courtauld Institutes, Vol. 53, 1990, pp.1-3.



    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3902
    • Reputation: +3055/-275
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #25 on: March 04, 2019, 01:29:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • How about this Klas: Long before Hancock's measurements:


    Finally, on account of their virtue and for the sake of the usefulness of their knowledge of astronomy and geometry, God gave them a long life, for they could have foretold nothing with certainty unless they lived for 600 years, the period of the completion of a “great year.”… He also accepts Josephus’s claim that it was through the study of the stars [the wandering stars, the planets], indeed of the irregularity of their motions, that Abraham was led to knowledge of the true God, for their irregularity shows that they move, not by their own will, but for our benefit in service to a commanding power.’[1]


    [1]N. Swerdlow: ‘Astronomical Chronology and prophecy: Jean-Dominique Cassini’s discovery of Josephus’s great lunisolar period of the Patriarchs,’ Journal of the Warburg and Courtauld Institutes, Vol. 53, 1990, pp.1-3.

    Here is where swerdlow read about Cassini's 600 years:

    Nothing better helps to know the antiquity of astronomy, than what Ptolemy (120AD) says of the observations of the skies by which Hipparchus (140BC) reformed this science two thousand years ago. Ptolemy reports that those who were already called astronomers in the days of Hipparchus had observed that the Moon not only moves unequally both by longitude as well as latitude but also that the extent of its inequality, since known as Apogee and Perigee, successively passes through all the degrees of the Zodiac, and that its greatest latitude as well in the north regions as in the regions of the south is transported by the flight of time, by all the degrees of this same circle, in such manner that at each revolution the Moon cuts across the Ecliptic in different degrees. That these astronomers, in order to discover the rules governing these inequalities, compared together many lunar eclipses by which means they sought to find the longest periods of time which being equal among themselves, each contained the same number of unequal months, that Hipparchus, to connect these long periods once found, had chosen from a great number of ancient observations those proper to his purposes; and that having compared them amongst themselves, he noticed that the Sun and the Moon starting from that same point in the sky, would meet 4267 times in 126007 days and one hour after the Moon had made 4612 revolutions by the Zodiac with regard to the fixed stars, less seven degrees and one half, and that it made 4573 returns to the point of its apogee. That nevertheless after this period of 4573 revolutions, the eclipses do not come back to the original size, but only after 5458 months. This witness by Ptolemy shows of course that some of these observations of the skies used by Hipparchus were very old. For a very long interval of time is required and a great number of observations as well to be able to conclude that these very long periods observed together by Hipparchus were uniform; it is not difficult to see the need for many observations to control this uniformity when one thinks that of all the eclipses occurring from 2500 years ago to the present moment there are not two that would be out of conformity with the spaces of these long periods. An objection that could render suspect the antiquity of these observations used by Hipparchus is that about 2200 years from the time this astronomer lived up to the Deluge, which would appear to have buried all monuments of arts and sciences. But one must not be surprised that the memory of the astronomic observations made during the first age of the world, could have lasted even after the Flood, since Josephus recalls that the descendants of Seth to preserve for posterity the memory of the observations of the skies that had been made, sculpted the main ones on two columns, one of stone, the other of brick; that the one of stone survived the Deluge, and that in his time one could see traces of it in Syria. It is therefore established that right from the first age of the world, men had already made great progress in the science of the movement of the stars. One could even say that they were more versed in this lore than they have been since the Flood, if it is true that the year used as a yardstick by the ancient Patriarchs was of the greatness of those composed by the great period of 600 years, as mentioned in the Antiquities of the Jews written by Josephus. We cannot find in the remaining monuments of all the other nations any vestige of this period of 600 years, one of the finest yet to be invented. For supposing the lunar month of 29 days 12 hours 44 minutes and 3 seconds, one finds that 219146 days and a half make 7421 lunar months; and this same number of 219146 days and a half gives 600 solar years each consisting of 365 days, 5 hours, 51 minutes and 36 seconds. If this is the year in use before the Flood, as there appears to be every chance of being so, it must be admitted that the ancient Patriarchs knew already with great precision the movement of the stars; for this lunar month accords, for one second out, with that which has been determined by modern astronomers; and the solar year is more exact than that of Hipparchus and Ptolemy, who assigned the year 365 days, 5 hrs, 55 minutes and 12 seconds.[1]



    [1] The tropical year is now calculated to be 365 days, 5 hours, 48 min, 51.6 seconds.




    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3902
    • Reputation: +3055/-275
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #26 on: March 04, 2019, 01:37:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Some years ago a friend sent me a copy of

    THE ORIGIN AND THE PROGRESS OF ASTRONOMY AND ITS USE IN GEOGRAPHY AND FOR NAVIGATION 1693, a little I have posted above.
    It was in French but a SSPX priest translated it into English for me.
    I would be willing to post it on CIF if there was an interest in it.

    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #27 on: March 04, 2019, 02:23:52 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I just sent an email to the contact email address found on th bottom of the website where Dr. R.B.'s letter appears.  It is
    flatearthtrads@gmail.com.
    Hopefully, I will soon have a response.

    Here is the response in french I received today from flatearthtrads@gmail.com. I forwarded the response in french on to Dr. Sungenis today.  I also have included a Google translation of the french below it.

    Si je comprends bien, il demandeles précisions d'orientation de lever et de coucher de soleil non pas selon les zones de latitude mais plutôt de longitude, ce qui correspondrait plutôt aux 'time zones', n'est-ce pas, c'est-à-dire selon la situation à l'est ou à l'ouest de Greewich?
     
    Pour moi, selon ma réflexion, cela ne change rien si ce n'est un décalage dans le temps, et cela ne m'importe pas de réfléchir sur sa zone géographique aux Etats Unis (quelle est sa ville ?). On peut de toutes façon vérifier sur timeanddate.com.
     
    Ce que je veux montrer et qui est très simple et connu de toutes les personnes qui vivent par exemple dans l'hémisphère nord entre le tropique du cancer et le pôle Nord:
     
    Le soleil va de l'est vers l'ouest au printemps et à l'automne
                     du sud est vers le sud ouest en hiver (parcours apparent plus petit)
                     du nord est au nord ouest en été (parcours apparent plus grand)
    Tout le monde est d'accord ?
     
    Mais avec un globe, qu'il soit géocentrique ou héliocentrique, le problème est que l'inclinaison de 66,6° de l'axe terrestre N-S avec le plan de l'écliptique rend bien compte de l'ensoleillement varible selon les saisons et de la hauteur du soleil au zénith. C'est bien ce qui a permis de tromper tout le monde en faisant croire que la théorie copernicienne était recevable.
    En revanche, dès que l'on s'intéresse aux levers et couchers de soleil, ceux-ci devraient être :
    asymétriques au printemps et automne( est et sud ouest   ou   sud-est et ouest)
    en été le soleil vient du sud-est pour aller au sud ouest (plus petit parcours)
    tandis qu'en hiver, il part de l'est pour aller à l'ouest...
     
    Le problème est que pour les directions, en particulier pour les asymétries, il est difficile d'invoquer la diffraction de l'atmosphère ou une autre explication.
     
    Voyons le modèle FE:
    Il est parfaitement cohérent en admettant que notre visibilité, non seulement avec la perspective mais aussi avec l'effet loupe de l'atmosphère humide
    car les levers et couchers sont toujours symétriques
    et en été où le circuit est plus proche du nord, ils sont plutôt vers le nord (nord-est et nord-ouest)
    tandis qu'en hiver où la trajectoire est plus au sud, la perte de visibilité du soleil est plus en direction du sud (sud-est et sud-ouest)
     
    Je suis aussi à disposition s'il souhaite de plus amples renseignements sur n'importe quel détail.
     
    J'ai aussi un pojet de synthèse sur la FE et ses conséquences métaphysiques; je vous le donnerai dès qu'il sera terminé

    *******************
    As I understand it demandeles orientation details sunrise and sunset not depending on the area of latitude but longitude, which rather correspond to the 'time zones', is not it, that is -to say in the situation in the east or west Greewich?
    For me, in my thinking, it does not change if it is a time lag, and it does not matter to me to reflect on its geographical area in the US (which is his city?). We can all check on how timeanddate.com .
    What I want to show and that is very simple and known to all the people living for example in the northern hemisphere between the Tropic of Cancer and the North Pole:
    The sun goes from east to west in the spring and fall
    south east to south west in winter (apparent path smaller)
    North is to the north west in summer (apparent path more)
    Everyone is in agreement ?
    But with a globe, it is geocentric or heliocentric, the problem is that the inclination of 66.6 ° to the Earth's axis NS with the plane of the ecliptic well aware of sunshine varible with the seasons and the height of the sun at its zenith. This is what has helped fool everyone into believing that the Copernican theory was admissible.
    But as soon as one is interested in the sunrises and sunsets, these should be:
    asymmetric spring and autumn (east and south west or south east and west)
    in summer the sun comes from the southeast to go south west (smaller route)
    while in winter it from the east to go west ...
    The problem is that for directions, especially for asymmetries, it is difficult to invoke the diffraction of the atmosphere or another explanation.
    Let the FE model:
    It is perfectly consistent admitting that our visibility, not only with the prospect but also with the magnifying effect of the humid atmosphere
    because the sunrises and sunsets are always symmetrical
    and in summer when the circuit is closer to the north, they are more to the north (northeast and northwest)
    while in winter where the trajectory is further south, loss of sunlight visibility is more to the south (southeast and southwest)
    I am also available if he wants more information on any detail.
    I also have a synthetic pojet the FE and its metaphysical implications; I will give you once completed

    Offline cassini

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3902
    • Reputation: +3055/-275
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #28 on: March 05, 2019, 05:15:34 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What in God's name is he saying klas, or rather trying to say? Do you know?

    Offline klasG4e

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2307
    • Reputation: +1344/-235
    • Gender: Male
    Re: French Dr. R.B. Ph.D responds to Sungenis
    « Reply #29 on: March 05, 2019, 08:42:34 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What in God's name is he saying klas, or rather trying to say? Do you know?
    No idea!  I am awaiting to see if I get any comment from Robert S.