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Offline IndultCat

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Flat-Earthers Please Explain
« on: May 22, 2025, 03:39:13 AM »
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  • As a "Globe-Tard", can any flat-earther explain to me how he can look up into the sky with a telescope, see all of the other planets as being "ROUND" and yet still believe that the Earth, for some reason, is "FLAT"???? :facepalm:

    Yes, there are many twisted agendas and nefarious plots being conducted on a "global scale" :laugh1:  (including lies by NASA --- Never A Straight Answer :laugh1:) but, why do flat-earthers believe that lying about the shape of the Earth is one of those twisted agendas/nefarious plots? I don't understand the motive for scientists to lie for centuries and centuries to convince most humans that the Earth is a different shape from what it really is (is it because flat-earthers believe that the Bible says the Earth is flat and that we live in a geocentric solar system?).

    When a flat-earther looks at all of the other round planets in space, does he think things such as: "space is fake" or "those aren't real planets up there"?  If so, then they must explain how anyone and everyone who uses a telescope to see the other planets ALL SEE ROUND PLANETS. Why would Earth be any different shape-wise?

    Someone wise said a long time ago the following: "The Bible tells you how to get to heaven...it DOES NOT tell you how the heavens go. That's why we have science."

    Instead of calling people like me "Globe-Tards", why not just answer these simple questions???:smirk:

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #1 on: May 22, 2025, 04:53:02 AM »
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  • 1. Regarding calling names. In my experience, "Flat Earthers" are more interested in facts, experimentation and logic. Simply put, they don't need to resort to name calling.
    FEs don't usually call names, except occasionally when they lose patience; as they are constantly attacked.

    Let me put it this way:

    If I told you, "I was talking to John this morning, and I called him a brain dead simple moron who should be sterilized for the good of society." You'd be like "OUCH! Did you have to be so brutal?" but then if I had added, "after he tried to convince me the earth was flat". You'd laugh and high-five me. ADMIT IT.

    In other words, it's like punching nαzιs. If you said you punched just about ANYONE ELSE, people would be critical, unsupportive of your violent behavior, and wouldn't get behind you for it. But if you said your assault victim was a nαzι, you could punch him all you like and people would high-five you. It's part of the programming everyone receives today.
    Seriously, there are few other things that are so "open season" according to the modern world, as being Flat Earth. Why?

    As a corollary to this, it means that a FE calling a Globe-believer a name is NOT the same thing as a Globe-believer calling a FE a name. Ever heard of "punching down"? AND YET -- 99 times out of 100, the verbal violence is FROM Globers TOWARDS FEs.
    How can this be, when they have the full support of the mainstream scientific establishment, the whole world, the entire media, etc.? They should be more secure psychologically -- they shouldn't feel so defensive and scared, where they have to lash out and tear down FEs personally all the time. BUT THEY DO. In fact, some of them are quite vile (attacking spouses, children, making slanderous accusations, etc. -- being quite degenerate).

    If the earth were truly a globe, then people would be mildly amused at best at "those weird few" who believe the earth is flat. Why would they waste their time creating a Youtube channel dedicated to bashing flat earthers?

    Does anyone create a channel dedicated to the fact that Elvis is dead, or that politicians ARE NOT space aliens? Of course not. It would be a waste of time.

    In conclusion -- I consider this a pretty serious argument for Flat Earth in itself, even though it doesn't even begin to address the myriad physical evidence. Unfortunately for globe lovers, the physical evidence is MUCH more immediately relevant, convincing, and powerful. So my point, addressed in this post, seldom gets brought up.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #2 on: May 22, 2025, 05:07:27 AM »
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  • 2. Regarding "There are apparent spheres in the sky, therefore we're standing on one of them."

    That is not logical. You don't think the earth is different or special than the contents of "the heavens"?
    Don't tell me you believe the hell-bound atheists that "planets" all formed from accretion disks of dust around stars 4.5 billions years ago (at least in our "solar system"), and that earth is just another "planet" albeit a slightly-special one more amenable to life.
    Don't tell me you believe in Theistic evolution! (Basically that evolution is true, but that God created the Big Bang, and later stepped in and created the first Man).

    A lot of what people believe comes from NASA deception, including thousands of CGI-generated images.
    Ever notice that "artist's renditions" of exoplanets they claim to discover -- which are too far away for any real observation -- look suspiciously like the "photos" of the "real planets" of our own solar system -- including earth?

    A lot of what we see is pre-guided by such propaganda. You see a fuzzy circle in your telescope, and believe it to be the thing NASA and Hollywood shows you constantly.

    Let's play a game -- which of these are real photos, and which are artists renditions (CGI) of an exoplanet?

    Also, I note that even the "photos" of earth are admitted to be CGI composites. Mr. Blue Marble admitted it himself. "Yes it's photoshopped. But it has to be."
    I learned that ONLY AFTER I STARTED INVESTIGATING Flat Earth.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #3 on: May 22, 2025, 05:24:25 AM »
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  • Someone wise said a long time ago the following: "The Bible tells you how to get to heaven...it DOES NOT tell you how the heavens go. That's why we have science."

    That sounds like something a science-worshiper would say. Science is the pursuit of knowledge. It isn't a religion or an identity. When you wear a T-shirt that says, "I f*cking love science!" that is not a love of exploring and gaining knowledge of the natural world -- that is an emotional "team mentality" adherence to Scientism, the religion of science.

    I'm excited and proud to be a Catholic as well. Several of my kids have Catholic T-shirts, and I wouldn't hesitate to wear one myself. But Catholicism is an identity and a religion. Is "science" such a religion as well?

    So you're putting lots of limitations and boundaries around the Bible, similar to the concepts of geofencing, timeboxing, or "limiting the damage". Putting the Bible in a spiwitual playpen of sorts. As the kids say nowadays, "Oof!"

    So you admit that the Bible teaches, or at least leans, Flat Earth? And yet you aren't giving Flat Earth more serious consideration?
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #4 on: May 22, 2025, 05:33:43 AM »
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  • why do flat-earthers believe that lying about the shape of the Earth is one of those twisted agendas/nefarious plots? I don't understand the motive for scientists to lie for centuries and centuries to convince most humans that the Earth is a different shape from what it really is

    Because we actually believe in God who is infinite goodness, and the devil (and evil) which are opposed to God.

    You can't properly believe in or appreciate true evil until and unless you fully, intuitively accept DEEP DOWN the existence of an infinitely good God.

    If the earth is a globe and just another heavenly body -- and everything is in orbit of something else -- then maybe the evolutionists are right that a big bang happened, stars formed, then exploded one by one creating the elements, and then billions of years later eventually our own Sun formed, and all the planets formed from the accretion disk of dust, which orbited the primitive Sun -- which is why things spin around the Sun to this day. In short, godless evolution is POSSIBLE. (albeit still quite crazy, if you think about it). When I say it's possible I mean "if you blow out people's minds with ridiculously large distances, ridiculously long unfathomable periods of time, such that you overwhelm them until they suspend disbelief." But just look around you -- it works with most people.

    But if Earth is the realm we live in, and there are heavens above us, and we are all under some kind of Firmament or dome -- then it's obvious we were created (by Whom?) and there is NO OTHER explanation.

    Why indeed! Do I really need to spell it out for you? They're trying to hide God.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #5 on: May 22, 2025, 05:36:15 AM »
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  • And no, it wasn't "all scientists" who taught the Globe for centuries. That's another lie.

    There were many Flat Earth books written in the 1800's, and they were the resources that got the current Flat Earth "movement" started around 2015 (the one that had to get smashed with the help of Google/Youtube, various personalities, an extra dollop of propaganda, etc.)

    I saw a video of a 100+ year old lady, and she said that she was taught, in school, that the earth was flat. Just 100 years ago!
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #6 on: May 22, 2025, 05:55:41 AM »
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  • As a "Globe-Tard", can any flat-earther explain to me how he can look up into the sky with a telescope, see all of the other planets as being "ROUND" and yet still believe that the Earth, for some reason, is "FLAT"???? :facepalm:

    Yes, there are many twisted agendas and nefarious plots being conducted on a "global scale" :laugh1:  (including lies by NASA --- Never A Straight Answer :laugh1:) but, why do flat-earthers believe that lying about the shape of the Earth is one of those twisted agendas/nefarious plots? I don't understand the motive for scientists to lie for centuries and centuries to convince most humans that the Earth is a different shape from what it really is (is it because flat-earthers believe that the Bible says the Earth is flat and that we live in a geocentric solar system?).

    When a flat-earther looks at all of the other round planets in space, does he think things such as: "space is fake" or "those aren't real planets up there"?  If so, then they must explain how anyone and everyone who uses a telescope to see the other planets ALL SEE ROUND PLANETS. Why would Earth be any different shape-wise?

    Someone wise said a long time ago the following: "The Bible tells you how to get to heaven...it DOES NOT tell you how the heavens go. That's why we have science."

    Instead of calling people like me "Globe-Tards", why not just answer these simple questions???:smirk:

    As a global-Earth geocentrist allow me to answer you Indultcat. The answer lies in your question
    '(is it because flat-earthers believe that the Bible says the Earth is flat and that we live in a geocentric solar system?'
    First there is no such-thing as a 'geocentric solar system.' A solar-system is a heliocentric belief.
    A geocentric universe is a dogma held by the Church, one held by all the Fathers because it is revealed in Scripture and has been defined and declared as such. Evidence for geocentrism was found in 1870 and 1887 which eliminates heliocentrism as ever capable of being proven.

    There are also revelations in the Bible that could be read as revealing a flat Earth, and it is based on this that most flat-earthers base their beliefs. They can also claim some important Fathers believed in a flat-earth. Now whereas a geocentric Earth had been dogmatised, a flat-Earth has never been.
    In other words belief in a biblical flat-earth is not compulsory for Catholics nor is it not a truth. So the debate goes on.

    For me insisting on a flat Earth undermines the 'miracle' called gravity wherein the lord made it possible for man to live on a global Earth, with the ground under all feet on it and the sky above. There is also the science of geodesy practiced for hundreds of years that measures the curve of the Earth over long distances.

    Unfortunately this debate can bring out the worst in people of both sides, a reason to keep clear of it.

     

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #7 on: May 22, 2025, 06:00:27 AM »
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  • Unfortunately this debate can bring out the worst in people of both sides, a reason to keep clear of it.

    I couldn't disagree more.
    Yes the debate gets messy, mostly because of cognitive dissonance and visceral reaction against decades of programming. It is natural to be uncomfortable at first, to the idea that "your whole world is a lie". The powerful emotions that get involved is not a big surprise.

    But it's absolutely worth it. Having a grasp of the REALITY or true nature of our realm is about as foundational as truth gets!
    One should *definitely* look into it, get to the bottom of it, and resolve the question definitively, insofar as it lies within your power.
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    Offline Godefroy

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #8 on: May 22, 2025, 06:28:27 AM »
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  • For me insisting on a flat Earth undermines the 'miracle' called gravity wherein the lord made it possible for man to live on a global Earth, with the ground under all feet on it and the sky above.
    You don't need the 'miracle' of gravity in flat earth. Density and buoyancy explains what we observe perfectly well

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #9 on: May 22, 2025, 06:47:58 AM »
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  • 1. Regarding calling names. In my experience, "Flat Earthers" are more interested in facts, experimentation and logic. Simply put, they don't need to resort to name calling.
    FEs don't usually call names, except occasionally when they lose patience; as they are constantly attacked.

    Let me put it this way:

    If I told you, "I was talking to John this morning, and I called him a brain dead simple moron who should be sterilized for the good of society." You'd be like "OUCH! Did you have to be so brutal?" but then if I had added, "after he tried to convince me the earth was flat". You'd laugh and high-five me. ADMIT IT.

    In other words, it's like punching nαzιs. If you said you punched just about ANYONE ELSE, people would be critical, unsupportive of your violent behavior, and wouldn't get behind you for it. But if you said your assault victim was a nαzι, you could punch him all you like and people would high-five you. It's part of the programming everyone receives today.
    Seriously, there are few other things that are so "open season" according to the modern world, as being Flat Earth. Why?

    As a corollary to this, it means that a FE calling a Globe-believer a name is NOT the same thing as a Globe-believer calling a FE a name. Ever heard of "punching down"? AND YET -- 99 times out of 100, the verbal violence is FROM Globers TOWARDS FEs.
    How can this be, when they have the full support of the mainstream scientific establishment, the whole world, the entire media, etc.? They should be more secure psychologically -- they shouldn't feel so defensive and scared, where they have to lash out and tear down FEs personally all the time. BUT THEY DO. In fact, some of them are quite vile (attacking spouses, children, making slanderous accusations, etc. -- being quite degenerate).

    If the earth were truly a globe, then people would be mildly amused at best at "those weird few" who believe the earth is flat. Why would they waste their time creating a Youtube channel dedicated to bashing flat earthers?

    Does anyone create a channel dedicated to the fact that Elvis is dead, or that politicians ARE NOT space aliens? Of course not. It would be a waste of time.

    In conclusion -- I consider this a pretty serious argument for Flat Earth in itself, even though it doesn't even begin to address the myriad physical evidence. Unfortunately for globe lovers, the physical evidence is MUCH more immediately relevant, convincing, and powerful. So my point, addressed in this post, seldom gets brought up.
    I would like proof that the "globe-tards" (which is a derogatory term that the flat earther's use to talk about globe earthers) on CathInfo are calling flat earthers names.  
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #10 on: May 22, 2025, 07:31:38 AM »
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  • I would like proof that the "globe-tards" (which is a derogatory term that the flat earther's use to talk about globe earthers) on CathInfo are calling flat earthers names. 
    If you were given proof 1000x over, you'd still reply with something like you just did above..

    And you and I both know derogatory terms are thrown at those who profess truth 1 million times more than the other way around...

    Matthew, give us proof Gray isn't a plant. :laugh1::laugh1::laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:


    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #11 on: May 22, 2025, 07:34:56 AM »
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  • But it's absolutely worth it. Having a grasp of the REALITY or true nature of our realm is about as foundational as truth gets!
    It helps with the truth of God's creation and God being front and center. That's for sure!

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #12 on: May 22, 2025, 07:42:34 AM »
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  • If you were given proof 1000x over, you'd still reply with something like you just did above..

    And you and I both know derogatory terms are thrown at those who profess truth 1 million times more than the other way around...

    Matthew, give us proof Gray isn't a plant. :laugh1::laugh1::laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:
    You just changed the direction of the conversation to me personally. Matthew said that the "glob-tards" constantly name call and stuff and that the "flat earthers" do not do such things. I have been reading these conversations for about two years and I don't believe that St Giles or myself have really resorted to name calling, so I just wanted Matthew to show proof of "globe-tards" on CathInfo doing what he just talked about.

    This particular statement had nothing to do with actual sphere vs flat discussion.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Online Gray2023

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #13 on: May 22, 2025, 07:46:07 AM »
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  • Matthew, give us proof Gray isn't a plant. :laugh1::laugh1::laugh1::laugh1::laugh1:
    What kind of plant do you think I might be?  ::)
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: Flat-Earthers Please Explain
    « Reply #14 on: May 22, 2025, 07:47:02 AM »
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  • You just changed the direction of the conversation to me personally. Matthew said that the "glob-tards" constantly name call and stuff and that the "flat earthers" do not do such things. I have been reading these conversations for about two years and I don't believe that St Giles or myself have really resorted to name calling, so I just wanted Matthew to show proof of "globe-tards" on CathInfo doing what he just talked about.

    This particular statement had nothing to do with actual sphere vs flat discussion.
    Nobody cares you haven't resorted to name calling... Who cares? Boy, you take things personally.  I would say thicken your skin up, but you're a woman.

    What proof would you like that the earth is not a globe? Do you personally think it's a globe with planets and space we have not discovered yet?