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Author Topic: Flat Earth Scripture passages  (Read 2715 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Flat Earth Scripture passages
« on: March 16, 2025, 12:18:58 AM »
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  • 2. Who stretchest out the heaven like a pavilion
    5. Who hast founded the earth upon its own bases: it shall not be moved for ever and ever.
    A pavilion is a tent or tabernacle.
    (Psalm 103)

    The Lord hath reigned, he is clothed with beauty: the Lord is clothed with strength, and hath girded himself. For he hath established the world which shall not be moved.
    (Psalms 92:1)

    In the six hundredth year of the life of Noe, in the second month, in the seventeenth day of the month, all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the flood gates of heaven were opened:
    (Genesis 7:11)

    And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day.
    (Josue 10:13)

    I, for one, will not be doing mental gymnastics to interpret this in a modern science, "globe earth" paradigm. I'd have to see some serious evidence for that, before I'd even consider it.
    Globe earth goes with the Big Bang. It is most at home in that paradigm.

    If you're going to admit God created the universe anyhow, there are no downsides to rejecting the globe paradigm.
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    Offline Predestination2

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    Re: Flat Earth Scripture passages
    « Reply #1 on: March 16, 2025, 03:59:27 AM »
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  • Globe earth goes with the Big Bang. It is most at home in that paradigm.
    This. Remember if the earth is flat then there must be intelligent design, a bunch of space dust can’t just randomly conglomerate into a flat plane floating upon a giant ocean with a huge dome above it and waters above that dome. 
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Flat Earth Scripture passages
    « Reply #2 on: March 16, 2025, 11:11:15 AM »
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  • Many other passages of Scripture make little to no sense, if the earth were a globe.

    Foundations of the earth, the ends of the earth, ascending into heaven, etc. A globe has no "ends".

    Also remember how LITTLE THE SCIENTISTS ACTUALLY KNOW. If you believe in the globe right now, you no doubt believe the earth has a molten iron core, with different layers, etc. right? Well you'll be shocked to learn we have barely scratched the surface of our earth, as far as digging goes. What is the diameter of the supposed globe earth? Guess how far we've dug down? EIGHT MILES. That's it.
    And here's the thing -- The scientists were WRONG, EVERY STEP OF THE WAY in terms of temperature and pressure. They don't have a clue.

    Want to know another thing I learned from Flat Earthers? The fact that molten iron has a CURIE POINT which precludes normal magnetic properties. When you heat up metal to a certain temperature, you're not going to get a magnetic field anymore. Given the alleged diameter of the earth, the heat and pressures involved, it's absolutely impossible for that core to be generating the magnetic field we can observe with countless instruments. 

    Long story short, their whole "theory" about the guts of the earth doesn't even work scientifically.
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    Offline Ubi Caritas

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    Re: Flat Earth Scripture passages
    « Reply #3 on: March 16, 2025, 04:45:20 PM »
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  • And there’s the crux of it: there are no downsides to rejecting the globe paradigm. But there are if by so doing you destroy your ethos and cast ill repute onto holy religion. If Flat Earth becomes associated with Catholicism, it is a stumbling block to conversion – how are people to trust you in spiritual things unseen if they can’t trust you in things seen?
     
    If you decide to use scripture to dismiss scientifically verifiable facts, fine, but then you bring scripture into disrepute. For example, the Bible says that the Lord declared, “My spirit shall not remain in man for ever, because he is flesh, and his days shall be a hundred and twenty years” (Gen 3:6). Yet, we have docuмentation of Jeanne Calment living to 122. Instead of rejecting Jeanne’s docuмentation or the Bible, perhaps there is more to this passage?
     
    Why are you willing to believe the Russians dug an 8 mile hole, but when they say they’ve been to space, suddenly you don’t believe them? The bore race and the space race both began in the Cold War – the suspicious mind might surmise that the Soviets agreed that the Americans could have the win in space if the Americans let them have the win with a deep hole. Over 75 countries have satellites in space, and over 600 people from 47 countries claim to have been there, supported by tens of thousands more in logistics, mechanics, communications, etc—but only Russia has a hole anywhere close to 8 miles…and no one’s ever been down it. But you’re going to believe that and reject all the space accounts? The Russians are truth-tellers and everyone else a liar? (minus all the Cosmonaut stuff- the Russians are totally lying there). This is the problem with not establishing ethos – it destroys credibility.
     
    Then you offer science…to disprove science. So, you will believe in the Curie point – would you believe that there are different types of magnetism? Perhaps then the Curie point would not apply—did you look into it? What determines the science you will accept? Only that which aligns with Flat Earth? Science is supposed to get it wrong – that’s why it is a continual process, and why theories are rejected and refined with each new observation and experiment. For all its failure, whether it be barbecuing Yuri Gagarin or the Columbia shuttle disaster, it’s science that eventually put the satellite in space that is allowing me to have rural internet to engage with you even now—that’s what science did.
                                                                            
    If you mangle your ethos with such fallacies, your credibility will slip. If your reasoning can’t be trusted, it will taint anything you promote, from Holy religion to the Resistance position. I entreat you to consider these things. Life is hard enough without making it harder.
     
    I begin to realize though that this might not be a Discussion Forum so much as a place of comfort for the disenfranchised. I think it was a mistake to post here. I wish you all well and that we meet in good cheer in heaven. Of course, I will acknowledge any reply, that is only fair, but I can see that posting here will only disturb people’s peace.



    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Flat Earth Scripture passages
    « Reply #4 on: March 16, 2025, 09:58:44 PM »
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  • It requires mental gymnastics to try to reconcile what is observable and reasonable with FE. If you refuse to perform “mental gymnastics” then it sounds like you refuse to learn and to think, and to use reason. Might as well conclude that in verse 3, the God has feet, and the wind has real wings, probably with feathers (since we’re taking the liberty to draw implications without “mental gymnastics”) and God walks on those wings with His physical feet. Scripture says so, don’t deny it.

    2. Who stretchest out the heaven like a pavilion
      Where does it say “over the flat earth”? Define a pavilion. Is there any limit to how large it can be? It’s a simile, a comparison. How do you expect so much detail to be expressed in artistic verse? And yet, I would argue that there is much meaning there since the latin word for pavilion means both butterfly and tent. Heaven is beautiful and broad like a butterfly’s wings. Given a large globe, heaven will appear stretched out as a tent no matter where you are. If it can stretch out over a flat earth, it can stretch over a globe. Great are God’s works, and so great will be the expanse of His tents.

    You claim the earth is flat, and yet it has mountains, valleys, plains, and basins. Far from flat is it’s appearance. Oh, but you have to look at the big picture to see that as a whole it is flat? Why do you refuse to look at the big picture to see that it is a globe? You only rely on local small scale observation to conclude it is flat, though seeing mountains and even gently rolling hills and plains should tell you that you can’t rely on such a perspective. God does things with perfection, is it impossible for God to create a moon, an earth orbiting giant rock that turns at just the right rate of speed to always face earth the same? Do you put limits on what is possible for God? I would argue that God has so clothed the earth perfectly as a modest woman, whose curves and fundamental features are well hidden.


    5. Who hast founded the earth upon its own bases: it shall not be moved for ever and ever.
    (Psalm 103)
    “Upon its own” to me sounds like a turning inward, a sort of selfishness. It is perfectly compatible with a globe, which curves to rest upon itself, its own bases. The Haydock commentary says  “It is fixed by its own gravity in the center”, and regarding for ever “The established order shall subsist, though the earth may move”.


    The Lord hath reigned, he is clothed with beauty: the Lord is clothed with strength, and hath girded himself. For he hath established the world which shall not be moved.
    (Psalms 92:1)
    According to the Haydock commentary: this could indicate the Church, that it will not fail, and/or the established order of the world will not be disturbed, further saying that this is not a proof that the earth doesn’t turn on its axis daily and orbit the sun. This implies that if the established order of the world is such that the earth does rotate on an axis and orbit the sun, such order will not be changed. I however am also quite open to a globe earth that does rotate and doesn’t orbit, and one that doesn’t rotate or orbit. I was taught that the psalms are the word of Christ and/or the Church. It may be best to try to apply anything in the psalms as much as possible to Christ and the Church.

    And the sun and the moon stood still, till the people revenged themselves of their enemies. Is not this written in the book of the just? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down the space of one day.
    (Josue 10:13)
    The Haydock commentary says that it is immaterial whether the sun turns around the earth, or the contrary. The Hebrews generally supposed that the earth was immovable, and on this idea Josue addressed the sun. So if they thought the earth rotated on an axis, he probably would have told the earth to stand still.  What matters is that the sun didn’t appear to move, and the day was lengthened.

    Want to know another thing I learned from Flat Earthers? The fact that molten iron has a CURIE POINT which precludes normal magnetic properties. When you heat up metal to a certain temperature, you're not going to get a magnetic field anymore. Given the alleged diameter of the earth, the heat and pressures involved, it's absolutely impossible for that core to be generating the magnetic field we can observe with countless instruments.
    How do we know that pressure doesn't affect the curie point? I'm fine with the center of the earth being empty, but hell also doesn't need any open space because only spirits are now there. Physical human bodies are still dust on the surface.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Flat Earth Scripture passages
    « Reply #5 on: March 16, 2025, 10:57:40 PM »
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  • It requires mental gymnastics to try to reconcile what is observable and reasonable with FE. 

    Well, what about what is observable with a ball earth model? Where's the curve? Shouldn't it be observable? Because if the earth is a ball, then there's a curve. Somewhere. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29