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Author Topic: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth  (Read 5424 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
« on: August 20, 2024, 11:33:04 PM »
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  • I hear stuff like this all the time.
    This clip was from Ham Radio Workbench #213 (around 2:54:00)
    The man speaking became a ham in the 70's, so he has a lot of real world experience.
    Funny how his inner scientist didn't get "triggered" by such a mystery. To his credit, he states the TRUTH matter of factly. But unfortunately, he completely fails to follow up and investigate HOW such an impossible thing can happen in this world.

    One should NOT be able to communicate 700 miles using a LINE OF SIGHT frequency like 10 GHz (with 3 Watts of power) -- unless the earth is flat, of course.

    And I would like to point out: no matter HOW MUCH you amplify a signal, catch it in a satellite dish, amplify it thousands of times stronger, etc. -- if you have ZERO signal to begin with, then zero times a billion is still zero. In other words, if the signal went off into outer space due to the "curve" of the "globe earth" -- the signal would be completely absent 700 miles away, or "zero" -- i.e., nothing left to amplify!

    Once again, Flat Earth confirmed.
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #1 on: August 21, 2024, 07:45:57 PM »
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  • I hear stuff like this all the time.
    This clip was from Ham Radio Workbench #213 (around 2:54:00)
    The man speaking became a ham in the 70's, so he has a lot of real world experience.
    Funny how his inner scientist didn't get "triggered" by such a mystery. To his credit, he states the TRUTH matter of factly. But unfortunately, he completely fails to follow up and investigate HOW such an impossible thing can happen in this world.

    One should NOT be able to communicate 700 miles using a LINE OF SIGHT frequency like 10 GHz (with 3 Watts of power) -- unless the earth is flat, of course.

    And I would like to point out: no matter HOW MUCH you amplify a signal, catch it in a satellite dish, amplify it thousands of times stronger, etc. -- if you have ZERO signal to begin with, then zero times a billion is still zero. In other words, if the signal went off into outer space due to the "curve" of the "globe earth" -- the signal would be completely absent 700 miles away, or "zero" -- i.e., nothing left to amplify!

    Once again, Flat Earth confirmed.

    If we were talking a frequency below about 300 mHz (and that's being generous), distant reception (DX) could be explained by E-skip.  E-skip can get out 1000-2000 miles and even more.  There is also tropospheric bending and ducting, but I don't know how high up on the band that continues to be effective, I do know it happens at distances up to 800-900 mhz (I'm going by TV DX reception on the old UHF band which went up to 890 mHz, viz. channel 83), and distances of up to 1000 miles or more have been recorded.  I've picked up TV stations all over North America east of the Rockies from here on the East Coast.  (And with E-skip, you don't even need any special equipment.  I once picked up channel 2 from Casper, Wyoming in my basement using rabbit ears.)

    Knife-edge propagation (where the signal hits the top of a mountain range and is reflected onwards, once, twice, or even more) at 700 miles would really be pushing it, I don't know if that's possible.

    I plead ignorance as to what is experienced above the UHF TV band.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #2 on: August 21, 2024, 08:06:51 PM »
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  • Just ran the numbers.  Even if you had a tower that was 100 feet high, the target would be hidden by 59 miles of curvature, and then if you add in the calculation for max refraction, you still end up with 50 miles hidden behind curvature.

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #3 on: August 21, 2024, 08:56:16 PM »
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  • So if they invented radio on a flat earth; how did they ever discover line of sight, or associate it with distance?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #4 on: August 22, 2024, 06:15:34 AM »
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  • So if they invented radio on a flat earth; how did they ever discover line of sight, or associate it with distance?

    :confused:


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #5 on: August 22, 2024, 11:32:53 AM »
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  • Just ran the numbers.  Even if you had a tower that was 100 feet high, the target would be hidden by 59 miles of curvature, and then if you add in the calculation for max refraction, you still end up with 50 miles hidden behind curvature.

    I pulled up the coverage map of a TV station (WJXT Jacksonville FL) where the signal is divided roughly equally between a water path and over land, and notice that the signal decreases in strength the further out in the Atlantic you get, until about 70-75 miles out, it just drops off the cliff, so to speak.  Over land, you then have terrain considerations, viz. elevations blocking the line of sight, or creating a knife-edge signal as the case might be.  This station broadcasts on over-the-air channel 18 (494-500 mHz), even though it is "channel 4" on one's receiver (PSIP information, a system they devised to allow stations to retain their analog channel numbers from before the transition to digital, it's complicated and was done primarily to allow TV stations to keep their historical channel numbers).



    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #6 on: August 22, 2024, 11:49:01 AM »
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  • I pulled up the coverage map of a TV station (WJXT Jacksonville FL) where the signal is divided roughly equally between a water path and over land, and notice that the signal decreases in strength the further out in the Atlantic you get, until about 70-75 miles out, it just drops off the cliff, so to speak.  Over land, you then have terrain considerations, viz. elevations blocking the line of sight, or creating a knife-edge signal as the case might be.  This station broadcasts on over-the-air channel 18 (494-500 mHz), even though it is "channel 4" on one's receiver (PSIP information, a system they devised to allow stations to retain their analog channel numbers from before the transition to digital, it's complicated and was done primarily to allow TV stations to keep their historical channel numbers).




    Very interesting! Thank you for this.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #7 on: August 22, 2024, 01:25:02 PM »
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  • Very interesting! Thank you for this.
    Gladly.  Knife-edge propagation can do freakish things.  The scenario I described puts the signal over almost-flat land.  In mountainous regions, you can have a viable knife-edge TV signal over 100 miles out.  WLOS in Asheville NC was legendary for having its transmitter atop Mount Pisgah, just shy of 6000 feet ASL (the tower itself is fairly short), and its signal reached locations all the way from southeastern Kentucky to central South Carolina on VHF channel 13.  WMTW in Poland Spring ME had an even larger coverage area from its transmitter atop Mount Washington on VHF channel 8.


    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #8 on: August 22, 2024, 02:46:42 PM »
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  • I hear stuff like this all the time.
    This clip was from Ham Radio Workbench #213 (around 2:54:00)
    The man speaking became a ham in the 70's, so he has a lot of real world experience.
    Funny how his inner scientist didn't get "triggered" by such a mystery. To his credit, he states the TRUTH matter of factly. But unfortunately, he completely fails to follow up and investigate HOW such an impossible thing can happen in this world.

    One should NOT be able to communicate 700 miles using a LINE OF SIGHT frequency like 10 GHz (with 3 Watts of power) -- unless the earth is flat, of course.

    And I would like to point out: no matter HOW MUCH you amplify a signal, catch it in a satellite dish, amplify it thousands of times stronger, etc. -- if you have ZERO signal to begin with, then zero times a billion is still zero. In other words, if the signal went off into outer space due to the "curve" of the "globe earth" -- the signal would be completely absent 700 miles away, or "zero" -- i.e., nothing left to amplify!

    Once again, Flat Earth confirmed.
    The ionosphere can reflect radio waves making them travel beyond the line of sight. However, the effect is not consistent due to the sun activity and magnetism.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #9 on: August 22, 2024, 02:50:10 PM »
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  • The ionosphere can reflect radio waves making them travel beyond the line of sight. However, the effect is not consistent due to the sun activity and magnetism.

    No, what Matthew was referring to is line of sight waves and the "ionosphere" (if you believe it even exists) can allegedly only reflect waves that are below 40MHz.  Matthew was speaking of 10GHz signals.  They made up the ionosphere with zero proof to explain how Marconi was able to send radio signals 2,000+ miles around an alleged globe.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #10 on: August 22, 2024, 02:52:47 PM »
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  • Gladly.  Knife-edge propagation can do freakish things.  The scenario I described puts the signal over almost-flat land.  In mountainous regions, you can have a viable knife-edge TV signal over 100 miles out.  WLOS in Asheville NC was legendary for having its transmitter atop Mount Pisgah, just shy of 6000 feet ASL (the tower itself is fairly short), and its signal reached locations all the way from southeastern Kentucky to central South Carolina on VHF channel 13.  WMTW in Poland Spring ME had an even larger coverage area from its transmitter atop Mount Washington on VHF channel 8.

    In your opinion what do you believe caused the circular pattern with the “drop off”?
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #11 on: August 22, 2024, 03:59:00 PM »
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  • In your opinion what do you believe caused the circular pattern with the “drop off”?

    If you follow the globe-earth paradigm, it would be curvature of the earth.

    If you follow the flat-earth paradigm, it would be the point at which the line of sight from the tower reaches some point beyond which the signal cannot go. Think of a triangle and the vertex of the angle that touches the earth.

    Keep in mind also that TV and radio broadcast signals are "flattened", i.e., they are suppressed at the top of the transmitter --- no use sending a signal straight up into the air, that's just wasted signal --- and "spray out" horizontally.  Think of shooting a cone of water vertically out of a garden hose squirter, then putting your hand an inch or so over the jet, allowing the water then to splatter horizontally in all directions (including all over you!), yet not shoot all the way up in the air.  It's an imperfect analogy but is the best way I can think of, to describe how broadcast signals work.  Another example might be a sprinkler system.  The water shoots out in a flat spray 360 degrees but doesn't shoot straight down, due to the placement of that little deflector on the sprinkler head:



    I'm simply an amateur hobbyist in all of this.  I'll welcome more elegant technical explanations of how broadcast transmitters work.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #12 on: August 22, 2024, 04:22:07 PM »
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  • If you follow the globe-earth paradigm, it would be curvature of the earth.

    If you follow the flat-earth paradigm, it would be the point at which the line of sight from the tower reaches some point beyond which the signal cannot go. Think of a triangle and the vertex of the angle that touches the earth.

    Keep in mind also that TV and radio broadcast signals are "flattened", i.e., they are suppressed at the top of the transmitter --- no use sending a signal straight up into the air, that's just wasted signal --- and "spray out" horizontally.  Think of shooting a cone of water vertically out of a garden hose squirter, then putting your hand an inch or so over the jet, allowing the water then to splatter horizontally in all directions (including all over you!), yet not shoot all the way up in the air.  It's an imperfect analogy but is the best way I can think of, to describe how broadcast signals work.  Another example might be a sprinkler system.  The water shoots out in a flat spray 360 degrees but doesn't shoot straight down, due to the placement of that little deflector on the sprinkler head:



    I'm simply an amateur hobbyist in all of this.  I'll welcome more elegant technical explanations of how broadcast transmitters work.

    It seems to me that if there was nothing to block the signal it would/could continue indefinitely. Does the atmosphere cause the signal to dissipate or does it in any way block it’s transmission? 
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #13 on: August 22, 2024, 04:34:52 PM »
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  • It seems to me that if there was nothing to block the signal it would/could continue indefinitely. Does the atmosphere cause the signal to dissipate or does it in any way block it’s transmission?

    Conditions such as humidity and rain do indeed interfere, also, the signal gets progressively weaker, the further out it is broadcast.  You finally reach a point where there is no signal, also, there is the signal-to-noise ratio, meaning that you may have a marginal signal, but it can't break through the various factors that would interfere with it.

    As far as television is concerned, any signal beyond about 80 miles tops (and that's being generous as well) is basically unwatchable.  In analog broadcasting, the signal is weak and snowy, and in digital broadcasting, you either have the signal or you don't, and it starts "blocking", getting so choppy and intermittent that your receiver can't decode it.  For what little television I do watch, in addition to nearby stations, I have stations 80-90 miles away that may come in late at night, or in the early morning, but beyond that, they're not receivable.  I have high-gain rooftop antennas (Televes brand from Spain, they're excellent) on both of my houses that enable it, again, it's a hobby, not any great love for television itself.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Ham Radio 10 GHz band proves Flat Earth
    « Reply #14 on: August 22, 2024, 06:43:47 PM »
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  • Conditions such as humidity and rain do indeed interfere, also, the signal gets progressively weaker, the further out it is broadcast.  You finally reach a point where there is no signal, also, there is the signal-to-noise ratio, meaning that you may have a marginal signal, but it can't break through the various factors that would interfere with it.

    As far as television is concerned, any signal beyond about 80 miles tops (and that's being generous as well) is basically unwatchable.  In analog broadcasting, the signal is weak and snowy, and in digital broadcasting, you either have the signal or you don't, and it starts "blocking", getting so choppy and intermittent that your receiver can't decode it.  For what little television I do watch, in addition to nearby stations, I have stations 80-90 miles away that may come in late at night, or in the early morning, but beyond that, they're not receivable.  I have high-gain rooftop antennas (Televes brand from Spain, they're excellent) on both of my houses that enable it, again, it's a hobby, not any great love for television itself.

    Thank you.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?