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Author Topic: Fascinating Flat Earth Map  (Read 1857 times)

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Offline aryzia

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Fascinating Flat Earth Map
« on: July 02, 2018, 10:48:14 AM »
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  • Offline happenby

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #1 on: July 02, 2018, 12:41:42 PM »
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  • Not sure what to think of this, but I guess we'll wait for more to develop.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #2 on: July 06, 2018, 06:38:58 AM »
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  • .
    How could flat-earthers be so eager to throw away one of their principal dogmas like that?

    Is flat-earthism all about ignoring the truth, or is it all about making the truth subservient to your agenda?
    .
    How many times has their answer to Antarctica been, "The flat-earth is surrounded by an ice wall!"
    And, "That's why the ocean's water doesn't spill off because the ice wall keeps it in! There is no gravity!"
    "Nobody is allowed into Antarctica by international treaty, so we can't go touch the dome!"
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #3 on: July 06, 2018, 08:39:58 AM »
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  • Flat earthers are a diverse group who agree on one fact.  Earth is not a globe.   

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #4 on: July 08, 2018, 11:47:03 AM »
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  • How could flat-earthers be so eager to throw away one of their principal dogmas like that?

    Unlike yourself, flat earthers hold very few "dogmas".  Everything about the model/map is speculation because flat earthers do not have the scientific apparatus behind them.

    Now, this new map, with some minor alterations, could accommodate nicely the Patristic position that Jerusalem is at the center of the earth.  That actually had been one of my biggest issues with the existing map.  As may Fathers as taught flat earth also held Jerusalem to be at the center.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #5 on: July 09, 2018, 02:24:24 AM »
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  • Unlike yourself, flat earthers hold very few "dogmas".  
    .
    Are you calling me a liar?
    I told you I have observed direct evidence of the earth's curvature first hand.
    Should I deny what I have witnessed just because you think that constitutes "dogma?
    The flat-earth dogma that the earth is "flat" certainly looms large in the discussion.
    And they have no data to support their nonsensical dogmatic claim.
    .
    Quote
    Everything about the model/map is speculation because flat earthers do not have the scientific apparatus behind them.
    .
    Correction: Flat-earthers don't have any science behind them, and they consistently refuse to use any apparatus offered to them.
    .
    Quote
    Now, this new map, with some minor alterations, could accommodate nicely the Patristic position that Jerusalem is at the center of the earth.  That actually had been one of my biggest issues with the existing map.  As may Fathers as taught flat earth also held Jerusalem to be at the center.
    .
    How do you know they were not talking about Jerusalem being the spiritual center of the earth?
    After all, that's where Our Lord was crucified, which is the central event of world history.
    Can you prove they did not mean it that way?
    F
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #6 on: July 09, 2018, 01:08:06 PM »
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  • ..
    How do you know they were not talking about Jerusalem being the spiritual center of the earth?
    After all, that's where Our Lord was crucified, which is the central event of world history.
    Can you prove they did not mean it that way?

    The book of Ezekiel speaks of Jerusalem as in the middle of the earth, and all other parts of the world as set around the holy city.  Throughout the "ages of faith" this was very generally accepted as the direct revelation from the Almighty regarding the earth's form.  St. Jerome, the greatest authority of the early Church upon the Bible, declared, on the strength of this utterance of the prophet, that Jerusalem could be nowhere but at the earth's center; in the ninth century Archbishop Rabanus Maurus reiterated the same argument; in the eleventh century Hugh of St. Victor gave to the doctrine another scriptural demonstration; and Poe Urban, in his great sermon at Clermont urging the Franks to the crusade, declared, "Jerusalem is the middle point of the earth"; in the thirteenth century and ecclesiastical writer much in vogue, the monk Caesarious of Heisterbach declared, "As the heart in the midst of the body, so is Jerusalem situated in the midst of our in habited earth,--so it was that Christ was crucified at the center of the earth."  Dante accepted this view of Jerusalem as a certainty, wedding it to immortal verse: and in the pious book of ascribed to Sir John Mandeville, so widely read in the Middle Ages, it is declared that Jerusalem is at the center of the world, and that a spear standing erect at the Holy Sepulchre casts no shadow at the equinox. 

    Footnotes at the bottom of this page from page 99
    A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom

    ... Ezekiel v 5 and xxxviii 12 The progress of geographical knowledge evidently caused them to be softened down somewhat in our King James's version but the first of them reads in the Vulgate Ista est Hierusalem in medio gentium posui eam et in circuitu ejus terra and the second reads in the Vulgate in media terra and in the Septuagint M Tbt o t f a oy TTJJ TTJJ That the literal centre of the earth was understood see proof in St Jerome Com mentar in Eiekiel lib ii and for general proof see Leopardi Saggio sopra gli errori popolari degli antichi pp 207 208 For Rabanus Maurus see his De Uni verso lib xii cap 4 in Migne tome cxi p 339 For Hugh of St Victor see his De Situ Terrarum cap ii For Dante's belief see Inferno canto xxxiv 112 115 E se or sotto l emisperio giunto Ch 4 opposito a quel che la gran secca Coverchia e sotto il cui colmo consunto Fu l uom che nacque e visse senza pecca For orthodox geography in the Middle Ages see Wright's Essays on Archa ology vol ii chapter on the map of the world in Hereford Cathedral also the rude maps in Cardinal d Ailly's Ymago Mundi also copies of maps of Marino Sanuto and others in Peschel Erdkunde p 210 also Mflnster Fac Simile dell Atlante di Andrea Bianco Venezia 1869 And for discussions of the whole subject see Santarem vol ii p 295 vol iii pp 71 183 184 and elsewhere For a brief summary with citations see Eicken Geschichte etc pp 622 623 For the site of the cross on Calvary as the point where stood the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in Eden at the centre of the earth see various Eastern travellers cited in Tobler but especially the travels of Bishop Arculf in the Holy Land in Wright's Early Travels in Palestine p 8 also Travels of Saewulf ibid p 38 also Sir John Mandeville ibid pp 166 167 For Roger IOQ GEOGRAPHY


    In the thirteenth century, another of the mediæval Church authorities, Cæsar of Heisterbach, declared, "As the heart in the midst of the body, so is Jerusalem situated in the midst of our inhabited earth"; "so it was that Christ was crucified at the center of the earth." Dante accepted this view of Jerusalem as a certainty and wedded it to immortal verse.
    Ezekiel's statement thus became the standard of orthodoxy to early map-makers. The map of the world at Hereford Cathedral, the maps of Andrea Bianco, Marino Sanuto, and a multitude of others fixed this view in men's minds, and doubtless helped during many generations to discourage any scientific statements tending to unbalance this geographical center supposed to be revealed in Scripture.[1]
    Nor did mediæval thinkers rest with this conception. In accordance with the dominant view that physical truth must be sought by theological reasoning, the idea was evolved that not only the site of the cross on Calvary marked the geographical center of the world, but that on this very spot had stood the tree which bore the forbidden fruit in Eden. Thus was geography made to reconcile all parts of the great theologic plan. This doctrine was hailed with joy by multitudes; and we find in the works of mediæval pilgrims to Palestine, again and again, evidence shows belief Jerusalem is the geographical center of the earth.


    For the beliefs of various nations of antiquity that the earth's center was in their most sacred place, see citations from Maspero, Charton, Sayce, and others in Lethaby, Architecture, Mysticism, and Myth, chap. iv. As to the Greeks, we have typical statements in the Eumenides of Æschylus, where the stone on the altar at Delphi is repeatedly called "the earth's navel"—which is precisely the expression used regarding Jerusalem in the Septuagint translation of Ezekiel (see note below). The proof texts on which the mediæval geographers mainly relied as to the form of the earth were Ezekiel, v, 5, and xxxviii, 12. The progress of geographical knowledge evidently caused them to be softened down somewhat in our King James's version; but the first of them reads, in the Vulgate, "Ista est Hierusalem, in medio gentium posui eam et in circuitu ejus terræ", and the second reads, in the Vulgate, "in medio terræ," and in the Septuagint, ἐπὶ τὸν ὸμφαλὸν τῆς γῆς. That the literal center of the earth was understood, see proof in St. Jerome, Commentar. in Ezekiel, lib. ii; and for general proof, see Leopardi, Saggio sopra gli errori popolari degli antichi, pp. 207, 208. For Rabanus Maurus, see his De Universo, lib. xii, cap. 4, in Migne, tome cxi, p. 339. For Hugh of St. Victor, see his De Situ Terrarum, cap. ii. For Dante's belief, see Inferno, canto xxxiv, 112-115:
    "E se' or sotto l'emisperio giunto,
     Ch' è opposito a quel che la gran secca
     Coverchia, e sotto il cui colmo consunto
     Fu l'uom che nacque e visse senza pecca."




    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #7 on: July 11, 2018, 11:10:09 AM »
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  • .
    Who knows what kind of silly nonsense will arise next among flat-earthers? 
    .
    Perhaps a circle of elephants standing on the back of a space turtle? 
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #8 on: July 11, 2018, 06:36:07 PM »
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  • .
    Who knows what kind of silly nonsense will arise next among flat-earthers?
    .
    Perhaps a circle of elephants standing on the back of a space turtle?
    Curve is flat, up is out, down is at an angle, level is curve, water surface isn't flat but curves, people stand upside down and sideways to each other on the surface of a globe as water sticks to the outside of a ball. 
    The doctrine of the pagans demands more faith in false science than flat earth does in God. 

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 05:11:06 AM »
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  • Curve is flat, up is out, down is at an angle, level is curve, water surface isn't flat but curves, people stand upside down and sideways to each other on the surface of a globe as water sticks to the outside of a ball.  
    The doctrine of the pagans demands more faith in false science than flat earth does in God.
    .
    Adding to the already long list of mundane canards and false platitudes, are you. Your obstreperous nescience is palpable.
    .
    Flat-earthers should be forbidden from procreating. They scandalize children (cf. Matt. xviii. 6).
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #10 on: July 15, 2018, 03:40:13 PM »
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  • .
    Adding to the already long list of mundane canards and false platitudes, are you. Your obstreperous nescience is palpable.
    .
    Flat-earthers should be forbidden from procreating. They scandalize children (cf. Matt. xviii. 6).
    Pro birth control pro abortion useful idiots pushing the elite agenda, just like the rest of the globe worshiping bozos out there.  Keep it up Mister Madam and you'll graduate top of the globe--where ever that is. 


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #11 on: July 16, 2018, 01:26:40 PM »
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  • Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #12 on: July 16, 2018, 02:11:50 PM »
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  • New working FE map:

    Has 4 cardinal directions

    Has Jerusalem nearly center

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #13 on: July 16, 2018, 02:23:49 PM »
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  • Sun path, showing the yearly analemma.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Fascinating Flat Earth Map
    « Reply #14 on: July 16, 2018, 02:45:44 PM »
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  • .
    Adding to the already long list of mundane canards and false platitudes, are you. Your obstreperous nescience is palpable.
    .
    Flat-earthers should be forbidden from procreating. They scandalize children (cf. Matt. xviii. 6).

    It seems that you are very concerned with children being scandalized. You do not, however, appear to have the same concern toward the proponents of Godless and pagan modern science. You believe that flat earthers should be forbidden from procreating, presumably so that they cannot teach their children about the flat earth. I have not seen that you believe the same about the teachers of Godless and pagan modern science. You seem to give them a pass, as far as procreation goes.

    What has affected society more, Neil? The flat earth belief.....or Godless and pagan modern science?
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29