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Author Topic: Experienced hams - earth is curved BUT BUT  (Read 2623 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Experienced hams - earth is curved BUT BUT
« on: Today at 01:21:34 PM »
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  • From Ham Radio Workbench episode #250, around 2:23:00 mark.

    They are talking about VHF, UHF, and microwave frequencies going beyond line-of-sight.
    These are line-of-sight frequencies which do NOT bounce off the "ionosphere" according to their model.
    These frequencies should TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY go off into space rather than bounce around, according to their model.

    But experienced hams point out that "not rarely" you get comms from Hawaii to California. Or other 600-700 km comms. That is WAY BEYOND LINE-OF-SIGHT.

    They don't ever put 2 + 2 together, and start to question the Globe model they have been given since childhood.

    It's not just "weird" or "one of those things" -- it DISPROVES THE MODEL. It FALSIFIES the model. Given the model we have been taught, the experimental results they speak about are LITERALLY NOT POSSIBLE.

    You need to go back and question the model when you encounter evidence like this. AS A SCIENTIST.

    You see, I was faced with this and similar evidence. But rather than suffer cognitive dissonance in silence, or willfully dismiss the truth because I didn't like it (or it made me uncomfortable), I looked into flat earth with an open mind. And guess what? Now I'm a "flat earther". I know, that's one of the only unforgivable beliefs these days, similar to r4cist or n4z|, but c'est la vie.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Experienced hams - earth is curved BUT BUT
    « Reply #1 on: Today at 01:45:52 PM »
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  • So, one of the most desperate attempts to explain away some record long range UHF tests conducted by (I think it was) the US Navy was to claim it had something to do with these ridiculous water columns.

    :laugh1:

    There was also a record high bandwidth microwave transmission across the Mediterannean with many miles that should have been hidden by curvature, with the towers about 50 feet high ... and at the water's edge on each side, so they could avoid obstructions or obstacles.  That too had to be perfectly focused line of sight, where they had to line up transmitter and receiver perfectly for this to work.


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Experienced hams - earth is curved BUT BUT
    « Reply #2 on: Today at 03:41:49 PM »
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  • What about tropospheric ducting and sporadic E-skip?

    https://3fs.net.au/tropospheric-ducting/

    https://northpine.com/2020/06/18/tropo-or-e-skip-nows-the-time-to-listen-for-distant-fm-signals/

    Neither of these propagation methods rely upon line of sight.

    Many times during the year, I receive TV stations 300-400 miles away through tropospheric ducting.  (I have a high-performance antenna, the Televes DATBOSS that is designed both for low- and high-VHF as well as UHF.)  Sadly, though, with the sharp reduction in the number of TV stations broadcasting on low-VHF, viz. channels 2 through 6, E-skip is a fairly rare phenomenon these days.  Back in the analog days, I received stations from all across North America, and the beauty of it was, no specialized equipment was really needed.  I've picked up stations on E-skip with just a set of rabbit ears.

    Also, in analog days, the picture was very often smeared or distorted, whereas with the advent of digital TV, you either have the signal or you don't, and a distant signal is just as clear as a local one.

    There is also the phenomenon of knife-edge propagation, where you don't strictly have a line of sight, but the signal reflects off various terrestrial barriers such as ridges and mountains, and ricochets on past them.  I regularly get stations from 80 to 100 miles away using knife-edge propagation, and a handful of them are reliable enough for almost-daily reception.  With tropo and E-skip, it's just a chance phenomenon.  (Tropo can also combine with knife-edge for some very good results.)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Experienced hams - earth is curved BUT BUT
    « Reply #3 on: Today at 04:29:23 PM »
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  • "Troposheric Ducting" is just something else they made up where in every case they simply beg the question that the earth must be a ball, and come up with some theory to explain it.  It's really just a variation on refraction.  Everything I've ever seen about it entails begging the question.  People can hear radio signals that can't bounce off the ionosphere 1000s of miles away.  SINCE WE KNOW THE EARTH IS A GLOBE, then there must be such a thing as tropospheric ducting, aka refraction.  So then if you say that these signals can only go so far if the earth is flat, they say ... tropospheric ducting, which is based on the assumption of globe earth, and therefore entails a completely circular argument.  Earth is flat because we know it's a globe.

    Also, I don't buy the existence of ionosphere bounce either.  They made that up to explain Marconi's signal and some others, but then when based on what they made up about ionosphere bounce there were different types of waves that did not conform to the principles behind their explanation, they had to come up with something else for those.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Experienced hams - earth is curved BUT BUT
    « Reply #4 on: Today at 04:36:24 PM »
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  • Here's one example of an discussion about Marconi's experiment ...
    Quote
    Scientific discovery: At the time of Marconi's experiment, the existence of the ionosphere was not yet fully understood. The transmission was an empirical proof that radio waves could travel beyond the horizon, and scientists later worked to understand the principles of ionospheric reflection. The electrically conducting layer was first named the "E-Layer" by Sir Edward Appleton in 1927, derived from the name "electrical-layer".

    You'll notice the embedded assumption, that the radio waves could travel beyond the "horizon" ... which assumes a ball earth horizon, 100% begging the question.  So then they had to figure out a way to explain this away but without touching the sacrosanct embedded assumption.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Experienced hams - earth is curved BUT BUT
    « Reply #5 on: Today at 04:41:06 PM »
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  • Or this ...

    Quote
    Microwaves travel solely by line-of-sight paths; unlike lower frequency radio waves, they do not travel as ground waves which follow the contour of the Earth, or reflect off the ionosphere (skywaves)

    So there are these magical "ground waves" which [just so happen to] follow [and bend around] the contour of the Earth ... just amazing that the earth tries to darn hard to hide its curvature.

    Then there was the microwave transmission across the Mediterranean, where the globers were in a frenzy since they couldn't explain that one away, so they were claiming that the company that conducted the test must have had 2,000 foot towers, cuz, well, we KNOW the earth is a globe.  I'm sure that if there were 2,000 foot towers on both sides, someone would have spotted them or they would have been logged somewhere in aviation guides.

    They just throw stupidity out there like this, hoping that people won't stop for a second to consider that, 2,000 feet would be twice the height of a single one of the Twin Towers in NYC that fell on 9/11. Yes, I'm sure this company constructed these towers that were twice as tall as each Twin Tower, just to conduct an experiment about whether they could transmit high-def data over several hundred miles.