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Author Topic: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis  (Read 19400 times)

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2022, 05:28:33 PM »
Can you finish the passage for us here? Did the 'sons of God' come to stand before the Lord as men after death?  We just need to verify context of what's being said.
[1] There was a man in the land of Hus, whose name was Job, and that man was simple and upright, and fearing God, and avoiding evil. [2] And there were born to him seven sons and three daughters. [3] And his possession was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a family exceeding great: and this man was great among all the people of the east. [4] And his sons went, and made a feast by houses every one in his day. And sending they called their three sisters to eat and drink with them. [5] And when the days of their feasting were gone about, Job sent to them, and sanctified them: and rising up early offered h0Ɩ0cαųsts for every one of them. For he said: Lest perhaps my sons have sinned, and have blessed God in their hearts. So did Job all days.
[1] "Hus": The land of Hus was a part of Edom; as appears from Lam. 4. 21.-- Ibid.
[1] "Simple": That is, innocent, sincere, and without guile.
[4] "And made a feast by houses": That is, each made a feast in his own house and had his day, inviting the others, and their sisters.
[5] "Blessed": For greater horror of the very thought of blasphemy, the scripture both here and ver. 11, and in the following chapter, ver. 5 and 9, uses the word bless to signify its contrary.
[6] Now on a certain day when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them. [7] And the Lord said to him: Whence comest thou? And he answered and said: I have gone round about the earth, and walked through it. [8] And the Lord said to him: Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil? [9] And Satan answering, said: Doth Job fear God in vain? [10] Hast not thou made a fence for him, and his house, and all his substance round about, blessed the works of his hands, and his possession hath increased on the earth?
[6] "The sons of God": The angels.-- Ibid. Satan also, etc. This passage represents to us in a figure, accommodated to the ways and understandings of men, 1. The restless endeavours of Satan against the servants of God; 2. That he can do nothing without God's permission; 3. That God doth not permit him to tempt them above their strength: but assists them by his divine grace in such manner, that the vain efforts of the enemy only serve to illustrate their virtue and increase their merit.
[11] But stretch forth thy hand a little, and touch all that he hath, and see if he blesseth thee not to thy face. [12] Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand: only put not forth thy hand upon his person. And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord. [13] Now upon a certain day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in the house of their eldest brother, [14] There came a messenger to Job, and said: The oxen were ploughing, and the asses feeding beside them, [15] And the Sabeans rushed in, and took all away, and slew the servants with the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell thee.
[16] And while he was yet speaking, another came, and said: The fire of God fell from heaven, and striking the sheep and the servants, hath consumed them, and I alone have escaped to tell thee. [17] And while he also was yet speaking, there came another, and said: The Chaldeans made three troops, and have fallen upon the camels, and taken them, moreover they have slain the servants with the sword, and I alone have escaped to tell thee. [18] He was yet speaking, and behold another came in, and said: Thy sons and daughters were eating and drinking wine in the house of their elder brother: [19] A violent wind came on a sudden from the side of the desert, and shook the four corners of the house, and it fell upon thy children and they are dead, and I alone have escaped to tell thee. [20] Then Job rose up, and rent his garments, and having shaven his head fell down upon the ground and worshipped,
[21] And said: Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away: as it hath pleased the Lord so is it done: blessed be the name of the Lord. [22] In all these things Job sinned not by his lips, nor spoke he any foolish thing against God.

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #76 on: August 19, 2022, 05:36:04 PM »

I'm still on the fence on whether "sons of God" refers to the demons exclusively, or also the sons of Seth though. As both were involved in the generation of these giants.
I see no contradiction. When we are told the "sons of God" took as wives the "daughters of man" it may have been prevalent among Seth's progeny.


Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #77 on: August 19, 2022, 05:59:06 PM »
You might say these angels aka "sons of God" -- kept not their principality, but forsook their own habitation and seeing that the daughters of men were "fair" (beautiful) they took them as wives.

Actually that is in God's Word:
Jude 1:6
[6] And the angels who kept not their principality, but forsook their own habitation, he hath reserved under darkness in everlasting chains, unto the judgment of the great day.



Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #78 on: August 19, 2022, 06:55:49 PM »
Cera, the "sons of God" either means Seth's descendants or fallen angels.  Not both.  The "daughters of man" are not Seth's line but Cain's.  We know this for sure.


Ladislaus, great points you made in multiple posts.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #79 on: August 19, 2022, 07:02:39 PM »

Quote
Again, as I noted earlier in the thread, it's possible that these "sons of God' were some other unknown creatures that are referred to as angels by the correlation of this term "sons of God" with Job's definition. Yet, we also see individuals who are not pure spirits referred to as "angels" all over Scripture.
On a totally unrelated and absolute sidetrack topic, when we're talking about the possibility of angels who are not pure spirits it makes me think how perfectly Tolkien captured such a nature in his Elves, who while being involved in the earth and helping men and fighting evil, also had an otherworldly feeling to them, as if they knew of their higher purpose.