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Author Topic: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis  (Read 21785 times)

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Offline Tradman

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #60 on: August 19, 2022, 12:32:51 PM »
Quote from: DigitalLogos on August 19, 2022, 11:54:51 AM
The error above by seculars and atheists only makes sense to them because they don't believe in first principles and think higher things (reason) come from lower things. When in reality, despite their paganism, the ancients were far more insightful than modern men. It was apparent to ancients that lightning was it's own thing that was governed by something else. And this logic is a seed of the ancient wisdom of Adam and the truth about the one God.
This is my understanding because this stuff always crops up in those philosophies opposed to the Church.  It's possible Fathers said things about it that I missed, but I can't think of anything that supports it. 
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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #61 on: August 19, 2022, 01:42:03 PM »
Quote from: Tradman on August 19, 2022, 12:32:51 PM
This is my understanding because this stuff always crops up in those philosophies opposed to the Church.  It's possible Fathers said things about it that I missed, but I can't think of anything that supports it.
I've been reading some of the Divine Institutes by Lactantius here and there, and he touches on this same theme in his refutation of paganism and pagan ideas. It might be worth reading.
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Offline Cera

Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2022, 02:38:21 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 18, 2022, 09:12:39 PM
  So, it appears that the "sons of god" does mean actual angels.
"Now on a certain day when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them."
 [Job 1:6]
"And it came to pass, when on a certain day the sons of God came, and stood before the Lord, and Satan came among them, and stood in his sight,"
 [Job 2:1]

Might they be fallen angles?
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Offline Tradman

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2022, 02:42:28 PM »
Quote from: Cera on August 19, 2022, 02:38:21 PM
"Now on a certain day when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them."
 [Job 1:6]
"And it came to pass, when on a certain day the sons of God came, and stood before the Lord, and Satan came among them, and stood in his sight,"
 [Job 2:1]

Might they be fallen angles?
Can you finish the passage for us here? Did the 'sons of God' come to stand before the Lord as men after death?  We just need to verify context of what's being said.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2022, 03:30:56 PM »

Quote
And this also would explain how they (lower angels) could fall in "time" as opposed to the angels who, being PURE spirit, had to decide to be either for or against God at the first instant of their creation. 
Right, it makes sense that lower angels do not have the intellect and purity of knowledge that the higher angels do.  This is why lucifer and his followers made their decision, once, and were damned forever.  They could rationalize their decision in an instant and either choose God or themselves - forever.  It also explains why St Paul tells us that our fight is not against "flesh and blood" but against the "principalities and powers" (both angelic choirs, mid-tier) who rule the world.  The angels and archangels would be the ones that "fell" in time.  A simple angel, of the lowest tier, is WAY more powerful and intelligent than any man ever born.  Just like any man is way more intelligent than any animal.
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