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Author Topic: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis  (Read 19912 times)

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2022, 10:01:43 AM »
If these angels were merely manipulating matter (vs. somehow taking on real material bodies), the notion of "lust" wouldn't even factor in, as lust requires the interaction between the matter and the spirit, where the material could cause a reaction in the immaterial (generally the lower, sensible nature) ... unless somehow theirs was a purely intellectual "lust" of some kind, vs. the normal human lust caused by concupiscence in the lower nature.
Scripture doesn't actually say anything about "lust" though, just that these women were fair and that they took them as wives.

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The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose ... Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown. [Genesis 6:2,4]


And given Pope St. Clement's exegesis, he supposes that they took human natures upon themselves, which, if I'm reading correctly here was derived from covetousness, which can be purely intellectual, with lust being a form of covetousness.


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having assumed these forms, they convicted as covetous those who stole them, and changed themselves into the nature of men, in order that, living holily, and showing the possibility of so living, they might subject the ungrateful to punishment, yet having become in all respects men, they also partook of human lust, and being brought under its subjection they fell into cohabitation with women;

So it, at least based upon Pope St. Clement, doesn't really support that these sons of God were themselves of a hybrid angelic-corporeal nature. But theur fall came once they subjected themselves to a corporeal form, not unlike what the angels in Scripture have done, that they gave into the passions associated with that form.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2022, 10:08:40 AM »
Scripture doesn't actually say anything about "lust" though, just that these women were fair and that they took them as wives.

True, but it does clearly imply that they were attracted to this women by their fairness enough to mate with them.

Good reading of Pope St. Clement there.  So they were initially motivated to assume bodies by some kind of covetousness .. and then it later turned to lust.


Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2022, 10:32:44 AM »
True, but it does clearly imply that they were attracted to this women by their fairness enough to mate with them.

Good reading of Pope St. Clement there.  So they were initially motivated to assume bodies by some kind of covetousness .. and then it later turned to lust.
The thing I still don't get is how if these were angels, then they would already have seen the Beatific Vision, right? Therefore, how could they ever fall? 

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their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. [Matt. 18:10]

Unless they are some other form of spiritual being that are called angels in a broad sense just like how some Prophets, Saints and even Bishops are called "angels"?

Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #33 on: August 18, 2022, 10:50:28 AM »
The second half of S2 E2 of Ancient Aliens deals a lot with the interbreeding of "aliens" (what they call the sons of God) with human women, right in the vein of what we referenced earlier of recollections of these events in mythology and Genesis. A form of genetic manipulation. They speak about the non-sɛҳuąƖ methods of procreation, such as IVF, which is yet another potential means of explaining the apparent disparity of angelic natures mating with humans.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/1xxt6qfVHEEQ/

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #34 on: August 18, 2022, 10:59:16 AM »
The thing I still don't get is how if these were angels, then they would already have seen the Beatific Vision, right? Therefore, how could they ever fall?

Not sure.  But the regular/traditional angels fell also.