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Author Topic: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis  (Read 3458 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

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Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2022, 10:01:43 AM »
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  • If these angels were merely manipulating matter (vs. somehow taking on real material bodies), the notion of "lust" wouldn't even factor in, as lust requires the interaction between the matter and the spirit, where the material could cause a reaction in the immaterial (generally the lower, sensible nature) ... unless somehow theirs was a purely intellectual "lust" of some kind, vs. the normal human lust caused by concupiscence in the lower nature.
    Scripture doesn't actually say anything about "lust" though, just that these women were fair and that they took them as wives.

    Quote
    The sons of God seeing the daughters of men, that they were fair, took to themselves wives of all which they chose ... Now giants were upon the earth in those days. For after the sons of God went in to the daughters of men, and they brought forth children, these are the mighty men of old, men of renown. [Genesis 6:2,4]


    And given Pope St. Clement's exegesis, he supposes that they took human natures upon themselves, which, if I'm reading correctly here was derived from covetousness, which can be purely intellectual, with lust being a form of covetousness.


    Quote
    having assumed these forms, they convicted as covetous those who stole them, and changed themselves into the nature of men, in order that, living holily, and showing the possibility of so living, they might subject the ungrateful to punishment, yet having become in all respects men, they also partook of human lust, and being brought under its subjection they fell into cohabitation with women;

    So it, at least based upon Pope St. Clement, doesn't really support that these sons of God were themselves of a hybrid angelic-corporeal nature. But theur fall came once they subjected themselves to a corporeal form, not unlike what the angels in Scripture have done, that they gave into the passions associated with that form.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #31 on: August 18, 2022, 10:08:40 AM »
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  • Scripture doesn't actually say anything about "lust" though, just that these women were fair and that they took them as wives.

    True, but it does clearly imply that they were attracted to this women by their fairness enough to mate with them.

    Good reading of Pope St. Clement there.  So they were initially motivated to assume bodies by some kind of covetousness .. and then it later turned to lust.


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #32 on: August 18, 2022, 10:32:44 AM »
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  • True, but it does clearly imply that they were attracted to this women by their fairness enough to mate with them.

    Good reading of Pope St. Clement there.  So they were initially motivated to assume bodies by some kind of covetousness .. and then it later turned to lust.
    The thing I still don't get is how if these were angels, then they would already have seen the Beatific Vision, right? Therefore, how could they ever fall? 

    Quote
    their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. [Matt. 18:10]

    Unless they are some other form of spiritual being that are called angels in a broad sense just like how some Prophets, Saints and even Bishops are called "angels"?
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #33 on: August 18, 2022, 10:50:28 AM »
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  • The second half of S2 E2 of Ancient Aliens deals a lot with the interbreeding of "aliens" (what they call the sons of God) with human women, right in the vein of what we referenced earlier of recollections of these events in mythology and Genesis. A form of genetic manipulation. They speak about the non-sɛҳuąƖ methods of procreation, such as IVF, which is yet another potential means of explaining the apparent disparity of angelic natures mating with humans.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/1xxt6qfVHEEQ/
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #34 on: August 18, 2022, 10:59:16 AM »
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  • The thing I still don't get is how if these were angels, then they would already have seen the Beatific Vision, right? Therefore, how could they ever fall?

    Not sure.  But the regular/traditional angels fell also.


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #35 on: August 18, 2022, 11:10:06 AM »
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  • Not sure.  But the regular/traditional angels fell also.
    Right. But that was prior to the creation of the world. These fell after, so, presumably, if they are traditional angels as the Fathers cited seem to presume, then how can they fall if they already saw the Beatific Vision?

    That leads me to the opinion that they are not Heavenly Minds, in the sense of the Areopagite and Scholastics, but something else and merely called "angels" by the Fathers because of the  association of "sons of God" with "angels". And therefore the Enochian name of "Watchers" is deemed more appropriate as a sort of office that these creatures possessed. Or, it's as St. Augustine believes, and they are simply the sons of Seth, who, given their generational proximity to Adam, would still be pure and resplendent.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #36 on: August 18, 2022, 02:15:42 PM »
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  • A few other possible explanations…1) Scripture says that angels “in heaven” see the Beatific Vision.  Maybe there are angels that have never been in heaven?

    2) I remember reading somewhere that as different/advanced as a human is to an animal, or as an animal is to a plant…this is how advanced each of the 9 choirs of angels are to each other.  So, it’s possible that some angels are ALWAYS in heaven (ie Seraphim/Cherubim) and some are NEVER there (until judgement day, because their job is to serve the world/humanity). 

    An example of the latter, is I’ve heard that the angels here on earth did not know that Our Lady was to give birth to Christ until it happened.  Those angels who “brought tidings of great joy” to the Shepherds on Christmas we’re either angels from heaven or were earthly angels who had to be told, themselves, from heaven, of the news.

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #37 on: August 18, 2022, 02:26:02 PM »
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  • A few other possible explanations…1) Scripture says that angels “in heaven” see the Beatific Vision.  Maybe there are angels that have never been in heaven?

    2) I remember reading somewhere that as different/advanced as a human is to an animal, or as an animal is to a plant…this is how advanced each of the 9 choirs of angels are to each other.  So, it’s possible that some angels are ALWAYS in heaven (ie Seraphim/Cherubim) and some are NEVER there (until judgement day, because their job is to serve the world/humanity). 

    An example of the latter, is I’ve heard that the angels here on earth did not know that Our Lady was to give birth to Christ until it happened.  Those angels who “brought tidings of great joy” to the Shepherds on Christmas we’re either angels from heaven or were earthly angels who had to be told, themselves, from heaven, of the news.
    This has become my understanding. When I heard it I was surprised to find out that some angels in service to man apparently await the fullness of their place in heaven because of their mission on earth. Can't remember where I read this.  Do you have sources?  


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #38 on: August 18, 2022, 03:56:38 PM »
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  • This has become my understanding. When I heard it I was surprised to find out that some angels in service to man apparently await the fullness of their place in heaven because of their mission on earth. Can't remember where I read this.  Do you have sources? 
    St. Thomas talks about it in the Summa:

    Quote
    Or else he is not speaking of all the angels; but only of such as sinned, who, in the opinion of some, belonged to the inferior orders. But there is nothing to hinder us from saying that the higher angels, as having an exalted and universal power over all corporeal things, were created in the highest place of the corporeal creature; while the other angels, as having more restricted powers, were created among the inferior bodies.

    https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.I.Q61.A4.C

    As for whether or not they have to merit their place in heaven, St. Thomas appears to make a distinction between those angels which have attained beatification and those who have yet to attain it.

    Quote
    On the contrary, Augustine says (Gen ad lit. xi) that there is in the holy angels that nature which cannot sin. Therefore the holy angels cannot sin.

    I answer that, The beatified angels cannot sin. The reason for this is, because their beatitude consists in seeing God through His essence. Now, God’s essence is the very essence of goodness. Consequently the angel beholding God is disposed towards God in the same way as anyone else not seeing God is to the common form of goodness. Now it is impossible for any man either to will or to do anything except aiming at what is good; or for him to wish to turn away from good precisely as such. Therefore the beatified angel can neither will nor act, except as aiming towards God. Now whoever wills or acts in this manner cannot sin. Consequently the beatified angel cannot sin.

    https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.I.Q62.A8.SC

    And before this he makes such a distinction, as there are the "blessed angels" who possess a natural predilection toward the Good, as all do, but then there are the "holy angels" (above) who possess that knowledge beyond their own natural abilities, which is the Beatific Vision.

    Quote
    So, then, it remains to be said, that, as regards this first beatitude, which the angel could procure by his natural power, he was created already blessed. Because the angel does not acquire such beatitude by any progressive action, as man does, but, as was observed above (Q. 58, AA. 3, 4), is straightway in possession thereof, owing to his natural dignity. But the angels did not have from the beginning of their creation that ultimate beatitude which is beyond the power of nature; because such beatitude is no part of their nature, but its end; and consequently they ought not to have it immediately from the beginning.

    https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.I.Q62.A1.C

    Further on, St. Thomas appears to contradict the notion of angelic beings, such as the demons, partaking in carnal sins, but it harkens back to what Lad and I were discussing regarding whether the covetousness (by means of envy) that these "sons of God" had toward human women, therefore sinning intellectually and falling from that.

    Quote
    The demons do not delight in the obscenities of the sins of the flesh, as if they themselves were disposed to carnal pleasures: it is wholly through envy that they take pleasure in all sorts of human sins, so far as these are hindrances to a man’s good.

    https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.I.Q63.A2.Rep1
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #39 on: August 18, 2022, 04:14:35 PM »
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  • St. Thomas talks about it in the Summa:

    As for whether or not they have to merit their place in heaven, St. Thomas appears to make a distinction between those angels which have attained beatification and those who have yet to attain it.

    And before this he makes such a distinction, as there are the "blessed angels" who possess a natural predilection toward the Good, as all do, but then there are the "holy angels" (above) who possess that knowledge beyond their own natural abilities, which is the Beatific Vision.

    Further on, St. Thomas appears to contradict the notion of angelic beings, such as the demons, partaking in carnal sins, but it harkens back to what Lad and I were discussing regarding whether the covetousness (by means of envy) that these "sons of God" had toward human women, therefore sinning intellectually and falling from that.
    I'm not sure there's a difference between the "holy angels" which is Augustine's term for them, and "beatified angels" which is the term applied to them by St. Thomas.  In other words, none sinned. The distinction is that they are angels who maintained their holiness as opposed to those who didn't.  I'm not suggesting angels merit heaven either, because they were created already blessed and maintained that through their trial, however, some willingly work to help men for love of God and possibly gain extra glory when the time comes?  

    As for the fallen angels who "sinned with women", not even that is possible since, Thomas says, "The demons do not delight in the obscenities of the sins of the flesh, as if they themselves were disposed to carnal pleasures."

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #40 on: August 18, 2022, 04:21:35 PM »
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  • We have examples in Scripture where good angels took human form.  a) the Angel and Tobias, b) the 2 angels who came to see Lot in Sodom/Gomorrah, c) the Angel Gabriel to Our Lady, d) the 2 Angels at the Tomb of Christ on Easter, etc etc. 


    I think God allowed many different things in the pre-Flood days than post-Flood.  We know he gave men super-long lifetimes of 100s of years, and (presumably) more strength and intelligence.  (Probably why God gave them agriculture and manual labor tasks - because they needed the preoccupation of work to stay busy.)  We also know that pre-Flood men didn't drink (alcohol wasn't invented) nor did they eat animal flesh.  So why couldn't angels act differently as well?

    Post flood, men's lives were greatly shortened, they ate animal flesh and drank alcohol because of their loss of strength.  And angels?  They were, according to Enoch (and repeated by St Peter and St Jude in Scripture) chained "in darkness", as a punishment for their sins, until the judgement.  Scripture does not say they were chained IN HELL, but "in darkness" (meaning... they are chained somewhere on earth?)  That's how I take it.

    1.  It explains why all the elites go down to Antarctica - to see their demon gods.  A protestant writer analyzed where Enoch described the "mountains underground" where the demons were chained.  Enoch described the geography where he was taken to see this underground prison.  He described the land having 3 mountains all in a row, with some other earth features.  This protestant found only 1 place on earth where such a description matches...Antarctica.  If true, does this explain a lot!

    2.  Demons being chained underground also explains the Apocalypse and CERN.  Because in Apoc ch9, with the 5th trumpet, it describes the "bottomless pit" being opened, the king of which is named, in greek, Apollyon.  Now in greek, Apollyon means "destruction".  And outside of the CERN scientific headquarters is a huge statue of the hindu god, Shiva, who is the god of...destruction.  (Coincidence, i'm sure).

    CERN is also located in a place in Roman times called "Appolliacuм" (there's that destruction word again and another coincidence) and it was known to be a "gateway to the underworld"CERN is said to be using its particle machine, among many other things, to create black holes in order to enter other dimensions.  Black holes are called by scientists as "bottomless pits" of gravity. (another coincidence?)

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/313922-cern-collider-hadron-higgs/
    https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/cern-looking-for-god-particle-or-opening-portals-of-hell/
    I think you are on to something Pax.

    Remember the occult ritual at CERN which included a "staged human sacrifice"?
    CERN PR people said some people "just got carried away."
    Only CERN employees are allowed into the facility, so evidently CERN staff got carried away.
    ‘Human sacrifice’ staged at Cern, home of the God Particle

    https://www.eyeopeningtruth.com/cern-human-sacrifice-to-shiva-follow-up/


    A human sacrifice has been staged in the grounds of the European Organisation for Nuclear Research, the home of the God Particle.
    A video circulating online shows hooded figures apparently engaging in a ritual, staged under a huge statue of a Hindu deity, at the end of which a woman is stabbed.
    But the footage appears to have been recorded as part of a prank by scientists at Europe’s top physics lab, which serves as the home of the Lagre Hadron Collider. The identity and motives of those behind the video hasn’t yet been discovered.
    In the footage itself, multiple people are shown wearing long, flowing black robes – and one appears to have hiking boots on underneath. They are depicted walking around, before a woman moves onto the floor and is apparently stabbed.


    As that happens, the person who is supposedly recording the video appears to react – firing out expletives and apparently running away, which causes the camera to move away from the scene before it is cut off.
    The ceremony took place under the large states of the Hindu deity Shiva, which permanently stands at the complex. In both the video and real life, it is lit from below – which means that a huge shadow is cast across the building behind.
    The Shiva statue was a “gift from India to celebrate its association with Cern”, according to the institution’s website.
    “This deity was chosen by the Indian government because of a metaphor that was drawn between the cosmic dance of the Nataraj and the modern study of the ‘cosmic dance’ of subatomic particles,” the organisation says on a website unrelated to the prank. “India is one of CERN’s observer states, along with the USA, Russia and Japan.
    A Cern spokesperson confirmed that the video had been filmed there, but said that it had been made without permission or knowledge. Cern said that it doesn’t “condone this type of spoof” because it can “give rise to misunderstandings about the scientific nature of our work”.
    It’s far from the first time that scientific work has been associated with the occult or the mystical. Because of the highly-specialised – and often terrifying – work that goes on at Cern, it has become a haven of speculation for conspiracy theorists and anxious people.
    Many have suggested that the Large Hadron Collider could bring about a black hole in the Earth, or that something is going on there that would allow people to access new forms of power that would be wielded against the Earth. Others still have said that the work might open a portal to another dimension – an apparent extrapolation from the fact that the work going on there might allow scientists to test theories about the presence of other dimensions.
    Others have claimed that Cern’s work is meant to prove that God doesn’t exist, another claim that the institution has been forced to rebut on its website.
    “People from all over the world work together harmoniously at CERN, representing all regions, religions and cultures,” an FAQ page says. “CERN exists to understand the mystery of nature for the benefit of humankind.
    “Scientists at CERN use the world’s largest and most complex scientific instruments to study the basic constituents of matter – the fundamental particles. Particles are made to collide together at close to the speed of light. This process gives the physicists clues about how the particles interact, and provides insights into the fundamental laws of nature.”
    The campus has a range of security measures, ensuring that everyone on the grounds is either an official scientist or a visitor – and those involved in the ceremony appear to have had their ID checked. Cern hasn’t said who took part in the prank, but the woman at least does appear to be identifiable in the footage.
    “People from all over the world work together harmoniously at CERN, representing all regions, religions and cultures,” an FAQ page says. “CERN exists to understand the mystery of nature for the benefit of humankind.
    Many of those people come from around the world to the site, to partake in scientific work or to speak with people who are doing so. A Cern spokesperson appeared to blame such people, saying that “some of them let their humour go too far”.


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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #41 on: August 18, 2022, 04:38:43 PM »
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  • I'm not sure there's a difference between the "holy angels" which is Augustine's term for them, and "beatified angels" which is the term applied to them by St. Thomas.  In other words, none sinned. The distinction is that they are angels who maintained their holiness as opposed to those who didn't.  I'm not suggesting angels merit heaven either, because they were created already blessed and maintained that through their trial, however, some willingly work to help men for love of God and possibly gain extra glory when the time comes? 
    I recall a +Ripperger conference (probably referencing St. Thomas) where he mentioned that at the first few moments of their creation, the angels were given a choice of whether or not they will accept their mission (such as Guardian angels). Those that fell are the ones who rejected it, through pride and envy, and those who accepted were given the beatific vision which can only come through charity.

    Given that angels do not need to know things through discursive reasoning (https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~ST.I.Q58.A3.SC), like men, there is no reason to believe that they would have to complete their mission before attaining beatitude. As by focusing at it they come to immediate and complete understanding of an object (contingent upon their capacity). Therefore, by accepting, say, to become my guardian angel, they are already assenting entirely to the end of that mission; and therefore, even if I fail to attain salvation, they will not have failed in their mission because they did everything in their power pertaining to it. If that makes sense.

    So the only thing I could see happening here when it comes to merit is that they may receive more glory in heaven, but they can't really lose beatitude once they've accepted their mission. Therefore, this idea that the Watchers, as angelic minds, were given a mission but then turned away from it, doesn't really make sense to me.

    As for the fallen angels who "sinned with women", not even that is possible since, Thomas says, "The demons do not delight in the obscenities of the sins of the flesh, as if they themselves were disposed to carnal pleasures."
    Yeah, evidence here is pointing right back to the "sons of God" being either the sons of Seth, or something else entirely.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #42 on: August 18, 2022, 04:46:27 PM »
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  • 1.  It explains why all the elites go down to Antarctica - to see their demon gods.  A protestant writer analyzed where Enoch described the "mountains underground" where the demons were chained.  Enoch described the geography where he was taken to see this underground prison. 
    Yes, numerous elites have been to Antarctica. If you place an object on a table to represent the North Pole, and walk around the table in a circle, your hypothetical magnet would continue to point toward the "north pole."

    Which means if you use your imaginary compass to figure out south -- that would be the direction continually pointing away from the object on the table, in a circle. In FE theory, the North Pole is at the center of the circle of the earth and the Ice Rim surrounding the circle of the earth is Antartica.

    Interestingly, all the constallations revolve around the North Star.

    This contracdicts globe theory which says the earth is spinning on its axis, also spinning around the sun, also spinning around in the galaxy. If that were true, we wouldn't be seeing the same stars revolving around the North Star, we'd be seeing different galaxies.

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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #43 on: August 18, 2022, 04:57:35 PM »
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  • I have not read the Book of Enoch.
    I found this synopsis:

     
    Since the translation of the Book of Enoch from the ancient texts discovered in Ethiopia in 1768, it has created a stir in the history of mankind that has been told for years. The Book of Enoch tells the story of the Fallen Angels called the Nephilims or the Anunnaki, it is attributed to Enoch, the great-grandfather of Noah.
    It is widely accepted that several copies of the Book of Enoch were discovered in 1948 among the Dead Sea Scrolls, ancient Jєωιѕн and Hebrew religious manuscripts. It was discovered in seaside caves near an ancient settlement called Qumran. It is believed there are stories that have great similarities to Ancient Sumer.
    The book consists of five quite distinct major sections:
    1. The one which with the evil deeds of the Fallen Angels or Nephilims, also known as ‘the Watchers’ with Earthlings.
    2. The Parables which explain the Judgment of The Fallen Angel Watchers and the Great deluge as punishment for the evil works of The Fallen Angels;
    3. The Book Of Luminaries which contains accurate Astronomical data on the motions of the Sun, Moon, and Stars including the calculation of the lunar year of 364 days and why an additional year must be added after 4 years;
    4. The Book of Visions on the past and future of Human destiny under the oppressive system of Divine Kings;
    5. A final Apocalypse in which the righteous will be delivered from the wicked by the Son of Man or Messiah in the era after the Flood.

    Enoch was the great great grandfather of Noah, the seventh generation of humans after Adam. Because of his rightfulness, he was chosen by God to do his bidding and deliver his words, particularly after the Earth became corrupt due to the irresponsible deeds of a superior order of angels with striking human appearance, also referred to as “The Watchers.”
    Enoch was the messenger of God, and the one to receive his knowledgeable words and spread them across the land. In the end, he was taken by God into his kingdom, thus escaping his earthly demise that would sooner or later be upon him.
    “After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters. Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years. Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death: ‘He could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God’.” [Hebrews 11:5]


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    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Enoch, Church Fathers and the Giants of Genesis
    « Reply #44 on: August 18, 2022, 05:25:35 PM »
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  • Yes, numerous elites have been to Antarctica. If you place an object on a table to represent the North Pole, and walk around the table in a circle, your hypothetical magnet would continue to point toward the "north pole."

    Which means if you use your imaginary compass to figure out south -- that would be the direction continually pointing away from the object on the table, in a circle. In FE theory, the North Pole is at the center of the circle of the earth and the Ice Rim surrounding the circle of the earth is Antartica.

    Interestingly, all the constallations revolve around the North Star.

    This contracdicts globe theory which says the earth is spinning on its axis, also spinning around the sun, also spinning around in the galaxy. If that were true, we wouldn't be seeing the same stars revolving around the North Star, we'd be seeing different galaxies.


    According to the model of the universe used by modern science, the motion of the earth is too subtle to make any noticeable change in the constellations, and we move much too slowly around the galaxy to notice any changes. Supposedly it takes 225-250 million years to make one revolution around the galaxy.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"