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Traditional Catholic Faith => Fighting Errors in the Modern World => The Earth God Made - Flat Earth, Geocentrism => Topic started by: Tradplorable on September 07, 2017, 10:41:04 AM

Title: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Tradplorable on September 07, 2017, 10:41:04 AM
This thread is for Neil Obstat, who cannot seem to scientifically differentiate between terrestrial bodies and celestial ones, as taught by Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Bible.

The earth is NOT a celestial body. It does NOT exist in the heavens, nor in the Firmament. The heavens and the Firmament are ABOVE the terre, the land, the EARTH.

The sun, moon, and stars are celestial bodies and exist in the heavens and move within the Firmament.

To conclude, as Neil does, that the earth must be like the moon, is a very grave ERROR.

The Bible is extremely SPECIFIC about this:

"All flesh is not the same flesh: but one is the flesh of men, another of beasts, another of birds, another of fishes. And there are bodies celestial, and bodies terrestrial: but, one is the glory of the celestial, and another of the terrestrial. One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, and another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory. " I Cor. 15:39-41
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Tradplorable on September 07, 2017, 10:47:53 AM
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iTqTrRFUEqk/V09IpQbXdyI/AAAAAAAABJQ/f_EfuNKEyWo_BbY7YA7iZDxRgJ7LTOKbwCLcB/s1600/enclosed2.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: happenby on September 07, 2017, 10:49:49 AM
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iTqTrRFUEqk/V09IpQbXdyI/AAAAAAAABJQ/f_EfuNKEyWo_BbY7YA7iZDxRgJ7LTOKbwCLcB/s1600/enclosed2.jpg)
Odd for ball earthers that this picture is found in Bibles and not the NASA version of the universe.
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 07, 2017, 12:28:38 PM
Odd for ball earthers that this picture is found in Bibles and not the NASA version of the universe.

We have the source :incense:; they have sorcery (http://www.desismileys.com/smileys/desismileys_6825.gif) (http://www.desismileys.com/).  
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 08, 2017, 11:54:55 AM
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iTqTrRFUEqk/V09IpQbXdyI/AAAAAAAABJQ/f_EfuNKEyWo_BbY7YA7iZDxRgJ7LTOKbwCLcB/s1600/enclosed2.jpg)
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I'm so impressed you're able to provide a real photo of your "flat earth" that isn't CGI! Thank you!!
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But seriously, for sane readers who might be wondering why we keep allowing flat-earthers their "safe space" here on CathInfo.................
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(https://s16-us2.ixquick.com/cgi-bin/serveimage?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F60%2F81%2F14%2F608114cc53edf74ad1ad62c486ecc3df--political-humor-political-cartoons.jpg&sp=91713eed0c1e968f14626d4213022d11)               
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Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Tradplorable on September 08, 2017, 12:56:23 PM
How strange that Neil has no response to the Scripture that clearly supplies the difference between the earth and moon, when he claimed the earth *must* be like the moon. Hilarious. No rebuttal at all.

Whattsa matter, Neil? Cat got your tongue? Scrambling for a way to refute the Word of Our Lord Jesus Christ?
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 08, 2017, 01:27:55 PM
How strange that Neil has no response to the Scripture that clearly supplies the difference between the earth and moon, when he claimed the earth *must* be like the moon. Hilarious. No rebuttal at all.

Whattsa matter, Neil? Cat got your tongue? Scrambling for a way to refute the Word of Our Lord Jesus Christ?
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When you learn how to read and understand, maybe we can talk.
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Our Lord never described the shape of the earth, and all you have to do is look to see for yourself.
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For example, every time we see a full moon we know that the earth is not "flat." That is, if we think about what we're seeing.
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Same goes for Scripture, if you want to read into what's there what you want to believe, then you can re-make it into your own liking.
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But there is nothing whatsoever in the Bible that demands of us to ignore what we can see with our own eyes in the sky.
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Now run off to your safe place where the truth won't offend you anymore.
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Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 08, 2017, 03:34:54 PM
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When you learn how to read and understand, maybe we can talk.
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Our Lord never described the shape of the earth, and all you have to do is look to see for yourself.
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For example, every time we see a full moon we know that the earth is not "flat." That is, if we think about what we're seeing.
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Same goes for Scripture, if you want to read into what's there what you want to believe, then you can re-make it into your own liking.
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But there is nothing whatsoever in the Bible that demands of us to ignore what we can see with our own eyes in the sky.
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Now run off to your safe place where the truth won't offend you anymore.
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Genesis in the Holy Bible clearly describes the flat earth.
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 08, 2017, 03:49:29 PM
Genesis in the Holy Bible clearly describes the flat earth.
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Wrong, again. It does no such thing, and it makes no mention of the shape of the earth.

You guys can't read, apparently. Is someone reading for you? Your mother?  :baby:
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Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Tradplorable on September 09, 2017, 09:14:57 AM

For example, every time we see a full moon we know that the earth is not "flat." That is, if we think about what we're seeing.

Yet another post where you make your false assumption, your false conflation, your false equivalency of the earth and moon.
Yet another post where you studiously IGNORE the Scripture from First Corinthians where Our Lord teaches you the difference between terrestrial and celestial bodies.
You do not answer because you HAVE no answer.
You stand in willful defiance and rejection of Scripture every time is is given to you.
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 13, 2017, 09:03:33 PM
Yet another post where you make your false assumption, your false conflation, your false equivalency of the earth and moon.
Yet another post where you studiously IGNORE the Scripture from First Corinthians where Our Lord teaches you the difference between terrestrial and celestial bodies.
You do not answer because you HAVE no answer.
You stand in willful defiance and rejection of Scripture every time is is given to you.
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You want Scripture? I give you Scripture:
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Modern man is prone to sneer at philosophy and deride the very thing that could be of great help to him in raising his consciousness to a higher level of awareness and appreciation of God's creation, that is, it could help him make of his soul a better, more virtuous being, which could endure all eternity. Alternatively, he could ignore all that and just be stuck in a material rut of ignorance, as if a brute animal. This is in fact what flat-earthers do when they refuse to observe and think about the phases of the moon which God has provided for their edification every day of the year.
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It has been said that the great project of the Old Testament was preparing ancient man for the arrival of Our Lord, and the contemplation of theology, but far too many people in those days strove to keep their minds on mundane things, and to a large degree, not much has changed in that regard for many alive today. 
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85% of Jews are atheists.
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In ancient times the upper atmosphere was not something that could be experienced first hand. The X-15 was a later development.
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Even before the X-15, however, the Challoner Bible commentary gave us what the mind of the Church understands "a firmament" to mean.
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What does Scripture say about the firmament?
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Genesis 1:6 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=6#x)
 And God said: Let there be a
firmament made amidst the waters: and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:7 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=7#x)
 And God made a
firmament, and divided the waters that were under the firmament, from those that were above the firmament, and it was so.
Genesis 1:8 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=8#x)
 And God called the
firmament, Heaven; and the evening and morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:14 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=14#x)
 And God said: Let there be lights made in the
firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years:
Genesis 1:15 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=15#x)
 To shine in the
firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth. And it was so done.
Genesis 1:17 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=17#x)
 And he set them in the
firmament of heaven to shine upon the earth.
Genesis 1:20 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=1&ch=1&l=20#x)
 God also said: Let the waters bring forth the creeping creature having life, and the fowl that may fly over the earth under the
firmament of heaven.
3 Kings (1 Kings) 8:43 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=11&ch=8&l=43#x)
 Then hear thou in heaven, in the
firmament of thy dwelling place, and do all those things, for which that stranger shall call upon thee: that all the people of the earth may learn to fear thy name, as do thy people Israel, and may prove that thy name is called upon on this house, which I have built.
3 Kings (1 Kings) 8:49 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=11&ch=8&l=49#x)
 Then hear thou in heaven, in the
firmament of thy throne, their prayers, and their supplications, and do judgment for them:
Psalms 17:3 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=17&l=3#x)
 The Lord is my
firmament, my refuge, and my deliverer. My God is my helper, and in him will I put my trust. My protector and the horn of my salvation, and my support.
Psalms 18:2 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=18&l=2#x)
 The heavens shew forth the glory of God, and the
firmament declareth the work of his hands.
Psalms 24:14 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=24&l=14#x)
 The Lord is a
firmament to them that fear him: and his covenant shall be made manifest to them.
Psalms 70:3 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=70&l=3#x)
 Be thou unto me a God, a protector, and a place of strength: that thou mayst make me safe. For thou art my
firmament and my refuge.
Psalms 71:16 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=71&l=16#x)
 And there shall be a
firmament on the earth on the tops of mountains, above Libanus shall the fruit thereof be exalted: and they of the city shall flourish like the grass of the earth.
Psalms 150:1 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=150&l=1#x)
 Praise ye the Lord in his holy places: praise ye him in the
firmament of his power.
Ecclesiasticus 43:1 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=26&ch=43&l=1#x)
 The
firmament on high is his beauty, the beauty of heaven with its glorious shew.
Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 1:22 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=31&ch=1&l=22#x)
 And over the heads of the living creatures was the likeness of the
firmament, as the appearance of crystal terrible to behold, and stretched out over their heads above.
Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 1:23 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=31&ch=1&l=23#x)
 And under the
firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other, every one with two wings covered his body, and the other was covered in like manner.
Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 1:25 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=31&ch=1&l=25#x)
 For when a voice came from above the
firmament, that was over their heads, they stood, and let down their wings.
Ezechiel (Ezeckiel) 1:26 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=31&ch=1&l=26#x)
 And above the
firmament that was over their heads, was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of the sapphire stone, and upon the likeness of the throne, was a likeness as of the appearance of a man above upon it.

 01
21 (http://www.drbo.org/cgi-bin/s?q=firmament&b=drb&t=0&p=40)
23 verses found.

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We should be able to agree that heaven is an example of a non-material reality. Therefore, the "firmament of heaven," being not entirely unlike some aspect or property "of heaven," as Scripture literally says, is not necessarily a physically material reality.
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For example, the north pole, the equator, the Prime Meridian and Mean Sea Level are examples of immaterial realities. Likewise, elevation above MSL, the spring equinox, and the first quarter phase of the moon are immaterial realities. These are examples of things that have no weight, no chemical composition, no alkalinity, no hardness, no transparency, no temperature and no inertia, which are immaterial properties. These are things not found in Scripture, but they are things that cannot be picked up and carried across the room. And they are not made of glass or some other hard material.
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How many of these quotes refer to a "firmament" that is not necessarily of MATERIAL composition?





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How many of these quotes refer to a "firmament" that is perhaps of IMMATERIAL composition?
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(Answer: ALL of them.)
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 13, 2017, 09:11:55 PM
The Bible commentary of Bishop Challoner explains "a firmament."
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[6] "A firmament": By this name is here understood the whole space between the earth, and the highest stars. The lower part of which divideth the waters that are upon the earth, from those that are above in the clouds.
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When given the option, the Church chose to apply a meaning to "a firmament" that is not a material substance.
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Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Geremia on September 13, 2017, 10:33:10 PM
St. Hildegard's view (from GWW vol. 2 (https://isidore.co/calibre/browse/book/4276) p. 456):
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: cassini on September 14, 2017, 05:05:56 AM

"All flesh is not the same flesh: but one is the flesh of men, another of beasts, another of birds, another of fishes. And there are bodies celestial, and bodies terrestrial: but, one is the glory of the celestial, and another of the terrestrial. One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, and another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory. " I Cor. 15:39-41

Correct, the Earth is not a celestial body.

Totally ignored by flat-earthism, indeed denied by flat-earthers, is that God's global earth includes what I consider the ongoing concursus (the influx of divine causation upon secondary causes) of what we call gravity, a concursus inherent in the above scriptural passage.

Call this ongoing concursus what you like, but it results in that every man on earth, no matter where they are on global earth, has the sky above (HEAVEN) and the earth below them (INSIDE OF WHICH IS HELL, FURTHEST PLACE FROM HEAVEN), a feat that no man on earth is capable of repeating on a smaller scale without using super-glue. We know the moon, a celestial body as the above describes, is a globe. We can see its surface with our own eyes and more so with powerful telescopes. Top, middle and bottom consists of rock, rocks and dust. We can see that these rocks at the bottom do not fall off the planet, demonstrating this concursus 'gravity' necessary to keep things that way. God's concursus also keeps the sun and stars of the universe spinning in such a manner that for thousands of years a beam of sun-light passes through the same tiny hole of a building on Earth during the winter solstice.

Imagine Newton's version of 'gravity,' with its endless perturbations, achieving such positional perfection over thousands of years?

Flat-earthism would deny God this 'gravitational' concursus, the ability to create a global earth upon which everything on earth is terrestrial, and everything above is celestial as the Bible advises us. No, they deny this divine concursus and promote a creation based on mere human reasoning and a conspiracy theories that insult Catholicism and then try to convince all it is supported by the Bible, a dogma that all Catholics should believe..
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Tradplorable on September 14, 2017, 07:37:45 AM
Correct, the Earth is not a celestial body.

Totally ignored by flat-earthism, indeed denied by flat-earthers, is that God's global earth includes what I consider the ongoing concursus (the influx of divine causation upon secondary causes) of what we call gravity, a concursus inherent in the above scriptural passage.
What an outrageous presumption to make!
You complain about those of us Catholics who read the Bible literally, yet you "assume" gravity with no evidence for it whatsoever, just so that *you* can adhere to (pun, intended) your globe earth model.
Think of it: you acknowledge that earth is NOT a celestial body, yet you perform some imaginary mental gymnastics by inventing gravity so that you can maintain this non-celestial body is a ball. It's a breathtaking lapse of logic. Especially when one considers Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
The flat earth model - Heaven above, waters, Firmament, plane of earth, hell below, waters of the Great Deep, in order - is the simplest, is Biblical, and requires no gravity!
(http://testingtheglobe.com/images/EnclosedEarth.jpg)
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: cassini on September 14, 2017, 11:21:43 AM
What an outrageous presumption to make!
You complain about those of us Catholics who read the Bible literally, yet you "assume" gravity with no evidence for it whatsoever, just so that *you* can adhere to (pun, intended) your globe earth model.
Think of it: you acknowledge that earth is NOT a celestial body, yet you perform some imaginary mental gymnastics by inventing gravity so that you can maintain this non-celestial body is a ball. It's a breathtaking lapse of logic. Especially when one considers Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
The flat earth model - Heaven above, waters, Firmament, plane of earth, hell below, waters of the Great Deep, in order - is the simplest, is Biblical, and requires no gravity!

What is it about this flat-earthism VIRUS that dominates the human brain.

If I let a cup fall from my hand it falls to the ground.
The cups NEVER float, fall upwards or sideways, always downwards. We HUMANS CALL the cause of this falling GRAVITY.

Now you flat earthers can deny this 'gravity' exists, but for me and the rest of us it does.

Your pathetic attempts to defend a flat earth involves TOTALLY IGNORING the essence of my post and those of others that credits GOD with this CAUSE whatever it is.

It is like debating with programmed zombies.
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Meg on September 14, 2017, 11:35:46 AM
What is it about this flat-earthism VIRUS that dominates the human brain.

If I let a cup fall from my hand it falls to the ground.
The cups NEVER float, fall upwards or sideways, always downwards. We HUMANS CALL the cause of this falling GRAVITY.

Now you flat earthers can deny this 'gravity' exists, but for me and the rest of us it does.

Your pathetic attempts to defend a flat earth involves TOTALLY IGNORING the essence of my post and those of others that credits GOD with this CAUSE whatever it is.

It is like debating with programmed zombies.

We can see with our own eyes that the earth is not a ball. There's no curve, even when we stand on a high viewpoint. No curve at all. 

And Scripture says that that there are waters above the firmament, and that the stars are in the firmament. The Ancient Hebrews believed in a flat earth, based on Sacred Scripture. How did your beloved Giovanni Cassini view Sacred Scripture, in this regard? Would Cassini's work have ever gained momentum if not for the Enlightenment and French Revolution? 
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Geremia on September 14, 2017, 12:00:20 PM
"All flesh is not the same flesh: but one is the flesh of men, another of beasts, another of birds, another of fishes. And there are bodies celestial, and bodies terrestrial: but, one is the glory of the celestial, and another of the terrestrial. One is the glory of the sun, another the glory of the moon, and another the glory of the stars. For star differeth from star in glory. " I Cor. 15:39-41 (http://drbo.org/x/d?b=drl&bk=53&ch=15&l=39-#x)
Read St. Thomas Aquinas's commentary on this (https://aquinas.cc/201/205/3485):
Quote
there are bodies celestial, as the sun and moon and so on, and there are bodies terrestrial, as fire, water and so on.

Again, by celestial bodies can be understood contemplatives: our commonwealth is in heaven (Phil 3:20); by the terrestrial the actives, who are occupied with earthly things. Hence it is said to Martha: you are concerned about many things (Luke 10:41).

Furthermore, by the sun can be understood Christ: but for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise (Mal 4:2); by the moon, the Blessed Virgin: fair as the moon (Song 6:10); by the stars mutually situated, the other saints: the stars from their courses (Judg 5:20).
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: happenby on September 14, 2017, 12:23:15 PM
Catholic monk from the 6th century arguing against the pagan notion that earth is a sphere. 

"What then can be more absurd than the Pagan doctrine that the earth is in the |xvii middle of the universe? Were it in the middle, there must be something below it as well as above it; but there is nothing below it, since we learn from Genesis that God made heaven and earth, and nothing else beyond these. Here then the Pagans are at war with divine Scripture; but, not content with this, they are at war also with common sense itself and the very laws of nature, declaring, as they do, that the earth is a central sphere, and that there are Antipodes, who must be standing head-downward and on whom the rain must fall up." Introduction, Christian Topography, Cosmas Indiocopleustes   
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Tradplorable on September 14, 2017, 01:35:31 PM
Read St. Thomas Aquinas's commentary on this (https://aquinas.cc/201/205/3485):
There you have it, even St. Thomas Aquinas says earth is NOT a celestial body. Awesome.
If earth is not a celestial body, then it is not a ball. Therefore, the entire globalist model of creation (the "solar system") is in ERROR, even if you try to switch places with the earth and sun as in Sungenis/cassini's GC/HC hybrid.
The earth is NOT a ball.
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: cassini on September 14, 2017, 01:42:40 PM
We can see with our own eyes that the earth is not a ball. There's no curve, even when we stand on a high viewpoint. No curve at all.

And Scripture says that that there are waters above the firmament, and that the stars are in the firmament. The Ancient Hebrews believed in a flat earth, based on Sacred Scripture. How did your beloved Giovanni Cassini view Sacred Scripture, in this regard? Would Cassini's work have ever gained momentum if not for the Enlightenment and French Revolution?

Oh Meg, oh Meg, how you have been infected by this flat-Earth virus. God made the world so big that no little man or woman, looking even from the highest point can see its curvature. Only if one is about 50,000 feet high will the curvature be pronounced enough to see.
 
 What is all this water here or there got to do with a flat earth or a global Earth. A Global Earth has these same waters above as a flat earth could have. So stop thinking and posting that a flat-earth is the only interpretation of waters above. Nor does it matter WHO once thought the earth was flat, thinking it is and insisting it is does not make it so.
 
 And please do not try to paste Giovanni Domenico Cassini (1625-1712 with the same brush as the heliocentrists Newton and the Freemasons. Cassini was God's astronomer, for God never leaves us ignorant. Cassini was a loyal son of the Catholic Church. He had, we read, the charity and kindness of a saint. His respect for his contemporaries and their work was exemplary, and the modesty of his own reached ‘miraculous proportions.’ His humility caused him to avoid adulation and he presented his findings with the least fuss and sought no personal honours. He, and his son and grandson were the LAST OF THE GREAT CATHOLIC GEOCENTRISTS. 

Voltare hated Cassini for he falsified the astronomy of Kepler used by Newton to fool the world. Cassini was Rome's surveyor before going to King Louis XIV and providing the astronomy for the priests who converted the far east. He falsified Newton's shape for the earth in the field of goedesy, a science none of you flat-earthers know anything about.He compiled a history of astronomy up to his time. In it he wrote:
 
 "Aristorus, contemporary of Eudoxius (390-337BC), and disciple like him of Plato, used Astronomy to perfect the sciences of physics and geography. By the observations of the astronomers he determined the figure and the size of the Earth. He demonstrated that it was spherical by the roundness of its shadow, which appears on the disc of the Moon during eclipses, and by the unequal height of the meridians that differ as one approaches or goes away from the Poles. ..."
 
 ."Under the reign of this wise Emperor Augustus (63B-14AD), astronomy began to take on a new look. For Ptolemy, who could be called the restorer of this science, took advantage of the lights of those who had gone before, and joined to his own particular observations those of Hipparcus, of Timocharis and of the Babylonians. He made of these a complete body of science of the stars in an excellent book entitled ‘The Great Composition’, which includes theory and tables charting the movements of the Sun, of the Moon, of the other planets, and of the fixed stars. Geography owes as much to him as astronomy for he also made a description of the earthly globe, much more ample and exact than all the others that had been made up until then; having reduced the distances of all the places on Earth to degrees and to minutes, following the method that had been decided upon by Possidonius, he disposed these same places on the geographic tables according to the difference of their longitude and latitude, in the same way that he had following Hipparcus arranged the fixed stars...."
It seems the GLOBE OF EARTH has been around in astronomy for a long long time.  
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Tradplorable on September 14, 2017, 01:47:02 PM
What is it about this flat-earthism VIRUS that dominates the human brain.

If I let a cup fall from my hand it falls to the ground.
The cups NEVER float, fall upwards or sideways, always downwards. We HUMANS CALL the cause of this falling GRAVITY.


It is like debating with programmed zombies.
The cup falls from your hand because it weighs more than the air around it, duh. This concept is known as mass/density.
If it were a balloon filled with a light gas (e.g. helium) it will be carried aloft. This is because it weighs less than the air around it. This concept is known as buoyancy.
Debating this with you is like debating with a jellyfish.
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Meg on September 14, 2017, 01:53:51 PM
Oh Meg, oh Meg, how you have been infected by this flat-Earth virus. God made the world so big that no little man or woman, looking even from the highest point can see its curvature. Only if one is about 50,000 feet high will the curvature be pronounced enough to see.
 
 What is all this water here or there got to do with a flat earth or a global Earth. A Global Earth has these same waters above as a flat earth could have. So stop thinking and posting that a flat-earth is the only interpretation of waters above. Nor does it matter WHO once thought the earth was flat, thinking it is and insisting it is does not make it so.
 
 And please do not try to paste Giovanni Domenico Cassini (1625-1712 with the same brush as the heliocentrists Newton and the Freemasons. Cassini was God's astronomer, for God never leaves us ignorant. Cassini was a loyal son of the Catholic Church. He had, we read, the charity and kindness of a saint. His respect for his contemporaries and their work was exemplary, and the modesty of his own reached ‘miraculous proportions.’ His humility caused him to avoid adulation and he presented his findings with the least fuss and sought no personal honours. He, and his son and grandson were the LAST OF THE GREAT CATHOLIC GEOCENTRISTS.

Voltare hated Cassini for he falsified the astronomy of Kepler used by Newton to fool the world. Cassini was Rome's surveyor before going to King Louis XIV and providing the astronomy for the priests who converted the far east. He falsified Newton's shape for the earth in the field of goedesy, a science none of you flat-earthers know anything about.He compiled a history of astronomy up to his time. In it he wrote:

 "Aristorus, contemporary of Eudoxius (390-337BC), and disciple like him of Plato, used Astronomy to perfect the sciences of physics and geography. By the observations of the astronomers he determined the figure and the size of the Earth. He demonstrated that it was spherical by the roundness of its shadow, which appears on the disc of the Moon during eclipses, and by the unequal height of the meridians that differ as one approaches or goes away from the Poles. ..."
 
 ."Under the reign of this wise Emperor Augustus (63B-14AD), astronomy began to take on a new look. For Ptolemy, who could be called the restorer of this science, took advantage of the lights of those who had gone before, and joined to his own particular observations those of Hipparcus, of Timocharis and of the Babylonians. He made of these a complete body of science of the stars in an excellent book entitled ‘The Great Composition’, which includes theory and tables charting the movements of the Sun, of the Moon, of the other planets, and of the fixed stars. Geography owes as much to him as astronomy for he also made a description of the earthly globe, much more ample and exact than all the others that had been made up until then; having reduced the distances of all the places on Earth to degrees and to minutes, following the method that had been decided upon by Possidonius, he disposed these same places on the geographic tables according to the difference of their longitude and latitude, in the same way that he had following Hipparcus arranged the fixed stars...."
It seems the GLOBE OF EARTH has been around in astronomy for a long long time.  

I did not try to paint Cassini with the same brush as Newton and freemasons. And you did not  directly answer my question about Cassini's work as gaining momentum because of the Enlightenment and French revolution. Do you deny that his work gained momentum because the Enlightenment and French revolution?

Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: cassini on September 14, 2017, 03:35:48 PM
The cup falls from your hand because it weighs more than the air around it, duh. This concept is known as mass/density.
If it were a balloon filled with a light gas (e.g. helium) it will be carried aloft. This is because it weighs less than the air around it. This concept is known as buoyancy.
Debating this with you is like debating with a jellyfish.

Oh, is that why you give jellyfish replies?

What is it about you guys and the term GRAVITY.. You first deny it and then offer a CAUSE for it. Oh by the way, your MASS/density is pure Newtonian theory for gravity..

Now answer this jellyfish.  If I drop a cup and a feather, both land at the same time. Where does Mass/Density come in here?
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: happenby on September 14, 2017, 03:49:18 PM
What is it about this flat-earthism VIRUS that dominates the human brain.

If I let a cup fall from my hand it falls to the ground.
The cups NEVER float, fall upwards or sideways, always downwards. We HUMANS CALL the cause of this falling GRAVITY.

Now you flat earthers can deny this 'gravity' exists, but for me and the rest of us it does.

Your pathetic attempts to defend a flat earth involves TOTALLY IGNORING the essence of my post and those of others that credits GOD with this CAUSE whatever it is.

It is like debating with programmed zombies.
Ha ha, this shows the level of incomprehension we are dealing with. Because stuff falls to earth that means there's gravity. Lol!
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: cassini on September 14, 2017, 03:51:07 PM
I did not try to paint Cassini with the same brush as Newton and freemasons. And you did not  directly answer my question about Cassini's work as gaining momentum because of the Enlightenment and French revolution. Do you deny that his work gained momentum because the Enlightenment and French revolution?

Domenico Cassini's anti-heliocentric work has been totally ignored since the enlightenment and the French revolution. Worse than that, he is now portrayed as a hiding heliopcentrist.
 
‘Cassini was renowned for his skills as an observational astronomer, which led him to many important discoveries. He was also extremely conservative in his approach to the more theoretical aspects of astronomy, and this conservatism led him frequently to propound the incorrect view. He refused to accept the Copernican cosmological model and rejected the concept of a finite speed of light (although its proof was demonstrated by Olaus Rōmer using Cassini’s own data; it is likely that Cassini considered the possibility even prior to Rōmer’s work). He also opposed a theory of universal gravitation and insisted (despite critical disagreement by Christian Huygens and Isaac Newton) that the Earth was flattened at the equator rather than at the poles. Despite these errors in judgement Cassini earned a well-deserved reputation as one of the finest astronomers of his day.[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)

[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1)David Abbot: Astronomers, The Biographical Dictionary of Scientists, 1984, pp.34-35.

‘For instance, there was the case of the Italian astronomer Giovanni Domenico Cassini. When Cassini was appointed lecturer in astronomy at the University of Bologna, in 1650, he found that he had to teach the Ptolemaic system, though by then it was also permissible to teach Copernicanism as a hypothesis. Not, of course, that Cassini had any doubts about the truth of the matter. He was an expert observer, and it was he who made the first reasonably accurate measurement of the distance between the Earth and the Sun. The fact that men such as Cassini could talk openly about the movement of the Earth – and in Italy, less than ten years after Galileo’s death – is an indication that the scientific influence of the Church was very much on the downgrade.’[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)

[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1)Patrick Moore: Watchers of the Stars, Michael Joseph Books, 1974, p.125.

‘Giovanni Cassini was an astronomer of the 17th century. He found several new moons going around Saturn while working for his immovable pope. By combining the data from St Peter’s meridian with his own telescopic observations he was able to predict accurate orbits for Mars and Venus. He had used mathematical techniques that assumed the planets and the Earth were moving in elliptical orbits about the sun. But he never dared to give an opinion on the Earth’s immobility. Perhaps he didn’t want to have to make a public confession of his errors.’[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)

[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1)Robert Lomas: The Invisible College, Headline, 2002, p.19.

BULL. Note Lomas, the author of above piece of revisionism, has Cassini working for ‘his immovable pope,’. Then he has Cassini moving the Earth with ‘elliptical orbits’ if we don’t mind. 
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 14, 2017, 03:51:43 PM
If I drop a cup and a feather, both land at the same time.
?
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: happenby on September 14, 2017, 04:13:54 PM
No because the feather will be affected by resistance to the air. However, if feathers are bundled to weigh the same as the cup, they will fall at the same time. Weight depends on density, buoyancy and air resistance. 
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Truth is Eternal on September 14, 2017, 05:09:06 PM
Domenico Cassini's anti-heliocentric work has been totally ignored since the enlightenment and the French revolution. Worse than that, he is now portrayed as a hiding heliopcentrist.
 
‘Cassini was renowned for his skills as an observational astronomer, which led him to many important discoveries. He was also extremely conservative in his approach to the more theoretical aspects of astronomy, and this conservatism led him frequently to propound the incorrect view. He refused to accept the Copernican cosmological model and rejected the concept of a finite speed of light (although its proof was demonstrated by Olaus Rōmer using Cassini’s own data; it is likely that Cassini considered the possibility even prior to Rōmer’s work). He also opposed a theory of universal gravitation and insisted (despite critical disagreement by Christian Huygens and Isaac Newton) that the Earth was flattened at the equator rather than at the poles. Despite these errors in judgement Cassini earned a well-deserved reputation as one of the finest astronomers of his day.[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)

[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1)David Abbot: Astronomers, The Biographical Dictionary of Scientists, 1984, pp.34-35.

‘For instance, there was the case of the Italian astronomer Giovanni Domenico Cassini. When Cassini was appointed lecturer in astronomy at the University of Bologna, in 1650, he found that he had to teach the Ptolemaic system, though by then it was also permissible to teach Copernicanism as a hypothesis. Not, of course, that Cassini had any doubts about the truth of the matter. He was an expert observer, and it was he who made the first reasonably accurate measurement of the distance between the Earth and the Sun. The fact that men such as Cassini could talk openly about the movement of the Earth – and in Italy, less than ten years after Galileo’s death – is an indication that the scientific influence of the Church was very much on the downgrade.’[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)

[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1)Patrick Moore: Watchers of the Stars, Michael Joseph Books, 1974, p.125.

‘Giovanni Cassini was an astronomer of the 17th century. He found several new moons going around Saturn while working for his immovable pope. By combining the data from St Peter’s meridian with his own telescopic observations he was able to predict accurate orbits for Mars and Venus. He had used mathematical techniques that assumed the planets and the Earth were moving in elliptical orbits about the sun. But he never dared to give an opinion on the Earth’s immobility. Perhaps he didn’t want to have to make a public confession of his errors.’[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftn1)

[1] (http://file:///C:/Users/JamesRedmond/Desktop/T.E.%20The%20Book.doc#_ftnref1)Robert Lomas: The Invisible College, Headline, 2002, p.19.

BULL. Note Lomas, the author of above piece of revisionism, has Cassini working for ‘his immovable pope,’. Then he has Cassini moving the Earth with ‘elliptical orbits’ if we don’t mind.
The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government "space agencies" show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.

The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.

The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.


Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 14, 2017, 05:24:47 PM
Quote
The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government "space agencies" show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.

The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.

The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.
Oh, crap dude, just make this knee-biting feldercarb your signature; it saves everyone time and effort.
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: happenby on September 14, 2017, 05:44:11 PM
They have no argument
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Tradplorable on September 14, 2017, 07:45:09 PM
Now answer this jellyfish.  If I drop a cup and a feather, both land at the same time. Where does Mass/Density come in here?
NOT in the air. DUH.
That only happens in a vacuum.
https://youtu.be/E43-CfukEgs
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: cassini on September 15, 2017, 04:14:47 AM
No because the feather will be affected by resistance to the air. However, if feathers are bundled to weigh the same as the cup, they will fall at the same time. Weight depends on density, buoyancy and air resistance.

In a vacuum, free from resistance, both objects fall at same rate. Amazing. Ask Galileo, he got some things right

The concept of the constant acceleration for different objects due to gravity (at the same height and ignoring atmospheric effects) is usually attributed to Galileo. In reality, Galileo merely popularized the concept with his Tower of Pisa Thought Experiment (What happens if you drop a cannon ball and a musket ball from the top of the Tower of Pisa?).
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: DZ PLEASE on September 15, 2017, 04:19:02 AM
NOT in the air. DUH.
That only happens in a vacuum.
https://youtu.be/E43-CfukEgs
Do you seriously want someone to peruse your posts and start pointing out erroneous or incomplete expressions?
"Sauce for the goose..."
Good to remember, Catholic.

If you knew enough to post "Not in the air; duh!", then you knew what cassini meant.
Title: Re: Earth is NOT a celestial body
Post by: Neil Obstat on September 17, 2017, 07:10:21 PM

Quote from: cassini on September 14, 2017, 01:35:48 PM (https://www.cathinfo.com/fighting-errors-in-the-modern-world/earth-is-not-a-celestial-body/msg566208/#msg566208)
Quote
Now answer this, jellyfish.  If I drop a cup and a feather, both land at the same time. Where does Mass/Density come in here?


NOT in the air. DUH.

That only happens in a vacuum.

https://youtu.be/E43-CfukEgs
.
The vacuum is a clarifying tool, removing ambient air to remove the influence of friction due to air resistance.
.
This means that without the air removed it is impossible to tell by simple observation which falls faster, the feathers or the bowling ball.
.
If we want to know whether ambient air has any effect on our experiment we need only compare results between this test done in a vacuum and this test done with normal air pressure present.
.
Quote
If you knew enough to post "Not in the air; duh!", then you knew what cassini meant.
.
Please don't give flat-earthers credit where none is due. HAHAHAHA
.