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Author Topic: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong  (Read 36378 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2022, 06:29:10 PM »
Just a quick interesting thing I found among the Fathers that completely rejects the Glober assertion that everyone believed the earth was a globe.  Several Fathers stated that there were competing notions out there among the "astronomers," with some holding that the "world" is shaped like a sphere, others that it's like a "cone," and others still that it's in the shape of a "hemisphere".  Another Father refers to the fact that one group of astronomers after another come along and overturn the views of the previous ones.  So this idea that it was universally believed since Pythagoras and Eratosthenes that the "earth" was a globe are just flat out lying.

Online Ladislaus

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2022, 06:58:21 PM »
Sungenis goes on to absolutely BUTCHER St. Augustine (who from the texts clearly believes in a flat SURFACE of the earth).  Throughout, every single time Sungenis sees "circle" or "sphere" or "globe" he interprets it to mean a globe earth.  He cites Fathers who refer to the "circle of the earth" as being globers.

It is, thus, an astonishing irony that Sungenis claims of Flat Eathers:
Quote
I would add that Ferrari’s reluctance to admit the case is common to a flat
Earth mentality, that is, they search into every nook and cranny looking for
just the slightest possible nuance toward a flat Earth view in the person
under investigation and then jump to hasty and specious conclusions.

Ridiculous.

I'm afraid that I have completely lost the respect I initially had for Sungenis after reading these citations from the Church Fathers and how badly he butchers them (in a couple cases interpreting the to be saying the exact opposite of what they actually wrote).

I retract what I wrote earlier about considering Sungenis to be intellectually honest.  This section on the Church Fathers exposes his dishonesty.  As the Dimond Brothers would say, he is clearly "of bad will" on this particular subject.

These comments here are coming from someone who does not believe that the Church Fathers had a dogmatic consensus ONE WAY OR THE OTHER on the subject.  But after reading these passages, I'm becoming more and more inclined to believe that they did in fact have a universal consensus, about certain ASPECTS of "flat earth" theory, based on their reading of Sacred Scripture.  I don't regret spending the $10 because he does have lots of material from the Church Fathers.


Online Ladislaus

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2022, 07:17:06 PM »
So, for instance, among the matters about which there was a total and universal consensus among the Church Fathers.  Without exception they believed that there is an actual firmament (made of some substance ... one Father said there were differing opinions about what this substance was made of) and that there was ACTUAL, REAL, non-metaphorical-for-space WATER above the firmament, and it was these waters that were released through the firmament to cause the Great Flood.  So, did space flow in onto the earth to drown all of humanity?

And Sacred Scripture CLEARLY describes various "windows" of the firmament that were opened up (along with the fountains of the deep, i.e. the waters that were BELOW the earth) to combine in a one-two punch to flood the world.

Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2022, 07:43:58 PM »
So, for instance, among the matters about which there was a total and universal consensus among the Church Fathers.  Without exception they believed that there is an actual firmament (made of some substance ... one Father said there were differing opinions about what this substance was made of) and that there was ACTUAL, REAL, non-metaphorical-for-space WATER above the firmament, and it was these waters that were released through the firmament to cause the Great Flood.  So, did space flow in onto the earth to drown all of humanity?

And Sacred Scripture CLEARLY describes various "windows" of the firmament that were opened up (along with the fountains of the deep, i.e. the waters that were BELOW the earth) to combine in a one-two punch to flood the world.
If you've read Sugenis' analysis of Bl. Hildegard: he theorizes that there was a massive sphere of water surrounding the earth (millions of miles in diameter) that existed prior to the Deluge that ceased to exist once the Flood occurred, leaving empty "space" between the earth's atmosphere and the "firmament" some great distance toward the edge of the cosmos. He bases this on supposed "clouds" of water found through images of space.

Online Ladislaus

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2022, 07:57:41 PM »
If you've read Sugenis' analysis of Bl. Hildegard: he theorizes that there was a massive sphere of water surrounding the earth (millions of miles in diameter) that existed prior to the Deluge that ceased to exist once the Flood occurred, leaving empty "space" between the earth's atmosphere and the "firmament" some great distance toward the edge of the cosmos. He bases this on supposed "clouds" of water found through images of space.

Yeah, the water canopy theory.  No, that's not what the Fathers believed, but that there's a permanent physical barrier between these waters above and the earth and atmosphere below, and that the waters remains and were STILL up there at the time of their writing (long after the Flood).  They describe how the heavier elements, earth and water settled lower and that above this layer of water, like a large Ocean, was the void, and that the earth is at the bottom center of creation.