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Author Topic: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong  (Read 36286 times)

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2022, 04:41:19 PM »
Those quotes are certainly interesting. And between this and his Rob Skiba debate shows that he's either wilfully ignorant or intellectually dishonest.

It's becoming clearer and clearer that the Christian, Biblical cosmology is that of a geocentric earth which is a flat plane enclosed within a globe. And that the modern cosmology of an acentric universe filled with other worlds and a spherical earth, with the habitable land encompassing its surface, is wholly pagan.

Edit: I say this because of how it is laid out in that Pythagoras or Christ book I've referenced, specifically surrounding Giordano Bruno and how his Pythagorean thesis of many worlds was condemned as heresy by the Church, including St. Robert Bellarmine, not just heliocentrism. And yet today, nearly all of what modern science proposes aligns with the heretical cosmology of Bruno. Which, of course, stems directly from the influence of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and pagan/occult wisdom.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2022, 04:47:35 PM »
Next he cites Arnobius.
Quote
For whatever is round, and bounded on every side by the
circuмference of a solid sphere
, has no beginning, no end; where there
is no end and beginning, no part can have its own name and form the
beginning. Therefore, when we say, This is the right, and that the left
side, we do not refer to anything in the world, which is everywhere
very much the same, but to our own place and position, we being so
formed that we speak of some things as on our right hand, of others as
on our left; and yet these very things which we name left, and the
others which we name right, have in us no continuance, no fixedness,
but take their forms from our sides, just as chance, and the accident of
the moment, may have placed us. If I look towards the rising sun, the
north pole and the north are on my left hand; and if I turn my face
there, the west will be on my left, for it will be regarded as behind the
sun’s back. But, again, if I turn my eyes to the region of the west, the
wind and country of the south are now said to be on my left.

Again, the italics are those of Dr. Sungenis.  It is becoming increasingly apparent that every time Dr. Sungenis sees the word "sphere" or "globe", he checks it off as proof that the Church Father who uttered that word believed that the earth is a globe.

This is the ultimate confirmation bias.

So in most of the passage he's simply talking about how "right" and "left" are relative terms based on the direction you're facing.  OK, and?

In the first sentence there, he says [presumably the earth] is "ROUND, and BOUNDED on every side by the circuмference of a solid sphere".  So the earth is ROUND and BOUNDED by a solid sphere.  He doesn't say that the earth on which we live is a solid sphere.  In fact, this passage implies the exact opposite, that the surface of the earth is ROUND, as it's BOUNDED (at its edges) by a SOLID SPHERE (where the firmament touches down).  That sounds again much more like the description of "snow globe" earth than that it's a solid sphere.  He does not say that it IS a SOLID SPHERE, but that it is BOUNDED by a solid sphere.  Can someone who interprets this to mean that the earth is a globe please explain how the expression "ROUND AND BOUNDED BY A SOLID SPHERE" possibly describes a solid globe on which people live?

Then he says something curious, that if he turns north, the West will be on his left, which is "regarded as behind the sun's back".  I'm not sure what he would mean about the West behind behind the SUN's back.  Does he regard the sun as facing East and travelling backwards?  That's a side question, but interesting on its own.



Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2022, 04:59:49 PM »
It's becoming clearer and clearer that the Christian, Biblical cosmology is that of a geocentric earth which is a flat plane enclosed within a globe. 

Indeed, and I just added the next quote, which says the same thing, that the earth is round and BOUNDED by a sphere.  Between this and the citation from St. Ambrose, they regarded the world as a sphere in the middle of the waters, so the "sphere" they are referring to is in fact the enclosure that they believed went all the way AROUND the earth in the shape of a sphere and which kept the waters out.  When St. Ambrose is arguing with someone about whether the waters would flow down off of the sphere that kept them separated from the earth, we are clearly not talking about Dr. Sungen's "empty space".  [Yes, I know he has a nuance where for him empty space is something of infinite density, but for that there is clearly no support from the Fathers.]

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2022, 05:15:45 PM »
Next are two separate quotes from Athenagoras:

Quote
For if the world, being made spherical, is confined
within the circles of heaven, and the Creator of the world is above the
things created, managing that by His providential care of these, what
place is there for the second god, or for the other gods?
and
Quote
Beautiful without doubt is the world, excelling, as well
in its magnitude as in the arrangement of its parts, both those in the
oblique circle and those about the north, and also in its spherical
form.

So, the "world, being made spherical" and "confined with in the circles of heaven".  There's nothing about this that rules out once again the snow-globe view.  This is yet another case of Dr. Sungenis seeing the word "sphere" and then interpreting it as proof for our living on a globe.

In fact, if you think about it, if this means that the SURFACE of the earth is a globe, and people live on the surface, then if the globe is suspended in the heavens, what exactly is the barrier between the heavens and the surface dwellers?  In fact they would be on the edge of the line between the globe and the heavens ... which of course they believed to be WATERS.  So with Sungenis' iterpretation, they'd have to have completely discarded the notion that there's a firmament above the earth separating the inhabitants of the earth from the waters above.  So when did these Fathers abandon that notion?

This second passage probably requires some deeper analysis.  So he describes "the world" (same term he used in the first passage) as consisting of "parts".  And he refers to some parts being in the "oblique circle", some "about the north", and others "in its spherical form".  Again we have some combination of a CIRLCE along with a SPHERE.  How are the circle and the sphere related?  If you recall, earlier we saw Arnobius saying that the earth is ROUND and BOUNDED by a circle.  Between that passage and this one,  you get the impression or a world more like this.



It would be interesting to see the original languages, to see how they use the term translated here as "world" vs. when they might use "earth".  It really does appear to me that the term "world" is much bigger than just the surface of the earth, and attempting to equate the term with the surface of the earth actually begs the question about whether they're talking about a globe earth surface.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Dr. Sungenis: Flat Earth Flat Wrong
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2022, 05:30:25 PM »
I have some work I need to go do, but I'll try to continue tomorrow, perhaps a couple pages a day.  I've read ahead a bit (while not posting), but I assure that it's more of the same.  EVERY SINGLE PASSAGE Sungenis cites (of the ones I've read) is perfectly consistent with (and some are MORE consistent with) the "snow globe" model of the world.