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Poll

Do you believe in heliocentrism?

Yes, earth goes around the sun.
2 (20%)
No, earth does not move.
8 (80%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: Do you believe in heliocentrism?  (Read 5203 times)

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Offline Smedley Butler

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Do you believe in heliocentrism?
« on: February 04, 2018, 12:27:39 PM »
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  • Please vote

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #1 on: February 04, 2018, 12:33:31 PM »
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  • I'm a geocentrist.  I believe that the earth is at the center of mass for the entire universe around which all other things move.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #2 on: February 04, 2018, 12:48:57 PM »
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  • Thanks for voting. 

    Personally,  I suspect that there are many heliocentrists here,  when there ought to be NONE.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #3 on: February 04, 2018, 12:54:26 PM »
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  • Jaynek is a heliocentrist.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #4 on: February 04, 2018, 01:03:50 PM »
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  • AES is a heliocentrist. 


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #5 on: February 04, 2018, 01:24:03 PM »
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  • Heliocentrism does not, and NEVER has, mean the sun is center of the universe. 

    Science holds sun is center of solar system and earth moves around sun, i.e. heliocentrism

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #6 on: February 04, 2018, 01:24:48 PM »
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  • I highly doubt that the sun is the center of the whole universe. I don't think anyone believes this any more. Nice straw-man poll.
    I agree.  My actual position is that I do not know about the physical question.  I only have an opinion on the spiritual center.  Since I consider this far more important than the physical one, it is incorrect to say that I believe it is merely the spiritually center as my view has been misrepresented elsewhere.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #7 on: February 04, 2018, 01:26:53 PM »
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  • You are on record for your belief in heliocentrism. 

    Shall I quote? 


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #8 on: February 04, 2018, 01:29:40 PM »
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  • I wonder why Jaynek is embarrassed by her heliocentrism?

    She says it is not a heresy,  so why is she ashamed?

    She defends heliocentrism to the death, why the hedge here and say she is ' misrepresented'?

    She also believes in evolution, but that is for another poll.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #9 on: February 04, 2018, 02:20:32 PM »
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  • I wonder why Jaynek is embarrassed by her heliocentrism?

    She says it is not a heresy,  so why is she ashamed?

    She defends heliocentrism to the death, why the hedge here and say she is ' misrepresented'?

    She also believes in evolution, but that is for another poll.

    Well, it might bring a certain amount of condemnation from family, friends, educational associates, etc., if one were to admit of a heliocentric view.

    Flat earthers are used to ridicule, but globe-earth heliocentrists may be afraid of what others might think. For some Catholics, human respect means a lot. Just a guess on my part.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #10 on: February 04, 2018, 04:37:50 PM »
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  • Quote
    Copernican heliocentrism is the name given to the astronomical model developed by Nicolaus Copernicus and published in 1543. It positioned the Sun near the center of the Universe, motionless, with Earth and the other planets orbiting around it in circular paths modified by epicycles and at uniform speeds. 

    This is the heliocentrism that was condemned by the Church.  Nobody believes this any more.  Technically, this condemnation was never removed.  When the Church allowed heliocentrism in the 1820s, the decree specified that it was for heliocentrism as it was understood at that time and there had already been changes to it by then.  I don't believe in either of those.  I am not ashamed or embarrassed to say that.  There is no reason to be since they are considered obsolete.

    From what I understand of modern science, the current model is not heliocentrism at all. It is Cosmological Special Relativity (CSR).


    Quote
     ...a theory on cosmology that was developed in the early 1990s by theoretical physicist Moshe Carmeli. It describes the large structure of space, time and velocity in the Universe. The CSR theory unites space and velocity analogically as Einstein's special relativity theory does with space and time,[1] however it is associated with cosmos or galaxies in the Universe, respectively, rather than with very fast moving particles. The substance of Carmeli's Universe is called spacevelocity instead of spacetime. Carmeli postulated that the Hubble Law that relates the velocity of the expansion of the universe to the distance of the source is fundamental to all observers in the universe although rewritten into the new form. He replaced the Hubble constant which value varies widely depending on the method used and on the distances to the sources that were used to determine its value with new truly universal constant which is the same for all observers regardless of epoch (i.e. regardless of when the measurement is made) and named it Carmeli-Hubble constant. The CSR theory predicts unusual effects in the cosmos, like length contraction and velocity dilation for large-scale structures in the Universe. By including matter into his theory, Carmeli developed also his theory on Cosmological General Relativity.[2][3]
    I don't understand this. I can't say that I believe it or don't believe it.  I don't have an opinion and don't expect that I ever will.  
     
    I am, however, prepared to say that spiritually, the earth, as the location of the Incarnation, is the center of the universe.  I'm fine with calling that spiritual geocentrism.  Or not.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #11 on: February 04, 2018, 06:23:45 PM »
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  • Heliocentrism does not, and NEVER has, mean the sun is center of the universe.

    Science holds sun is center of solar system and earth moves around sun, i.e. heliocentrism

    But even the earliest Newtonian physics held that it's not the sun, per se, but the solar system's center of mass that's at the center of the solar system.  So heliocentrism is no longer held even in the sense of the sun being the center of the solar system.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #12 on: February 04, 2018, 06:29:18 PM »
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  • Please vote
    .
    I vote for the third option, which you forgot to include: This is a vague, rhetorical question and as such requires no reply.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #13 on: February 04, 2018, 06:31:56 PM »
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  • Perhaps a better poll would be "Are you a geocentrist?" ... since heliocentrism has fallen by the wayside even among secular scientists.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #14 on: February 04, 2018, 06:34:07 PM »
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  • But even the earliest Newtonian physics held that it's not the sun, per se, but the solar system's center of mass that's at the center of the solar system.  So heliocentrism is no longer held even in the sense of the sun being the center of the solar system.
    .
    The problem with looking only at our local solar system when attempting to compute the location of a "center of mass" is, that ignoring all the other celestial bodies in outer space fails to recognize the context inherent in any forces they ought to contribute to the computation.
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    BTW while I was posting this, Laramie H's complaint post and another one replying to it, were deleted.
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