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Poll

Do you believe in heliocentrism?

Yes, earth goes around the sun.
2 (20%)
No, earth does not move.
8 (80%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: Do you believe in heliocentrism?  (Read 2608 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2018, 06:37:38 PM »
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  • https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/technically_the_earth_does_not_orbit_the_sun.html

    He concludes with this line:

    Quote
    The rest of the universe certainly doesn't revolve around the Earth, but, like so many topics in science, it's an oversimplification to say that everything orbits around the Sun.

    Of course he has no proof for the assertion that the "rest of the universe certainly doesn't revolve around the Earth".


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #16 on: February 04, 2018, 06:39:41 PM »
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  • https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/technically_the_earth_does_not_orbit_the_sun.html
    .
    Long story short, there is no more heliocentrism, and furthermore it was all a misunderstanding, so there never was any. 
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #17 on: February 04, 2018, 06:40:29 PM »
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  • .
    Long story short, there is no more heliocentrism, and furthermore it was all a misunderstanding, so there never was any.
    .

    Sure there was at one point.

    Offline aryzia

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #18 on: February 04, 2018, 08:38:53 PM »
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  • Curvature of earth is without proof.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #19 on: February 04, 2018, 08:52:58 PM »
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  • Obviously the poll was clear: 

    Earth goes around sun

    Or

    Earth does not move


    You all can argue over what terminology Neil DeGrasse Tyson and modern era scientists use, I don't care.

    I'm referring to the lie your kids are being taught in school.

    Do you subscribe to what  they are being taught. 


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #20 on: February 05, 2018, 12:47:59 AM »
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  • Curvature of earth is without proof.
    .
    Oh, so you must be able to show how the earth's shadow covering the moon during a total lunar eclipse is always circular, then. Please share it with the world! 
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #21 on: February 05, 2018, 06:15:21 AM »
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  • I think what gets taught in school is the version of "heliocentrism" that incorporates Newtonian physics which technically should probably be called "barycentrism."  But this would/should be taught as a mathematical model useful for practical purposes rather than what is really happening, since it leaves certain phenomena unexplained .

    This version of heliocentrism is the one that was allowed by the Church.  Even the condemned Copernican heliocentrism was allowed to be taught as a hypothetical or mathematical model rather than reality.  So I would not have a problem with my children being taught that.  

    I am more concerned with the possibility of my children being taught scientism, the idea that science explains everything and replaces God.  This is what dominates our culture as a part of secular humanism.  Both religion (taught properly) and science (taught properly) fight the falsity and evil of scientism.

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #22 on: February 05, 2018, 08:03:03 AM »
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  • Kinda sad that people still think the earth's shadow falls on the moon.  Can't even imagine what empirical proof they think they have for that.  


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #23 on: February 05, 2018, 08:59:01 AM »
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  • Here's a pretty good answer from a Church Father.
    Interesting post.  I would love to see the context. This still reflects the flat earth view according to Cosmas, because the suggestion that earth casts a shadow on the moon during the eclipse, as the sun goes under the earth or as some say, behind Mt. Meru) is the cause of eclipses.  I'm always drawn from some of the promoted belief (dark bodies) in favor of a Catholic one and while I don't believe the earth casts a shadow on the moon during phases, perhaps earth's shadow is responsible for eclipses. This idea of the sun and moon going behind a portion of earth is also part of the flat earth belief of Moses. One thing I haven't heard before is:  For many declare that the sun is many times larger even than the earth, and the holy Fathers say that it is equal to the earth.  

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #24 on: February 05, 2018, 09:18:18 AM »
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  • St. Basil apparently did not know Moses was not silent as to earth's shape.  Moses created the first 'type' of earth according to God's command, having recreated it in the form of the tabernacle, according to Scripture, as expounded upon by Cosmas.  Although St. Basil probably believed in the globe earth, he does back up the idea that eclipses come from the earth's shadow which is not foreign to either a globe, nor to some flat earth models. 

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #25 on: February 05, 2018, 10:46:45 AM »
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  • Here's a quote from St. John Damascus (Saint and Doctor) to prove you wrong about Basil's supposed ignorance of what Moses did. He was considered quite competent to a saint who wasn't tainted with your bias.
     
    This quote and the one below will show you another Sainted Father who considered this matter as inconsequential. God as Creator and His awesomeness is what is important.
    John of Damascus suggests that Moses thought earth was a starless sphere, that is, a globe.  Yet we know that isn't the case.  And he says St. Basil was "versed in the mysteries of divine Scripture."  But we aren't completely certain Basil believed the earth to be a globe.  Yes, Basil's chosen quotes indicate he believed in spherical earth, but we do not know for certain, having not read all of his scripts.  In fact, your second quote proves my point because you missed the point of what was being said.  There is a second possibility as well.  Many saints seem to teach that there is a baptism of desire, yet they contradict themselves in their other writings.  St. Augustine comes to mind.  St. Basil bears more scrutiny for sure, since he was versed in the mysteries of Scripture.  Another excellent post.    
    John of Damascus is talking flat earth in the second quote, and only distinguishing between details within that model.  He speaks of heaven as a sphere at the beginning of the quote, then later, that heaven is a hemisphere. They say, besides, that the heaven encircles the earth in the manner of a sphere, and bears along with it in its most rapid revolutions sun, moon and stars, and that when the sun is over the earth it becomes day there, and when it is under the earth it is night. And, Others have pictured the heaven as a hemisphere.  He is not even speaking of earth being a sphere, but heaven being a sphere.  This doesn't even address the globe earth, but he is discussing the different opinions regarding the flat earth.  Notice he talks about the vault, the curtain, tent, etc.  All of them are flat earth references.   His point is, no matter the details of flat earth, the earth doesn't move--which just so happens to be a notion that belongs to the globalists.


    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #26 on: February 05, 2018, 11:44:17 AM »
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  • I don't know how many times I have to tell you my position but it seems that you have somehow closed your mind completely to the possibility of another opinion besides Flat Earth or Globe Earth. My position is that it does not matter. This is not a religious matter. 
    And this closed mind also prevents her from grasping the teaching of the Church.  The Church too is taking a position that is neither flat earth nor globe earth.  The Church tells us not to look in Scripture to discover the nature of visible things.

    We aren't supposed to be looking in Scripture for flat (or globe) earth verses to defend our position.  We are supposed to be learning about things which lead to salvation.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #27 on: February 05, 2018, 11:56:31 AM »
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  • And this closed mind also prevents her from grasping the teaching of the Church.  The Church too is taking a position that is neither flat earth nor globe earth.  The Church tells us not to look in Scripture to discover the nature of visible things.

    We aren't supposed to be looking in Scripture for flat (or globe) earth verses to defend our position.  We are supposed to be learning about things which lead to salvation.

    Globe-earthers can't look to Scripture to defend their position, because there isn't anything in Scripture which indicated a globe earth. But there are good indications in Scripture that lead to a flat earth.

    You needn't be afraid of it. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #28 on: February 05, 2018, 12:01:18 PM »
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  • Globe-earthers can't look to Scripture to defend their position, because there isn't anything in Scripture which indicated a globe earth. But there are good indications in Scripture that lead to a flat earth.

    You needn't be afraid of it.
    We ought to be afraid of disobeying Church teaching which tells us that Scripture does not teach about things like the shape of the earth.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Do you believe in heliocentrism?
    « Reply #29 on: February 05, 2018, 12:01:48 PM »
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  • And this closed mind also prevents her from grasping the teaching of the Church.  The Church too is taking a position that is neither flat earth nor globe earth.  The Church tells us not to look in Scripture to discover the nature of visible things.

    We aren't supposed to be looking in Scripture for flat (or globe) earth verses to defend our position.  We are supposed to be learning about things which lead to salvation.
    .
    The Catholic Church has never required us to ignore our perception through our senses and believe what we are told as if we were robots. Man is not a machine or a computer that can be programmed.
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    With immortal souls and free will plus intellect, we are capable of observing reality and using reason to arrive at logical conclusions. THINKING is a Catholic endeavor. 
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    To the extent that flat-earthers choose not to think, they fall short of being Catholic, unfortunately for them.
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    Grace builds on nature. When one chooses to ignore what nature provides it cuts off grace.
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