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Author Topic: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?  (Read 47156 times)

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Offline Nadir

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Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
« Reply #90 on: November 28, 2017, 08:30:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Truth is Eternal on November 28, 2017, 12:08:50 PM
    Baal (globe earth) worship/belief is Satanism.
    TiE, are you here to make Catholics appear grossly ignorant? 
    Baal has nothing to do with globe earth.

    Etymology of Baal:  
    From Late Latin Baal (as in the Vulgate) and Ancient Greek Βάαλ (Báal), from Hebrew בעל‏ (Ba‘al, "Baal", and ba‘al, "lord, husband"), from Proto-Semitic *baʿl- (“owner, lord, husband”).
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    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #91 on: November 28, 2017, 09:16:21 PM »
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    • I really do not mean to sound disrespectful, but please can someone explain to me, as if I was 5, what does it matter if the earth is a flat surface or a globe, to the purpose of my salvation?

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    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #92 on: November 29, 2017, 01:57:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 27, 2017, 04:15:19 PM
    Even if everyone believed in FE for a certain period of time in Church history, that doesn't rise to the level of Magisterium, much less a teaching of the Ordinary Universal Magisterium.

    The magisterium teaches doctrine, not science, so the point you make is irrelevant. 
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #93 on: November 29, 2017, 03:57:21 AM »
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    • Quote from: kiwiboy on November 28, 2017, 12:00:06 PM
    St. Thomas on the globe earth http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t27-faqs-part-10

    Quote
     But St. Thomas argues against it!

    St. Thomas does no such thing. In a question on habits (I-II, Q54, art 2), he makes reference to Aristotle having "proven" that the Earth was round. His wording can make it seem like he agrees especially if you come at it presupposing the Earth to be round, but he does not state clearly is own opinion on the matter. He was simply using it to make another general point.
    This is what St Thomas wrote:
    "The physicist proves the earth to be round by one means, the astronomer by another: for the latter proves this by means of mathematics, e.g. by the shapes of eclipses, or something of the sort; while the former proves it by means of physics, e.g. by the movement of heavy bodies towards the center, and so forth."

    He was not arguing against flat earth.  By the time he was writing, it was no longer a matter of controversy.  St. Thomas simply took for granted the long-established Catholic consensus that the earth is a sphere.  In this passage, in order to make another general point, he assumes that all his readers agree that the earth is a globe.  

    This is actually much stronger evidence that the Catholic tradition is for spherical earth than a passage arguing against flat earth would have been.  This shows that the question had moved beyond the point where people would argue about it or even bother to explicitly state their opinions.  It was just something that everyone knew and agreed on.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #94 on: November 29, 2017, 04:17:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Truth is Eternal on November 28, 2017, 09:05:04 AM
    The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government “space agencies” show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.
    I got my husband to explain this to me.  He says a flat horizon 360 degrees around the observer is what we should expect if the earth is a sphere.  It looks like a straight line because all the points are an equal distance from the observer.  The higher the point of observation the farther one can see before the curvature of the sphere blocks ones vision.  This is why ships would have a crowsnest at as high a point as possible to station their lookout.  

    It the earth were flat there would not be a horizon.  Instead of a discrete line, one would see the distance gradually getting dimmer as one's vision failed.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #95 on: November 29, 2017, 08:03:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Cantarella on November 28, 2017, 09:16:21 PM
    I really do not mean to sound disrespectful, but please can someone explain to me, as if I was 5, what does it matter if the earth is a flat surface or a globe, to the purpose of my salvation?

    That was the same question I had.  Someone answered that flat earth essentially makes us feel closer to God than if we were a tiny spot in some vast universe.  Well, we really are tiny and insignificant compared to God.  When I reflect on the vastness of the universe and how awesome and impressive are God's works, that He created all this with little effort, it only increases my sense of His greatness and His power.  Now, Geocentrism IMO is more important in terms of our perception of God and creation.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #96 on: November 29, 2017, 08:06:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 29, 2017, 04:17:11 AM
    I got my husband to explain this to me.  He says a flat horizon 360 degrees around the observer is what we should expect if the earth is a sphere.  It looks like a straight line because all the points are an equal distance from the observer.  The higher the point of observation the farther one can see before the curvature of the sphere blocks ones vision.  This is why ships would have a crowsnest at as high a point as possible to station their lookout.  

    It the earth were flat there would not be a horizon.  Instead of a discrete line, one would see the distance gradually getting dimmer as one's vision failed.

    Only if the entire flat earth were of equal elevation.  And the horizon could be the point of vision failure even in places where there aren't elevated geographical features (such as the ocean).
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #97 on: November 29, 2017, 08:16:16 AM »
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    • I don't understand how the Flat Earth model is consistent with the fact that, during part of the year, you have 24 hours of daylight at Antarctica and extremely long days not far from Antarctica.  If the sun is moving around in a circle along the edges of this ice wall, you wouldn't have 24 hours of daylight.  Obviously the math would work at the North Pole and in the northern regions, but it doesn't make sense to me in the South.

    https://steemit.com/science/@kerriknox/24-hour-sunlight-in-antarctica-is-impossible-on-a-flat-earth-2-in-the-flat-earth-is-impossible-series
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #98 on: November 29, 2017, 08:17:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 29, 2017, 08:16:16 AM
    I don't understand how the Flat Earth model is consistent with the fact that, during part of the year, you have 24 hours of daylight at Antarctica and extremely long days not far from Antarctica.  If the sun is moving around in a circle along the edges of this ice wall, you wouldn't have 24 hours of daylight.  Obviously the math would work at the North Pole and in the northern regions, but it doesn't make sense to me in the South.

    https://steemit.com/science/@kerriknox/24-hour-sunlight-in-antarctica-is-impossible-on-a-flat-earth-2-in-the-flat-earth-is-impossible-series

    Really the only thing you could say is that all the observations from the Antarctica are faked.  Yet there are inhabited cities in the far south that, while they don't have quite 24 hours, do have very long days which cannot be explained by a flat earth model.
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #99 on: November 29, 2017, 08:18:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on November 28, 2017, 08:30:31 PM
    TiE, are you here to make Catholics appear grossly ignorant?
    Baal has nothing to do with globe earth.

    Etymology of Baal:  
    From Late Latin Baal (as in the Vulgate) and Ancient Greek Βάαλ (Báal), from Hebrew בעל‏ (Ba‘al, "Baal", and ba‘al, "lord, husband"), from Proto-Semitic *baʿl- (“owner, lord, husband”).
    Freemasonic globe earthers make Catholics look ignorant. I am on a mission to continue to work toward the restoration of the Catholic church. Freemasonic globe earthers have no place in the Catholic church. Baal (globe worship/belief) is Satanism.
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    Offline Cantarella

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #100 on: November 29, 2017, 08:47:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 29, 2017, 08:03:11 AM
    That was the same question I had.  Someone answered that flat earth essentially makes us feel closer to God than if we were a tiny spot in some vast universe.  Well, we really are tiny and insignificant compared to God.  When I reflect on the vastness of the universe and how awesome and impressive are God's works, that He created all this with little effort, it only increases my sense of His greatness and His power.  Now, Geocentrism IMO is more important in terms of our perception of God and creation.
    Thank you. Respect to Geocentrism, I am inclined to believe that the earth is in fact at the center of the universe and I can see why this would be of more importance.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #101 on: November 29, 2017, 09:00:45 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 29, 2017, 08:06:30 AM
    Only if the entire flat earth were of equal elevation.  And the horizon could be the point of vision failure even in places where there aren't elevated geographical features (such as the ocean).
    Vision failure happens gradually.  One sees less and less clearly at greater distance.  It would not cause the sharp line of horizon that one observes at sea.  My husband says there is a correlation between cultures that develop a spherical understanding of the the earth and those that have sea-faring abilities because oceans have the conditions that allow people to easily observe phenomena which show the earth is a globe.
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    Offline RoughAshlar

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #102 on: November 29, 2017, 09:23:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: kiwiboy on November 28, 2017, 12:04:51 PM

    No plausible working model???

    You can't find what you are not looking for my friend...


    you want to talk about flights?

    Try this on for size....

    http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t97-flights-from-nz-to-a-america

    Kiwiboy,

    I will check out the flight site and try to replicate myself so I can post my results.  If I am wrong, I will admit it.

    The working model problem is different.  Link me the official FE approved working model of earth.  The model that has working seasons, phases of the moon, can predict lunar and solar eclipses years out.  You can't just say "You can't find what you are not looking for my friend..." ...the onus is on FE to prove otherwise.....is there no working model of flat earth that can show these things?  I am not debating curvature, I am trying say that its not enough to say that globe doesn't exist. If the globe has never existed, then the brilliant minds of priestly Catholic and lay Catholic scholars, astronomers, cartographers, etc of the past 600 years would have drawn a rudimentary sketch of how earth was laid out.  One of the explorers would have circuмnavigated the edges of the earth and mapped that out.  Instead there are tourist flights and cruises that can be booked to fly over and around Antarctica.
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    Offline RoughAshlar

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #103 on: November 29, 2017, 09:48:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Truth is Eternal on November 29, 2017, 08:18:39 AM
    Freemasonic globe earthers make Catholics look ignorant. I am on a mission to continue to work toward the restoration of the Catholic church. Freemasonic globe earthers have no place in the Catholic church. Baal (globe worship/belief) is Satanism.

    Quote from: Truth is Eternal on Tue Nov 28 2017 09:39:56 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time)
    The heretical freemasonic globe earth belief is an obstacle to salvation. The globe belief, when God has clearly revealed to us that the earth is not a globe, is a direct attempted assault on God.

    Quote from: Truth is Eternal on Sat Nov 25 2017 21:44:32 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time)God created the flat earth. You just committed the unforgivable sin of Blasphemy.

    Ladislaus saying that he is overstating is being generous

    Kiwiboy saying that he is just zealous is understating.

    Does this seem like a rational person at all?

    Is there one traditional Catholic priest in the world that preaches flat earth is necessary for salvation?  To get to heaven your soul must be in the state of grace and have a firm belief that the earth is flat....Is there any priest/religious/visionary/doctor/pope anybody alive or dead that said that have said that believing that the earth is a globe is Satanism?  I don't remember that blasphemy being an unforgivable sin in my Catechism.  In the dozen encyclicals over the last 200+ years that spoke against Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, was there a single one that said that the globe was a masonic deception?

    I'm all for the debating, but this is the level of crazy conspiracy of false religious fervor that turns people minds off.  It doesn't serve flat earth's agenda to allow this to continue.  This is the reason why this area of the forum is referred to as the ghetto of Cath Info.






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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #104 on: November 29, 2017, 10:02:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: Cantarella on November 28, 2017, 09:16:21 PM
    I really do not mean to sound disrespectful, but please can someone explain to me, as if I was 5, what does it matter if the earth is a flat surface or a globe, to the purpose of my salvation?

    Does an issue or a cause really only matter if it's related to your salvation?

    There are quite a few threads being currently discussed here at Cath Info that are not related to salvation.

    The reason why it's important to discuss has already been given.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29
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