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Author Topic: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?  (Read 13128 times)

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Offline Jaynek

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Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2017, 07:28:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: kiwiboy on November 28, 2017, 05:04:48 AM

    Jaynek,
    the default position is flat earth NOT globe earth.

    The default position is the consensus held by Catholics (including St. Albert the Great and St. Thomas Aquinas) for over a thousand years.  The earth is shaped like a globe.  And what do you mean it has been refuted that St. Thomas believed in a spherical earth?  Anyone can read for himself what is written in the Summa.

    And how do you explain that one get to China from America by travelling west and going across the Pacific Ocean or one can get to China by travelling east and going across the Atlantic Ocean?  Countless people have confirmed that the earth is not flat simply by their own personal travels.
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #46 on: November 28, 2017, 09:04:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 27, 2017, 05:32:05 PM
    The whole point of that St. Augustine quote is that it matters a great deal.  By destroying the credibility of Christianity, people espousing FE can lead to the loss of salvation.  He is saying that it is disgraceful and dangerous nonsense with eternal consequences.

    This matter does not need to be brought up.  It does nothing to further the reign of Christ the King.  On the contrary, it endangers souls.  
    Are you claiming, the people who clearly see that the horizon is horizontal with no curve at all, but still choose to claim there is a curve, that these people are going to hell?
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #47 on: November 28, 2017, 09:05:04 AM »
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    • The horizon always appears perfectly flat 360 degrees around the observer regardless of altitude. All amateur balloon, rocket, plane and drone footage show a completely flat horizon over 20+ miles high. Only NASA and other government “space agencies” show curvature in their fake CGI photos/videos.
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #48 on: November 28, 2017, 09:05:44 AM »
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    • The horizon always rises to the eye level of the observer as altitude is gained, so you never have to look down to see it. If Earth were in fact a globe, no matter how large, as you ascended the horizon would stay fixed and the observer / camera would have to tilt looking down further and further to see it.
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #49 on: November 28, 2017, 09:06:31 AM »
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    • The natural physics of water is to find and maintain its level. If Earth were a giant sphere tilted, wobbling and hurdling through infinite space then truly flat, consistently level surfaces would not exist here. But since Earth is in fact an extended flat plane, this fundamental physical property of fluids finding and remaining level is consistent with experience and common sense.
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #50 on: November 28, 2017, 09:10:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 27, 2017, 05:59:47 PM
    You are claiming that the Church teaches something stupid.  It makes the Church look stupid and it makes you look stupid. Then when we want to talk about important things pertaining to salvation, people aren't listening because they have already decided we are stupid.
    Flat earth is exactly the sort of stupid thing that St. Augustine was writing about.
    God created the flat earth. You calling God's creation stupid make you a damned heretic.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #51 on: November 28, 2017, 09:11:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: kiwiboy on November 28, 2017, 05:03:42 AM

    Ladislaus,
    Happy you keep an open mind. How do you explain that we can see objects beyond the horizon that we shouldn't see?
    http://flatearthtrads.forumga.net/t17-objects-over-the-horizon-proofs

    I'll look at these.  I'm not afraid of where the truth leads.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #52 on: November 28, 2017, 09:13:12 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on November 27, 2017, 07:48:12 PM
    I'll try to write more later about why globe earth/heliocentrism has promoted secular humanism.

    Please do ... because I'm not seeing it.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #53 on: November 28, 2017, 09:15:08 AM »
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    • Quote from: Truth is Eternal on November 28, 2017, 09:04:14 AM
    Are you claiming, the people who clearly see that the horizon is horizontal with no curve at all, but still choose to claim there is a curve, that these people are going to hell?
    No I am saying that people who claim that flat earth is a teaching of the Church work towards destroying the credibility of the Church, causing an obstacle to salvation.  If people think the Church is opposed to truth and reason (which is what teaching FE would imply), they will not be open to learning from her the truths necessary for salvation that only she possesses.  Flat earthism imperils souls.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #54 on: November 28, 2017, 09:17:43 AM »
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    • I do agree with Jaynek that, even if it's true, it's probably imprudent to promote the idea too much ... because, as per the St. Augustine quote, it'll subject Traditional Catholicism to ridicule.  And to me, it's not a matter of faith where it's important to promote it.  One could say the same thing, to a point, about Geocentrism ... except that the link there between trying to eliminate man as the pinnacle of God's creation and ultimately the Creator Himself is much more clear.  Nevertheless, although I am a convinced Geocentrist, I don't push this too hard either, and I distance my opinion from the Church or from Traditional Catholicism ... because there are other battles to be fought in the theological arena.  I think it prudent to pick and choose our battles.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #55 on: November 28, 2017, 09:19:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 28, 2017, 09:15:08 AM
    No I am saying that people who claim that flat earth is a teaching of the Church work towards destroying the credibility of the Church, causing an obstacle to salvation.  If people think the Church is opposed to truth and reason (which is what teaching FE would imply), they will not be open to learning from her the truths necessary for salvation that only she possesses.  Flat earthism imperils souls.

    I agree.  But that was also my point about the promotion of wife-beating.  People outside the Church and outside Traditional Catholicism would find it revolting and would be turned off to the faith as a result.  As I said, let us pick and choose our battles in prudence.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #56 on: November 28, 2017, 09:22:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: Truth is Eternal on November 28, 2017, 09:10:05 AM
    God created the flat earth. You calling God's creation stupid make you a damned heretic.
    God created the earth.  He did not make it flat.  The idea that it is flat is stupid.  
    The Church has never taught that the earth is flat, even in a non-definitive way.  There are certainly no definitive statements that the earth is flat.  Many Saints have taught that the earth is spherical.  It is absurd to call me a heretic.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #57 on: November 28, 2017, 09:24:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 28, 2017, 09:19:30 AM
    I agree.  But that was also my point about the promotion of wife-beating.  People outside the Church and outside Traditional Catholicism would find it revolting and would be turned off to the faith as a result.  As I said, let us pick and choose our battles in prudence.
    As you may recall, I agreed with you when you made that point.  
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #58 on: November 28, 2017, 09:39:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 28, 2017, 09:15:08 AM
    No I am saying that people who claim that flat earth is a teaching of the Church work towards destroying the credibility of the Church, causing an obstacle to salvation.  If people think the Church is opposed to truth and reason (which is what teaching FE would imply), they will not be open to learning from her the truths necessary for salvation that only she possesses.  Flat earthism imperils souls.
    The heretical freemasonic globe earth belief is an obstacle to salvation. The globe belief, when God has clearly revealed to us that the earth is not a globe, is a direct attempted assault on God. 
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    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #59 on: November 28, 2017, 09:42:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: Jaynek on November 28, 2017, 09:22:35 AM
    God created the earth.  He did not make it flat.  The idea that it is flat is stupid.  
    The Church has never taught that the earth is flat, even in a non-definitive way.  There are certainly no definitive statements that the earth is flat.  Many Saints have taught that the earth is spherical.  It is absurd to call me a heretic.
    If I post pictures of the flat earth horizon, God demands you be converted. Will you convert if I post pictures of showing the flat earth horizon?
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