Author Topic: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?  (Read 5199 times)

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Offline RoughAshlar

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Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
« Reply #300 on: December 06, 2017, 07:59:13 AM »
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  • Well the Fathers were clearly against the Globe. You can see that in the quotes.

    The condemnation of Galileo does not speak of the globe, it is true. But this is probably because of what exactly it was that Galileo proposed, and there was not much need to go further. It may also have been because there were a lot of people who believed in the globe in the Church, and the Holy Office was threading carefully.

    Ptolomy's Almagest was being universally taught at the time,(for the good things in it), but it also contained the globe error.

    The problem with geocentrists is that they take the galileo condemnation and don't want to go further than that. As if that is the only condemnation that could be made. Like children latching onto a toy and refusing to let go.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #301 on: December 06, 2017, 08:26:01 AM »
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  • .
    You did not read far enough in the metabunk forum. A few posts accused them of not having a level laser. BTW a few dozen meters with one centimeter's error (or even one millimeter!) would not ensure a level instrument for projection across several kilometers. They would have needed to establish less than one millimeter variation over 300 meters, by checking in opposite directions, before they would have reasonable assurance of an adequately level laser. Then their accuracy would have been within 3 millimeters in one kilometer or 6 in two or 9 millimeters in three kilometers.
    .

    Unless it was a hoax, the measurements I saw on the video insured that the laser was adequately level.  They were taken at many regular intervals, including ones very close by, and if anything the laser rose very slightly within the first couple interval measurements so that this should cause it to rise even more as you went farther.  Posters on metabunk were simply saying what they wanted to be true.  You're very emotional about this subject as well, so I do not trust your judgment either ... just as I don't trust the judgment of the people on metabunk.  I'm seeking the truth in this matter and am not interested in emotional rants from either side.  So, for instance, the evidence is almost irrefutable that 9/11 was an inside job and that the US moon landing was a hoax ... and yet you'll find tons of clowns out there trying to "debunk" the evidence and pretending to be objective scientists.

    Basically, if the Hungarians were deliberately skewing the laser, they would have had an extremely difficult time creating the precise downward angle that would project itself into just a few centimeters at their farthest distance; they would have hit the water WELL before that point.  They would have had to plan this out well before hand, do a pre-run a several kilometers out and then adjust the laser to hit the target FIRST and then come back and stage the experiment.  Again, I am not ruling out a hoax ... where they did exactly that, but, absent a hoax, the evidence is very convincing. 

    Basically this works like a gun sight; if you can hit the first two targets precisely, then the subsequent targets are going to be in line.



    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #302 on: December 06, 2017, 08:33:36 AM »
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  • Be that as it may, the ultimate accusation on the metabunk site is in regards to the distortion that occurs over such surfaces as bodies of water, especially when there is an inversion layer (warm air on top of cold air).

    Same problem here.  In order for them to hit their target several kilometers out as PRECISELY as they did ... within a few centimeters, they would have had to hoax this completely and set the laser angle before hand to compensate for these alleged conditions.  Absent a hoax, I find this criticism unconvincing.

    Online happenby

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #303 on: December 06, 2017, 10:28:56 AM »
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  • Define "up".

    Go on.

    Sideways? Relative to what?

    Relative to a line parallel to an assumed flat Earth?

    Sideways relative to the alignment of my body?

    Why are you having such trouble grasping that a direction is not an absolute but a relationship between two points, from one toward another? Of course going to Heaven meant going "up", because that's what "up" meant: the perpendicular  direction from the Earth towards the heavens. It's a tautology. And this definition applies is a spherical model of the cosmos (which was the Medieval view), and does so far more elegantly too.
    "Relative to what?"  Words only a globalist would say and such a modern notion often conveniently transposed onto morals.  Direction is absolute on a flat geocentric earth.  Up is up, to heaven, above the head.  Down is down, to hell.  West is west, where the sun sets.  East is east where the sun rises.  Simple. 

    Online happenby

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #304 on: December 06, 2017, 10:31:44 AM »
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  • This is how stupid you are being:


    Except for the antipode for which the actual direction is rendered false. 


    Online happenby

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #305 on: December 06, 2017, 10:46:36 AM »
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  • You have the capacity for logical though of a five-year-old. Direction is by definition a geometrical relationship between two points in a space. Stop being a buffoon. It's impossible to specify a direction without specifying it in relation to two points, and you IN FACT do exactly that in your "flat Earth" model
    Up is up - a meaningless tautogoly.
    Up is toward heaven - establishing relativity and conceding the point
    Above the head - the direction of my head changes, so either "up" changes, making it completely arbitrary relative to the abritrary position of my head, or "above" means the same thing as "up", making it circular.

    Note how I did not state that the location of Heaven and Earth are not absolute and objective realities, or something "relative".
    Direction is necessarily relative on a ball: For those on the top, up may be up, but to those on the bottom the top guy's up is the opposite direction for them and therefore, down.  The guy on the side's 'up', is not up to the guy on the top, nor to the guy on the bottom.  There is no top, no bottom, no up, no down, no east, no west, no north, no south, no horizontal and no vertical, on a ball.  Its all relative.    

    Online happenby

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #306 on: December 06, 2017, 10:53:59 AM »
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  • As expected, you just don't get it. You lack the necessary basic capacities of analytical thought.
    You have implicitly defined "up" in the flat model as the direction from Earth toward the heavens, yet you refuse to be consistent in this definition when you look at the spherical model, which would result in this:

    Instead, you project the flat model onto the spherical model, maintaining the definition of "up", not in relation to the Earth and heavens of the spherical model, but in relation to the Earth and heavens of the flat model. But there's a further caveat: you have no basis from which to align this flat model with the spherical model. It can be rotated arbitrarily in the projection.
    Flat earth cannot be rotated arbitrarily in reality.  Up and down cannot be rotated arbitrarily.  Up is up for all people at the same time above their heads, something true only on a flat earth.  Otherwise, up is out, down for some, and totally relative in reality making it 'not up'.  And that is a lie. 

    Online happenby

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #307 on: December 06, 2017, 10:58:23 AM »
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  • No: DIRECTION is IN PRINCIPLE a geometrical relationship BETWEEN TWO POINTS. This has nothing to do with any choice of geometry or cosmic model. Heaven is where it is,a nd the Earyh is where it is: but the direction from one to the other is a function of their respective positions.
    But this is a pointless discussion as it's clearly all flying over your head.

    Again: define them abolutely. You can't do it, but you're too dense to understand why your attempts at it are inadequte.
    I did.  Up is above your head.  Where heaven is.  Down is down, where hell is.  East is east where the sun rises and west is west where the sun sets.  Get off the spinning ball and you'll know which end is up. 


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #308 on: December 06, 2017, 11:37:55 AM »
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  • Such arrogance, Kreuzritter. 

    Heaven is "straight up" because we live on a flat plane. Hell is below us. Up is relative to a flat earth. You can make it as complicated as you like, but it's really rather simple. Which may be why you have difficulty grasping it. 

    Online happenby

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #309 on: December 06, 2017, 12:03:33 PM »
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  • Ye gods, you are a moron.

    You don't get the point of the diagrams I posted or what I'm saying. Your comment is irrelevant to them. The questin is, since you're continually taking terms, viz. geometrical objects, defined in relation to a flat model and projecting them into a spherical model, what are the correct transformations to be employed in this projection? They are arbitrary. We could just as well use eithe rof these:



    When I perform a handstand on a flat Earth, is up still above my head?
    If yes, how is "above" distinct from "up", and how does this then constitute a defintion?
    If not, how does this constitute a definition?

    And this is just a series of non sequiturs. Again you're implicitly projecting a flat model over a spherical model in order to define terms in the spherical model, and its leading you into confusion.
    Up is up above your head when you don't flip upside down.  It really isn't all that hard.  True is true.  Level is level.  The horizon is horizontal, etc. Unless earth is a ball. Then things get real dishonest. Because up/down/good/bad is whatever you make it, relative to all, even non-existent.  The spherical, spinning, rotating earth is Satan's re-creation of earth in his own image.  And its chaos.  Even a stationary earth ball carries that chaos into the void of ridiculous and leaves everything in doubt.  You don't have to bullwhip me calling me names in order to get your point across.  I just don't buy it because its nonsense.   

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Did Catholics before the "Reformation" believe in FE?
    « Reply #310 on: June 02, 2018, 12:21:59 AM »
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  • While I haven't studied the question of Flat Earth in depth, I am intrigued by the results of that Hungarian laser experiment.
    .
    Why don't you put that "intrigue" to the test and go see if you can make the sun come "back" using a zoom lens camera.
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


     

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