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Author Topic: Debunk of a Flat Earth without using science but only empirical observations  (Read 20760 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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As I posted on the other thread...I find it fascinating to see many sedes against FE, because it hasn't been "fully explained" or some details are unclear, yet...how many theories of sedevacantism are there (100s)?  Not all the sede details are worked out (not even close). But still, millions of people believe sedeism and it’s plausible even if not fully explained (yet).  

If I had even a million dollars at my disposal for scientfic reasearch (I think NASA's number if $60 million a day), then would simply organize a flight to circuмnavigate Antarctica.  We have planes that can easily make it around the entire alleged perimeter of Antarctica without refueling.  I'd place observers at what would be the halfway mark, and various Flat Earthers can be on the plane filming and taking their readings and measurements.  If the plane made it around the other side in about 20 hours (about what it would take), then the FE map is just plain (plane) flat-out wrong :laugh1:

Heck, if I were a glober and just wanted to shut up the FEs, it would do the same thing.  That would quickly put an end to the whole thing.
Big budget is completely unnecessary. You needn't search very long to find people who have spent seasons in Antarctica and in the Arctic circle.
(I know one who did a 9-month stint at South Pole Station, and several techs from the now decommissioned White Alice network).
They will tell you about the midnight summer sun WHICH OCCURS AT BOTH POLES BUT AT DIFFERENT TIMES, half year apart during respective seasons for northern and southern hemispheres, and also about the sunless winter days. Now, try to fit that into the ludicrous FE "terrarium" models those pathetic frauds keep ginning up.


Oh, and I suppose it's necessary to point out the obvious, that the midnight sun observed at both poles during opposite halves of the year, is very low to the horizon and circles the observer through each day.
Shouldn't have to point that out, but it proves the "spirograph sun" of these fraudsters is quite an impossibility.

But I simply cannot buy that this magical refraction is responsible for all the "see too far" phenomena.  I laid out both sides of the issue, and the odds are so small that this refraction can consistently and repeatably make light bend perfectly around the curve, are almost zero. 
...
I would be more inclined to believe some evidence that "gravity" causes light to bend around the curve.  At least that would result in a repeatable and consistent result.  But nobody argues that because they realize that gravity does not have that effect on light.
Actually, it's diffraction, and it is caused by the graded density of air, being moreso at the surface and becoming rarefied as you go up. It is consistent, measurable, and forms a huge lens which curves light rays, because light moves slower in the more dense part of the medium. Like glass is more dense than air....
In fact, the old experiment which "proved" gravity can bend light (eclipsed sun shifting the apparent position of stars within a fraction of a degree) can just as likely be due to the same effect. Nearby to any large star is a more dense cloud of molecular stuff being attracted by its gravity, and forming a similar "faint" lens, albeit a super huge one.

1902 "The Earth" (volumes III-IV), a journal published in 1902 by John Williams (editor).





And this is just the third one I randomly opened to look for this.

Since I couldn't really figure out what that text is supposed to mean, I looked it up. The monthly Journal "The Earth" was edited, printed, and published in 73 West Street, Brighton, England by Lady Elizabeth Anne Mould Blount ("A pancake world, rolled flat by Lady Blount"). Lady Blount F.R.S.L., F.S.A. also was President of the Universal Zetetic Society, and President of the Society for the Protection of the Dark Races.

The text quoted by Ladislaus is from a letter to the editor, written by W. Ernest Cooke, an Australian astronomer, who was not amused. A reader had given a pamphlet of Lady Blunt titled "The Midnight Sun" to Cooke, and had forwarded Cooke's refutation to Blunt, who printed it.


Quote from: The Earth Journal Flat Earth Zetetics Blount 1895 Vols 3-6
Dear Sir,

I know there are still a few persons who profess to believe that the Earth is a plane and stationary, whilst the sun revolves round it, but I did not know that any of them had printed such utter rubbish as in the pamphlet you so kindly sent me. This is the first of their publications I have seen and I am much obliged to you for it. I suppose some of them have written something a trifle more plausible than The Midnight Sun, and it would interest me to see a really plausible explanation of their theory. As to The Midnight Sun, the author has not the slightest idea of modern theories, etc., e g.: in his diagram on page 7. As a fact the sun at its farthest north declination, passes overhead at the tropic of Cancer, and according to accepted theory “overhead” means a contination of a line joining the observing station with the Earth’s centre. The position of the sun therefore should be on a prolongation of E F and at an enormous distance away. Placed thus, what becomes of the difficulty of seeing it from M, in a direction somewhat resembling M Q ?



As to the theory of the sun’s rays just reaching through our atmosphere to a certain distance, it is too funny for words. An action of this kind must be gradual and must vary with the constitution of our atmosphere, if we are to accept any verified facts of optics whatever. In this case the length of each day will be determined by the state of the atmosphere! Besides apply the simplest mathematics to the case. On page 9 : suppose the sun is running round the inner circle O R Q. See how his motion would appear to an observer at G. With centre G and radius G N draw a circle cutting O R Q in X and Y. Then when the sun reaches X it would be just rising to the observer at G, when at R it would be noon, and sunset at Y. But in one hour’s motion from X its apparent angular movement at G would be almost nil and this would gradually increase until it would reach a maximum at noon and then decrease. Now nothing is so certain as that the sun moves through equal angles in equal times, so this consideration alone would absolutely demolish the theory.



I need not go on, but what about the stars? I honestly believe that many who profess to believe (!) in this nonsense do not even know that every star in the sky describes a circle round the celestial pole every 24h. Ask some of them for fun, if you come across any.

The fact is that the writer of the book on Norway could easily have worked out all his statements of facts in his study, and if he used the ordinary theories they would be as correct as if he observed them, and probably more so, because the small error of observation would be eliminated, e.g., the 4th par. on page 3, “the nearer any point,” etc., evidently has been written in this manner, for the observer has not certainly visited the Pole or has remained remarkably reticent about it.

One more word. I believe the confusion of the term “level” with “straight” or “plane” has given rise to no end of error. The sea is, on the whole, level but certainly not plane. The level of anything is measured by an instrument which depends upon the action of gravity and when we state that two points are on the same level we mean that they are subjected to the same gravitational pull, or in other words are equi-distant from the Earth’s centre. This, however, would be above the level of these paradoxers.

Yours faithfully,
W. ERNEST COOKE.
archive.org


Unfortunately I couldn't find a copy of the pamphlet of Lady Blunt, so her model of the trajectory of the sun remains somewhat in the dark. Cooke discusses a section of a circle above the tropic of Cancer, which would be a section of that trajectory. Vertical movements are not mentioned.

Ladislaus, I really wasn't aware of this letter of Cooke's and of the pamphlet of Lady Blount. Maybe you can find "The Midnight Sun" in your Literature?!


And we admit that the exact path of the sun and moon are speculation.

But constant height. That was given e.g. in the video you posted and highly recommended about that "Perspective Matrix". The horizontal path, then, should follow the places within the tropics where the sun is seen at the zenith at noon. How can this be open to speculation?