Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX  (Read 7596 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2022, 08:00:26 PM »
Out of interest, when was this video made? Fr Scott is quite young in the image. 
Also the questioner/challenge? near the finish, "Byron", has a definite Australian accent so I wonder if it was made when he was here in Australia. Does he still hold these views? Actually as he speaks and answers questions he sounds rather unsure of his stand.

Re: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2022, 11:17:42 AM »
When all the Fathers share an opinion for more than a 1000 years, whether or not they got into a boat to study it, it's automatically doctrine. The Fathers of the Church fought the Pythagorean globe for centuries and they talk about it a lot, in detail, and because it is all sourced from scripture, their opinions are the same. There were at least a dozen of them plus dozens of other Catholic notables supported them for centuries. And whether or not any of them got on a boat, they didn't need to sail around the world to be right because God Himself directs His Church. I honestly don't mean to be rude, but you gave at least two reasons why you are in defiance of your quote above. 1.Saying the teaching of the Fathers of the Church is erroneous because they couldn't back it up with science.  2.The Fathers of the Church are wrong for centuries because Thomas Aquinas couldn't be wrong in his personal opinion (which was never exactly forthcoming).

You're also missing key pieces. Saturated with heliocentric lies about distances and planets and gravity, people became confused (as they are to this today) because there was further development of a hybrid opinion that earth is a floating stationary globe with the sun going around it.  Perhaps some did it in a failed attempt to hold things in line with scripture and reason, others to be ecuмenical with the pagans and apostates who feigned proof earth is a globe. Who knows. The devil is the author of lies and it's always anything but the truth for him. Flat earth geocentrism is what the Fathers held and taught, and their model cannot be dismissed, according to the quote above. 

It wasn't my intention to steer your thread away or be rude in any way. I am a geocentric model guy, also working against modernist SSPX priests with false theories that are destroying faith in the Fathers, the Church and scripture. I merely responded to the erroneous parts in the piece. You're basically claiming the same things I am, but support a globe earth, which undermines your disagreement with Fr Scott and Fr Robinson. We have all the tools we need to fight those guys, but must hash out our differences in order to unite against them to shut their heresy down.  Between you and me, that would be the globe.       

Also, we can do this elsewhere if you like, but this article is easily proven full of error: Appendix C: The Fathers of the Church and Flat-Earthism

‘It must first be reiterated that with extraordinary few exceptions no ........person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. A round earth appears at least as early as the sixth century BC with Pythagoras, followed by Aristotle, Euclid, and Aristarchus, among others, in observing that the earth was a sphere. Although there were a few flat-earthers, by the time of Eratosthenes (300BC), followed by Strabo (300BC), Crates (200BC), and Ptolemy (1AD), the sphericity of the earth was accepted among the Greeks and Romans. Nor did this understanding change with the advent of Christianity. A few, at least two, and at most five early Christian fathers denied the spherically of earth by mistaking passages such as Ps.104:2-3 as geographical rather than metaphorical statements. On the other side tens of thousands of Christian theologians, poets, artists, and scientists took the spherical view throughout the early, medieval, and modern church. The point is that no ........ person believed otherwise.’ ---Jeffrey Russell: summary of Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians (1997)

Here are a few more heretics Tradman.

“All persons of Columbus’ day, very much including the Roman Catholic prelates, knew the Earth was round. The Venerable Bede (673-735AD) taught that the world was round, as did Bishop Virgilius of Salzburg (700-784AD), Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179), and Thomas Aquinas (1224-74). All four ended up saints. Sphere was the title of the most popular medieval textbook on astronomy, written by the English scholastic John of Sacrobosco (1195-1256). It informed that not only the Earth but all heavenly bodies are spherical.’ ---- Rodney Stark: Catholicism and Science, Stark, 9/2004.

https://www.cabinet.ox.ac.uk/john-sacrobosco-de-sphaera-mundi-venice-1490

https://www.maa.org/press/periodicals/convergence/mathematical-treasure-sacrobosco-s-de-sphaera


Re: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2022, 11:40:19 AM »
‘It must first be reiterated that with extraordinary few exceptions no ........person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. A round earth appears at least as early as the sixth century BC with Pythagoras, followed by Aristotle, Euclid, and Aristarchus, among others, in observing that the earth was a sphere. Although there were a few flat-earthers, by the time of Eratosthenes (300BC), followed by Strabo (300BC), Crates (200BC), and Ptolemy (1AD), the sphericity of the earth was accepted among the Greeks and Romans. Nor did this understanding change with the advent of Christianity. A few, at least two, and at most five early Christian fathers denied the spherically of earth by mistaking passages such as Ps.104:2-3 as geographical rather than metaphorical statements. On the other side tens of thousands of Christian theologians, poets, artists, and scientists took the spherical view throughout the early, medieval, and modern church. The point is that no ........ person believed otherwise.’ ---Jeffrey Russell: summary of Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians (1997)

Here are a few more heretics Tradman.

“All persons of Columbus’ day, very much including the Roman Catholic prelates, knew the Earth was round. The Venerable Bede (673-735AD) taught that the world was round, as did Bishop Virgilius of Salzburg (700-784AD), Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179), and Thomas Aquinas (1224-74). All four ended up saints. Sphere was the title of the most popular medieval textbook on astronomy, written by the English scholastic John of Sacrobosco (1195-1256). It informed that not only the Earth but all heavenly bodies are spherical.’ ---- Rodney Stark: Catholicism and Science, Stark, 9/2004.

https://www.cabinet.ox.ac.uk/john-sacrobosco-de-sphaera-mundi-venice-1490

https://www.maa.org/press/periodicals/convergence/mathematical-treasure-sacrobosco-s-de-sphaera
Those two quotes come directly from the pithy chapter "refuting" FE in The Earthmovers, p. 73.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2022, 02:18:53 PM »
‘It must first be reiterated that with extraordinary few exceptions no ........person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat. A round earth appears at least as early as the sixth century BC with Pythagoras, followed by Aristotle, Euclid, and Aristarchus, among others, in observing that the earth was a sphere. Although there were a few flat-earthers, by the time of Eratosthenes (300BC), followed by Strabo (300BC), Crates (200BC), and Ptolemy (1AD), the sphericity of the earth was accepted among the Greeks and Romans. Nor did this understanding change with the advent of Christianity. A few, at least two, and at most five early Christian fathers denied the spherically of earth by mistaking passages such as Ps.104:2-3 as geographical rather than metaphorical statements. On the other side tens of thousands of Christian theologians, poets, artists, and scientists took the spherical view throughout the early, medieval, and modern church. The point is that no ........ person believed otherwise.’ ---Jeffrey Russell: summary of Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians (1997)

Here are a few more heretics Tradman.

“All persons of Columbus’ day, very much including the Roman Catholic prelates, knew the Earth was round. The Venerable Bede (673-735AD) taught that the world was round, as did Bishop Virgilius of Salzburg (700-784AD), Hildegard of Bingen (1098-1179), and Thomas Aquinas (1224-74). All four ended up saints. Sphere was the title of the most popular medieval textbook on astronomy, written by the English scholastic John of Sacrobosco (1195-1256). It informed that not only the Earth but all heavenly bodies are spherical.’ ---- Rodney Stark: Catholicism and Science, Stark, 9/2004.

https://www.cabinet.ox.ac.uk/john-sacrobosco-de-sphaera-mundi-venice-1490

https://www.maa.org/press/periodicals/convergence/mathematical-treasure-sacrobosco-s-de-sphaera

Stupid arguments.  So we'll take the word of one "Jeffrey Russell" that (some) Church Fathers misinterpreted the Scriptures (where he has it right).

Second quote speaks about a "round" earth and it's not demonstrated what is meant by that.  One of his sources, Hildegard of Bingen, is cited as promoting a round earth, taken out of context, but then she later says that no one lives on the antipodes because that's where Sheol and the Great Deep are.  I believe you cited Hildegard, cassini, but for some reason a psychological block kept you from comprehending the second part of the passage which you yourself pasted in, that the bottom of the globe is where Sheol and the Great Deep are and that no one can live there.

Thirdly, and so what?

All the globe garbage is nothing more than confirmation bias from people who want to believe the earth is a globe, probably because they've been brainwashed into it and can't break free of the programming.

I have yet to read Sungenis' book as he at least attempts to take the subject seriously, where as the vast majority of globers simply dismiss it out of hand with facile arguments applied with confirmation bias (and Sungenis agrees).

Offline Tradman

  • Supporter
Re: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2022, 03:44:58 PM »
Stupid arguments.  So we'll take the word of one "Jeffrey Russell" that (some) Church Fathers misinterpreted the Scriptures (where he has it right).

Second quote speaks about a "round" earth and it's not demonstrated what is meant by that.  One of his sources, Hildegard of Bingen, is cited as promoting a round earth, taken out of context, but then she later says that no one lives on the antipodes because that's where Sheol and the Great Deep are.  I believe you cited Hildegard, cassini, but for some reason a psychological block kept you from comprehending the second part of the passage which you yourself pasted in, that the bottom of the globe is where Sheol and the Great Deep are and that no one can live there.

Thirdly, and so what?

All the globe garbage is nothing more than confirmation bias from people who want to believe the earth is a globe, probably because they've been brainwashed into it and can't break free of the programming.

I have yet to read Sungenis' book as he at least attempts to take the subject seriously, where as the vast majority of globers simply dismiss it out of hand with facile arguments applied with confirmation bias (and Sungenis agrees).
Great response. 

I recommend Sungenis' book for one reason: to see how poorly he argues against flat earth. Had he really considered flat earth might be the truth he would have found answers to the arguments that he failed to address properly. As you read along, it's obvious he's not really getting into the subject with the intent to get to the bottom of anything, but to prove that his view going into the work is supported. It's frustrating to see how deeply the programming goes, especially for someone like Sungenis who has done a lot of good for the faith. But it also helps you have empathy for the struggle the Fathers endured.