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Author Topic: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX  (Read 7798 times)

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Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« on: August 04, 2022, 07:02:32 AM »
CHARITY posted:
Here's some more of Fr. Scott.  You can see how this kind of thinking in the SSPX helped set the stage for Fr. Paul Robinson's modernist book The Realist Guide to Religion and Science.  At 10:01 Fr. Scott starts strongly deriding geocentrists.  In the process he even confuses the words rotate and revolve.  (Geocentrism, of course, holds that the Earth is motionless.  It neither rotates nor revolves.)


Again Charity, thanks for putting up this video on creation as taught within the SSPX these days. I thought Fr Paul Robinson SSPX was the 'faith and science' spokes-priest for the Society and was not aware Fr Peter Scott was another. Now I have listened to his talk on this video and, like Fr Robinson's book, I cannot believe the ignorance of it in so many ways.

I deliberately started a new thread on this post because I notice the original thread it was on was soon dominated by flat-earth posts, a subject that, unlike other aspects of cosmology, has never had any part in Catholic creation theology or heresy in the Church's history. I also wanted to show readers of CIF the damage done to Creation theology by way of the Galilean reformation, when their 'science' took over from supernatural faith. Yes, straight from the beginning in the above video, this Fr Scott (SSPX) asserted that any understanding of God's immediate creation must now be 'science-friendly.'

In 1981, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (b.1927) later elected Pope Benedict XVI (2005-15 retired), attempted a Creation catechesis for adults in four Lenten homilies in the cathedral of Munich. These talks were later published in a book called In the Beginning.  The reason for the subject matter, he wrote, was that the Creation account is noticeably and nearly completely absent from Catholic catechesis, preaching and even theology today. He then went on to make a joke of the literal Genesis, even saying

‘The account [in Genesis] tells us that sin begets sin, and that therefore all the sins of history are interlinked. Theology refers to this state of affairs by the certainly misleading and imprecise term ‘original sin.’ What does this mean? Nothing seems to us today to be stranger or, indeed, more absurd than to insist upon original sin, since, according to our way of thinking, guilt can only be something very personal and since God does not run a cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρ, in which one’s relatives are imprisoned, because he is a liberating God of love, who calls each one by name. What does original sin mean, then, when we interpret it correctly?....

That then is the thinking that got Cardinal Ratzinger elected as Pope Benedict XVI. I can show you more of his modern 'science' thinking if you want.

The six days of creation - Catechism of Trent - Fr. Peter Scott SSPX begins by naming his talk after the Catechism of Trent. This is the first modernist trick and needs to be exposed for what it is, .

Let us actually see what the original Catechism of Trent taught::

‘The words heaven and Earth include all things that the heavens and the Earth contain… He also gave to the sun its brilliancy, and to the moon and stars their beauty; and that they may be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years. He so ordered the celestial bodies in a certain and uniform course that nothing varies more than their continual revolution, while nothing is more fixed than their variety…. The Earth also God commanded to stand in the midst of the world, rooted in its own foundations (Psa. 103:5).’--- The Catechism of Trent:

Fr Scott begins his talk with the usual pro-Galilean encyclical of Leo XIII that was written in 1893 to try to stop the huge reinterpretation of Scripture that occurred after Pope Pius VII in 1820 allowed a heliocentric meaning to those literal geocentric revelations in Scriptures defended by the Church in 1616 and 1633. That was a signal to 'Biblical scholars' that scientific facts could be used to correct hereto mistaken readings of revelations in the Bible. Here is what Pope Leo XIII wrote:

‘18: To understand how just is the rule here formulated we must remember, first, that the sacred writers, or to speak more accurately, the Holy Ghost “Who spoke by them, did not intend to teach men these things (that is to say, the essential nature of the things of the visible universe), things in no way profitable unto salvation” (St Augustine). Hence, they did not seek to penetrate the secrets of nature, but rather described and dealt with things in more or less figurative language, or in terms which were commonly used at the time, and which in many instances are in daily use at this day, even by the most eminent men of science [Like ‘sunrise’ and ‘sunset’?]. ---- Providentissimus deus.

That paragraph above became the teaching of the Church from 1893 onward, not since Christ or Trent, but since 1893 as can be found everywhere in Catholic opinion, right in the middle of the 'science' driven Modernist reformation of the time as Pope St Piux X's Pascendi was aware of. So, with all the new theories of the 'enlightenment' like heliocentrism, the evolution of the universe, the Earth and all on it, the direct supernatural creation by God was replaced by a Big Bang evolved one that removed Genesis from true supernatural and natural history to a book of myths and tales. From then on any catechesis on creation had to involve the Big Bang origins, all trying to make both a Big Bang creation or a God arranged creation as Catholic as they could. Long gone was the direct creation by God alone.

Re: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2022, 07:10:14 AM »
Fr Scott begins (7.55 min) with the new dogma invented by the Protestant Georg Rheticus (1514-1574) who helped Copernicus get his book on heliocentrism out: 'that the Bible was not written to show us how the heavens go, but only how to go to heaven.' Fr Scott then quotes Leo XIII's Providentissimus deus because in it he says that science can make corrections to misinterpreted parts of Scripture. Pope Leo XIII had to say that because his predecessors had gone along with Pius VII's allowance of heliocentrism to replace previous literal geocentric meanings. Straight away (9-10 min) Fr Scott denies that the Scriptures actually reveal the sun moves around the Earth, just as Galileo said, that it was only describing what man sees and not as a truth.

Now if Fr Scott did his homework, had more faith in Catholicism than in his intellectual pride in 'science,' He might have noticed that in Leo XIII Providentissimus deus it confirms that if all the fathers agree on a matter concerning the meaning of Scripture, as the Council of Trent taught, then that cannot be changed. In 1616 the heresy was made formal because it contradicted all of the Fathers.  Moreover, if Fr Scott ever read Pope Benedict XV's Spiritus Paraclitus He would have read:

[19] ‘Yet no one can pretend that certain recent writers really adhere to these limitations. For while conceding that inspiration extends to every phrase -- and, indeed, to every single word of Scripture -- yet, by endeavouring to distinguish between what they style the primary or religious and the secondary or profane element in the Bible, they claim that the effect of inspiration -- namely, absolute truth and immunity from error -- are to be restricted to that primary or religious element. Their notion is that only what concerns religion is intended and taught by God in Scripture, and that all the rest -- things concerning “profane knowledge” [how the heavens go], the garments in which Divine truth is presented -- God merely permits, and even leaves to the individual author’s greater or less knowledge. Small wonder, then, that in their view a considerable number of things occur in the Bible touching physical science, history and the like, which cannot be reconciled with modern progress in science.
[20] Some even maintain that these views do not conflict with what our predecessor laid down since -- so they claim -- he said that the sacred writers spoke in accordance with the external -- and thus deceptive -- appearance of things in nature. But the Pontiff's own words show that this is a rash and false deduction. For sound philosophy teaches that the senses can never be deceived as regards their own proper and immediate object. Therefore, from the merely external appearance of things -- of which, of course, we have always to take account as Pope Leo XIII, following in the footsteps of St. Augustine and St. Thomas, most wisely remarks --we can never conclude that there is any error in Sacred Scripture….’

Fr Scott totally ignores the above teaching. At (14.58 min) he revises the Galileo case according to the lie that geocentrism was proven wrong. He actually tell his unfortunate listeners Galileo was not condemned for his heliocentrism but because of his defiance of the authority of the Church. Now that is the sort of nonsense they have to make up in the wake of that 1820 U-turn. The authority of the Church said that heliocentrism was formal heresy. Oh, and by the way, it still is, never having been abrogated.

This sort of twisting the facts and condemnation is normal since 1820 in order to make that U-turn look orthodox. Now Fr Scott, if geocentrism and the Church up to 1820 was proven wrong, then why did Einstein have to invent his STR and GTR? Science now admits geocentrism was never proven wrong, so why are you defending false science and not the Council of Trent and the popes and theologians of 1616 and 1633 that defined your opinion as FORMAL HERESY. Do you think you know better than all the Fathers, all the popes, saints and theologians up to 1741 at least, for that is what you are asserting in this diatribe of a Catholic homily.

At (15.40) Fr Scott refers to Modernism in a way that infers to read the Scriptures geocentrically is typically modernist. Modernism, according to St Pius X, he says correctly, was a false interpretation of Scripture. Now the first modernist, according to the judgement of three popes, Paul V, Urban VIII and Alexander VII, was Galileo, with his updated reading of Scripture, the very same as Fr Scott and Fr Robinson teach to their seminarians, pupils and any who listen to then like this video up on Google.
He then goes on to quote the Biblical Commission of 1909 about age of universe etc. Now remember all these 'teachings' are post-1820 U-turn decisions, when science had aged the universe and Earth Billions of years old. They are not traditional Catholic teachings, but MODERN ones if you see what I mean. So if you want a faith based on 'true' science as Fr Scott and fr Robinson want, then you quote the modern ones as Catholic teachings.

Now listen carefully to (23.30) and you will hear what sounds like a demon asking questions to draw out more of this real modernism from Fr Scott. At (24.50) Fr Scott gets to 'when all of the Fathers are in agreement then they all testify to the teaching of Christ and the Apostles. Well here is why the Church of 1616 defined and condemned Fr Scott's heliocentrism as formal heresy:

(1) “That the sun is in the centre of the world and altogether immovable by local movement,” was unanimously declared to be “foolish, philosophically absurd, and formally heretical [denial of a revelation by God] inasmuch as it expressly contradicts the declarations of Holy Scripture in many passages, according to the proper meaning of the language used, and the sense in which they have been expounded and understood by [all] the Fathers and theologians.”

At (32.00 min) we have the Biblical Commission tell us that we cannot interpret Genesis scientifically. Now this is another modernist trick used to confuse. Genesis describes the supernatural creation of everything by God. Thus we cannot describe creation scientifically yes. But what about the Big Bangers and Pius XII attempt at the pontifical Academy of Sciences in 1952, and Fr Robinson's book, to make it the creation act of God? But what about the history in Genesis. Does that go too under the auspices of 'science?' Don't the Modernists dismiss this and put in their millions of years?

At (34.35 min) we have Fr Scott saying the Biblical Commission confirmed Moses as the author of Genesis. Then, straight away, Fr Scott warns us against the literary form that Genesis was written in. He says the Modernists, that is those who read Genesis literally, that is us Creationists. Fr Scott calls the literary form ‘which is much closer to fiction than reality.’(35.39 min). He then tells us Pope Leo XIII said it was written for ‘simple people’ ‘is not a classical historical narrative, not history as it would have been related by the Romans or the Greeks so it is not meant to be historical facts although the essential truths are historical facts.’  And that is what is declared by the Biblical Commission.’

Again here is what Pope Benedict says Pope Leo XIII taught;
[22.] Those, too, who hold that the historical portions of Scripture do not rest on the absolute truth of the facts but merely upon what they are pleased to term their relative truth, namely, what people then commonly thought, are - no less than are the aforementioned critics - out of harmony with the Church's teaching, which is endorsed by the testimony of Jerome and other Fathers. Yet they are not afraid to deduce such views from the words of Leo XIII on the ground that he allowed that the principles he had laid down touching the things of nature could be applied to historical things as well. Hence they maintain that precisely as the sacred writers spoke of physical things according to appearance, so, too, while ignorant of the facts, they narrated them in accordance with general opinion or even on baseless evidence; neither do they tell us the sources whence they derived their knowledge, nor do they make other peoples' narrative their own. Such views are clearly false, and constitute a calumny on our predecessor. After all, what analogy is there between physics and history? For whereas physics is concerned with "sensible appearances" and must consequently square with phenomena, history on the contrary, must square with the facts, since history is the written account of events as they actually occurred. If we were to accept such views, how could we maintain the truth insisted on throughout Leo XIII's Encyclical - viz. that the sacred narrative is absolutely free from error? --- Spiritus Paraclitus

For if you did believe Moses, you would believe Me also;
for he wrote of Me.(John 5:46)

Next came the opinion that we are not obliged to hold the world is 5,000 years old, it could be millions of years old.’ (56.58 min) So, were the two popes above telling us that Moses wrote down the truth but that this truth could be very different? See the chaos that there long-ages fraud has done to Scripture. I have no doubt that up to modern times, the age of the world was taken for granted to be that of Moses so there was no need to make things like that a dogma..

‘As to the Roman Church, about 1580 there was published by authority of Pope Gregory XIII the Roman Martyrology, and this, both as originally published and as revised in 1640 under Pope Urban VIII, declared that the creation of man took place 5199 years before Christ.’ ---- A. White: A History, p.253.

But, like everything else in traditional creation theology, even that is now gone.


Finally notice how even BC and AD have been replaced by BCE before common era and CE common era.


Online Ladislaus

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Re: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2022, 09:18:35 AM »
That quote from Pope Benedict XV, which I haven't seen before, perfectly describes (i.e. condemns, rejects) Father Scott's position.

Offline Matthew

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Re: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2022, 10:40:09 AM »

Finally notice how even BC and AD have been replaced by BCE before common era and CE common era.

Fr. Scott actually used these militant atheist abbreviations? You're kidding! Please tell me I'm misunderstanding you.

EDIT: Cassini later answered that no, Fr. Scott did not use these atheist abbreviations. Whew!
I'm leaving my "If he did..." commentary, because it still PARTLY (MOSTLY?) applies. Basically Fr. Scott is not AS FAR GONE down the Modernist rabbit-hole as he would be, if he were using BCE and CE -- but he's still starting down that path all the same. It's just a question of degrees.

If Fr. Scott is going that far down the road of compromise, I'd say you need to avoid his Masses, or at least his sermons, for the sake of your Faith. This is NOT a minor issue. This isn't like failing to name the J**, where many keep their head down out of prudence. BCE/CE is NOT required to be used by priests today. I bet plenty of FSSP priests still use BC/AD.

Assuming I'm not misunderstanding you, and that Fr. Scott has adopted those militantly anti-God terms for before and after Christ, then he is clearly infected with Modernism to a large degree, and should be AVOIDED just as we avoid other Modernists, usually in the Conciliar Church.

But make no mistake. We don't avoid Novus Ordo priests because we disagree with them on architecture, music, personal taste, or because they're accepted by the mainstream Catholic Church. It's not their jurisdiction/authority/regular status with the Church that we are allergic to. It's MODERNISM, plain and simple.

In other words, if I'm going to avoid Fr. Bob, who is apparently "sent" by the visible, mainstream Catholic Church, because he is suspect of Modernism -- I do it to protect my Faith, which is the highest law -- then I must a fortiori (even more so) reject "Latin Mass" priests as well, if they are equally suspect of Modernism. Again, Trad priests don't even have the charism of jurisdiction, being "sent" by the bishop with jurisdiction, regular status with the Catholic Church authorities, etc.

If I'm going to jump off a cruise ship to save my life, because it sprung a leak, then I most certainly will abandon a mere lifeboat if it has the same leak! Why would I be more attached to a mere lifeboat than the oceanliner I originally bought a ticket for?

Re: Creation, according to Fr Scott, another priest of the SSPX
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2022, 11:59:26 AM »
Now listen carefully to (23.30) and you will hear what sounds like a demon asking questions to draw out more of this real modernism from Fr Scott. A
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