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Poll

What model do you believe most accurately describes the cosmos?

Modern Science:  earth revolves around barycenter of solar system as solar system moves through space, etc.
25 (25.3%)
Geocentrism:  earth is stationary, shaped like a globe, and the vast universe revolves around it
34 (34.3%)
Flat Earth:  earth is stationary, the surface we live on is flat, covered by a physical firmament, and the universe is closer than we're told
31 (31.3%)
Other
9 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 91

Author Topic: Cosmology Poll  (Read 63911 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Cosmology Poll
« Reply #60 on: August 23, 2022, 04:45:27 PM »
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  • Even the DaVinci one that Dr. Sungenis uses for the cover of his book.  If you look, Our Lord's Hand through the transparent orb gives the appearance of land at the bottom and his blue garment makes it look like the sky ... and a couple stars can be seen in the blue.  Dr. Sungenis read into this a reference to NASA's globe, but I don't think so.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #61 on: August 23, 2022, 04:46:58 PM »
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  • Enjoy:



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #62 on: August 23, 2022, 04:49:55 PM »
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  • In this version you can see half of the upper hemisphere look dark (as in night?)



    This Salvator Mundi pose seems to have been replicated, including by DaVinci ... and it's not indicative of the NASA globe.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #63 on: August 23, 2022, 04:51:58 PM »
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  • Another Salvator Mundi.  See the one on the left:


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #64 on: August 23, 2022, 04:55:38 PM »
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  • Didn't you have one from a Dutch artist that was really interesting?  I can't find it now.
    Was it this one from Hieronymous Bosch? It's the outer panel of his "Garden of Earthly Delights"
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #65 on: August 23, 2022, 04:57:47 PM »
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  • Here's an article about this common theme in the Flemish schools:
    https://artmirrorsart.wordpress.com/2017/04/09/mirror-spheres-or-adventures-of-globus-cruciger-in-flanders/



    from the article:

    Quote
    It looks like a convex mirror but it is not quite it. The closest analogue that comes to mind is those souvenir ‘snow globes‘ that show miniature scenes of various kinds inside their glass balls, often with an effect of the ‘falling snow’ when shaken.  With snow or without, this orb does not seem to reflect but rather presents, displays the world inside it, somewhat similar to an old TV set.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #66 on: August 23, 2022, 04:59:13 PM »
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  • Was it this one from Hieronymous Bosch? It's the outer panel of his "Garden of Earthly Delights"

    Yes, that's the one!  Thank you.  It could be more clear than it is there.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #67 on: August 23, 2022, 05:05:59 PM »
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  • Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #68 on: August 23, 2022, 05:09:58 PM »
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  • author of this fine article points out that by the 17th century ...

    Quote
    With time the image of Christ holding the Earth globe became widespread, and during the Baroque Period, from the middle of the 17the century on, it is nearly a default version.  At the same time we see gradual disappearance of the ‘glass orbs’ that became fairly exceptional.

    After the Galileo revolution, it starts to get replaced with this --


    So it was only LATER that the "earth globe" replaces the original/traditional "snow globe" model.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #69 on: August 23, 2022, 05:19:42 PM »
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  • author of this fine article points out that by the 17th century ...

    After the Galileo revolution, it starts to get replaced with this --


    So it was only LATER that the "earth globe" replaces the original/traditional "snow globe" model.
    And interestingly, the Challoner Douay-Rheims Bible, (which contains "globe" for gyrum, which was previously "compass" in the 1610 DR Old Testament) was published in the 18th century, 1749-52.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #70 on: August 23, 2022, 05:21:11 PM »
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  • This is the constant source of confusion.  Yes, the WORLD is understood to be a globe, but that's due to the world including the firmament.  Part of the bias here that always interprets globe or sphere as NASA's globe/sphere is a denial that the Church Fathers, and all Catholics though the Middle Ages, believed that there is a dome / sphere / or at least hemisphere shaped solid firmament that surrounds the earth.  This does not translate into a belief that people walk around on a globe SURFACE of the earth.
    I understand what you are saying, and I couldn't agree more that NASA is giving us absolute fabrication. They have literally invented their own phantasy universe and hawked it to the world, as if it were real. I suppose that the great majority of human beings believe that they are seeing photos of actual planets, stars, and galaxies, and not digital art.

    Now it seems to me that what the ѕуηαgσgυє is especially pushing is a motile, spinning earth, in a motile, spinning, expanding, limitless, universe - the ever self-diffusing product of the original energy burst of the "big bang," where absolutely nothing - not a body or even a particle - is at absolute rest. 

    Up until relatively recently, it seems to me, the sphericality of the earth was not in controversy; and, speaking for myself, though I often think about NASA faking pics of the celestial bodies, I never before gave consideration to the idea that their pics of the earth are totally fake. 

    Is that what you are asserting? That all those pics of earth from outer space are nothing more than wall art?


    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #71 on: August 23, 2022, 05:23:20 PM »
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  • Quickly, let me just thank you fellers for posting so many icons! Great stuff.

    Now let me look at them  :popcorn:

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #72 on: August 23, 2022, 05:35:36 PM »
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  • I'm not sure what to believe, but I do know that I have come to question just about everything I've been taught in the public schools.

    ETA:  I am thoroughly enjoying the non-NASA globe pics.  

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #73 on: August 23, 2022, 05:50:01 PM »
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  • author of this fine article points out that by the 17th century ...

    After the Galileo revolution, it starts to get replaced with this --


    So it was only LATER that the "earth globe" replaces the original/traditional "snow globe" model.
    Fascinating.

    Offline Simeon

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    Re: Cosmology Poll
    « Reply #74 on: August 23, 2022, 05:58:20 PM »
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  • The iconography here plainly signifies, not the material composition of the finite universe, but the Orders of Creation and Redemption. You have Jesus Christ, Pantocrater, Who Rules over the entire fabric of created reality, Heaven inclusive. Here we see the Church Triumphant, Militant, and Suffering; and also the chasms of hell. 

    The phraseology of the Church typically makes the earth the relative center of all things, by designating locations in relation to it. Thus Heaven is above the earth, and the realms of Purgatory and Hell are under the earth. This icon perfectly represents such phraseology. The globe in the middle represents the earth, God's footstool. 

    What is interesting philosophically is the idea of motion. There is no absolute motion in hell - you are fixed there for all eternity. The same for Heaven, Eternal Beatitude in the Eternal Present of God. Interestingly, Purgatory, which is closest to earth, is characterized by some motility. Purgatory is not a fixed abode, thus there is real motion there. Note that there are Angels in Purgatory helping to raise souls up, and that the highest souls in Purgatory are beckoning the earth, from whence they receive indulgences. The bodies in hell are facing downwards, where they will fall, in merely apparent motion, for all eternity.

    My takeaway from this icon is twofold: One, that there are both logical and theological reasons why the earth must be fixed in the center of the universe. And perhaps this is why the Church explicitly teaches geocentrism. 

    When we think of the centrality of the earth, and especially because we think in therms of a sphere, we envision concentric rings with the earth in the center. A lateral, 2-dimension plane of sorts. But if we think directionally, which is much more in keeping with the phraseology of the Church, we locate things in accordance with their position relative to the earth - above or below.

    The very word 'footstool' signifies the idea of beneath. 

    Secondly, Christ, Who is not only our Creator, Redeemer, and King, but also our Teacher and Exemplar, is certainly going to rest His feet on the earth, the location of the greatest flux, change, and movement, the place of the greatest danger to souls, and of the greatest need for His constant intervention.

    Rule Thou in the midst of Thy enemies. 

    How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, of them that bring glad tidings of good things!


    Upon the earth He rests His feet,
    Upon the earth where there is no rest. 
    The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air nests,
    But the Son of man hath not where to lay His head.
    For upon the earth, there is no rest.