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Poll

What model do you believe most accurately describes the cosmos?

Modern Science:  earth revolves around barycenter of solar system as solar system moves through space, etc.
25 (25%)
Geocentrism:  earth is stationary, shaped like a globe, and the vast universe revolves around it
35 (35%)
Flat Earth:  earth is stationary, the surface we live on is flat, covered by a physical firmament, and the universe is closer than we're told
31 (31%)
Other
9 (9%)

Total Members Voted: 92

Author Topic: Cosmology Poll  (Read 85294 times)

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Re: Cosmology Poll
« Reply #190 on: September 28, 2022, 12:41:32 AM »

Just got a phone call as I was writing this to tell me an old friend has just died. Don was his name, a great Catholic whose wife died some time ago. She wanted to die because the world has been taken over by Satan. A prayer for the repose of his soul would be appreciated.
I suppose we have to get our priorities right
:pray:

Re: Cosmology Poll
« Reply #191 on: September 28, 2022, 04:20:09 AM »
Here is as good a meaning as you will get.

The firmament is the curve of the sky, especially if you imagine it as a solid surface. You can describe the sky at night as a firmament shining with stars.

The word firmament comes from the Latin firmus, or "firm," and this description of the sky as something solid reflects ancient ideas of the way the universe was constructed. The first stargazers imagined the sky as a sphere, 

My understanding of the firmament is the space created as the universe. Both FEs and GEs know that outside the Earth is that space. As for the waters well the clouds for one are waters and they are separated from the part of the firmament between the Earth and the clouds. There is no big mystery to this as some make out. These same waters would be used by God to flood the whole Earth.

So, let us see this in the light of the private revelations to Sister Mary of Jesus, known as Mary of Agreda (1602-1665), a nun known to have bilocated over 500 times to America without leaving her convent in Spain. The following are insights, dictated to her, she said, by the Virgin Mary herself in 1637, a mere four years after Galileo’s trial. Her three-volume work was entitled; ‘The Mystical City of God’ also known as ‘The Divine History and Life of the Virgin Mother of God.’ These revelations to Venerable Maria, whose body now lies miraculously incorrupt in a Franciscan Monastery in Spain, have withstood many years of investigation and even misinterpretation that caused them to be placed on the Index in 1681 but lifted after 3 months of inspection before receiving approbations from popes as a way to gain a deeper understanding of the Catholic faith in line with traditional Church teaching.

Mary of Agreda wrote: 'In the same instant, and as it were in the third and last place, God determined to create a locality and an abode, where the incarnate Word and his Mother should converse and dwell. For them primarily He created the heaven [the firmament] and Earth with its stars and elements and all that is contained in them . Of the first day Moses says that “In the beginning God created heaven and Earth.” And before creating intellectual and rational creatures, desiring also the order of executing these works to be most perfect, He created heaven for angels and men, and the Earth as a place of pilgrimage for mortals. These places are so adapted to their end and so perfect that as [King] David says of them, the heavens publish the glory of the Lord, the firmament and the Earth announce the glory of the work of his hands (Ps.18:2)… Of the Earth Moses says that it was void, which he does not say of the heavens, for God had created the angels at the instant indicated by the word of Moses: “God said: Let there be light, and light was made.” He speaks here not only of material light, but also of the intellectual or angelic lights… God created the Earth co-jointly with the heavens in order to call into existence hell in its centre; for, at the instant of its creation, there were left in the interior of that globe, spacious and wide cavities, suitable for hell, purgatory and limbo. And in hell was created at the same time material fire and other requisites, which now serve for the punishment of the damned.'
Again, it's ambiguous. Could be a snow globe. I'll concede that this is the best citation from the globe side I've seen so far since the context actually indicates a globe earth more than a snow globe.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Cosmology Poll
« Reply #192 on: September 28, 2022, 06:22:32 AM »
This notion of firmament being “space” is both Modernistic and absurd.  Clearly the Church Fathers unanimously believed that it was an actual substance, with some mentions of debates regarding what it was made of.  So I am surprised to see cassini promoting the idea.  He’s such a literalist about how the sun rising means that it moves and can’t be a matter of perspective and yet the firmament is space?  Even Sungenis sees this, coming up with a theory about infinitely-dense matter.  While that’s a stretch, he tacitly admits that the Fathers clearly did not believe that it was empty space.  For them, it was something solid that keeps literal waters from inundating the earth.  There’s absolutely no doubt about that.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Cosmology Poll
« Reply #193 on: September 28, 2022, 06:26:53 AM »
But cassini does mention that the sky was conceived of as a sphere.  Correct, and this is precisely what the Church Fathers mean when they refer to the world as a sphere ... and not NASA’s ball on which people walk upside down.  First quote from Sungenis in his book is from St. Ambrose. But saint Ambrose refers to the “sphere” as having water flowing off of it.  Imagined as ball earth that would mean that waters are constantly flowing off the surface of the earth ... which is absurd.

Offline Tradman

  • Supporter
Re: Cosmology Poll
« Reply #194 on: September 28, 2022, 09:32:19 AM »
But cassini does mention that the sky was conceived of as a sphere.  Correct, and this is precisely what the Church Fathers mean when they refer to the world as a sphere ... and not NASA’s ball on which people walk upside down.  First quote from Sungenis in his book is from St. Ambrose. But saint Ambrose refers to the “sphere” as having water flowing off of it.  Imagined as ball earth that would mean that waters are constantly flowing off the surface of the earth ... which is absurd.
People also transpose meanings of words on a regular basis not comprehending what they're doing.  Otherwise, who would think the word circle means ball?