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Offline cassini

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Few will know that in his book De revolutionibus Copernicus, dedicated to Pope Paul III, placed in his introduction to Book ONE, his reasoning why RELATIVITY prevents science from establishing the order of the universe, his reasoning why the universe is GLOBAL, why the Earth is global, and why a geocentric moving stars would result in an EXPANDING UNIVERSE.


The World is Spherical: In the beginning we should remark that the world is globe-shaped, whether because this figure is the most perfect of all, as it is an integral whole and needs no joints; or because this figure is the one having the greatest volume and thus is especially suitable for that which is going to comprehend and concerve all things; or even because the separate parts of the world, i.e., the sun, moon and stars are viewed under this form, as is apparent in the case of drops of water and other liquid bodies, when they become delimited of themselves. And so no one would say that this form belongs to heavenly bodies.’

Paradoxically, the above spherical world ‘viewed under this form’ is the geocentric model. Later Copernicus states that; ‘For movement is the most powerful reason wherewith they try to conclude that the universe is finite.’ We agree, but it is a rotating universe of the geocentric system that proves the universe cannot be infinite, infinity being one of the condemned Pythagorean heresies of the past. A heliocentric universe with its fixed stars could be said to be infinite in distance. But an infinite universe cannot turn in 24 hours, only a finite one can do that
Copernicus said: 'This art [the science of the universe]which is as it were the head of the all the liberal arts and the one most worthy of a free man leans upon nearly all the other branches of mathematics, arithmetic, geometry, optics, geodesy, mechanics, and whatever others, all offer themselves in its service.' Note GEODESY, the measurement of lengthy Earth sections that reveal its curve.
The Earth is Spherical: The Earth is globe-shaped too, since on every side it rests upon its centre. But it is not perceived straightaway to be a perfect sphere, on account of the great heights of its mountains and the lowness of its valleys, thought they modify its universal roundness to only a very small extent. That is made clear in in this way. For when people journey northwards from anywhere, the northern vortex of the axis of daily revolution gradually moves overhead, and the other moves downward to the same extent; and many stars situated to the north are seen not to set, and many to the south are seen not to rise anymore….

Moreover, the inclinations of the poles have everywhere the same ratio with places at equal distances from the poles of the Earth and that happens in no other figure except the spherical. Add to this the fact that the inhabitants of the East do not perceive the evening eclipse of the sun and moon; nor the inhabitants of the West, the morning eclipses; while those who live in the middle regions – some see them earlier and some later. Moreover, it is admitted that water, which by its nature flows, always seeks lower places – the same way as earth – and does not climb up the shore any further than the convexity of the shore allows.  

Now as the dogs in the street know, in 1616 the theologians of the Holy Office examined this book and others to eliminate or correct any anto-Scriptural or Catholic tenets of faith. Four of the Cardinals, including Robert Bellarmine, the most learned of theologians at the time of the Reformation, had presided over the seven year trial of Bruno and erxamined every one of the many Pythagorean heresies Bruno held. Not even an altar-boy suggested the global earth of St Thomas Aquinas and Copernicus was in any way contrary to the Bible or catholic belief IN ANY WAY.

So any assertion that a flat earth is revealed in Scripture or is a Catholic tenet, is anti-Catholic, and no amount of 'disliking' posters who tell readers this will change that. It has become perfectly plain to me that there is something NASTY that goes along with flat-earthism, that demonstrates to me anything but a Catholic mind.

Offline WholeFoodsTrad

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Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2018, 06:32:41 AM »
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  • Excellent and easy to follow video (even for the spherically possessed :jester:) showing that The Bible does indeed depict a Flat and Stationary Earth.  



    40  Bible verses that prove the Earth is FLAT!

    (might want to skip ahead past the introduction to minute 7)
    "Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night
    may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #2 on: March 08, 2018, 07:42:21 AM »
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  • THE COUNCIL OF TRENT

    ‘Furthermore, in order to curb imprudent clever persons, the synod decrees that no one who relies on his own judgement in matters of faith and morals, which pertain to the building up of Christian doctrine, and that no one who distorts the Sacred Scripture according to his own opinions, shall dare to interpret the said Sacred Scripture contrary to that sense that is held by holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge regarding the true sense and interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers, even though interpretations of this kind were never intended to be brought to light. Let those who shall oppose this be reported by their ordinaries and be punished with the penalties prescribed by law.’ -- (Denzinger - 786)

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #3 on: March 08, 2018, 09:08:39 AM »
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  • The idea that a sphere is a religious "shape" and 'perfect' comes from the sect of Pythagoras and his false religion, which is a form of Phoenician Ba'al worship.

    It is NOT from God. Not from Christianity.

    God's perfect shape is a circle, not a ba'al.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 10:52:03 AM »
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  • Few will know that in his book De revolutionibus Copernicus, dedicated to Pope Paul III, placed in his introduction to Book ONE, his reasoning why RELATIVITY prevents science from establishing the order of the universe, his reasoning why the universe is GLOBAL, why the Earth is global, and why a geocentric moving stars would result in an EXPANDING UNIVERSE.


    The World is Spherical: In the beginning we should remark that the world is globe-shaped, whether because this figure is the most perfect of all, as it is an integral whole and needs no joints; or because this figure is the one having the greatest volume and thus is especially suitable for that which is going to comprehend and concerve all things; or even because the separate parts of the world, i.e., the sun, moon and stars are viewed under this form, as is apparent in the case of drops of water and other liquid bodies, when they become delimited of themselves. And so no one would say that this form belongs to heavenly bodies.’

    Paradoxically, the above spherical world ‘viewed under this form’ is the geocentric model. Later Copernicus states that; ‘For movement is the most powerful reason wherewith they try to conclude that the universe is finite.’ We agree, but it is a rotating universe of the geocentric system that proves the universe cannot be infinite, infinity being one of the condemned Pythagorean heresies of the past. A heliocentric universe with its fixed stars could be said to be infinite in distance. But an infinite universe cannot turn in 24 hours, only a finite one can do that
    Copernicus said: 'This art [the science of the universe]which is as it were the head of the all the liberal arts and the one most worthy of a free man leans upon nearly all the other branches of mathematics, arithmetic, geometry, optics, geodesy, mechanics, and whatever others, all offer themselves in its service.' Note GEODESY, the measurement of lengthy Earth sections that reveal its curve.
    The Earth is Spherical: The Earth is globe-shaped too, since on every side it rests upon its centre. But it is not perceived straightaway to be a perfect sphere, on account of the great heights of its mountains and the lowness of its valleys, thought they modify its universal roundness to only a very small extent. That is made clear in in this way. For when people journey northwards from anywhere, the northern vortex of the axis of daily revolution gradually moves overhead, and the other moves downward to the same extent; and many stars situated to the north are seen not to set, and many to the south are seen not to rise anymore….

    Moreover, the inclinations of the poles have everywhere the same ratio with places at equal distances from the poles of the Earth and that happens in no other figure except the spherical. Add to this the fact that the inhabitants of the East do not perceive the evening eclipse of the sun and moon; nor the inhabitants of the West, the morning eclipses; while those who live in the middle regions – some see them earlier and some later. Moreover, it is admitted that water, which by its nature flows, always seeks lower places – the same way as earth – and does not climb up the shore any further than the convexity of the shore allows.  

    Now as the dogs in the street know, in 1616 the theologians of the Holy Office examined this book and others to eliminate or correct any anto-Scriptural or Catholic tenets of faith. Four of the Cardinals, including Robert Bellarmine, the most learned of theologians at the time of the Reformation, had presided over the seven year trial of Bruno and erxamined every one of the many Pythagorean heresies Bruno held. Not even an altar-boy suggested the global earth of St Thomas Aquinas and Copernicus was in any way contrary to the Bible or catholic belief IN ANY WAY.

    So any assertion that a flat earth is revealed in Scripture or is a Catholic tenet, is anti-Catholic, and no amount of 'disliking' posters who tell readers this will change that. It has become perfectly plain to me that there is something NASTY that goes along with flat-earthism, that demonstrates to me anything but a Catholic mind.

    Please show us clear Church teaching that states that we are required to believe that the earth is a globe. 


    Offline cassini

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #5 on: March 08, 2018, 11:24:04 AM »
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  • Please show us clear Church teaching that states that we are required to believe that the earth is a globe.

    Meg, where did I ever suggest the Church requires anyone to believe in a global earth? After their surrender to human reasoning by way of letting Catholics believe the literal geocentrism of the Bible could be read in a heliocentric way, the Church (rather churchmen) started to tell the flock the Bible TELLS US NOTHING ABOUT THE PHYSICAL WORLD. Thereafter not one pope DARED take up a stand against Big Bangs, evolution, death before Adam, or anything that makes Genesis and the Bible's comments on it as little more than the story like Gulliver's travels. 

    So Catholics can now believe the Earth is flat or a globe, the MOON IS MADE OF CHEESE, God zapped a MONKEY with a human soul and called IT Adam, MARTIANS can be baptised, there are leprechauns in Ireland,  I saw a unicorn yesterday, Hell is flying around the sun every day, and now that the sun didn't really move at Fatima, that it was all an illusion brought about by ice crystals.  

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 11:29:46 AM »
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  • Meg, where did I ever suggest the Church requires anyone to believe in a global earth? After their surrender to human reasoning by way of letting Catholics believe the literal geocentrism of the Bible could be read in a heliocentric way, the Church (rather churchmen) started to tell the flock the Bible TELLS US NOTHING ABOUT THE PHYSICAL WORLD. Thereafter not one pope DARED take up a stand against Big Bangs, evolution, death before Adam, or anything that makes Genesis and the Bible's comments on it as little more than the story like Gulliver's travels.

    So Catholics can now believe the Earth is flat or a globe, the MOON IS MADE OF CHEESE, God zapped a MONKEY with a human soul and called IT Adam, MARTIANS can be baptised, there are leprechauns in Ireland,  I saw a unicorn yesterday, Hell is flying around the sun every day, and now that the sun didn't really move at Fatima, that it was all an illusion brought about by ice crystals.  

    Your posts on this thread show that you think that the Church teaches that the earth is a globe. But she does not.

    If the Bible tells us nothing about the physical world, then why was Galileo condemned?


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #7 on: March 08, 2018, 11:46:43 AM »
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  • THE COUNCIL OF TRENT

    ‘Furthermore, in order to curb imprudent clever persons, the synod decrees that no one who relies on his own judgement in matters of faith and morals, which pertain to the building up of Christian doctrine, and that no one who distorts the Sacred Scripture according to his own opinions, shall dare to interpret the said Sacred Scripture contrary to that sense that is held by holy Mother Church, whose duty it is to judge regarding the true sense and interpretation of the Holy Scriptures, or even contrary to the unanimous consent of the Fathers, even though interpretations of this kind were never intended to be brought to light. Let those who shall oppose this be reported by their ordinaries and be punished with the penalties prescribed by law.’ -- (Denzinger - 786)
    No Fathers taught earth was a globe.  Several Fathers taught earth is flat.  You cannot teach contrary to the unanimous consent of what the Fathers taught. 
    Your statement proves the earth is not a globe, in and of itself, by those Fathers who taught earth is flat, and who, based on literal interpretation of Scripture, explained how the flat earth relates as a type to many things.  They showed how it relates to the metaphysical, to liturgy, to philosophy, and to cosmology.  Now, although some Fathers felt obligated to accept earth to be globe, no Fathers taught that earth is a globe, nor how the globe fits literally or even figuratively with Scripture. Nor how it might relate philosophically or metaphysically to liturgy or reality. No matter how you slice it, it's unanimous, according to the Fathers: Earth is not a globe.


    Offline roscoe

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #8 on: March 08, 2018, 12:42:29 PM »
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  • Your posts on this thread show that you think that the Church teaches that the earth is a globe. But she does not.

    If the Bible tells us nothing about the physical world, then why was Galileo condemne
    In the end, Galileo was condemned because of his Quantum physical theories. See my article The Real Galileo at www.firstjesuits.wordpress.com
    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline WholeFoodsTrad

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #9 on: March 09, 2018, 05:03:16 PM »
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  • Few will know that in his book De revolutionibus Copernicus, dedicated to Pope Paul III, placed in his introduction to Book ONE, his reasoning why RELATIVITY prevents science from establishing the order of the universe, his reasoning why the universe is GLOBAL, why the Earth is global, and why a geocentric moving stars would result in an EXPANDING UNIVERSE.


    The World is Spherical: In the beginning we should remark that the world is globe-shaped, whether because this figure is the most perfect of all, as it is an integral whole and needs no joints; or because this figure is the one having the greatest volume and thus is especially suitable for that which is going to comprehend and concerve all things; or even because the separate parts of the world, i.e., the sun, moon and stars are viewed under this form, as is apparent in the case of drops of water and other liquid bodies, when they become delimited of themselves. And so no one would say that this form belongs to heavenly bodies.’

    Paradoxically, the above spherical world ‘viewed under this form’ is the geocentric model. Later Copernicus states that; ‘For movement is the most powerful reason wherewith they try to conclude that the universe is finite.’ We agree, but it is a rotating universe of the geocentric system that proves the universe cannot be infinite, infinity being one of the condemned Pythagorean heresies of the past. A heliocentric universe with its fixed stars could be said to be infinite in distance. But an infinite universe cannot turn in 24 hours, only a finite one can do that
    Copernicus said: 'This art [the science of the universe]which is as it were the head of the all the liberal arts and the one most worthy of a free man leans upon nearly all the other branches of mathematics, arithmetic, geometry, optics, geodesy, mechanics, and whatever others, all offer themselves in its service.' Note GEODESY, the measurement of lengthy Earth sections that reveal its curve.
    The Earth is Spherical: The Earth is globe-shaped too, since on every side it rests upon its centre. But it is not perceived straightaway to be a perfect sphere, on account of the great heights of its mountains and the lowness of its valleys, thought they modify its universal roundness to only a very small extent. That is made clear in in this way. For when people journey northwards from anywhere, the northern vortex of the axis of daily revolution gradually moves overhead, and the other moves downward to the same extent; and many stars situated to the north are seen not to set, and many to the south are seen not to rise anymore….

    Moreover, the inclinations of the poles have everywhere the same ratio with places at equal distances from the poles of the Earth and that happens in no other figure except the spherical. Add to this the fact that the inhabitants of the East do not perceive the evening eclipse of the sun and moon; nor the inhabitants of the West, the morning eclipses; while those who live in the middle regions – some see them earlier and some later. Moreover, it is admitted that water, which by its nature flows, always seeks lower places – the same way as earth – and does not climb up the shore any further than the convexity of the shore allows.  

    Now as the dogs in the street know, in 1616 the theologians of the Holy Office examined this book and others to eliminate or correct any anto-Scriptural or Catholic tenets of faith. Four of the Cardinals, including Robert Bellarmine, the most learned of theologians at the time of the Reformation, had presided over the seven year trial of Bruno and erxamined every one of the many Pythagorean heresies Bruno held. Not even an altar-boy suggested the global earth of St Thomas Aquinas and Copernicus was in any way contrary to the Bible or catholic belief IN ANY WAY.

    So any assertion that a flat earth is revealed in Scripture or is a Catholic tenet, is anti-Catholic, and no amount of 'disliking' posters who tell readers this will change that. It has become perfectly plain to me that there is something NASTY that goes along with flat-earthism, that demonstrates to me anything but a Catholic mind.
    This sounds like something you copied and pasted, WITHOUT GIVING CREDIT TO YOUR SOURCE OR ALLOWING ANY OF US TO CHECK YOUR SOURCES.  So, you should provide links to your sources.
    "Even a man who is pure in heart and says his prayers by night
    may become a wolf when the wolfbane blooms and the autumn moon is bright."

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #10 on: March 09, 2018, 05:17:53 PM »
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  • Cassini: if the early Christians rejected Pythagoras's error of globe earth,  why don't you? 


    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #11 on: April 22, 2018, 12:15:41 AM »
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  • Meg, where did I ever suggest the Church requires anyone to believe in a global earth? After their surrender to human reasoning by way of letting Catholics believe the literal geocentrism of the Bible could be read in a heliocentric way, the Church (rather churchmen) started to tell the flock the Bible TELLS US NOTHING ABOUT THE PHYSICAL WORLD. Thereafter not one pope DARED take up a stand against Big Bangs, evolution, death before Adam, or anything that makes Genesis and the Bible's comments on it as little more than the story like Gulliver's travels.

    So Catholics can now believe the Earth is flat or a globe, the MOON IS MADE OF CHEESE, God zapped a MONKEY with a human soul and called IT Adam, MARTIANS can be baptised, there are leprechauns in Ireland,  I saw a unicorn yesterday, Hell is flying around the sun every day, and now that the sun didn't really move at Fatima, that it was all an illusion brought about by ice crystals.  
    .
    Update:
    Only a few weeks after you posted this, cassini,
    the Bishop of Rome Francis proclaimed that hell isn't real.
    So it was flying around the sun one day and non-existent the next.
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Online Neil Obstat

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #12 on: April 22, 2018, 12:23:45 AM »
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  • Quote
    Paradoxically, the above spherical world ‘viewed under this form’ is the geocentric model. Later Copernicus states that; ‘For movement is the most powerful reason wherewith they try to conclude that the universe is finite.’ We agree, but it is a rotating universe of the geocentric system that proves the universe cannot be infinite, infinity being one of the condemned Pythagorean heresies of the past. A heliocentric universe with its fixed stars could be said to be infinite in distance. But an infinite universe cannot turn in 24 hours, only a finite one can do that.
    .
    Curiously, some modern astrophysicists are weighing in lately by saying that they believe the universe is infinite!
    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #13 on: April 22, 2018, 11:35:02 AM »
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  • Few will know that in his book De revolutionibus Copernicus, dedicated to Pope Paul III, placed in his introduction to Book ONE, his reasoning why RELATIVITY prevents science from establishing the order of the universe, his reasoning why the universe is GLOBAL, why the Earth is global, and why a geocentric moving stars would result in an EXPANDING UNIVERSE.


    The World is Spherical: In the beginning we should remark that the world is globe-shaped, whether because this figure is the most perfect of all, as it is an integral whole and needs no joints; or because this figure is the one having the greatest volume and thus is especially suitable for that which is going to comprehend and concerve all things; or even because the separate parts of the world, i.e., the sun, moon and stars are viewed under this form, as is apparent in the case of drops of water and other liquid bodies, when they become delimited of themselves. And so no one would say that this form belongs to heavenly bodies.’

    Paradoxically, the above spherical world ‘viewed under this form’ is the geocentric model. Later Copernicus states that; ‘For movement is the most powerful reason wherewith they try to conclude that the universe is finite.’ We agree, but it is a rotating universe of the geocentric system that proves the universe cannot be infinite, infinity being one of the condemned Pythagorean heresies of the past. A heliocentric universe with its fixed stars could be said to be infinite in distance. But an infinite universe cannot turn in 24 hours, only a finite one can do that
    Copernicus said: 'This art [the science of the universe]which is as it were the head of the all the liberal arts and the one most worthy of a free man leans upon nearly all the other branches of mathematics, arithmetic, geometry, optics, geodesy, mechanics, and whatever others, all offer themselves in its service.' Note GEODESY, the measurement of lengthy Earth sections that reveal its curve.
    The Earth is Spherical: The Earth is globe-shaped too, since on every side it rests upon its centre. But it is not perceived straightaway to be a perfect sphere, on account of the great heights of its mountains and the lowness of its valleys, thought they modify its universal roundness to only a very small extent. That is made clear in in this way. For when people journey northwards from anywhere, the northern vortex of the axis of daily revolution gradually moves overhead, and the other moves downward to the same extent; and many stars situated to the north are seen not to set, and many to the south are seen not to rise anymore….

    Moreover, the inclinations of the poles have everywhere the same ratio with places at equal distances from the poles of the Earth and that happens in no other figure except the spherical. Add to this the fact that the inhabitants of the East do not perceive the evening eclipse of the sun and moon; nor the inhabitants of the West, the morning eclipses; while those who live in the middle regions – some see them earlier and some later. Moreover, it is admitted that water, which by its nature flows, always seeks lower places – the same way as earth – and does not climb up the shore any further than the convexity of the shore allows.  

    Now as the dogs in the street know, in 1616 the theologians of the Holy Office examined this book and others to eliminate or correct any anto-Scriptural or Catholic tenets of faith. Four of the Cardinals, including Robert Bellarmine, the most learned of theologians at the time of the Reformation, had presided over the seven year trial of Bruno and erxamined every one of the many Pythagorean heresies Bruno held. Not even an altar-boy suggested the global earth of St Thomas Aquinas and Copernicus was in any way contrary to the Bible or catholic belief IN ANY WAY.

    So any assertion that a flat earth is revealed in Scripture or is a Catholic tenet, is anti-Catholic, and no amount of 'disliking' posters who tell readers this will change that. It has become perfectly plain to me that there is something NASTY that goes along with flat-earthism, that demonstrates to me anything but a Catholic mind.
    What garbage. 
    If you reject Pythagoras's theories as heresies, then you MUST reject his globe earth theory.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Copernicus's reasoning that the universe and the earth are global
    « Reply #14 on: April 22, 2018, 11:44:02 AM »
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  • What garbage.
    If you reject Pythagoras's theories as heresies, then you MUST reject his globe earth theory.
    By your twisted logic, if you reject Pythagoras' theories, you must also reject that the square of the hypotenuse of a triangle is equal to the squares of the other two sides. But that's demonstrable fact. So you have to literally deny reality and basic maths to fit your worldview, just because of your nonsense belief that because some of what someone said is false, everything they said must be false. 

     

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