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Author Topic: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe  (Read 510 times)

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Offline happenby

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Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
« on: July 28, 2018, 10:30:33 AM »
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  • There's no defense for the globe after Google Earth exposes the lie.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=PAhOXQIZ4OE


    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
    « Reply #1 on: August 01, 2018, 09:51:29 AM »
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  • Reminds me of the joke about the person (blonde, Polish, Newfie) who wanted to go water skiing but couldn't find a lake that went downhill.


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
    « Reply #2 on: August 03, 2018, 07:35:25 PM »
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  • Its really sad when the evidence exists but remains beyond the reach of people simple because they do not listen.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
    « Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 01:34:48 AM »
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  • Its really sad when the evidence exists but remains beyond the reach of people simple because they do not listen.
    .
    How true in the case of flat-earthers they refuse to listen and deny the evidence staring them in the face. Sad.
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
    « Reply #4 on: August 08, 2018, 09:33:57 AM »
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  • No answer to the video because the globe cannot withstand truth.  Reality, science, math, Scripture, the Fathers prove earth is not a globe.  Not one of these five sources has been addressed in any direct or reasonable way.  Long trails of words parroting modern science only beg the question.  The video shows that in the real world, everything indicates and reveals a flat earth and movements in the heavens show it is impossible for earth to be a globe.  Adversaries to flat geocentric earth are reduced to mocking and frivolous posts because there is a tower of evidence against their unsupported beliefs.


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
    « Reply #5 on: August 08, 2018, 12:44:21 PM »
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  • .
    Here's an answer for you:
    .
    .
    Question: Let's say I don't believe the world is round. How can one prove the world is round to me?
    .
    Timothy Todd, Geologist, writer (transitionstofreedom.com), traveler
    Answered May 12, 2017

    There are some great answers here, and another one is probably not necessary. But I had an exchange with some flat earthers that shifted my perspective on their thought processes (or the lack of them).

    Anyone that’s ever interacted with an actual FE adherent knows that they will reject all evidence that the earth is any shape other than flat. Depending on your disposition, it can be pretty entertaining to watch them struggle through the dissonance that arises when they attempt to reconcile their unshakable faith in their world view with facts that contradict it.

    I used to live in Kailua-Kona on the Big Island of Hawaii. We had a house there that faced west with a spectacular view of the coastline and the Pacific. It was about 1200 feet above sea level.

    One evening, near sunset, I was at home perusing the silly musings of a group of FE adherents on a public forum. My wife happened to be in town near the beach about the time the sun set. I called her just as it was setting to ask her to tell me the exact moment that the tip of the sun sank below the horizon. At the moment that she confirmed her observation of the sun’s disappearance, I could still see a portion of the sun above the horizon from my elevated vantage point. I then marked the time that I observed the sun disappear below the horizon.

    The distance to the horizon on the ocean can be estimated by using d = 3.57 * √h where d is the distance to the horizon in kilometers and h is the elevation of the observer in meters. Using 5 meters for my wife’s elevation (she was not directly on the beach) and 400 meters for mine, I estimated that the distance to the visible horizon for her was about 8 kilometers, while from my location it was about 70 kilometers. Since she was about 5 kilometers west of me, I added that to her 8 kilometers, making my visible horizon about 57 kilometers further west than my wife’s.

    The earth’s rotational speed at any latitude can be estimated by multiplying the cosine of latitude in degrees by 1670 kilometers per hour (the rotational speed at the equator). In our case, we were at about 19.6 degrees north latitude, so our rotational speed was around 1,570 kilometers per hour, or about 26 kilometers per minute. That meant that the sun should disappear under the horizon about 2 minutes later for me than for her, which is exactly what we observed.

    I shared our observations and the associated calculations with the FE cultists on the forum that I’d been reading. You won’t be surprised to learn that I was unable to claim a single convert. Instead, I was ridiculed, insulted, and mocked, but not on the basis of any reasoned rebuttal. The most common response was some variation on the theme that I was lying. I was eventually invited to leave the forum and asked not to engage in further discussion.

    Yes, I know that it was a foolish waste of my time, but I did come away with some interesting insights into human nature and the FE cult mindset. Reason and evidence are not the ingredients that have led them to their understanding of reality, so reason and evidence will never be part of the solution that will help them to accept the world as it is rather than as they want it to be.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
    « Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 01:24:17 PM »
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  • There's no defense for the globe after Google Earth exposes the lie.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=PAhOXQIZ4OE
    .
    The OP video presumes from the start that the GoogleEarth data points are all in reference to a flat plane.
    But in fact, they're not.
    The GoogleEarth data points are simply in reference to the geoid -- the existence of which flat-earthers deny.
    Therein lies the rub.
    .
    That is to say, the OP pretends to make a presentation using a system, the basis of which the OP denies.
    .
    Take the graphic representation of elevations from Denver to Cincinnati for example.
    At 0:37 the author posts a graph showing the changing ground elevation from Denver on the left to Cincinnati on the right.
    .
    Oh, but wait!
    If he were to stand in Cincinnati and the earth is "flat" then why can't he see Denver at the top of the hill he just drew?
    You can put a little man there above Cincinnati looking left toward Denver, and he should be able to see the ground rise up.
    That's what his diagram shows!
    But that isn't what the video talks about.
    No, the video ignores the obvious.
    The ELEPHANT in the middle of the room is not to be discussed!
    .
    You don't even have to wait for Ohio.
    You can have the little man standing at Indiana with the same elevation of "764 feet." 
    From Indianapolis, Indiana, you should be able to look west and see Denver, Colorado, according to the chart. 
    You should be able to see the Rocky mountains north and south of Denver from Indiana.
    But you can't.
    Why not?
    .
    Simple. It is due to the earth's curvature that Denver CO is not visible from Ohio, or from Indianapolis at half the distance.
    .
    Then at 1:40 he shows the earth's globe as viewed from the side, which clearly gives the reason you can't see Denver from Cincinnati or from Indianapolis, but the author completely ignores this fact.
    .
    He goes on to whine about how GoogleEarth is trying to deceive the world, etc., etc., ad nauseum.
    .
    Then he ignores the western half of the Great Divide, probably because it would show how silly his nonsense is.
    .
    He jumps topic at 2:30 to the Great Lakes, looking at "the body of Lake Michigan," at "574 feet above sea level."
    "There's no change in elevation! There's no curve!" 
    Yes, there is a curve -- it's in the geoid which is the datum and basis for all the points observed!
    .
    He deliberately ignores the fact that the surface of the lake is given as elevations compared to the geoid.
    The surface of any body of water in GoogleEarth has nothing to do with a flat plane.
    They are all references to the difference between the shown elevation and the elevation of the geoid at that place.
    .
    It is a map showing the results of thousands of subtraction equations. 
    Each point on the map is computed by subtracting the elevation from the geoid elevation for that point.
    But you would never know that by watching this flat-earthism video. 


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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
    « Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 01:35:28 PM »
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  • .
    Here's an answer for you:
    .
    .
    Question: Let's say I don't believe the world is round. How can one prove the world is round to me?
    .
    Timothy Todd, Geologist, writer (transitionstofreedom.com), traveler
    Answered May 12, 2017

    There are some great answers here, and another one is probably not necessary. But I had an exchange with some flat earthers that shifted my perspective on their thought processes (or the lack of them).

    Anyone that’s ever interacted with an actual FE adherent knows that they will reject all evidence that the earth is any shape other than flat. Depending on your disposition, it can be pretty entertaining to watch them struggle through the dissonance that arises when they attempt to reconcile their unshakable faith in their world view with facts that contradict it.

    I used to live in Kailua-Kona on the Big Island of Hawaii. We had a house there that faced west with a spectacular view of the coastline and the Pacific. It was about 1200 feet above sea level.

    One evening, near sunset, I was at home perusing the silly musings of a group of FE adherents on a public forum. My wife happened to be in town near the beach about the time the sun set. I called her just as it was setting to ask her to tell me the exact moment that the tip of the sun sank below the horizon. At the moment that she confirmed her observation of the sun’s disappearance, I could still see a portion of the sun above the horizon from my elevated vantage point. I then marked the time that I observed the sun disappear below the horizon.

    The distance to the horizon on the ocean can be estimated by using d = 3.57 * √h where d is the distance to the horizon in kilometers and h is the elevation of the observer in meters. Using 5 meters for my wife’s elevation (she was not directly on the beach) and 400 meters for mine, I estimated that the distance to the visible horizon for her was about 8 kilometers, while from my location it was about 70 kilometers. Since she was about 5 kilometers west of me, I added that to her 8 kilometers, making my visible horizon about 57 kilometers further west than my wife’s.

    The earth’s rotational speed at any latitude can be estimated by multiplying the cosine of latitude in degrees by 1670 kilometers per hour (the rotational speed at the equator). In our case, we were at about 19.6 degrees north latitude, so our rotational speed was around 1,570 kilometers per hour, or about 26 kilometers per minute. That meant that the sun should disappear under the horizon about 2 minutes later for me than for her, which is exactly what we observed.

    I shared our observations and the associated calculations with the FE cultists on the forum that I’d been reading. You won’t be surprised to learn that I was unable to claim a single convert. Instead, I was ridiculed, insulted, and mocked, but not on the basis of any reasoned rebuttal. The most common response was some variation on the theme that I was lying. I was eventually invited to leave the forum and asked not to engage in further discussion.

    Yes, I know that it was a foolish waste of my time, but I did come away with some interesting insights into human nature and the FE cult mindset. Reason and evidence are not the ingredients that have led them to their understanding of reality, so reason and evidence will never be part of the solution that will help them to accept the world as it is rather than as they want it to be.
    This argument is flawed for so many reasons.  First: earth doesn't rotate.  Scripture says earth is fixed, on a foundation, and movement of the earth is condemned by the Church.  Second: many globe geocentric theorists do not think the earth rotates either, so this guy is attempting to make a case for the heliocentric model, another specifically condemned proposition.  Why promote what is already condemned?  As if this guy's observation of sun setting 2 minutes apart from his wife is scientific?  This doesn't even take into account the direction of the sun's trajectory in relation to persons on the ground which could account for that or even more time difference in sun setting.  Third: Flat earthers are no more rude to globers than globers are to fe'rs, so getting ran out on a rail off that forum was the result of inadequate data for his observational conclusion.     


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
    « Reply #8 on: August 08, 2018, 01:54:53 PM »
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  • .
    Here is the conference that the OP author will probably attend, since it's in Denver where his father lives.
    You know, the same Denver he should be able to see from his front yard since it's uphill from Cincinnati.
    Like his chart shows at minute 40.
    .
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Conversation Over: Earth is not a Globe
    « Reply #9 on: August 24, 2018, 11:14:20 AM »
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    Keep in mind who is hosting this so-called International Flat-Earthdom Syndromers' Conference.
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