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Author Topic: % Confidence in Earth's Shape  (Read 18567 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

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Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
« Reply #240 on: August 15, 2022, 11:46:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: Miser Peccator on August 15, 2022, 11:24:15 AM
    And of course Donald Trump has Space Force all set up for a big show. 

    There are a lot of creepy occult symbols associated with Space Force.

    This thread shows pictures:

    https://twitter.com/DonnieDarkened/status/1555596908407685126

    The guy may stretch things too far and I'm not saying DT is the AC but the photos/info are interesting to note nonetheless.
    I mean, many of us back in 2016, myself included, memed him as the "God-Emperor". And some of those connections are certainly interesting, for sure. He's also being propped up as a "savior" among conservatives, which was one thing I noted last election cycle. And he's poised to play that role again after the destruction of Biden's administration. 

    I'll keep him tabbed as a "potential candidate" for AC. :laugh1:
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Philothea3

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #241 on: August 17, 2022, 05:14:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: ServusInutilisDomini on August 04, 2022, 08:11:54 AM
    Mystery vs. contradiction. Same thing as the sede question.

    Flat Earthers don't even have to provide a conclusive model, they just have to demonstrate it is not contradictory and it wins by default because it is according to the literal interpretation of Scripture.

    I still have some questions about FE but I've found the globe debunked many times over in these couple of weeks of research.

    Consider also, how easy it is to disprove a flat earth. NASA needs to provide just one genuine picture of the Earth, or film a flight over Antarctica, or photograph curvature, etc.

    But every time they provide supposed evidence it ends up being falsified.

    Long story short, the burden of proof is on the globetards and they haven't delivered.
    Im still reading this long thread and other posts, but where in bible did it mention a flat earth?
    I found this: It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in

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    THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN, so that we may love you with all our heart, by always having you in mind; with all our soul, by always longing for you; with all our mind, by determining to seek your glory in everything; and with all our strength, of body and soul... 
    - St Francis de Assisi

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #242 on: August 17, 2022, 06:37:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on August 15, 2022, 11:46:13 AM
    I mean, many of us back in 2016, myself included, memed him as the "God-Emperor". And some of those connections are certainly interesting, for sure. He's also being propped up as a "savior" among conservatives, which was one thing I noted last election cycle. And he's poised to play that role again after the destruction of Biden's administration.

    I'll keep him tabbed as a "potential candidate" for AC. :laugh1:

    Yeah, unless something major happens, he's a shoe-in for 2024.  I posted one time a "vision" some young man had after he fell of his horse of a future massive earthquake that would submerge California, and he says he saw a "heavier" President "with big ears" ... which certainly fits Trump.  Also, there are those books about "Baron Trump" (Trump has a son named Barron") that say "Trump" would be the last US President.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #243 on: August 17, 2022, 06:52:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Philothea3 on August 17, 2022, 05:14:40 PM
    Im still reading this long thread and other posts, but where in bible did it mention a flat earth?
    I found this: It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretches out the heavens as a curtain, and spreads them out as a tent to dwell in



    This citation is not correct.  This is probably being said by someone specifically trying to explain again a possible reference to Flat Earth.

    Even Dr. Sungenis agrees (speaking here about the "grasshoppers" passage)
    Quote
    This information will become especially relevant after we also
    learn that Hebrew, being only an 8000-word language, did not, strange as
    it may seem, have a specific word for a “sphere” or a “disc.” That doesn’t
    mean, of course, that the Hebrews had no concept of these shapes or that
    God did not make celestial objects or earthly things in spheres. It only
    means that the description of a sphere or disc will be a little more involved
    and a little more obscure in the Hebrew language.

    Root of the word is just something that can roll.  Could be a wheel or COULD be a sphere.  By itself inconclusive either way.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #244 on: August 17, 2022, 07:03:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 17, 2022, 06:37:43 PM
    Also, there are those books about "Baron Trump" (Trump has a son named Barron") that say "Trump" would be the last US President.
    I completely forgot about those
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Tradman

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #245 on: August 17, 2022, 07:18:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 17, 2022, 06:52:00 PM
    This citation is not correct.  This is probably being said by someone specifically trying to explain again a possible reference to Flat Earth.

    Even Dr. Sungenis agrees (speaking here about the "grasshoppers" passage)
    Root of the word is just something that can roll.  Could be a wheel or COULD be a sphere.  By itself inconclusive either way.

    Not sure how it's possible that a circle is ever spherical. 

    Isaiah 40:22 which speaks of God as the One sitting above the circle of the earth.   This verse does imply that the earth is circular, but there is nothing either in the underlying Hebrew word     (chug) or in the context which necessarily implies anything more than the circularity of the flat earth-disc which the historical context and Genesis 1 have given us as the meaning of.  If Isaiah had intended to speak of the earth as a globe, he would probably have used the word he used in 22:18 (dur), meaning 'ball.' "




    chug ►



    Strong's Concordance

    chug: vault, horizon
    Original Word: חוּג
    Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    Transliteration: chug
    Phonetic Spelling: (khoog)
    Definition: vault, horizon
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    from chug
    Definition
    vault, horizon
    NASB Translation
    circle (2), vault (1).

    Brown-Driver-Briggs
    חוּג [size=+1]noun [masculine]     [size=+1]vault[/size]; — only of vault of the heavens חוּג שׁמים התהלך Job 22:14; בְּחֻקֿוֺ חוּג עלֿ תהום ׳פנ Proverbs 8:27; הישֵׁב עַלחֿוּג הארץ Isaiah 40:22.

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    circle, circuit, compass
    From chuwg; a circle -- circle, circuit, compass.
    see HEBREW chuwg
    Forms and Transliterations
    וְח֥וּג וחוג ח֝֗וּג ח֣וּג חוג Chug ḥūḡ veChug wə·ḥūḡ wəḥūḡ
    Links
    Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts[/font][/size][/color]
    Englishman's Concordance
    Job 22:14
    HEB: וְלֹ֣א יִרְאֶ֑ה וְח֥וּג שָׁ֝מַ֗יִם יִתְהַלָּֽךְ׃
    NAS: And He walks on the vault of heaven.'
    KJV: not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.
    INT: cannot see the vault of heaven walks
    Proverbs 8:27
    HEB: אָ֑נִי בְּח֥וּקוֹ ח֝֗וּג עַל־ פְּנֵ֥י
    NAS: When He inscribed a circle on the face
    KJV: I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face
    INT: he inscribed A circle on the face
    Isaiah 40:22
    HEB: הַיֹּשֵׁב֙ עַל־ ח֣וּג הָאָ֔רֶץ וְיֹשְׁבֶ֖יהָ
    NAS: above the circle of the earth,
    KJV: [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,
    INT: sits above the circle of the earth inhabitants


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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #246 on: August 17, 2022, 07:57:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 17, 2022, 07:18:46 PM
    Not sure how it's possible that a circle is ever spherical.

    ... because the world mostly means "round".  You can say that a wheel is round, or you can say that a ball is round.

    As your citation indicates, it can be use of the vault of heaven, which is shaped more like a dome.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #247 on: August 17, 2022, 08:10:58 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 17, 2022, 07:57:24 PM
    ... because the world mostly means "round".  You can say that a wheel is round, or you can say that a ball is round.

    As your citation indicates, it can be use of the vault of heaven, which is shaped more like a dome.
    Ok, but with regard to earth, the Hebrew provides a word to describe a ball or spherical object: dur.  I think the objection to the notion of spherical heavens has to do with heaven being all around the earth, as in over the top and under the bottom of the globe.    
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    Offline Donachie

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #248 on: August 17, 2022, 08:21:23 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 17, 2022, 07:18:46 PM

    Not sure how it's possible that a circle is ever spherical.

     ... where you have two intersecting planes, like along the ecliptic where the Sun is setting in the West (descending) and rising in the East (ascending) around the Earth all the time, also at an inclined angle to the Equator, as it ranges back and forth from the tropics of Capricorn and Cancer.

    If everybody is said to be on one side of the Earth, then it is meant that they are all on the surface. If the surface is flat or only two-dimensional in space, how is the Sun descending beneath the surface in the West and rising above it in the East all the time? The only way that works in 3-D is if it's a sphere.

    Even the motion of a wheel is spherical or 3-D, since only if you look at it in full 3-D roatation do you gell the full picture of what's going. A full analysis of space requires 3-D rotation. That type of analysis makes any circle a sphere. When you look at the forward wheel rotation from the driver's side, it goes counter-clockwise. When you look at it from the passenger's side, it goes clockwise. When you look at it from above, it goes from top to bottom. When you look at it from below, it goes from bottom to top.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #249 on: August 17, 2022, 11:00:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: Tradman on August 17, 2022, 08:10:58 PM
    Ok, but with regard to earth, the Hebrew provides a word to describe a ball or spherical object: dur.  I think the objection to the notion of spherical heavens has to do with heaven being all around the earth, as in over the top and under the bottom of the globe.   

    But when it speaks of the vault or dome of the sky, it seems to use this word khug or chug.  Perhaps that would an argument in favor of those Fathers who believed the earth was hemispherical (with a flat bottom) rather than a full globe or "ball" (dur).
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #250 on: August 17, 2022, 11:02:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: Donachie on August 17, 2022, 08:21:23 PM
    If everybody is said to be on one side of the Earth, then it is meant that they are all on the surface. If the surface is flat or only two-dimensional in space, how is the Sun descending beneath the surface in the West and rising above it in the East all the time? The only way that works in 3-D is if it's a sphere.

    Depends.  Book of Enoch says that it passed through gates.  One Father that it went past some high mountains.  Others did say it went around in a spherical orbit.

    Problem here, and this is Sungenis' problem, is WHAT is a sphere?  For the Fathers the outline of the sphere was formed not by the solid earth, but rather by the firmament.  It's the firmament that formed a spherical enclosure around the world.  They were NOT speaking of the ground that we walk on being spherical.  Some believed it was hemispherial in shape, and others that it was cone-shaped.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #251 on: August 18, 2022, 03:47:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: Philothea3 on August 17, 2022, 05:14:40 PM
    Im still reading this long thread and other posts, but where in bible did it mention a flat earth?
    http://www.testingtheglobe.com/bible#sthash.LxzalGch.dpuf

    Philothea, have you looked into the Firmament? (The Dome of the earth)

    One short excerpt among much information in the link above:

    Genesis 1:
    14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
    15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
    16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
    17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
    18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.


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    Offline Philothea3

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #252 on: August 18, 2022, 09:14:52 PM »
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    • I dont know if this can serve as a proof, but I was following the aurora since I was trying to find out if I can see it from where I live, but the aurora oval looks very weird to me... Why is it that wavy?

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    THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN, so that we may love you with all our heart, by always having you in mind; with all our soul, by always longing for you; with all our mind, by determining to seek your glory in everything; and with all our strength, of body and soul... 
    - St Francis de Assisi

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #253 on: August 18, 2022, 09:39:07 PM »
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    • Quote from: Philothea3 on August 18, 2022, 09:14:52 PM

    I dont know if this can serve as a proof, but I was following the aurora since I was trying to find out if I can see it from where I live, but the aurora oval looks very weird to me... Why is it that wavy?
    GE would say that tilt and wobble of the earth. But, if it were laid out on a FE map, it would be a concentric ring around the polar region.

    Much like this comparison of the jet stream:

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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Donachie

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #254 on: August 18, 2022, 09:42:22 PM »
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    • The flat Earth is like school in summer. No class. Besides that it's all puppet shows and the wrong side of Occam's razor. The way it tries to deal with plurality in space is to multiply what would be wrong with it if it were.
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