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Author Topic: % Confidence in Earth's Shape  (Read 18648 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
« Reply #195 on: August 11, 2022, 09:20:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: Donachie on August 11, 2022, 08:33:48 PM
    ... a perfect sphere. That's a message in and of itself. When Pope Benedict asked Giotto for a drawing to prove his worth as an artist, Giotto drew a perfect circle ... freehand.

    I don't quite get your point here.  Were Our Lord and Our Lady shaped like spheres?  Besides that, modern science claims that the earth is an oblate spheroid, i.e. imperfect.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #196 on: August 11, 2022, 09:26:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 11, 2022, 09:20:12 PM
    I don't quite get your point here.  Were Our Lord and Our Lady shaped like spheres?  Besides that, modern science claims that the earth is an oblate spheroid, i.e. imperfect.
    The sphere being a perfect shape must mean that God made the earth spherical. All in all, just because something is aesthetically beautiful doesn't mean it applies to reality... Reality shows that there is no curve.
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Donachie

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #197 on: August 11, 2022, 09:59:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 11, 2022, 09:20:12 PM
    I don't quite get your point here.  Were Our Lord and Our Lady shaped like spheres?  Besides that, modern science claims that the earth is an oblate spheroid, i.e. imperfect.
    According to St. Bonaventure the eyes and most perfects of the body are spherical, or tending to some sphericity of balance and well being, since the sphere is the perfect shape, especially in representing the spatial relation to the infinite. Everything else gets stuck in the problem of infinite regress, yet even with its perfect curve, the circle is deficient in relation to the sphere since it's only two dimensional like "Flatland".

    Nothing changes or can change in relation to the infinite, and the difference between existence and non-existence is not nothing, but a mysterious uniformity of oneness, since the difference between existence and non-existence is always the same thing ... and also an original principle existent or unit. The same difference as that is in everything. There are differences in particulars but in general in the simplest terms the difference between any numbers is always another unit value. So there are two types of equality in all numbers in that they cannot change in relation to the infinite, and the difference between them all is essentially going back to the same difference, even as the same difference that is between existence and non-existence. They have a variety of positional values and possible operations around a spherical (logically I'd say not only spatially) center.

    As for the numbers, so for creation, since creation is all in numbers. And all clouds and stars as well that are around the Earth are related together in the same angular degree of inclination  to the center of the Earth, which provides again that sense of equality in the relation of mathematical origin to the infinite and even to space. A plane doesn't provide the same balance of equality.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #198 on: August 11, 2022, 11:28:44 PM »
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    • The Host is round and flat.  Therefore it proves FE.  

    You can make symbolic arguments all day long; it doesn’t prove anything. 
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #199 on: August 12, 2022, 08:46:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on August 11, 2022, 09:26:06 PM
    The sphere being a perfect shape must mean that God made the earth spherical. All in all, just because something is aesthetically beautiful doesn't mean it applies to reality... Reality shows that there is no curve.

    Right, not everything God created is a sphere, including the height of his creation, man.

    At one point I saw a fascinating video showing how the Fibonacci pattern is present in much of nature.

    And, finally, as you've pointed out, we DO see the world as a sphere, with the dome above and the hemisphere below.  We just don't think that we live on the surface of said sphere.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #200 on: August 12, 2022, 08:51:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 12, 2022, 08:46:17 AM
    Right, not everything God created is a sphere, including the height of his creation, man.

    At one point I saw a fascinating video showing how the Fibonacci pattern is present in much of nature.

    And, finally, as you've pointed out, we DO see the world as a sphere, with the dome above and the hemisphere below.  We just don't think that we live on the surface of said sphere.
    So...Fibonacci-shaped earth then?


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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #201 on: August 12, 2022, 11:53:20 AM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on August 12, 2022, 08:51:11 AM
    So...Fibonacci-shaped earth then?




    :laugh1: ... yeah, the same chance Jim Carrey had in that scene there.
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    Offline Donachie

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #202 on: August 12, 2022, 09:41:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 12, 2022, 08:46:17 AM
    Right, not everything God created is a sphere, including the height of his creation, man.

    At one point I saw a fascinating video showing how the Fibonacci pattern is present in much of nature.

    And, finally, as you've pointed out, we DO see the world as a sphere, with the dome above and the hemisphere below.  We just don't think that we live on the surface of said sphere.
    If people want to believe in the flat Earth, I don't want to make fun of them or be rude. Salvador Dali could maybe believe in it and fit it in an art gallery.

    I'd say that everything refers to "as" (as this or as that: there's an "as") and every "as" refers to "is". The "as" and the "is" on one side refer to the indivisible, and on the other to the divisible. Between these two there is a great sphere of differentiation, a great sphere of difference. All other things are all in spheres of differentiation too. There is a sphere of differentiation that relates the nature and properties of the human hand as it is, for example, and then to everything else. I'd say this also parallels the experience that the smallest element in cause and effect is at least a point, some point of cause, and every point contains its own sphere.

    The mind naturally associates division with lines and halves. Cut separation in so many divisions, so many lines, so many halves. The old philosophers sometimes had trouble working out the problem of plurality and oneness, because it seemed the number of divisions could potentially be innumerable (like Zeno of Elea said a man can never leave his room) and how could so many, the great plurality, proceed from one if the one was really one? Either the many or the one were not quite right in the relation.

    Zeno concluded motion and every difference were illusions. Well, in this case of discussion, i'd say that the Earth is one and so is the Sun, and the Sun lights up all of it. The Sun lights up the face of the Earth, even the whole face of the Earth, etc. How can a flat Earth deal with this? That the Sun lights up the whole face of the Earth all the time?

    Some will say the Sun does not light up the whole Earth but only part of it. This is true too, but it does light up the face of the Earth, and in this simple expression one can tell that it's the whole face that is lit up.

    So how many faces are there in the whole then or how many sides in the whole sphere? More than two.

    In the spherical Earth, it's not as much of a problem that the Sun does light up the whole face of the Earth but only one side at a time. It has many equal sides more than two, which I would think is the best the flat earth could do: two sides, like Janus maybe for the flat Earth. Whereas the spherical Earth has almost an infinite number of sides to balance all the problems of space and geometry, at the same time with the whole face lit by the Sun. Through the method of spherical separation in division and by comparison, things and the divisions in them, that also work like lines, for this side or that side, come out more complete and well reckoned. Like Al-Kindi rays maybe, a sphere for everything and everything its sphere.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #203 on: August 12, 2022, 10:29:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: Donachie on August 12, 2022, 09:41:44 PM
    If people want to believe in the flat Earth, I don't want to make fun of them or be rude.

    OK, but I just don't find your argument convincing.  Just because people believe that a sphere is the perfect shape does not mean that God must create EVERYthing as a sphere or that He made the earth a sphere.
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    Offline Donachie

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #204 on: August 12, 2022, 10:47:18 PM »
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    • Do you admit that the Sun and Moon are spheres and cut the plane of the ecliptic at inclined angles in 3-D space?
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #205 on: August 13, 2022, 08:24:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: Donachie on August 12, 2022, 10:47:18 PM
    Do you admit that the Sun and Moon are spheres and cut the plane of the ecliptic at inclined angles in 3-D space?

    I don't know whether the sun and moon are spheres ... and with FE the notion of an "ecliptic" is unclear to me.
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    Offline Philothea3

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #206 on: August 13, 2022, 08:55:14 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 13, 2022, 08:24:05 AM
    I don't know whether the sun and moon are spheres ... and with FE the notion of an "ecliptic" is unclear to me.
    From some videos I've watched, looks like FE believe eclipses are caused by a black sun...
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    Offline St Giles

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #207 on: August 13, 2022, 09:30:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on August 13, 2022, 08:24:05 AM
    I don't know whether the sun and moon are spheres ... and with FE the notion of an "ecliptic" is unclear to me.
    If I remember correctly, the sun has a fast speed of rotation. Assuming sun spots don't float over a molten surface, it should be possible to track the rotation and prove it is a sphere by tracking sun spots.

    I have watched the moon pass in front of the sun, so how eclipses work is obvious to me. I was lucky enough to be near the center of "totality", but still within that full shadow coverage, and viewed it through a telescope with a home made filter and a couple pairs of sun glasses. There's just not enough time to really get your fill of observing such an event.
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    Offline Donachie

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #208 on: August 13, 2022, 10:03:17 AM »
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    • Everybody thinks that they are spheres, of course, They're both round and not flat disks. The way the Earth works in lunar eclipses shows that it's round too, and I doubt that it's a flat disk in exception to them.

    The Sun ranges from the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn and then the equator between and the Moon ranges from the north and south nodes where eclipses occur at the nodes of a new moon. It's like two circle hoops with a nail, or two opposite nails, fastened in to them, and they rotate up or down a little into a vertical or third plane. They don't stay on the same flat plane. Their motions imply and show sphericity in space.

    The heliocentric freaks from ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic controlled NASA, who have never landed on the Moon or Mars and lie about Pluto and just about everything else, while they scam the country out of money and laugh about it, those people think the Earth's an "oblate spheroid" due to lateral forces from "gravity". Another falsehood. The Earth is a perfect sphere not an "oblate spheroid" and "gravity" doesn't represent lateral forces anyway. There aren't any lateral forces from so-called "gravity", there aren't any "gravity kicks" for their rockets, and the Earth is not moving to orbit the Sun anyway in the first place.
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    Offline Tradman

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #209 on: August 13, 2022, 10:10:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: Donachie on August 13, 2022, 10:03:17 AM
    Everybody thinks that they are spheres, of course, They're both round and not flat disks. The way the Earth works in lunar eclipses shows that it's round too, and I doubt that it's a flat disk in exception to them.

    The Sun ranges from the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn and then the equator between and the Moon ranges from the north and south nodes where eclipses occur at the nodes of a new moon. It's like two circle hoops with a nail, or two opposite nails, fastened in to them, and they rotate up or down a little into a vertical or third plane. They don't stay on the same flat plane. Their motions imply and show sphericity in space.

    The heliocentric freaks from ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic controlled NASA, who have never landed on the Moon or Mars and lie about Pluto and just about everything else, while they scam the country out of money and laugh about it, those people think the Earth's an "oblate spheroid" due to lateral forces from "gravity". Another falsehood. The Earth is a perfect sphere not an "oblate spheroid" and "gravity" doesn't represent lateral forces anyway. There aren't any lateral forces from so-called "gravity", there aren't any "gravity kicks" for their rockets, and the Earth is not moving to orbit the Sun anyway in the first place.
    Spheres in the heavens is a perception, not reality.  

    “There really are not any spheres in the heavens… Those of which have been devised by the experts to save the appearances exist only in the imagination, for the purpose of enabling the mind to conceive the motion which the heavenly bodies trace in their course and, by the aid of geometry, to determine the motion numerically through the use of arithmetic.”

    -Tycho Brahe, On the Most Recent Phenomena of the Aetherial World, 1588


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