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Author Topic: % Confidence in Earth's Shape  (Read 6642 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2022, 07:21:44 PM »
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  • Is that your proof?  Very logical. 

    I responded in kind to your comment and provided as much "proof" as you did for your initial assertion ... none.  I'm not going to prove it with every post, and I've written an extraordinary amount on the subject on this forum.

    Look up the phrase quod gratis affirmatur, gratis et negatur.  Gratuitous assertions are likewise gratuitously rejected.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #91 on: August 05, 2022, 07:27:02 PM »
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  • Electromagnetic or electrostatic forces are a much more likely explanation for the behavior of the sun and moon's circling the earth. It even works in favor of a spherical earth as it gives a more practical means of how objects remain affixed to the spheroid globe.

    That one professor Robitaille who ripped Mr. Dave to shreds, while not a geocentrist or flat earther, has some very solid evidence for the sun being electrical in nature and not the huge fusion engine claimed by modern science.  Mr. Dave ripped him for his theories, and he proceeded to take him apart and expose the fact that Dave has no idea what's he's blustering about.

    As for Mr. Dave humiliating David Weiss, he deliberately created that perception because, rather than actually arguing point by point, he would spout off a concatenation of 50 ideas which remained unproven and which he took for granted, and repeatedly engaged in mockery and derision while doing it, and then if Weiss couldn't respond to every one of them, he was seen to have "lost" the point.  It was smoke and mirrors.  I wrote about this same tactic before when the representatives from the Kolbe institute debated those atheists.  They employed the same tactic, just rattled off at high speed a concatenation of unproven and contested points and then claimed victory.  Each of the points would have required 30 minutes to do justice to and to make an adequate refutations, but by simply piling them all on, they gave the impression of winning the point simply by stating them.  It's a very dishonest sophistic debating tactic.

    If I had the time, I'd do the analysis by pointing it out piece by piece and exposing the tactic, but it's very obvious what he's doing.  I likened it on that other thread to the modern forum of "debate" in schools that caused me to walk away from college debate in disgust.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #92 on: August 05, 2022, 07:45:12 PM »
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  • I'm going to take a few months or years away from CathInfo. 

    Good.  Your Modernist garbage is not wanted here among actual Catholics.  And, no, I'm not referring to the fact that you believe the earth is a globe, but your overall attitude of derision against geocentrists or against anyone, really, who doesn't bow down before the idols of modern science, and your overall disdain for Sacred Scripture.  Begone.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #93 on: August 05, 2022, 07:51:17 PM »
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  • That one professor Robitaille who ripped Mr. Dave to shreds, while not a geocentrist or flat earther, has some very solid evidence for the sun being electrical in nature and not the huge fusion engine claimed by modern science.  Mr. Dave ripped him for his theories, and he proceeded to take him apart and expose the fact that Dave has no idea what's he's blustering about.

    As for Mr. Dave humiliating David Weiss, he deliberately created that perception because, rather than actually arguing point by point, he would spout off a concatenation of 50 ideas which remained unproven and which he took for granted, and repeatedly engaged in mockery and derision while doing it, and then if Weiss couldn't respond to every one of them, he was seen to have "lost" the point.  It was smoke and mirrors.  I wrote about this same tactic before when the representatives from the Kolbe institute debated those atheists.  They employed the same tactic, just rattled off at high speed a concatenation of unproven and contested points and then claimed victory.  Each of the points would have required 30 minutes to do justice to and to make an adequate refutations, but by simply piling them all on, they gave the impression of winning the point simply by stating them.  It's a very dishonest sophistic debating tactic.

    If I had the time, I'd do the analysis by pointing it out piece by piece and exposing the tactic, but it's very obvious what he's doing.  I likened it on that other thread to the modern forum of "debate" in schools that caused me to walk away from college debate in disgust.
    This video from the "What on Earth Happened?" Series really got me interested in the electric universe as the more plausible explanation rather than the Pythagoraean one we've been sold for 600 years.

    https://tv.gab.com/channel/yafer/view/what-on-earth-happened-part-x-602962980ad6f0deab1657e4
    "For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:" [2 Tim. 4:3]

    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    Offline Emile

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #94 on: August 05, 2022, 08:52:36 PM »
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  • .
    That was not a refutation at that time and is not a refutation now.
    I'm going to take a few months or years away from CathInfo. 

    Good luck finding the "gravity of the universe" and measuring it.
    Thank you for deigning to converse with us mere mortals, o exalted one. I will meditate upon thy profound wisdom till thou seest fit to grace us, who are but rabble and truly unworthy of thy presence.

    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer


    Offline Cera

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #95 on: August 06, 2022, 03:38:15 PM »
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  • A question that occurs to me: are you looking only at commercial flights?

    If so, a commercial airline has to have enough passengers to make the flight profitable. Are there enough people that travel from Johannesburg to Sao Paolo, for example, to make a direct flight viable? Or do they need to fly to a major hub, such as London, in order to have enough passengers to make it pay?
    For example: all the commercial flights from my local airport fly to a metro hub. There's a larger town that I drive to semi-regularly about 150 miles away. If I wanted to fly there via commercial airline , I would have to fly to the metro hub (~250 miles), then change planes to fly 160 miles to get to that town. It's simply the economic factors that determine that.

    Now if a person hired a charter to fly from Johannesburg to Sao Paulo, and was taken via London, that would be very compelling.
    If what you hypothesize about unfilled flights were true, wouldn't the airlines be more likely to stop off at another major city in either South America or South Africe?

    It seems odd that they would waste fuel (as Lad points out) by going so very far North to either London or Dubai (at least on a globe map.)

    On a flat earth map, it makes perfect sense.

    BTW, it takes a big hit to one's ego to break away from the MC progarmming and be considered an "oddball" for seeing the falsity of globe earth and going back to the simple Biblical explanation
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Emile

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #96 on: August 06, 2022, 04:46:25 PM »
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  • If what you hypothesize about unfilled flights were true, wouldn't the airlines be more likely to stop off at another major city in either South America or South Africa?
    No. The majority, by a large margin, of air travelers are US and northern European citizens, so I doubt that it would make sense to place a major air hub in South Africa or South America.

    Quote
    BTW, it takes a big hit to one's ego to break away from the MC programming and be considered an "oddball" for seeing the falsity of globe earth and going back to the simple Biblical explanation
    I've noticed that you make a habit of snide accusations when responding to others. Thank you for reminding me to pray for the grace to avoid falling into such a dishonourable and execrable practice.
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #97 on: August 06, 2022, 04:57:29 PM »
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  • If what you hypothesize about unfilled flights were true, wouldn't the airlines be more likely to stop off at another major city in either South America or South Africe?

    It seems odd that they would waste fuel (as Lad points out) by going so very far North to either London or Dubai (at least on a globe map.)

    On a flat earth map, it makes perfect sense.

    BTW, it takes a big hit to one's ego to break away from the MC progarmming and be considered an "oddball" for seeing the falsity of globe earth and going back to the simple Biblical explanation

    Yeah, I don't buy that those bizarre (on a globe) routes are driven by economics.  It would appear that JUST getting from there up to Europe is as long a distance as if you had just flown straight across over the Ocean.  So what would they be saving by flying to Europe first?  And there appears to be enough demand where they could mostly fill a flight non-stop across the Ocean.

    Just eyeballing it from this link here, the flight up to Europe from South Africa is longer than what the direct flight across the Ocean would be.
    https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-cpt-to-eze

    So let's say it's because they can only fill half a plane.  Why would you fly a half-filled plane up for a stop in Europe that's farther away than if you had just gone direct with the same half-filled plane all the way across the Ocean?  You'd have to have a scenario where you could maybe fill the plane to Europe with 10% people who wanted to go to South America, and 90% with people who wanted to go to Europe.  But then in Europe you could combine them with more people who want to go to South America  But I just can't buy that you could only fill a tiny proportion of people on a plane from South Africa to South America.  Sure, maybe if someone just wanted to go to Buenos Aires.  But if you combined all the people that wanted to go to South America even if once there they had to connect to a different city, it would certainly make economic sense for there to be a fair number of flights down there that just went directly across the Ocean.  I could see it where some go up to Europe.  But who the heck would want to get on a plane for over 30 hours for what should be closer to an 8-10 hour direct flight?

    Judging by the distances, it really should be like a 6-7 hour flight across the Ocean (it appears similar to travelling from the East Coast US to Europe.  Searching across all African designations to all in South America, I could only find one that shows it taking a weird dip route South toward Antarctica and making it list as a 14-hour trip, so double what I think it should be.


    Online Miser Peccator

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #98 on: August 06, 2022, 05:13:57 PM »
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  • If what you hypothesize about unfilled flights were true, wouldn't the airlines be more likely to stop off at another major city in either South America or South Africe?

    It seems odd that they would waste fuel (as Lad points out) by going so very far North to either London or Dubai (at least on a globe map.)

    On a flat earth map, it makes perfect sense.

    BTW, it takes a big hit to one's ego to break away from the MC progarmming and be considered an "oddball" for seeing the falsity of globe earth and going back to the simple Biblical explanation

    I understand why it's suspect and there may be something to it but it's not a good proof text really.

    Those connections actually wouldn't be wasteful to fuel.  Airlines have to fill seats to make money.  They have to pay for the rental or loan on the airplane as well as the fuel and make every flying minute count so they loath empty seats.  That's why they oversell flights.  

    So they focus only on routes that will be full all the time.

    It's why you might fly say from Chicago to Vegas to connect to a flight to Dallas.  It doesn't make sense to the passenger to "go so far out of the way"  but flights from Chicago to Dallas are not as in demand as Vegas flights.   

    Also, airlines don't have a full hub in every city, but in only a few cities.  A "hub" is where the flight crew is stationed and they don't have to pay for overnights for them so that costs less for them.  Plus the extended maintenance crews are only in the hubs so the planes need to frequent those cities according to regulations.

    On the other hand, the emergency landings which demonstrate how far off course planes go to reach destinations, such as the flight from southern Asia to Los Angeles landing in Alaska rather than Hawaii,  indicate a huge increase of fuel costs and those make no sense except on a Flat Earth.

    Also flights routinely going over the northern arctic would be a fuel waster.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #99 on: August 06, 2022, 05:24:46 PM »
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  • If you try Cape Town to Brazil on that flight link ... you can find dozens of regular flights, nearly all through Europe and some even through the Middle East.

    Here is the only one I could find that allegedly flies directly across the Ocean.

    from LAD to GRU

    So I go to click on that to book a flight for one adults, and it shows a ticket price of $4,000.

    Who the heck is going to spend $4,000 on that ticket?

    FEs have found an occasional flight that claims to violate FE model, and have booked them, and every single time they've gotten cancelled.

    If I saw a fare for $4,000 when I could book one through Europe for $1,000, guess which one I'm going to book.

    Although that one MIGHT be doable? ... if you look more at a "polar projection" type of map:


    Online Miser Peccator

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #100 on: August 06, 2022, 05:29:49 PM »
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  • If you try Cape Town to Brazil on that flight link ... you can find dozens of regular flights, nearly all through Europe and some even through the Middle East.

    Here is the only one I could find that allegedly flies directly across the Ocean.

    from LAD to GRU

    So I go to click on that to book a flight for one adults, and it shows a ticket price of $4,000.

    Who the heck is going to spend $4,000 on that ticket?

    FEs have found an occasional flight that claims to violate FE model, and have booked them, and every single time they've gotten cancelled.

    If I saw a fare for $4,000 when I could book one through Europe for $1,000, guess which one I'm going to book.

    Again, there may be something to that with regards to FE but there is also another explanation.

    Flights from anywhere to Vegas are extremely cheap.  Why?  Volume.  Supply and demand.

    Flights which are difficult to fill are very expensive and if they don't sell enough seats they may be cancelled or the airline will simply lose money on it.


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #101 on: August 06, 2022, 06:58:28 PM »
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  • If you try Cape Town to Brazil on that flight link ... you can find dozens of regular flights, nearly all through Europe and some even through the Middle East.

    Here is the only one I could find that allegedly flies directly across the Ocean.

    from LAD to GRU

    So I go to click on that to book a flight for one adults, and it shows a ticket price of $4,000.

    Who the heck is going to spend $4,000 on that ticket?

    FEs have found an occasional flight that claims to violate FE model, and have booked them, and every single time they've gotten cancelled.

    If I saw a fare for $4,000 when I could book one through Europe for $1,000, guess which one I'm going to book.

    Although that one MIGHT be doable? ... if you look more at a "polar projection" type of map:



    I think a reasonable explanation would be that it is certainly more profitable for the airline to fill seats. By flying through Europe or the Middle East the airline would be able to pick up more passengers. I doubt there is a huge interest in direct flights between Brazil and South Africa. It also stands to reason that $4000 would be an understandable price for some wealthy costumers who wanted a nonstop flight between the two places.  Incidentally, some friends of ours recently paid approximately $4000 for round trip tickets for travel from Australia to the USA via Europe!




    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Online Miser Peccator

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #102 on: August 06, 2022, 07:30:37 PM »
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  • I think a reasonable explanation would be that it is certainly more profitable for the airline to fill seats. By flying through Europe or the Middle East the airline would be able to pick up more passengers. I doubt there is a huge interest in direct flights between Brazil and South Africa. It also stands to reason that $4000 would be an understandable price for some wealthy costumers who wanted a nonstop flight between the two places.  Incidentally, some friends of ours recently paid approximately $4000 for round trip tickets for travel from Australia to the USA via Europe!







    I worked for the airlines in many different positions so I know this is how it works for a fact.  They don't care how far out of the way anybody has to go.  They only care about (excuse the vulgar talk but it's their mantra not mine)  "Butts in seats" and the bottom line which includes utilizing their main hubs and the bottom line.

    For the bottom line, in addition to what I already explained about the hubs vs small outposts, they have the large provisioning/commissaries for food & drink at the hub cities.  They stock the plane for outbound and return with minimal provisioning at the non hub cities.  So going through the hub cities regularly is essential.


    Now anybody who has traveled internationally has had the fun opportunity to look out their window and see the northern arctic, Alaska and Greenland.  :)
    Why??????

    For instance, look at the map above and draw a line from Los Angeles to Paris.  Would you fly over the arctic or Greenland?  No.  Yet that is how it goes.  

    Fly from Los Angeles to Southern Asia and you go over Alaska.

    If you haven't had the opportunity for one of these flights, emergency landings prove the routes:
    2min55sec


    This guy is Asian and from Brazil so he has a strange accent but he also worked for the airline and is very familiar with the bizarre flightroutes.  Emergency landings are the real eye openers:

    1hour 16min



    These flight routes going over the northern arctic do not put "butts in seats". 

    They would definitely waste fuel on a globe model. 

    They would SAVE FUEL on a flat earth model.






    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #103 on: August 06, 2022, 08:43:30 PM »
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  • Again, there may be something to that with regards to FE but there is also another explanation.

    Flights from anywhere to Vegas are extremely cheap.  Why?  Volume.  Supply and demand.

    Flights which are difficult to fill are very expensive and if they don't sell enough seats they may be cancelled or the airline will simply lose money on it.

    But perhaps if the flights would be priced reasonably, then they could fill the plane.  Heck, if I lived in South Africa and wanted to go to South America, I'd definitely try to fly up to Angola and then connect over there, thereby cutting 15-20 hours of my travel time ... if it were reasonably priced.  I would think there would be high demand if it were reasonably priced.  Let's say a normal ticket would be $1,000 (for a flight they expect to be nearly full), then they could make the same margin if the Angola flight were just a quarter full at $4,000.  So the price is a vicious circle that way.  Question is why there isn't enough demand for such a flight to be able to bring the price down to reasonable levels when the only other alternative I have found is to double your flight time by going through Europe.  Although maybe there's something we don't know about Angola or the airline, where perhaps there's a 10% chance of getting murdered in Angola ... or the pilots are incompetent.  Who knows?

    But I found it shocking that it's the ONLY flight I could find that allegedly crosses the Atlantic from South Africa to South America.  There are tons of flights to South America that fly through Europe.  That suggests that there's definitely a market for a decent number of direct flights across the Atlantic.  Heck if I were a billionaire, I would see that as a huge business opportunity to fill the gap.

    Online gladius_veritatis

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    Re: % Confidence in Earth's Shape
    « Reply #104 on: August 06, 2022, 10:08:25 PM »
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  • Anyone ever notice that M79 never says anything about FE/GE?  Kinda strange, no?
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."