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Offline cassini

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Re: Challenge for globe earthers
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2023, 04:20:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: AnthonyPadua on November 10, 2023, 08:50:28 PM
    The 'world' is spherical, not the earth. What were they referring to here?
    The World includes the Earth.
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #31 on: November 11, 2023, 04:43:40 AM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on November 11, 2023, 04:20:51 AM
    The World includes the Earth.
    Yes but also the firmament and the deep? This entire creation could be round.
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    Offline Thed0ctor

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #32 on: November 11, 2023, 09:18:35 AM »
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    • World in the quoted context seems to mean "universe" so the "entire cosmos" is the shape of a sphere. 
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #33 on: November 11, 2023, 11:37:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: Thed0ctor on November 11, 2023, 09:18:35 AM
    World in the quoted context seems to mean "universe" so the "entire cosmos" is the shape of a sphere.

    Yes, Thedoctor, it would seem it is. Given we see the universe spin around the Earth, common sense will deduct it is a sphere.

    In Dante's poem he writes of the heavens rotating in spheres. Andrew White wrote about Dante's  Divine Comedy as 'Encompassing it are successive transparent spheres, rotated by angels about the Earth, and each carrying one or more of the heavenly bodies with it: that nearest the Earth carrying the moon; the next, Mercury; the next, Venus; the next, the sun; the next three, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn; the eighth carrying the fixed stars. The ninth was the primum mobile, and enclosing all was the tenth heaven, the Empyrean. This was immovable, a boundary between creation and the great outer void; and here, in a light which no one can enter, the Triune God sat enthroned, the ‘music of the spheres’ rising to Him as they moved. In attendance upon the Divine Majesty, thus enthroned, are vast hosts of angels, who are divided into three hierarchies, one serving in the empyrean, one in the heavens between the empyrean and the Earth, and one on the Earth.' ‘Below the Earth is Hell. This is tenanted by the angels who rebelled under the lead of Lucifer, prince of the seraphim –the former favourite of the Trinity; but, of these rebellious angels, some still rove among the planetary spheres, and give trouble to the good angels; others pervade the atmosphere about the Earth, carrying lightning, storm, drought, and hail; others infest earthly society, tempting men to sin;

    St. Thomas (I, Q 68,a 4, ad l) here establishes two principles: (1) Earth is the centre of creation, and (2) there may be many heavenly bodies revolving along many pathways, thus producing many circuмferences around the Earth, and these may be referred to as “heavens.”’

    Nicolaus Copernicus marked a milestone in human history when his book: De revolutionibus orbium coelestium – On the revolutions of heavenly spheres, was published in 1543.
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #34 on: November 11, 2023, 12:50:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Thed0ctor on November 11, 2023, 09:18:35 AM
    World in the quoted context seems to mean "universe" so the "entire cosmos" is the shape of a sphere.

    The first spheres of astronomers were circles. When heliocentrism took over the spheres of the stars ceased. In 1921 Pope Benedict XV write an encyclical on Dante and his Divine Comedy. In it the Pope had to say:

    'If the progress of science showed later that that conception of the world rested on no sure foundation, that the spheres imagined by our ancestors did not exist, that nature, the number and course of the planets and stars, are not indeed as they were then thought to be,' and though this Earth on which we live may not be the centre of the universe as at one time was thought.....

    Interestingly, Benedict XV did not deny in his encyclical a geocentric universe (confirmed in 1616 as a Biblical revelation), he only addressed if it is not, leaving the possibility that it still could be.  

    But back to the geocentric spheres of geocentrism and Domenico Casssini. He found the orbits of the sun and planets are Cassinian ovals. In a geocentric universe the spheres of the sun and stars have to be the same. Thus all the spheres of heaven are Cassinian ovals.

    Now Cassinian ovals are connected with positive electromagnetic activity within positive electromagnetism. Einstein and physicists have been trying to find the theory of everything for over 100 years. But because Cassini's find is geocentric they have no interest in it.

    But more than that. A friend did a bit of theological mathematics with the orbits of the spheres. First the geometry of the Triune God Himself as represented by a perfect triangle of equal sides or units.



    From this basis he then constructed a Cassinian curve and a Keplerian curve. The following illustrates the mathematical differences found.



    Reading the results in mathematical ‘theological’ terms, we find the Cassinian oval of the Triune God with its constant product of ONE produces a major axis with a maximum of 1.618033988 and a minimum of .618033988 which also happens to be the ratio of Phi, called the ‘Perfect’ or the ‘Divine Proportions.’ On the other hand, the hermetic Keplerian, Newtonian ellipse; with its constant sum of THREE, produces no such divine proportions in its diameter line.

     Around the year 1200AD, a mathematician from Pisa named Leonardo Bonacci [1170-1250] discovered a sequence of numbers that created a fascinating pattern. The sequence begins with the number 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34 and continues indefinitely by adding the previous two numbers to get the next number. A rectangle of the length and width of any two of these numbers forms what is known as the golden rectangle. These can be broken down into squares based on this sequence, we begin to see Fibonacci’s spiral. Phi is now known to be frequently evident or expressed in many natural things. For example, by varying the angle between the adjacent radii (their relative lengths conforming to the Phi proportion) a number of natural spirals are produced such as found in spiral galaxies, the human ear, starfish, snails, shellfish, leaf-shapes, flower petals, daisies, cauliflowers, broccoli, sunflowers, pineapple fruitlets, pine cones, curved waves, buds on trees, etc. The measurement from the navel to the floor and the top of the head to the navel is the golden ratio. Fauna bodies exhibit similar tendencies, including dolphins (the eye, fins and tail all fall at Golden Sections), starfish, sand dollars, sea urchins, ants, honey bees, etc  


          Phi as found in leaves     Phi as found in snails and shellfish

    Now isn't that interesting. A relationship between the heavenly spheres and the leaves on trees and even a snail.
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    Offline cassini

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #35 on: November 15, 2023, 01:56:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 10, 2023, 05:35:47 AM
    Very sad, cassini.  You are constantly promoting the notion that heliocentrism is heretical because it contradicts the meaning of Sacred Scripture as unanimously interpreted by the Church Fathers.  Well, the Church Fathers were unanimous that the firmament was a physical structure that kept physical waters from inundating the earth, and not a metaphor for the air and "clouds".

    You have to at least try to come up with something along the lines of what Matthew held (which is what I held as well until I came to the realization that the earth is flat), a water canopy, in order to avoid heresy by your own criteria.

    Found this on a website Albert a doctor of the Church.

    St. Albert the Great was a remarkable scientist of his time, and some of his theories may have led to the exploration of America.
    St. Albert the Great was a well-known philosopher, theologian and scientist of the 13th century. The depth of his knowledge had a lasting influence in the Catholic Church as well as in the development of science.

    He wrote a variety of commentaries on scientific study, exploring the writings of Aristotle, but also giving his own opinions after conducting his own research.

    St. Albert observed the natural world and explained that “the aim of natural science is not simply to accept the statements [narrata] of others, but to investigate the causes that are at work in nature.“

    In his own observations, St. Albert further confirmed that the world that is spherical in shape, as opposed to a flat earth.

    An island to the West
    This led him to believe that there may exist an undiscovered land beyond the sea, in what is modern-day America. The Catholic Encyclopedia explains his theory.

    In Augusta Theodosia Drane’s excellent work on “Christian Schools and Scholars” (419 sqq.) there are some interesting remarks on “a few scientific views of Albert, which show how much he owed to his own sagacious observation of natural phenomena, and how far he was in advance of his age. . . .” In speaking of the British Isles, he alluded to the commonly received idea that another Island — Tile, or Thule — existed in the Western Ocean, uninhabitable by reason of its frightful clime, “but which”, he says, has perhaps not yet been visited by man.” Albert gives an elaborate demonstration of the sphericity of the earth; and it has been pointed out that his views on this subject led eventually to the discovery of America.

    Prior to St. Albert, there are stories of St. Brendan as well as the Vikings discovering America, but some in mainland Europe were unsure about what would happen sailing West.

    St. Albert’s theories laid a foundation for later scientists and adventurers who would eventually embark on explorations of the continent.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #36 on: November 15, 2023, 02:46:42 PM »
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    • I'm skeptical of any third-party claim that St. Albert held the earth to be spherical.  As we see, the NASA ball is regularly read into these works, due primarily the problem with interpreting "world" or "earth" as being the ground we walk on instead of also including the firmament.  Dr. Sungenis did this repeatedly.  If you had a direct citation form him, that might be better.

    Nor did that post have anything to do with what I was talking about, the physical firmament with waters above it rather than the shape of the earth.
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    Offline trad123

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #37 on: November 15, 2023, 03:24:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 15, 2023, 02:46:42 PM
    I'm skeptical of any third-party claim that St. Albert held the earth to be spherical.  As we see, the NASA ball is regularly read into these works, due primarily the problem with interpreting "world" or "earth" as being the ground we walk on instead of also including the firmament.  Dr. Sungenis did this repeatedly.  If you had a direct citation form him, that might be better.


    Collected works

    http://albertusmagnus.uwaterloo.ca/Downloading.html


    The work in question:

    Opera omnia, ed. Jammy (Lyon, 1651), volumen 2 (a, p.1-384: Physica; b, p.1-200: De caelo et mundo; c, p.1-72: De generatione et corruptione; d, p.1-209: Meteora; d, p.210-272: Mineralia)


    Link to the PDF:

    http://albertusmagnus.uwaterloo.ca/PDFs/Jammy-volumen%2002.pdf





    Liber II. Pysficorum. Tract. I.

    CAPVT VIII.

    De differentia mathematica & phyfica confiderationis


    Page 66


    Start with the bottom left paragraph that begins with Sicut autem fcientiae:


    Quote
    ficut est videre de hoc, quod terra est sphaerica




    English translation of these paragraphs:


    https://www.google.com/books/edition/Albertus_Magnus_and_the_Sciences/nnqHZr3Rh5IC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA96&printsec=frontcover


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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #38 on: November 15, 2023, 06:15:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on November 15, 2023, 03:24:03 PM

    Collected works

    http://albertusmagnus.uwaterloo.ca/Downloading.html


    The work in question:

    Opera omnia, ed. Jammy (Lyon, 1651), volumen 2 (a, p.1-384: Physica; b, p.1-200: De caelo et mundo; c, p.1-72: De generatione et corruptione; d, p.1-209: Meteora; d, p.210-272: Mineralia)


    Link to the PDF:

    http://albertusmagnus.uwaterloo.ca/PDFs/Jammy-volumen%2002.pdf





    Liber II. Pysficorum. Tract. I.

    CAPVT VIII.

    De differentia mathematica & phyfica confiderationis


    Page 66


    Start with the bottom left paragraph that begins with Sicut autem fcientiae:





    English translation of these paragraphs:


    https://www.google.com/books/edition/Albertus_Magnus_and_the_Sciences/nnqHZr3Rh5IC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA96&printsec=frontcover


    Thanks for the link. Are you in agreement then that Saint Albert did not hold the Earth to be flat?
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    Offline trad123

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #39 on: November 15, 2023, 06:22:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 10, 2023, 08:27:18 AM
    Perhaps you could explain how the "science of geodesy" accounts for the fact that the Alps have been photographed from 700 miles away when they should have been hidden under 85 miles of "curvature"


    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-earth-god-made-flat-earth-geocentrism/no-star-movement-during-flight-equals-flat-earth/msg904470/#msg904470
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    Offline Capic

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #40 on: November 16, 2023, 12:45:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 10, 2023, 08:27:18 AM
    Perhaps you could explain how the "science of geodesy" accounts for the fact [?] that the Alps have been photographed from 700 miles away when they should have been hidden under 85 miles of "curvature"...

    Do you have a source for that?  According to the Guinness Book of World Records, the longest line of sight on earth that was ever photographed is 275 miles.  700 miles is nearly three times that distance.



    Quote
    https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/66661-longest-line-of-sight-on-earth

    Longest line of sight on earth photographed


    Who MARC BRET GUMÁ

    What 443 KILOMETRE(S)

    Where SPAIN (PIC DE FINESTRELLES)

    When16 JULY 2016


    The longest line of sight on earth photographed is 443 km (275 miles), achieved by Mark Bret Gumá (Spain), from Pic de Finestrelles, Spain, to Pic Gaspard, France, on 13 July 2016.

    The photograph was taken using a Panasonic Lumix FZ72, following lengthy preparations in selecting the optimal date and location. The image was captured when the sun was rising behind Tête de Chabrières and Puy de la Sèche, to help increase the visibility of this peaks on the horizon.
    The picture was taken from Pic de Finestrelles, in the Pyrenees mountains. Pic Gaspard, of the Alps, can be seen in the centre of the photo, 443 km away.

    There are very few places on earth where it is possible to extend the line of sight so far. Due to the curvature of earth, both the observer and object must be at sufficiently high altitudes for the object to be visible at long range. The higher an observer is, the further they may see before the point where the earth curves out of sight, otherwise known as the horizon. If the earth had a uniform radius with no mountains and valleys, an individual six feet in height would view the horizon to be 5 km away from them.



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    Offline Capic

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #41 on: November 16, 2023, 01:02:16 PM »
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    • I have a very simple way to prove that the Earth is flat. All anyone has to do is shoot a laser beam from the Statue of Liberty in New York harbor to Cape Town, South Africa, 7800 miles away.  That will surely put to silence all the Globe Eathers.  
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #42 on: November 16, 2023, 01:15:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Capic on November 16, 2023, 01:02:16 PM
    I have a very simple way to prove that the Earth is flat. All anyone has to do is shoot a laser beam from the Statue of Liberty in New York harbor to Cape Town, South Africa, 7800 miles away.  That will surely put to silence all the Globe Eathers. 

    Water vapor and air being not completely transparent would prevent that, sorry.
    Could we arrange for 0% humidity between those two points, as well as zero particles of pollution per billion? Probably not gonna happen, so...

    Why not just falsify the Globe model on a smaller scale, perhaps over a body of water, or a flat piece of earth? We know what the curvature should be for a 7926.38 mile in diameter "globe earth". If that can be proven false, then the whole paradigm is forfeit, because gravity depends on the size of the earth, etc. and their whole system would fall apart of any part of it were proven false. That's how a system works.

    Oh wait -- that's been done. MANY many times. Too many times to count. Too many times to dismiss. And easy for a layman to repeat too.

    The Globe side has nothing but "NASA!" which turns out to release only CGI doctored images. 10,000's of satellites and all the "footage" from them is horribly fake.

    Think about it. There should be WAY MORE candid footage of the earth. We should see satellites in them too. The clouds should move. There should never be Photoshop "clone stamp tool" evidence in them, OR the word "sex" clearly written in the clouds. It should look about the same from year to year, too. How much is a webcam in 2023 anyhow? Amateurs could afford it. Just one satellite needs to point one at earth. We have all kinds of live webcams on earth, don't we? Why isn't there ONE such camera in space pointed at the earth? BUSTED.

    Footage from the ISS (I've seen it) looks like CGI for some kind of commercial. There are 0 satellites visible in their 24 hour timelapse of Earth. Impossible, if it's supposed to be candid video footage. No, it's 100% fake CGI. They can do that, you know. Wake up. Watch the recent movie "Gravity". Do you think they built a movie set in low earth orbit for Sandra Bullock to film in? Give me a break. But MAN does that movie ever look real! Again: Wake up.
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    Offline Comrade

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #43 on: November 16, 2023, 03:20:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on November 16, 2023, 01:15:06 PM
    Water vapor and air being not completely transparent would prevent that, sorry.
    Could we arrange for 0% humidity between those two points, as well as zero particles of pollution per billion? Probably not gonna happen, so...

    Why not just falsify the Globe model on a smaller scale, perhaps over a body of water, or a flat piece of earth? We know what the curvature should be for a 7926.38 mile in diameter "globe earth". If that can be proven false, then the whole paradigm is forfeit, because gravity depends on the size of the earth, etc. and their whole system would fall apart of any part of it were proven false. That's how a system works.

    Oh wait -- that's been done. MANY many times. Too many times to count. Too many times to dismiss. And easy for a layman to repeat too.

    The Globe side has nothing but "NASA!" which turns out to release only CGI doctored images. 10,000's of satellites and all the "footage" from them is horribly fake.

    Think about it. There should be WAY MORE candid footage of the earth. We should see satellites in them too. The clouds should move. There should never be Photoshop "clone stamp tool" evidence in them, OR the word "sex" clearly written in the clouds. It should look about the same from year to year, too. How much is a webcam in 2023 anyhow? Amateurs could afford it. Just one satellite needs to point one at earth. We have all kinds of live webcams on earth, don't we? Why isn't there ONE such camera in space pointed at the earth? BUSTED.

    Footage from the ISS (I've seen it) looks like CGI for some kind of commercial. There are 0 satellites visible in their 24 hour timelapse of Earth. Impossible, if it's supposed to be candid video footage. No, it's 100% fake CGI. They can do that, you know. Wake up. Watch the recent movie "Gravity". Do you think they built a movie set in low earth orbit for Sandra Bullock to film in? Give me a break. But MAN does that movie ever look real! Again: Wake up.

    this is overlay of all the Starlink satelites. each one is between 35 to 100 ft wide. Just one system of satelites.

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    Offline Comrade

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    Re: Challenge for globe earthers
    « Reply #44 on: November 16, 2023, 03:25:23 PM »
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    • Apparently the Starlink satlites are 100 miles higher than the space station, but you would think you would stiil see them on the fringe during sunrise and sunset.
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