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Author Topic: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth  (Read 17608 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
« Reply #105 on: August 31, 2017, 03:19:36 PM »
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  • A picture proves nothing. Catholic teaching, scripture, and scientific empirical proof shows that the surface of large amounts of water do not curve, that curvature of earth has never been demonstrated or proven
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    It has never been a Catholic teaching that the earth is "flat." Urban legend does not qualify as Church teaching.
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    The use of your eyes, looking at the phases of the moon, and thus by empirical scientific observation, you always find the earth to be spherical. Always. The only way you can empirically resolve the phases of the moon is by realizing your point of observation must be by various points on the surface of a spherical earth.
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    That is what empirical means.
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    You like to throw "empirical" around as if it's a party favor but you have no idea what you're talking about.
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    Are you converting to Moslem? Moslems believe the earth is "flat," like Mohammed did.
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    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #106 on: August 31, 2017, 04:15:37 PM »
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  • If Muslims believe the earth is flat, that's great for them.

    Cultures all over the world believed the earth was flat including the Eygptians and Bablyonians.

    Trying to claim that the Jєωs were any different is ridiculous.


    Offline happenby

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #107 on: August 31, 2017, 05:23:29 PM »
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  • .
    It has never been a Catholic teaching that the earth is "flat." Urban legend does not qualify as Church teaching.
    .
    The use of your eyes, looking at the phases of the moon, and thus by empirical scientific observation, you always find the earth to be spherical. Always. The only way you can empirically resolve the phases of the moon is by realizing your point of observation must be by various points on the surface of a spherical earth.
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    That is what empirical means.
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    You like to throw "empirical" around as if it's a party favor but you have no idea what you're talking about.
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    Are you converting to Moslem? Moslems believe the earth is "flat," like Mohammed did.
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    Indeed, it is a fact the Church condemned the ball earth heliocentric theory and away held that there is a dome over the earth. You can't have a dome over a ball. And further, you cannot prove the Church, scripture or science has proof of global earth. Such a notion is fantasy impossible to reconcile with reality. The conclusion is drawn for fe, but cannot be so for a globe.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #108 on: August 31, 2017, 05:29:43 PM »
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  • .
    All you have to do is observe the phases of the moon to see the earth is a globe.
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    Simple.
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    But not for Moslems who believe that everything worth knowing is found in the Quran.
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    Are you a Moslem, pretending not to be one? That's got a name, too, for Moslems. 
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #109 on: August 31, 2017, 05:31:45 PM »
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  •  You can't have a dome over a ball.
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    You never learn, do you. I already instructed you from the Haydock notes of the Bible but you've already forgotten.
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    Offline kiwiboy

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #110 on: September 01, 2017, 01:22:05 PM »
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  • .
    You never learn, do you. I already instructed you from the Haydock notes of the Bible but you've already forgotten.
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    Try not to be so patronising. It is not doing your globalist agenda much good.
    Eclipses neither prove nor disprove the flat earth.

    "As for whether or not I work for NASA, I'm sorry, but I fail to understand what that could possibly have to do with anything" Neil Obstat, 08-03-2017

    Offline happenby

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #111 on: September 01, 2017, 03:33:12 PM »
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  • .
    You never learn, do you. I already instructed you from the Haydock notes of the Bible but you've already forgotten.
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    Show me a dome over a globe or you'll have to admit it's you that never learns.

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #112 on: September 02, 2017, 03:15:46 PM »
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  • Oh I see! That explains it all!
    Creation is just like a snow-globe, of course!
    And I though the powers of abstraction were a benefit to the rational mind, but perish the very idea..

    Sorry, you people are a real special kind of ______
    Yes, it sounds like you need to read Genesis.


    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #113 on: September 02, 2017, 03:29:04 PM »
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  •  On the contrary, if he [Vergilius] was in fact the future
    Archbishop of Salzburg, it is more natural to conclude that he succeeded in convincing his censors that by "other men" he did not understand a race of human beings not descended from Adam and redeemed by the Lord; for it is patent that this was the feature of his teaching which appeared to the Pope to be "perverse" and "contrary to the Lord".

    Your "natural conclusion" from reading that is strictly your OWN conclusion, Cassini.
    I don't get that from reading it at all. Seems pretty clear to me Vergilius was being censured for believing the earth to be a globe.

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #114 on: September 02, 2017, 03:31:41 PM »
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  • Just to announce that we have just published an introductory video to the flat earth.

    Flat Earth Trads are a group of resistance flat earthers.

    We hope you enjoy this video and that it answers your questions.

    Please forward to anyone interested and make comments.




    Here is the video:



    While I am a Catholic flat earther, I do not believe every thing in this video. I do not believe astronots are "hypnotized." Freemason, yes, hypnotized, no.
    I know someone in the current astronot class and he is definitely not hypnotized. Whether or not he ever makes it to "space" remains to be seen.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #115 on: September 02, 2017, 04:33:01 PM »
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  • Show me a dome over a globe or you'll have to admit it's you that never learns.
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    Jumping topic again?
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    Why am I surprised?
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    The Scripture referred to says nothing about "a dome" but it tells you what "a firmament" means.
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    Will you learn or will you not learn? That's up to you, as usual. Or you can jump topic, again, as usual, like a Protestant.
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    Offline happenby

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #116 on: September 02, 2017, 06:13:26 PM »
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  • .
    Jumping topic again?
    .
    Why am I surprised?
    .
    The Scripture referred to says nothing about "a dome" but it tells you what "a firmament" means.
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    Will you learn or will you not learn? That's up to you, as usual. Or you can jump topic, again, as usual, like a Protestant.
    .
    Scripture doesn't use the word dome, but the use of the word is common, as is "roof" and the descriptions of the firmament are consistent as writings of Church Fathers show here:

    Origen called the firmament “without doubt firm and solid” (First Homily on Genesis, FC 71). Ambrose, commenting on Genesis 1:6, said, “the specific solidity of this exterior firmament is meant” (Hexameron, FC 42.60). And Saint Augustine said the word firmament was used “to indicate not that it is motionless but that it is solid and that it constitutes an impassible boundary between the waters above and the waters below” (The Literal Meaning of Genesis, ACW 41.1.61).  

    Lactantius referred to the ideas of those studying astronomy as "bad and senseless," and opposed the doctrine of the earth's sphericity both from Scripture and reason. St. John Chrysostom also exerted his influence against this scientific belief; and Ephrem Syrus, the greatest man of the old Syrian Church, widely known as the "lute of the Holy Ghost," opposed it no less earnestly.

    But the strictly Biblical men of science, such eminent fathers and bishops as Theophilus of Antioch in the second century, Clement of Alexandria in the third, and others in centuries following, were not content with merely opposing what they stigmatized as an old heathen theory; they drew from their Bibles a new Christian theory, to which one church authority added one idea and another another, until it was fully developed. Taking the survival of various early traditions, given in the seventh verse of the first chapter of Genesis, they dwelt on the scriptural declaration that the earth was, at creation, arched over with a solid vault, "a firmament," and to this they added the passage from Isaiah in which it is declared that the heavens are stretched out "like a curtain," and again "like a tent to dwell in." The universe, then, is like a house: the earth is its ground floor, the firmament its ceiling, under which the Almighty hangs out the sun to rule the day, and the moon and stars to rule the night. This ceiling is also the floor of the apartment above, and in this is a cistern, shaped, as one of the authorities says, "like a bathing-tank," and containing "the waters which are above the firmament."

    These waters are let down upon the earth by the Almighty and his angels through the "windows of heaven." As to the movement of the sun, there was a citation of various passages in Genesis, mixed with metaphysics in various proportions, and this was thought to give ample proofs from the Bible that the earth could not be a sphere.[1]
    For Eusebius, see the Prcep. Ev., xv, 61. For Basil, see the Hexameron, Horn, ix, cited in Peschel, Erdkunde, p. 96, note. For Lactantius, see his Inst. Div., lib. iii, cap. 3; also, citations in Whewell, Hist. Induct. Sciences, London, 185*7, vol. i, p. 194, and in St. Martin, Histoire de la Geographie, pp. 216, 217. For the views of St. John Chrysostom Eph. Syrus, and other great churchmen, see Kretschmer as above, chap. i.

    The scholars of the Ethiopian Church as well as the Syrian (Thomist) Churches of southern India all highly respect 'The Christian Topography' of Cosmas Indicoplustes and consider the book an accurate historical docuмent which is vital to the history of the Church in those countries  at the time when Cosmas wrote at the beginning of the Middle Ages 

     A massive and exhaustively informative book on Saint Thomas the Apostle and the exhaustive history and heritage (and archaeology, relics, ancient churches, et cetera) of all the Thomistic churches in southern India of all denominations which is published by the Roman Catholic church there is entitled the 'Thomapedia.'  The Thomapedia does not fail to make prominent mention of Cosmas Indicopleustes for the vital historical information he provides of Christians in India during the early Middle Ages. 

    Western scholars familiar with Cosmas Indicopleustes praise him for the accurate and invaluable historical information contained in the 'Christian Topography.'  He is widely reckoned as the chief source of information on travel in the Indian Ocean and specifically Ethiopia and southern India at the beginning of the Middle Ages.
    Virtually any Ethiopian book covering the country's Christian history with significant information on the early medieval period also mentions Cosmas Indicopleustes as the most authoritative non-Ethiopian writer to describe Ethiopia at that time.   

      "...Cosmas Indicopleustes, travelled in this region and wrote his 'Christian Topography,' expressing in an entire book the vision of the entire Cosmos as expressed in the Book of Genesis, and as a counterblast to the pagan Greek view of the universe as spherical;  he also presented Moses prefiguring Christ.  Thus Moses experiences a strong resurgence in this century not only as Lawgiver, the model of Justinian, but also and more relevantly as a Cosmographer.  What is even more relevant to the theme of this paper is that his (Moses's) conception of the universe as interpreted by Cosmas was also expressed in maps, some drawn by Cosmas himself and some by others whom Cosmas employed. 
     
    Cosmas Indicopleustes is that ancient Christian cartographer who drew up the oldest known Christian maps.  These and their successors depict Jerusalem as the Navel of the Earth, the literal centre of the Earth.  The city of Jerusalem is located at the geographical centre of the Earth.  The city lies at the crossroads of Sem (Asia), Ham (Africa), and Japheth (Europe).  Biblical, Christian, and Hebrew tradition unanimously state that Jerusalem is the Navel of the Earth and place the city at the geographical centre of the Cosmos.   Strictly speaking, the geographical centre of the Earth is marked by an Omophoron on the floor of the Katholikon of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.  

     The oldest acknowledged extant map of Jerusalem is a Byzantine mosaic Map of the Holy Land on the floor of the Katholikon of the sixth century Byzantine Church of Saint George in Madaba, Jordan.  This is the famous Madaba map of Jerusalem unearthed in the Year of the Lord 1884, but not made famous until the librarian of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem visited Madaba to assess the map in 1897 and recognized the significance of this OLDEST MAP OF JERUSALEM IN THE WORLD.  The centre of the Map depicts the city of Jerusalem with the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the middle of the city.  Consistent with the Flat Earth cosmography of the Church Fathers and Cosmas Indicopleustes, the eastern part of the map depicts the Four Rivers of Paradise which flow westward from the Garden of Eden into this world.  One can discern the rivers' names like Pyson which are labelled in the Mosaic.  The representation of the Four Rivers of Paradise in the Madaba Map is no different from their representation in the flat Earth world map of Cosmas Indicopleustes.    

    "Having learned, moreover, from Moses that the earth has been extended in length more than in breadth, we again admit this, knowing that the scriptures, which are truly divine, ought to be believed. But further, when God had produced the waters and angels and other things simultaneously with the earth and the highest heaven itself, he on the second day exposed to their vision this second heaven visible to our eyes, which, as if putting to use the creations of his own hands, he formed from the waters as his material. In appearance it is like the highest heaven, but not in figure, and it lies midway between that heaven and the earth; and God [130] having then stretched it out extended it throughout the whole space in the direction of its breadth, like an intermediate roof, and bound together the firmament with the highest heaven, separating and disparting the remainder of the waters, leaving some above the firmament, and others on the earth below the firmament, as the divine Moses explains to us, and so makes the one area or house two houses----an upper and a lower story."  
    From 'Christian Topography' 

    Lets see... Catholic teaching on the hard firmament/dome/roof and flat earth by Moses, Origen, St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, Eusebius, Clement of Alexandria, Theophilus of Antioch, Ephrem Syrus, Lactantius, Cosmas and St. Chrysostom in these paragraphs alone. This is a fraction of teachings on the literal interpretation of Genesis for the firmament which separates the upper waters from water on earth, and the flat earth against spherical earth. What traditional/ancient Father, saint or Catholic teaching do you have to prove earth is a sphere, Neil? 


    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #117 on: September 03, 2017, 11:39:53 AM »
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  • While I am a Catholic flat earther, I do not believe every thing in this video. I do not believe astronots are "hypnotized." Freemason, yes, hypnotized, no.
    I know someone in the current astronot class and he is definitely not hypnotized. Whether or not he ever makes it to "space" remains to be seen.
    Hey tradplorable,
    There is no reason why they can't be both masons and hypnotised. When you think about it, you are not going to let someone hypnotise you without trusting them.
    So they take them in (their brother mason), hypnotise them telling them it is for their nerves or some other excuse, right before the launch. Then off they go into "outer space". Thinking the whole time they are there when they never budge from the studio or the aircraft they are on.
    If you have ever seen people who are hypnotised they can be made do the stupidest things, and be made to have a selective memory of the events afterwards.

    Offline Tradplorable

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #118 on: September 03, 2017, 07:30:45 PM »
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  • Hey tradplorable,
    There is no reason why they can't be both masons and hypnotised. When you think about it, you are not going to let someone hypnotise you without trusting them.
    So they take them in (their brother mason), hypnotise them telling them it is for their nerves or some other excuse, right before the launch. Then off they go into "outer space". Thinking the whole time they are there when they never budge from the studio or the aircraft they are on.
    If you have ever seen people who are hypnotised they can be made do the stupidest things, and be made to have a selective memory of the events afterwards.
    Yes, I get what you are "suggesting" (pun, intended) I just don't agree.
    I think if one is trying to demonstrate the truth of the flat earth, one needs to stick to what can be proven. The subject of flat earth is in itself controversial enough to make it very easy for one to lose one's credibility without having to speculate about things that cannot be proven.
    Because I can prove that the astronots were not hypnotized and knew exactly what they were doing when they lied about going to the moon.
    I can SHOW that to anyone willing to watch:

    At the 2:45 mark.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Catholic intro video to Flat Earth
    « Reply #119 on: September 06, 2017, 02:37:34 PM »
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  • These 2 posts of cassini were well placed and appreciated:
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    Quote
    .
    Again I find defence of flat-earthism sinks to the ridiculous, resorting to any rejection tactic that you can think up. His [Cassini's] geocentrism was certainly Church teaching. There is no other Church teaching on the subject matter than that.

    Cassini was a devout Catholic astronomer and surveyor who was hated by the antichrist Voltaire for his discoveries that falsified Newton's heliocentrism.

    He was an astronomer and surveyor. In 1657 he was asked by none other than Pope Alexander VII to resolve a dispute regarding the flow of the River Reno between Bologna and Ferrara that was causing flooding. For the next six years Domenico Cassini was occupied with similar work around the Papal States.

    As an astronomer he was the greatest that ever lived. His work and reputation, because it falsified heliocentric astronomy and physics has been hidden for centuries.
    .
    My my, the tactics of you global earthers are getting as near to blasphemy as you can get. Totally unable to reply to the anti-flat-earth science offered by me and others earlier, you simply ignore it and and push the ridiculous notion that flat-earthism is upheld by the Catholic faith. It is not and to say so brings the Catholic faith into dispute.

    "It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are." --- St Augustine.

    There are many readers of this forum, I am sure, who, upon reading this flat-earthism, a position CONTRARY to the sciences and human reasoning, who must laugh at what some Catholics believe in, bring the faith down to the level of a idiotic belief. This is exactly what is happening since this flat-earthism arrived on this and other Catholic forums. Just read through a few of them and you can see the HARM it is having among Catholics.

    It is patently obvious you avoid answering the scientific arguments and the conspiracy theories you say is ongoing among thousands and thousands of people and institutions that are beyond belief. The idea that no aeroplane has ever flown over the 'edge' of your flat earth, which would have happened if it were true, is another joke. Next you will be saying aeroplanes are like rockets and satellites, fiction.

    Here above you are defending your right to post your position. Fair enough. But posting a position requires that you defend it against objections put up by those opposed to the assertions made in the opening post and those that follow. I posted serious scientific reasons why flat-earthism is not true science. For one that six-mile 'proof' that the earth is not curved is a joke as the curve can only be detected scientifically over a few thousand miles. Yet you simply ignore or dismiss the arguments hoping the 'Catholic faith' of your victims will suffice. Such an abuse of the Catholic faith in my eyes is a sin against that faith.
    Totally unable to reply to the anti-flat-earth science offered by me and others earlier, you simply ignore it and and push the ridiculous notion that flat-earthism is upheld by the Catholic faith. It is not and to say so brings the Catholic faith into dispute.
    .
    There are many readers of this forum, I am sure, who, upon reading this flat-earthism, a position CONTRARY to the sciences and human reasoning, who must laugh at what some Catholics believe in, bring the faith down to the level of a idiotic belief.
    .
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