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Author Topic: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse  (Read 7448 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2018, 12:26:33 PM »
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  • "Untold numbers of potential converts?"

    How many potential converts are going to convert to Resistance Traditional Catholicism? Is it really all that many? How many non-Catholics really convert to Catholicism though the Resistance? I think that the numbers would be very few.

    Flat-earthers here mainly speak to those who are already Catholic. And many Catholics flat-earthers (including me) support the Resistance. Do you?

    By untold I simply mean "unspecified" or "unknown" rather than "untold" in the sense of great masses.

    Yes, I know that many of you flat earthers are Resistance supporters as well.  And there was that one video someone put out that could be seen as implying that +Williamson is a flat earther.  That's what I'm talking about.  If people start to equate Resistance with flat earth, that could turn them off from coming around to support them.  [PS -- we've already discussed my view of the Resistance on other threads.  It's not relevant to this discussion, since the Resistance does not believe in flat earth; I think +Williamson dismissed it as crazy or something along those lines.]


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #16 on: February 18, 2018, 12:34:20 PM »
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  • By untold I simply mean "unspecified" or "unknown" rather than "untold" in the sense of great masses.

    Yes, I know that many of you flat earthers are Resistance supporters as well.  And there was that one video someone put out that could be seen as implying that +Williamson is a flat earther.  That's what I'm talking about.  If people start to equate Resistance with flat earth, that could turn them off from coming around to support them.  [PS -- we've already discussed my view of the Resistance on other threads.  It's not relevant to this discussion, since the Resistance does not believe in flat earth; I think +Williamson dismissed it as crazy or something along those lines.]

    If the numbers are really unspecified, then why make a big deal about it? The answer is that you may be embarrassed by it. If so, then you might want to stay away from the FE threads.

    We appeal to those that are Catholic, since this is a Catholic forum. The forum also supports the Resistance. We are allowed by the forum owner to discuss FE. 

    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #17 on: February 18, 2018, 01:12:20 PM »
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  • If the numbers are really unspecified, then why make a big deal about it? The answer is that you may be embarrassed by it. If so, then you might want to stay away from the FE threads.

    We appeal to those that are Catholic, since this is a Catholic forum. The forum also supports the Resistance. We are allowed by the forum owner to discuss FE.

    As per usual, you dodge the core question.  Is that a matter of faith or not?  Can someone who believes in globe earth be a good Catholic pleasing to God?

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #18 on: February 18, 2018, 01:18:14 PM »
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  • The forum also supports the Resistance. We are allowed by the forum owner to discuss FE.

    What does that have to do with anything?  Matthew doesn't agree with the position of FE and has relegated it to a sub-forum.  He also doesn't agree with SVism or with Feeneyism but also allows discussion of those things.  I'm not talking about what is ALLOWED to be discussed here vs. what's prudent to promote.  Once again it seems that you're trying to link FE with the Resistance.  "This forum supports the Resistance and allows discussion of FE."

    I'm also trying to distinguish between believing that the earth is flat vs. asserting it to be Church teaching.

    Do you believe that the Church teaches flat earth?

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #19 on: February 18, 2018, 01:34:46 PM »
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  • What does that have to do with anything?  Matthew doesn't agree with the position of FE and has relegated it to a sub-forum.  He also doesn't agree with SVism or with Feeneyism but also allows discussion of those things.  I'm not talking about what is ALLOWED to be discussed here vs. what's prudent to promote.  Once again it seems that you're trying to link FE with the Resistance.  "This forum supports the Resistance and allows discussion of FE."

    I'm also trying to distinguish between believing that the earth is flat vs. asserting it to be Church teaching.

    Do you believe that the Church teaches flat earth?
    You questioned whether not not we should promote FE based in the untold numbers of potential converts. How many potential converts are likely to convert through CI? I explained why that's not a real reason to not discuss or promote FE. This is a Catholic forum, not Catholic Answers where Protestants promote their errors. You may disagree if you like. You seem to have forgotten the post of mine that you initially responded to, and are going way off track. Do you have ADD?

    Matthew doesn't agree with FE, but he has said that he can't say for sure that the earth isn't flat. So he's not completely against FE. You misrepresent his position. Not surprising.
    I'm not going to respond to your question because you are just deflecting away from everything I'm trying to say, as usual. And you will of course accuse me of whatever, but that's okay.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #20 on: February 18, 2018, 03:26:06 PM »
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  • Blasphemy: the action or offence of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk

    Flat-earthism: that the Scriptures reveal a flat-earth and that it is the true Catholic meaning of Scripturer.

    Flat-earth blasphemy: This occurs by way of INFERING the churchmen, Fathers and popes since the founding of Christianity failed to protect the true meaning of Scripture, even when condemning the multitude of 'Pythagorean' heresies right up to the time of Copernicus, Bruno, Kepler, and Galileo.

     Having read a new book Pythagoras Bruno Galileo by Professor A.A. Martinez, now out of print, we now have the best book ever written on the 'Pythagorean' heresies and the Church's fight against them from the very beginning.

    It seems Pythagoras (570BC-495) left not a single written word behind him. That said, many Greek philosophers accredited to him a multitude of things. It is written that he invented heliocentrism, multy worlds, the earth is a star, moving bodies have souls etc, including that he was the first to insist the EARTH IS A SPHERE.

    From roughly 150AD to 430AD the early Church Fathers critised  and denounced many Pythagorean notions as false or heretical. A global earth was not among them. Tjhe Fathers  Hippolytus, Chrysosom, Jerome and Augustine formulated the core texts and judgements that were echoed much later by Catholic theologians, but a global earth was not among them. By then Pythagoras had been elivated to a living God just like Jesus. The number of heresies multuplied from this and it seems to me Lucifer had taken the role of Pythagoras. That is how serious the Devil was attacking the Church.
    It was Copernicus who started Pythagoreanism all over again. Bruno was the one who adopted many of his 'cosmic' heresies and was seven years before the Inquisition being questioned on every one of them. Four of the Inquisitors were involved in judgement against Galileo's heliocentrism that he attributed to Pythagoras.

    Throughout the 1700 years of the Church's anti-Pythagorean battle against the heresies attributed to Pythagoras, whether he invented them or not, not once WAS THE GLOBAL EARTH ONE OF THE CONDEMNED. Indeed there was never mentioned the notion that the Scriptures depict or insists on a FLAT-EARTH. That had to be because it did not exist ever as a fact of Scripture.

    But now we have a growing number of Catholics who are insisting the Scriptures do reveal a FLAT-EARTH, and calling any who disagree as bad Catholics to say the least, as anyone can check by reading their posts on this and other forums. This INFERS that all the Fathers and popes and theologians who never defended their FLAT-EARTH were FAILING IN THEIR CATHOLIC DUTY TO DEFEND THE TRUTHS OF SCRIPTURE.
    And that is why I sait it amounts to blasphemy or worse.
    The creation of this thread is blasphemous.

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #21 on: February 18, 2018, 03:34:12 PM »
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  • "Untold numbers of potential converts?" Really?

    How many potential converts are going to convert to Resistance Traditional Catholicism? Is it really all that many? How many non-Catholics really convert to Catholicism though the Resistance? I think that the numbers would be very few.

    Flat-earthers here mainly speak to those who are already Catholic. Perhaps you haven't noticed that most of the forum members here are Catholic. (This isn't the stupid Catholic Answers forum).

    And.... many Catholics flat-earthers (including me) support the Resistance. Do you?
    Homo/pedo priests repel untold numbers of potential converts. Full stop.
    Not flat earth. 
     

    Offline Truth is Eternal

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #22 on: February 18, 2018, 05:08:12 PM »
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  • :laugh1: :laugh2:
    The self professing globe earths are getting increasingly senile. :laugh1: :laugh2:
    "I Think it is Time Cathinfo Has a Public Profession of Belief." "Thank you for publicly affirming the necessity of believing, without innovations, all Infallibly Defined Dogmas of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church."


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #23 on: February 18, 2018, 07:56:41 PM »
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  • Homo/pedo priests repel untold numbers of potential converts. Full stop.
    Not flat earth.
     
    I got a thumbs down for that post.
    Come defend your position, idiot.
    You think Fr. Urritogoity, Roberts, Cordaro, Tetherow,  etc. are attracting converts?
    Or the wall-to-wall homos of the Novus Ordo?

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #24 on: February 18, 2018, 08:49:57 PM »
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  • Homo/pedo priests repel untold numbers of potential converts. Full stop.
    Not flat earth.
     

    They both are.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #25 on: February 18, 2018, 09:43:01 PM »
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  • "Untold numbers of potential converts?" Really?

    How many potential converts are going to convert to Resistance Traditional Catholicism? Is it really all that many? How many non-Catholics really convert to Catholicism though the Resistance? I think that the numbers would be very few.

    Flat-earthers here mainly speak to those who are already Catholic. Perhaps you haven't noticed that most of the forum members here are Catholic. (This isn't the stupid Catholic Answers forum).

    And.... many Catholics flat-earthers (including me) support the Resistance. Do you?
    .
    So THAT'S the reason inane and/or retarded flat-earthers scamper to this ghetto to spew their nonsense diatribe, because at the "stupid Catholic Answers forum" you've been informed to take a hike. 
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    Thanks for the info!
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #26 on: February 18, 2018, 09:45:03 PM »
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  • More like it's a menace to modern science and NASA teachings.
    .
    No, flat-earthism is a menace to right reason. Full stop.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #27 on: February 18, 2018, 09:51:09 PM »
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  • IF the flat-earthers are wrong, and the earth is indeed a globe, then yes indeed there's the risk of making religion look bad.  That is part of the meaning of Pope Leo XIII in PD and I think that there's a quote from St. Augustine along those lines.

    If I say that my religion teaches a flat earth, and it turns out to be false, and the earth is in fact a globe, then this makes that religion look bad and discredits the religion in the eyes of those outside of it.  It could become a stumbling block for those who might otherwise be inclined to convert.

    Now, let's say that the flat earthers are correct, and that the earth is indeed flat -- and as you know I remain undecided at this time about it -- EVEN THEN there's some risk.  It's just a fact that 99% of people out there think you're a nutjob if you think that the earth is flat.  In fact, in common parlance, the term flat-earther is actually used more broadly to connote a tinfoil-hat-wearing crazy.  So even IF they're right, I feel that they need to back down ... for the sake of PRUDENCE if nothing else ... from alleging that the Catholic Church teaches flat earth.  So, even if they happen to be correct, they have to be very careful here.

    Let me give you another example.  I happen to agree completely with Bishop Williamson's position on the h0Ɩ0cαųst.  But you know what, if I were in such a high profile position, I would NEVER talk about it publicly.  Why?  Because it could make someone who might otherwise to be inclined to listen to you from a theological standpoint (arguments vs. modernism and Vatican II) perhaps dismiss you out of hand as a nutjob and not listen to another word you might have to say.  So it's a question of PRUDENCE at the very least.  Is it vital to people's salvation to know the truth about the h0Ɩ0cαųst?  Of course not.  I agree with Bishop Williamson's views, but do NOT agree with him that he should talk about it publicly.  Similarly with flat earth.

    So, for the proponents of flat earth (and I do not use the term flat-earther pejoratively as many do but only because I'm lazy to type out "proponents of flat earth" each time), do you think that this truth as you see it is SO vital to people's salvation that you'd be willing to scare off untold numbers of potential converts to Traditional Catholicism by claiming that flat earth is CHURCH TEACHING?
    .
    Let me ask you a simple question.
    .
    If you were to find yourself being a first-hand eyewitness to a murder, and you got a good look at the murderer's face, and then when the case came up for trial after you had been out of the country for a while and had just returned, would you feel obliged to contact the prosecuting attorney to tell your story or would you rather contact the defense attorney first?
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #28 on: February 18, 2018, 10:01:05 PM »
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  • What does that have to do with anything?  Matthew doesn't agree with the position of FE and has relegated it to a sub-forum.  He also doesn't agree with SVism or with Feeneyism but also allows discussion of those things.  I'm not talking about what is ALLOWED to be discussed here vs. what's prudent to promote.  Once again it seems that you're trying to link FE with the Resistance.  "This forum supports the Resistance and allows discussion of FE."

    I'm also trying to distinguish between believing that the earth is flat vs. asserting it to be Church teaching.

    Do you believe that the Church teaches flat earth?
    .
    Curiously, I know of flat-earthers who are pro-Resistance (in the broadest sense) and also some who are sedevacantist. I even know one who is Novus Ordo. But most of them are Protestant or agnostic. I have yet to meet an honest flat-earther who is atheist. I do know of a malicious faker flat-earther who is atheist but tries to hide that fact so he can get along with other flat-earthers. He seems to enjoy stirring up controversy.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #29 on: February 18, 2018, 10:26:30 PM »
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  • Like others here, you seem to believe that advanced science proves that the earth is a globe, and that we should not be allowed to say that science and Scripture indicate that the earth is flat, or we're probably guilty of blasphemy. Blasphemy against what? Modern science?
    .
    Perhaps you didn't finish reading cassini's post. He has already addressed this point:
    .
    But now we have a growing number of Catholics who are insisting the Scriptures do reveal a FLAT-EARTH, and calling any who disagree ... bad Catholics to say the least (as anyone can check by reading their posts on this and other forums). This [implies] that all the Fathers and popes and theologians who never defended [this] FLAT-EARTH were FAILING IN THEIR CATHOLIC DUTY TO DEFEND THE TRUTHS OF SCRIPTURE. And that is why I say it amounts to blasphemy or worse.
    .
    Therefore, if he were to reply to your question, cassini could well ask you the following question (if he were as little worried as I am about appearing too blunt!).
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    Question for Meg (from me, acting in cassini's place):

    Do you, Meg, insist that Scripture does reveal a flat-earth, and do you subsequently imply that any Catholic who disagrees with you is therefore a bad Catholic?
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