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Author Topic: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse  (Read 7446 times)

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Offline Truth is Eternal

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Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2018, 10:47:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on February 18, 2018, 10:26:30 PM
    .
    Perhaps you didn't finish reading cassini's post. He has already addressed this point:
    .
    But now we have a growing number of Catholics who are insisting the Scriptures do reveal a FLAT-EARTH, and calling any who disagree ... bad Catholics to say the least (as anyone can check by reading their posts on this and other forums). This [implies] that all the Fathers and popes and theologians who never defended [this] FLAT-EARTH were FAILING IN THEIR CATHOLIC DUTY TO DEFEND THE TRUTHS OF SCRIPTURE. And that is why I say it amounts to blasphemy or worse.
    .
    Therefore, if he were to reply to your question, cassini could well ask you the following question (if he were as little worried as I am about appearing too blunt!).
    .
    Question for Meg (from me, acting in cassini's place):

    Do you, Meg, insist that Scripture does reveal a flat-earth, and do you subsequently imply that any Catholic who disagrees with you is therefore a bad Catholic?
    .
    :laugh2:
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #31 on: February 19, 2018, 12:37:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on February 18, 2018, 10:26:30 PM
    Do you, Meg, insist that Scripture does reveal a flat-earth, and do you subsequently imply that any Catholic who disagrees with you is therefore a bad Catholic?
    .

    I fail to see how your question is related to the rediculous accusation that flat-earthers may be blasphemous. 
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    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline hismajesty

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #32 on: February 19, 2018, 04:44:58 AM »
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    • This whole thread is absolute nonsense.

    The globe is an error, theologically and materially.

    Globers if anything are the blasphemers.

    flat earthers do not need to go on the defensive.

    Do some penance for lent globers, starting with the practice of humility.
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    "....I am at a loss what to say respecting those who, when they have once erred, consistently persevere in their folly, and defend one vain thing by another" - Church Father Lactentius on the globe earth

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #33 on: February 19, 2018, 07:49:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on February 19, 2018, 12:37:53 AM
    Do you, Meg, insist that Scripture does reveal a flat-earth, and do you subsequently imply that any Catholic who disagrees with you is therefore a bad Catholic?

    I fail to see how your question is related to the rediculous accusation that flat-earthers may be blasphemous.

    The skill with which our flat-earth friends are now avoiding their previous assertions that the Scriptures reveal a flat-earth shows me this thread has been successful in putting a stop to the idea that Catholics are obliged to believe the earth is flat as an item of faith if it is indeed revealed in Scripture.

    That is all I intended to achieve. I have no problem with any believing or considering the earth is not a globe like every other cosmic body known to man except bits of rocks out there. Admittedly there is a lot of relativity in God's geocentric universe and a lot can be used to support a flat earth. For me the science of geodesy has confirmed the earth is a sphere. Further are the outer space photos and images that clearly show a curved Earth, even a spherical earth from afar. To deny these images is like saying all those rockets we see heading from space are frauds, and that NASA has hundreds of engineers permanently employed in one of the greatest cօռspιʀαcιҽs ever undertaken all to hide the fact that the earth is flat. What really fascinates me is how does NASA know the earth is flat and that it had to be hidden?

    Inherent in a global earth is the 'miracle' of gravity, for that is something created by God. This means that everyone living on Earth has the ground below his or her feet and the sky above. That defies human capacity to understand. It also accounts for the fact that bits of the moon or planets do not fall off them. The size of the Earth accommodates this creation, it is so big in comparison to man that all appears level at all times on the larger scale to man on it.

    Heaven is above, and if anyone is looking for its physical place then it is all outside the created universe. St Thomas said hell is the furthest place from heaven which is in the centre of the Earth. That theological belief makes a lot of sense.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #34 on: February 19, 2018, 08:09:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on February 18, 2018, 10:26:30 PM
    Do you, Meg, insist that Scripture does reveal a flat-earth, and do you subsequently imply that any Catholic who disagrees with you is therefore a bad Catholic?

    I asked basically the same question earlier, but she refused to answer it ... going on instead about how this is a Resistance forum and how Matthew tolerates discussion of FE here.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #35 on: February 19, 2018, 08:13:25 AM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on February 19, 2018, 07:57:26 AM
    Dogmatic Flatearthists are the blasphemers.

    Dogmatic Flatearthists will always be on the defensive.

    Wow...this type of arguing is easy!!!!




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    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #36 on: February 19, 2018, 09:24:30 AM »
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    • AES :

    Yesterday our resistance priest prayed for the
    "Restoration of the faith"

    And the

    "Restoration of the True Mass"

    Just sayin...
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    Offline hismajesty

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #37 on: February 19, 2018, 09:45:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 19, 2018, 08:09:04 AM
    I asked basically the same question earlier, but she refused to answer it ... going on instead about how this is a Resistance forum and how Matthew tolerates discussion of FE here.

    ultimately if someone rejects the truth after having investigated it, they cannot be considered a good catholic.

    Meg is being a little too nice on you folks
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #38 on: February 19, 2018, 10:18:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on February 19, 2018, 07:49:11 AM
    The skill with which our flat-earth friends are now avoiding their previous assertions that the Scriptures reveal a flat-earth shows me this thread has been successful in putting a stop to the idea that Catholics are obliged to believe the earth is flat as an item of faith if it is indeed revealed in Scripture.

    That is all I intended to achieve. I have no problem with any believing or considering the earth is not a globe like every other cosmic body known to man except bits of rocks out there. Admittedly there is a lot of relativity in God's geocentric universe and a lot can be used to support a flat earth. For me the science of geodesy has confirmed the earth is a sphere. Further are the outer space photos and images that clearly show a curved Earth, even a spherical earth from afar. To deny these images is like saying all those rockets we see heading from space are frauds, and that NASA has hundreds of engineers permanently employed in one of the greatest cօռspιʀαcιҽs ever undertaken all to hide the fact that the earth is flat. What really fascinates me is how does NASA know the earth is flat and that it had to be hidden?

    Inherent in a global earth is the 'miracle' of gravity, for that is something created by God. This means that everyone living on Earth has the ground below his or her feet and the sky above. That defies human capacity to understand. It also accounts for the fact that bits of the moon or planets do not fall off them. The size of the Earth accommodates this creation, it is so big in comparison to man that all appears level at all times on the larger scale to man on it.

    Heaven is above, and if anyone is looking for its physical place then it is all outside the created universe. St Thomas said hell is the furthest place from heaven which is in the centre of the Earth. That theological belief makes a lot of sense.

    I still cannot make any sense of why you believe that flat earthers are probably guilty of blasphemy. 
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    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #39 on: February 19, 2018, 10:35:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: cassini on February 19, 2018, 07:49:11 AM
    Heaven is above, and if anyone is looking for its physical place then it is all outside the created universe. St Thomas said hell is the furthest place from heaven which is in the centre of the Earth. That theological belief makes a lot of sense.

    We aren't required to believe that hell is in the center of the (globe) earth. Did St. Thomas state specifically that Hell in in the center of a globe earth? If not, then you are misrepresenting him. If St. Thomas believed this, then he was wrong. But then he may have relied too heavily on the views of that wierdo Albertus Magnus.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #40 on: February 19, 2018, 10:47:38 AM »
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    • Quote from: hismajesty on February 19, 2018, 09:45:54 AM
    ultimately if someone rejects the truth after having investigated it, they cannot be considered a good catholic.

    Meg is being a little too nice on you folks

    Yes, but it's possible for someone to investigate an issue thoroughly and yet come away unconvinced and unpersuaded.  There are many thorny issues that can have persuasive and legitimate arguments on both sides of it.  Some of these theological debates have raged on for centuries.

    This sounds like the "Dimond" position ... that is someone is not "convinced" by THEIR arguments, then they're obviously of "bad will".  Well, some of their arguments are not logically sound ... even if some others are.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #41 on: February 19, 2018, 10:51:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on February 19, 2018, 10:35:55 AM
    We aren't required to believe that hell is in the center of the (globe) earth. Did St. Thomas state specifically that Hell in in the center of a globe earth? If not, then you are misrepresenting him. If St. Thomas believed this, then he was wrong. But then he may have relied too heavily on the views of that wierdo Albertus Magnus.

    How do you know he was wrong?

    You're kidding me, right?  You're denouncing a canonized saint as a "wierdo" [sic ... since you can't even spell it correctly]?

    You appear to be making the OP's case for him now.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #42 on: February 19, 2018, 10:53:53 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 19, 2018, 10:51:27 AM
    How do you know he was wrong?

    You're kidding me, right?  You're denouncing a canonized saint as a "wierdo" [sic ... since you can't even spell it correctly]?

    You appear to be making the OP's case for him now.

    You probably believe that JP2 is a saint too.

    He was wrong because the earth is not a globe. 

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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #43 on: February 19, 2018, 10:58:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on February 19, 2018, 10:53:53 AM
    You probably believe that JP2 is a saint too.

    So what if I spell the name wrong.

    Now you're quickly sliding into heresy, Meg.

    St. Albert the Great was canonized by Pius XI in 1931 and declared a Doctor of the Church.  And you have the audacity to put him on the same level as JP2.

    Oh, by the way, since you believe that these guys have been popes, indeed you must consider it infallibly true that JP2 is a saint.

    Meg, you are an absolute theological trainwreck.

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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Catholic flat-earthism probably blasphemous or worse
    « Reply #44 on: February 19, 2018, 11:01:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 19, 2018, 10:58:42 AM
    Now you're quickly sliding into heresy, Meg.

    St. Albert the Great was canonized by Pius XI in 1931 and declared a Doctor of the Church.  And you have the audacity to put him on the same level as JP2.

    Oh, by the way, since you believe that these guys have been popes, indeed you must consider it infallibly true that JP2 is a saint.

    Meg, you are an absolute theological trainwreck.

    That's why it's pointless to debate with you, Ladislaus.

    The Church does not teach that the earth is a globe.

    I don't believe that Albert is a saint. If you are going to get all emotional over that, go ahead. It won't be the first time. And I don't care about what you think of me. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29
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